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Announcement Rival Powered White Labels

Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions, Announcements, & Feedback' started by Casinomeister, Jul 16, 2012.

    Jul 16, 2012
  1. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    For the past couple of years they have remained in the Not Recommended section at Casinomeister. This was due to an alarming amount of player issues that these casinos were creating. Well, that was a couple of years ago and things seem to have changed. For the past several months, there have been relatively very few Rival complaints (concerning white labels) so I feel it's safe to say they shouldn't be in the not recommended section.

    So they have been removed from the NR section. Let's hope things remain as they are.
     
    3 people like this.
  2. Jul 16, 2012
  3. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Well... if a couple of Rivals don't pay up soon, (I have no idea who is/isn't 'white label') Max may be seeing more ..... I've never NOT been paid by any online casino and I don't intend to go down without a fight. :mad:
     
  4. Jul 16, 2012
  5. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    I don't think any of the White label's can take players from the USA, so if you have problems with a Rival Mousey, it's probably one of the others.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jul 16, 2012
  7. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    I've played at a Rival for the first time over the last few days.

    £200 in at Vegas Sky casino on a 150% match with a 20xD+B WR. (So a £500 bankroll with a £7500 WR.)

    Just down to the last £50 now and I will bust out (unless a miracle happens :D) but I'm going to be very close to meeting the WR.

    Overall impressions are as follows:

    1) The slots are pretty good, graphics and sound won't give MG any sleepless nights but they're certainly solid enough. They do have some genuinely interesting and innovative game designs though, with stuff like a true skill bonus round, a crazy golf bonus round, some nice 'maze game' bonus rounds and so on. Definitely a change of pace and I've enjoyed them.

    They do have some spicy high variance slots in there too which can kick out some solid wins.

    I didn't notice anything glaringly wrong or broken, although the help files aren't the best written documents I've ever set eyes on.

    2) The casino client and general functionality are fine, I've wagered the best part of £7500 at 50p per spin or less, and the client hasn't missed a beat. It's very rare the MG Viper client lasts that long without a few burps/hiccups/crashes!

    3) Autoplay is primitive and definitely needs work.

    4) RTP 'feels' fine, sorry I can't be any more scientific than that, but going off the numbers alone I've definitely had far bigger busts at MG casinos on WRs smaller than I took on at Vegas Sky, with similar bankrolls.

    Rival do list the RTP for each game in the help file but amazingly it's just specified as 'about 95' or 'about 93' which is quite alarming, and I do have my doubts about some of the numbers too. A basic 20 line video slot was listed as 'about 99' which seems unlikely and for the few hundred spins I put through it I didn't get any sort off 99% feeling off it. Didn't seem to be a high variance slot either.

    5) I played only slots so can't comment on any of the other games.

    6) To see how you're doing with meeting the WR you have to open a live support window (there is no such functionality built into the software). I did this on one occasion and got connected to an agent within about 30 seconds who was able to quickly and accurately answer my question. (I was tracking my wagering myself, I just wanted to see if the casino had the same number that I did ;) )

    7) If nothing else I feel like I've had very good playtime off this deposit, I've never threatened walking away in profit at any point (and indeed from about 65% through the WR it was pretty obvious that the trajectory was heading towards a bust out), but at the same time I haven't felt that absolute sense of violation I've endured so many times at MG casinos when low-rolling on a big WR.

    8) The one thing I haven't tested, of course, is actually making a withdrawal! Although given the runaround some accredited MG casinos have given me for relatively small withdrawals, if Vegas Sky paid me within 7 days and didn't demand documentation AND then a 'verification' phone call and then use that phone number to make an unsolicited marketing call, they'd be doing better than Red Flush did!

    9) I didn't hit any amazing wins, best win was 300x stake, had a couple around 250x stake, and a fair few n the 100-150x stake range. No mega-exciting wins though. Some of the slots certainly look capable of them, assuming the reels 'play fair' in terms of combining expanding wilds with jackpot symbols and suchlike.

    10) When choosing a Rival to play at, check out the bonus offers carefully, the terms are all laid out in a standard place in the client across all casinos. Some of the T&Cs are borderline insanity, often combined with WRs that are effectively impossible to meet. Vegas Sky seemed to offer decent bonuses with sensible T&Cs and reasonable WRs, which is why I went with them. Good SUB too.

    Overall, I can't see me choosing Rival for basic non-bonus play (that'll still be 32Red, 3Dice, Jackpot Party, or Pinnacle) - but I'll certainly be giving them another crack on the right bonus offer :)
     
    4 people like this.
  8. Jul 16, 2012
  9. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again

    Thanks for the review Chops me ol' mucker :D

    One thing I will say though......you really can't accurately "feel" a slot RTP. You can perhaps pin down the variance over the short term, but the RTP is another kettle of fish. I've often heard over the years members say "xyz slot is awful it pays nothing the RTP must be like 70%", only to post a huge screenie one day and tell everyone how great it is......if you catch my drift.

    The issue I have with Rival, and why I don't play there these days, is their corporate attitude towards players I.e. "talk to the hand". I also don't like the way that they white label and wash their hands when things go tits up, even though they basically "own" the operation. I also don't like how they churn out New slots with exactly the same free spin/bonus round setup just with different symbols. It's lazy and tells you a lot about where they're at and where they're going.
     
  10. Jul 16, 2012
  11. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Absolutely Nifty I can't disagree with that, I'm just going off around 16500 spins representing a session extended across several days, which isn't enough to make any sort of claims with regards to RTP - hence me being quite clear it was a 'feeling' :)

    My main point there was that I've had far worse experiences with MG slots on WRs over the years (and better too of course), so what I was trying to get at is that the Rival slots certainly didn't have any kind of 'absolute piss-take' air about them.

    This opinion may well change in time of course, but for a first long session, I didn't feel aggrieved about how the slots rolled for me.

    Thing is though Nifty, how is that really any different from Microgaming?

    Purple Lounge is the most obvious recent example of course, but there have been several over the years, be it casinos going under or games malfunctioning (most recently the dude who reported here at CM that an AWP didn't pay him a jackpot when it should have done, it was only thanks to 32Red that he actually got paid) - and Microgaming is never anywhere to be seen in an 'official' capacity.

    Then we had the affair where they BLATANTLY changed the Mega Moolah progressive behaviour, and then changed it back, and there was NEVER anything whatsoever official released by MG themselves.

    I've done my history reading here at CM, and time and time again it's been left to the good guys of MG casinos (32Red being the absolute shining example) to clear up the messes that quite frankly MG themselves should have been resolving.

    Honest question Nifty, if you wanted to get an answer to a question out of Microgaming, how would you go about that?

    And finally, you really can't knock Rival for chucking out 'lazy clones' of games, MG are as bad as it gets when it comes to that caper...... :)
     
  12. Jul 17, 2012
  13. Refilliates Casinos

    Refilliates Casinos Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Refilliates Brands Casino Manager
    Location:
    Rival Powered
    Hi ChopleyIOM,

    Thank you for a proper review and honest feedback. Your post has been sent to Rival as well as a link to this thread so that they know what customers are saying.

    Really appreciate the effort!

    D
     
  14. Jul 17, 2012
  15. Refilliates Casinos

    Refilliates Casinos Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Refilliates Brands Casino Manager
    Location:
    Rival Powered
    Thank you Nifty,

    We have have sent your feedback to Rival now. As soon as we hear back, we will share here.

    Regards,
    D
     
  16. Jul 17, 2012
  17. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Right on Nifty. You cant feel an RTP on your own but you can feel the variance and while we are at it Chopley can try the 2 Scary Rich slots. If you hit the 3 wilds during bonus rounds you may feel the RTP is high but where no bonus rounds occur or no wilds are hit during bonus rounds you might be lucky to get a 50% RTP.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jul 17, 2012
  19. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Don't delay, PAB today! Assuming of course you've given them a reasonable time to get their business in order, generally speaking 1-2 weeks is plenty. ;)
     
  20. Jul 17, 2012
  21. The Viking

    The Viking Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    chef
    Location:
    Faroe Islands
    Could it be because there have been relatively very few Rival complaints, since they have been on the Not recommended list there have been relatively very few playing the white labels Rival, and therefore very few complains? :) lets hope not and they have just cleaned up there act :)


     
  22. Jul 17, 2012
  23. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    This is exactly my theory. That is why I still advise extreme caution when picking a Rival White Label casino to play at.

    As most people here know, I have been an avid fan of Rival since they first appeared in 2006; for the first few years everything was fine, but (and that's a BIG BUT), things started going seriously wrong in 2010. Rival casinos closed down (doing "runners") and some turned rogue.
    Some of the casinos on Bryan's White Label list are great IMHO and should never have been "not recommended" in the first place, some are OK, but some are still rogue.

    I'm with Nifty one this one too - I lay the blame for most of the problems squarely at Rival's door. With the "White Label" set up, Rival do most of the actual running of the casinos - the operators basically just set up their websites and determine the bonus offers. Therefore most of the security and payment delay issues over the last few years have been caused by the people at Rival, and not the individual casino's management.
    IMO they should have had a much firmer grip of what was going on and controlled everything much better; their "mis-management" has just caused their own brand a HUGE amount of damage - corporate suicide in my opinion!

    One thing which would be absolutely fabulous, would be if someone who has a means of contacting Rival direct could find out EXACTLY which of their casinos are White Labels, which of those are run by external operators, and which are actually still being 100% run by Rival themselves (because the original owners are no longer on the scene). I would dearly love to have this information - in fact if someone trustworthy could find out I would even make a large donation to their chosen charity in appreciation!

    KK
     
  24. Jul 17, 2012
  25. naththo

    naththo Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Currently working as a clerk casual part time for
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia.
    Hi,

    I used to play Rival casino but unfortunately some of their slot games are too hard to win, very low payout in normal game but higher payout in free game somehow is different which does not comply with the regular payout rate percentage. Thats what it put me off and I stopped playing ever since. Please improve those slots game and fine tune to an acceptable level of regular payout percentage during normal game (not in free game). Playtech I found seems to be reliable payout in most games depends on volatility from low to high but Playtech seems to stick to low to medium most of time which is interesting probably they try make it fair game for most. MGS you need to be careful cos some are high volatile like Lord of the Rings now rebranded as The Dark Knight you will lose more than win, also in Isis. It will eat up your money fast, play it wisely not to lose so much credit you have. In Intercasino most are fine but except some are high volatile so be careful. Also in 3Dice be careful too. You need to understand every customer need to have fair games. No one cares about high volatile game as it is not good value for $$$. Maybe few would risk their money for it especially true gambling but for some fussy people who doesn't want to lose will stick to low to medium volatile games.

    Thats just my opinion but some are true fact. :)

    Nathan.
     
  26. Jul 17, 2012
  27. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Thanks Max. If they don't reply favorably to the email I sent yesterday, will work on a PAB tonight when I get home from work.
     
  28. Jul 17, 2012
  29. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    The RTPs are very much geared towards the bonus/free spin rounds on Rival slots I agree, in fact on a couple of them (Diggin' Deep springs to mind) I really wouldn't be surprised if the three bonus rounds account for 75% of the entire RTP.

    Personally however, I think this is GOOD slot design, since the draw of a video slot is surely interactive bonus rounds that simply aren't possible on more traditional slots?

    By weighting the RTP so much towards bonus rounds Rival achieve two things:

    1) Bonus round hits are regular

    and

    2) They tend to pay at least moderately well.

    As long as the player understands how the slots are constructed (and TBH I worked out very early on that this appeared to be the 'Rival design') I don't see a problem with it.
     
  30. Jul 17, 2012
  31. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    Have to agree with Chopley`s feature return thesis, on average I think Rival slot bonus round returns are among the, if not, the best out there, especially the dual bonus slots and hitting the main feature in free spins, one of the latest slots (Digging Deep I think it`s called) is a great example of this, this slot also has another feature - Pick any box, I`m keeping a beady eye on some Rival casino`s here atm and will probably start playing at one of them a lot more in the not to distant future ;).
     
  32. Jul 17, 2012
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    How large;)
     
  34. Jul 17, 2012
  35. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Indeed, generally speaking the bonus rounds can be triggered within free spins, and whatever multiplier applied to the free spins, then applies to the bonus round.

    What I also like about the bonus rounds is that some of the slots have the capability to chuck in the odd big one, whereas with MG you often know for a fact that BONUS ROUND A WILL PAY 5-20X STAKE (which makes a lot of them really boring), with Rival not only are the ranges generally larger to start with (30X-50X stake is nothing at all unusual) they'll also sometimes lob in the odd 100X stake win or more too.

    In fact, I'm talking myself into another deposit at Vegas Sky here..... I'll take another look at Tropica, I did install their client and use the NDB bonus, but the WR on the deposit bonuses were too high for my tastes which is why I went with Vegas Sky in the end.

    Tropica however do have an active rep here at CM.
     
  36. Jul 19, 2012
  37. Refilliates Casinos

    Refilliates Casinos Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Refilliates Brands Casino Manager
    Location:
    Rival Powered
    If there is anything specific you would like to see in the help files, then please PM me your suggestions or email it to our support address. Management reads every mail, chat and forum, so your feedback does not go unnoticed.

    That is good to hear. Nothing worse that the software bombing out during a good session :thumbsup:

    As mentioned earlier this week, this thread was sent to Rival so they could see your feedback. I tested NETent's autoplay so that we have something to compare ourselves with and the only difference with theirs, is that they have "Stop when Free Spins are won". Rival agree that this is a nice feature. They advised that they have been working on a new Lobby for the casinos and will make changes to autoplay before rolling the lobby out.

    Rival have confirmed that the RTP shown is accurate and is taken from analysing billions of hands across all the brands. We asked them if it would possible to remove the word "About" and are waiting a decision.

    Counting your wagers and bets is no fun, so you shouldn't have to :D You can click the promotion in the cashier and you then scroll down to below the Terms and Conditions where a message will advise if wagering has been met or not.

    That is good feedback Chopley. We monitor all player feedback and experiences regarding the brand and we really want players to have fun. There is nothing worse than putting in your money and then having it sucked out of you within 5 minutes.

    Thank you very much for the effort you put in Chopley. We will use it to improve our product offering and ultimately, your gaming experience.

    All the best,
    Tropica Casino
     
  38. Jul 19, 2012
  39. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    That is not the only difference!

    Rival Autoplay has annoyed me so much since they first launched back in 2006, that I even started a thread with a poll about it!
    Please take a few minutes to read this: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...ge-their-autoplay-please-read-post-first.html

    If Rival management are now reading posts that is extremely welcome! :thumbsup:
    They couldn't have been reading them back in 2008... unless they were just reading them and ignoring them! :p

    I know some of my posts looked like I'm really criticising Rival (well, I was - but it was supposed to be CONSTRUCTIVE criticism); all I was trying to do was get them to sit up and take notice and actually change things that were annoying, wrong or glitches. I was (and still am) trying to help them!


    Well first off, RTP should not be measured by "analysing billions of hands across all the brands".
    It can be checked that way of course, but Theoretical RTP (T-RTP) should be calculated mathematically from the slot's mechanics; i.e. The number and distribution of the symbols on the reels along with the pay-table.

    I don't know how long you have been involved with Rival, but back in the early days they DID used to quote an exact T-RTP for each slot.
    e.g. These are some of the RTPs which were given by Rival (on the "help" pages) back in 2008:
    Atomic Age: 96.01%
    Cleopatra's Coins: 96.13%
    Dog Pound: 96.59%

    So can you ask Rival why they stopped giving exact figures?

    Also, please can you ask them why all their recent slots (released since early 2011) have got very low RTPs?
    (From 88% to 94%)


    Yes, you can check if you've finished or not, but that's not terribly helpful.
    What players really want to see is exactly how much wagering they have done and/or is left to do.

    Cheers!
    KK
     
    1 person likes this.

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