Casino Lobby

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Rogue or good casino? They have a sticky 100% bonus up to $500 (15x D+B) and they use Playtech software.
I've seen members of various forums post that 4 different softwares are used by this casino. It does not use Playtech, Futurebet, DGS, or other common software. It uses "Total E Soft," which seems to be distinct. From what I can tell, this software is only used by Casino Lobby and skins (such as Casino Millionaire).
 

liquuid_fusion

Meister Member
PABaccred
PABnorogue
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Nov 6, 2005
Location
UK
They have a deuces wild variation with a 109% payout, which cannot possibly be a fair game.
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
How do you even find them? I type in Casino Lobby in Google and don't see anything on the first page of results. I type in www.casinolobby.com in the address bar and get a Server Not Found.

And if they really do have a 109% paytable on Deuces Wild then you should stay FAR away from this place because obviously it's either rigged or they have no intention of paying when you win.

I don't understand why so many people stray from the good places and hunt for these no-name brands. Generic brands are fine for cereals and pain relievers ... but NOT for online casinos.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
They have a deuces wild variation with a 109% payout, which cannot possibly be a fair game.
And if they really do have a 109% paytable on Deuces Wild then you should stay FAR away from this place because obviously it's either rigged or they have no intention of paying when you win.

I don't understand why so many people stray from the good places and hunt for these no-name brands. Generic brands are fine for cereals and pain relievers ... but NOT for online casinos.
I know several players who have played at this casino and several affiliates who have promoted them. And I have yet to hear a single complaint about this casino, either with rigged software or non-payment of winnings. Why assume the casino is bad or the casino is rigged with no supporting data?
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
I know several players who have played at this casino and several affiliates who have promoted them. And I have yet to hear a single complaint about this casino, either with rigged software or non-payment of winnings. Why assume the casino is bad or the casino is rigged with no supporting data?
Did you happen to play them back when you were making your rounds (so to speak)? I'm curious if you have any experience with them (successful withdrawal(s), etc.)?

Either way - a 109% paytable seems more than a little suspicious wouldn't you agree? I haven't, however, verified it yet for myself.

I did just find their web site though - they are "licensed" in Costa Rica. :rolleyes:
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Did you happen to play them back when you were making your rounds (so to speak)? I'm curious if you have any experience with them (successful withdrawal(s), etc.)?

Either way - a 109% paytable seems more than a little suspicious wouldn't you agree? I haven't, however, verified it yet for myself.

I did just find their web site though - they are "licensed" in Costa Rica. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately my country is not allowed to play there for real money. I have played in fun mode, and did not note anything abnormal, aside from some software annoyances (loss of connection, having to turn off music every time I enter the home page).

I do find the paytable to be suspicious. However, the casino offers many video poker variations. And only two do not offer multi-hand play -- Deuces Wild and Joker Poker. These are same two that have a theoretical payout above 100% with optimal strategy. This makes me suspect there is indeed something special about these two games. While suspicious, I am not going to assume they are rigged with no players having reported issues there.
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
Unfortunately my country is not allowed to play there for real money. I have played in fun mode, and did not note anything abnormal, aside from some software annoyances (loss of connection, having to turn of music every time I enter the home page).

I do find the paytable to be suspicious. However, the casino offers many video poker variations. And only two do not offer multi-hand play -- Deuces Wild and Joker Poker. These are same two that have a theoretical payout above 100% with optimal strategy. This makes me suspect there is indeed something special about these two games. While suspicious, I am not going to assume they are rigged with no players having reported issues there.
I think we're in the same country :D
I just downloaded and played in free mode. Deuces Wild pays back 109.2685% and Joker Poker pays back 105.8615%.

How can any casino possibly stay in business with paytables like that - even on single hand?

The software is actually very nice. Somewhere in between Playtech and MG.
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
Okay, I analyzed their Video Poker paytables and there is something very strange going on here - it's not limited to just Deuces Wild and Joker Poker:

GAME .................. SINGLE HAND ................ MULTI-HAND

Aces and Faces .......... 99.2555% .................. 99.7597%
Aces and Eights ........ 101.9068% .................. 99.0926%
All Aces ............... 101.5269% .................. 99.9195%
All American Poker ...... 99.8648% .................. 99.3756%
Bonus Poker ............ 101.9755% .................. 99.1660%
Bonus Poker Deluxe ..... 101.7596% .................. 98.4928%
Deuces Wild ............ 109.2685% ....................... N/A
Double Bonus Poker ..... 102.2191% .................. 99.1065%
Great British Poker .... 109.4648% ................. 109.6033%
Jacks or Better ......... 99.5439% .................. 99.5439%
Joker Poker ............ 105.8615% ....................... N/A
Mega Bonus Poker ........ 94.2466% .................. 94.2466%


Aces and Faces has a higher payout in the multi-hand version because of the 5000-coin Royal Flush (it's only 4000 in the single-hand version).

The multi-hand version of Great British Poker pays 360 coins for a Straight Flush instead of the 300 coins that the single-hand version pays.

The single-hand version of Bonus Poker Deluxe appears to pay 32 coins for a Flush on a max bet, but actually pays 30 coins:

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Obviously the 32 was a typo.

The higher payout for a Straight Flush in the multi-hand version of Great British Poker is probably an error as well.

How many other "errors" are there?
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
This has GOT to be rigged. This is just not statistically possible.

I held a pair of Kings and didn't improve on ANY of the 50 hands? -

Old Attachment (Invalid)

And then on the next hand I was dealt 4 to a flush, and didn't get even ONE out of 50? I couldn't even pair the King or Queen? -

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Aka23 you are good with math - what are the odds of that?
 
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aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
This has GOT to be rigged. This is just not statistically possible.

I held a pair of Kings and didn't improve on ANY of the 50 hands? -

Aka23 you are good with math - what are the odds of that?

The chance of getting a 5th to a flush on any 1 hand is 9/48, so the chance not getting a flush in any of the 50 hands is (39/48)^50 = > 1 in 30,000. The chance of net getting a flush and not getting a queen or king to complete the high pair is (33/48)^50 = > 1 in 135 million.

The other calculation is more complicated. Given that these were sequential hands, the combined odds are near impossible. You convinced me that the software is likely rigged. I assume the above hands were done in practice mode. It is strange that I did not see any issues with 1-play deuces wild in practice mode. After having played for ~20 mins, I had made a good sized gain.
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
The chance of getting a 5th to a flush on any 1 hand is 9/48, so the chance not getting a flush in any of the 50 hands is (39/48)^50 = > 1 in 30,000. The chance of net getting a flush and not getting a queen or king to complete the high pair is (33/48)^50 = > 1 in 135 million.

The other calculation is more complicated. Given that these were sequential hands, the combined odds are near impossible. You convinced me that the software is likely rigged. I assume the above hands were done in practice mode. It is strange that I did not see any issues with 1-play deuces wild in practice mode After having played for ~20 mins, I had made a good sized gain.

I didn't notice anything funky in the single-hand deuces wild game either ... I too had doubled and nearly tripled what I started with after a few hands. But this multi-hand Great British Poker is way too unbelievable.

It could be slots/keno/bingo running behind the scenes, or it could also be just plain rigged. :D
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
I know there's no point in continuing to play here, even in free mode, but here's another one: Jacks or Better, I held the Jack of hearts. The result... nada! :D

Old Attachment (Invalid)

I've also noticed a lot of hands that "appear" normal, and a more-than-expected number of hands where I would win back exactly half my bet. So something is going on, and whatever it is certainly isn't 100% random.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
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Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
This has GOT to be rigged. This is just not statistically possible.

I held a pair of Kings and didn't improve on ANY of the 50 hands? -

And then on the next hand I was dealt 4 to a flush, and didn't get even ONE out of 50? I couldn't even pair the King or Queen? -

Aka23 you are good with math - what are the odds of that?
That is 100% definitely rigged. You don't need a mathematician to tell you that! :eek:

Looks like these games are just AWP - same as Wagerworks' Texas Shoot Out.

I wouldn't mind at all, if the casinos spelled out clearly that this is what you are playing and not a genuine game of random chance.

:mad:
 

AudiManinBoro

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Location
UK
I don't understand why so many people stray from the good places and hunt for these no-name brands. Generic brands are fine for cereals and pain relievers ... but NOT for online casinos.

Well in all fairness lets be a little objective here. Variety so they say is the spice of life and if no one is to ever trust anyone or anything new we would all get bored pretty quickly. I agree that one needs to be very careful but theirs no reason to automatically assume that every new casino that gets launched using in house software is fraudulent or untrustworthy. Innocent until proven guilty remember Howver having said that `I` wont be trying them pmsl :lolup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I came upon them at GoneGambling. They advertised for a month and then vanished. They were listed as "Futurebet", although the site claims "Total E-Soft".

Also, InterXgaming came on board, again listed as "Futurebet", but claiming "Total E-Soft" on the website.

Both brands then quit GG at the same time.

InterX then asked me for feedback, and they certainly got some:D
This extracted this confession from them:-

Our software provider is futurebet systems, and yes, they did have some sites that went bad. The good news is that they learnt a hard lesson from that experience and a new site has to go through a much more stringent process in order to get a license. InterXgaming is actually being looked at to bring them back into the good operators books by simply doing the right thing; we also take responsibility for all withdraws so we pay our players!

Hence "Total E-Soft" = "New Futurebet".

The differences seem to be down to Futurebet selling rights to other companies to tinker with the basic product, and thus a number of Futurebet variants now exist. Casino Lobby, despite being Total E-Soft, has differences in the software.

The analysis of the video poker is compelling evidence that this software is of the "rigged" persuasion, and this might be why they are so free with bonus offers.

Despite not having played since they quit GG, the balance of my accounts just keeps going up as they drop this & that bonus into it.

This analysis has convinced me that I don't want to be adding real money, as the other games may all just be rigged to 95% or so, regardless of the rules.

This reminds me of Lucky Chance casino, huge bonuses on EVERY deposit, fully cashable AND redeemed at a rate of 2.5% for BLACKJACK!!!!!
Despite this, after an early winning streak, I never managed to run Blackjack at the house edge of 0.4515% as calculated on the Wizardofodds BJ house edge calculator.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I came upon them at GoneGambling. They advertised for a month and then vanished. They were listed as "Futurebet", although the site claims "Total E-Soft".

Also, InterXgaming came on board, again listed as "Futurebet", but claiming "Total E-Soft" on the website.

Both brands then quit GG at the same time.

InterX then asked me for feedback, and they certainly got some:D
This extracted this confession from them:-



Hence "Total E-Soft" = "New Futurebet".

The differences seem to be down to Futurebet selling rights to other companies to tinker with the basic product, and thus a number of Futurebet variants now exist. Casino Lobby, despite being Total E-Soft, has differences in the software.

The analysis of the video poker is compelling evidence that this software is of the "rigged" persuasion, and this might be why they are so free with bonus offers.

Despite not having played since they quit GG, the balance of my accounts just keeps going up as they drop this & that bonus into it.

This analysis has convinced me that I don't want to be adding real money, as the other games may all just be rigged to 95% or so, regardless of the rules.

This reminds me of Lucky Chance casino, huge bonuses on EVERY deposit, fully cashable AND redeemed at a rate of 2.5% for BLACKJACK!!!!!
Despite this, after an early winning streak, I never managed to run Blackjack at the house edge of 0.4515% as calculated on the Wizardofodds BJ house edge calculator.


I agree - my information is also that there is a definite Total E-Soft + Futurebet commercial link.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
I came upon them at GoneGambling. They advertised for a month and then vanished. They were listed as "Futurebet", although the site claims "Total E-Soft".

Also, InterXgaming came on board, again listed as "Futurebet", but claiming "Total E-Soft" on the website.

Both brands then quit GG at the same time.

InterX then asked me for feedback, and they certainly got some:D
This extracted this confession from them:-



Hence "Total E-Soft" = "New Futurebet".

The differences seem to be down to Futurebet selling rights to other companies to tinker with the basic product, and thus a number of Futurebet variants now exist. Casino Lobby, despite being Total E-Soft, has differences in the software.
As I mentioned earlier, InterX is clearly Futurebet. The software looks like Futurebet; they use Futurebet support; and they have many other similarities with Futurebet. The software is listed as Futurebet on many sites, including mine and Online Casino City. I don't think InterX is making an effort to hide using Futurebet. However, InterX confessing to be Futurebet does not mean the Casino Lobby is also Futurebet.

The Casino Lobby software does not resemble Futurebet software. They have a different game list then Futurebet. Their games play and feel differently than Futurebet. Their games have a very different expected payout than Futurebet. They use different support channels than Futurebet. And their games call different servers than Futurebet. There are some softwares out there that look like Futurebet with some tweaks, like IGS. However, Total E Soft is not one of them.

My guess is GG made a mistake when they listed them as Futurebet, similar to the original poster making a mistake when he listed them as Playtech, or other posters elsewhere making a mistake when listing them as DGS.
 

littlebit

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Location
Pasadena, Texas
My guess is GG made a mistake when they listed them as Futurebet, similar to the original poster making a mistake when he listed them as Playtech, or other posters elsewhere making a mistake when listing them as DGS.[/QUOTE]

Good call, AKA23. According to their email to me, Casino Lobby did state their software as being TotalESoft--not FutureBet as we mistakenly stated on the Rating page at GoneGambling at the time.
 
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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
That's not Playtech. They are part of a white brand casinos group, Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

They have lots of players that use e-gold.

On their site, package 1 is:-

The software we use for our Casino 1 package is provided by Microgaming, through Roxy Palace:

Microgaming is the world leader in casino software, with over 200 games of the highest quality. Progressive Jackpots are individually over $1,000,000 and collectively are regularly over $3,000,000. We are always looking to provide our members with the very best tools in order for them to earn as much money as possible, and the player retention and repeat playing with the Microgaming software means that you are able to do just that!

The other packages are Casino Lobby software.

This has to be rogue!!! The only "provider" of Microgaming software is ..err... Microgaming. Roxy Palace are an OPERATOR, who licence the software. Also, package 1 is FREE, you keep 40% of the profits.

This has me thinking about those "Mint Las Vegas" spams that actually end up downloading genunie Microgaming Casinos, which INCLUDE Roxy Palace, but also Fortune Lounge and Ruby Fortune.

I would bet that "package 1" is nothing more than a "spamming kit".

This also reduces the credibility of this site to a level where it would seem that it's other "partner" Casino Lobby, are rogue by default unless proven otherwise. The evidence so far of those VP games only helps confirm the view they are rogue software. Given the confession that they were "Fururebet", I rather suspect this is futurebet under a different name, certainly Both CasinoLobby and InterX are both "Total E-Soft", and InterX admit in writing that FutureBet are their software suppliers.

It remains to be tested whether InterX offers these absurd paytables, and whether they too throw up these virtually impossible hands.
 
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