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Microgaming Player profiling?

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by Skubydoooo, Aug 7, 2005.

    Aug 7, 2005
  1. Skubydoooo

    Skubydoooo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bank Technician
    Location:
    United States- Georgia
    I tend to agree with the player profiling theory. I do not have any proof other than $50,000 dollars in losses and "looser" gaming experience each time my wife and I threaten to take our money elsewhere. VIP or Micrgaming, doesn't really matter to me who is cheating me, I just feel cheated. We play allslots and Wildjack because they seemed to be good at first(lol). We are requesting that they close are accounts today as there is no recourse to the foul treatment.

    :(

    I have split this off from an old thread which was inexplicably resurrected and does not appear to have anything to do with the post - Spearmaster
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2005
  2. Aug 7, 2005
  3. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    Sounds to me like you and your wife wagered and lost. Unless you can post proof via screenshots that the casino is indeed cheating you.

    All you need to do is empty the account and don't use it... After a few months of being dormant, the casino will most likely close it.
     
  4. Aug 8, 2005
  5. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    What foul treatment? Losing?

    Dude, you're supposed to lose when you're playing -EV games. How much did you wager to lose that $50,000? Probably 2-3 million right?

    I don't understand why so many people think that a business that is averaging .5-5% off of every wager would risk so much to cheat of an additional couple percent.

    Microgaming casinos are as fair as they come. Quit gambling if you can't accept that.
     
  6. Aug 8, 2005
  7. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    what exactly do you mean by player profiling?
     
  8. Aug 8, 2005
  9. Skubydoooo

    Skubydoooo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bank Technician
    Location:
    United States- Georgia
    Dude, you're supposed to lose when you're playing -EV games. How much did you wager to lose that $50,000? Probably 2-3 million right?

    No DUDE, My wife and bought in for $60,000 total and have only been able to cash out for a total of $10,000

    And it is not the amount of money I am complaining about, Its that we could never win. So DUDE they are taking more than .5-5% from us wouldn't it seem. We never bet the minimum but the next level up. Average wager was about 90 cent to $1.50.
     
  10. Aug 8, 2005
  11. elric

    elric Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Consulting
    Location:
    US
    I am quite sure your results will improve when you bet the next $50,000. :D
     
  12. Aug 9, 2005
  13. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Sheesh, Skuby... you don't walk into a casino and expect to lose 5% of your bankroll over the entire period you are playing.

    The house edge is .5-5% (or more) on every single hand or every single spin. This adds up over time.

    Brief example, not the most accurate description or numbers but it will suffice. You have $100, you sit down at a blackjack table, you bet $10 for 10 hands. You end up losing $5.

    Now you have $95 - so you bet $9.50 for 10 hands, and you end up losing $4.75.

    Now you have $90.25. And so on and so on - all assuming that the house makes exactly the 5% edge. Of course there are times when you will actually make money - but the house edge will still whittle you down over even W-L-W-L streaks.

    This is why you were being asked how long you were playing, or how much in total bets.

    So if you bought in for $60K and have only $10K left, you must've spun a hell of a lot of slots over this time, and judging by the size of the beat, it also looks like you might have been playing progressives, which have a higher house edge (probably 8-10%).
     
  14. Aug 9, 2005
  15. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    Too Bad

    Gosh, I hate reading stories like this...$50 grand.

    But you know, betting $1 or $2 at a time...it was a long haul.

    Didn't you think somewhere around $10-20 grand loser that online gambling might not be your "cup of tea"???

    Too bad you feel cheated...but it was a SLOW process...and you could have quit.

    Here's hoping you do something fun with the $10 grand you saved...perhaps a nice vacation.

    the dUck
     
  16. Aug 9, 2005
  17. paul1

    paul1 Dormant account

    Better luck next time, sir.
     
  18. Sep 5, 2005
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Approach

    I believe it might be a problem in the approach. It is no good setting up a slot on a low stake and spinning away for ages, losing is a certainty. The best way to extract value for money is to enter the promotions. With 50k to spend you could have made quite a stir at Jackpot Factory.
    I would recommend the occasional deposit/wager race tournaments. These work on the principle of $50 deposit wagered once gives one point. A payout of $500 earns 10 bonus points (once per game per day). With $50k to spare you could have won pretty much all the time.

    I have done an "expected value" calculation and all the tournaments of this type run recently have had a net positive expected value for the top prizes.

    For example 600 points won $2000 in August Auction. Blackjack is excluded, so Jacks or Better VP should be used.

    600 points is a gross throughput of $30000 - not a problem if you have Neteller
    Wagering $30,000 at 0.5% house edge costs $150 (In the LONG TERM don't forget, not an individual session/tournament). The top prizes tend to be in the range $500 to $2000, thus always a positive expected value. The most efficient way would to be to wager at the lowest possible stake for as many hands as it takes. This is why the casino gods created Autoplay :)
    It would not be wise to win EVERY FLAMIN' ONE though, as if players became annoyed enough they might complain loudly enough to get changes made (such as barring from the tournaments). Best go for just one, but go for the kill and walk with 2000, which needs to be wagered a mere 5x before withdrawal. This level of play should not be a problem, I won the Jacks or Better yesterday at Casino Action with a wager total in excess of $30,000 in a single day, all manual at $20 per 4-UP deal.

    You must register/login in order to see the link. is worth a look, here you will find the maths behind all casino games, how to determine whether they have cheated, or you have been unlucky (you need a big sample to make a confident accusation of cheating). House Edge is given for the games at various software providers, plus tables and formulae to do it yourself. The wizard's mission seems to be to generate an interest in applied mathematics through the medium of casino gaming - I found the site through Casinomeister.

    Having lost 40k though :( , perhaps time to quit?

    There is no Guarantee that luck will change - my Golden Reef account is CURSED, I can do nothing right there :confused:
    My All Jackpots account is BLESSED :D (Sorry Bryan - opened it through your link).

    (C) All rights reserved. you may not use the above as a means to shaft me in the next Jackpot Factory tournament that I am playing, as I will make damn sure you fail :D :D
     
  20. Sep 6, 2005
  21. jamiester

    jamiester Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Overnight dispatcher
    Location:
    Hampshire County, MA
    math

    cashing out 10K on a 60K deposit doesn't mean you had a .16667 return. You need to divide your total amount won by your total amount bet. If you deposit 60K, then it is likely, even on slots, that you actually wagered over $1 million. Even on a game that pays out 99.9% you can lose 50K, 100K, 1 million, any amount of money if you keep playing long enough (and keep turning the money over).
     
  22. Sep 6, 2005
  23. esquirexx

    esquirexx Banned User

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Istanbul
    I win money from playing.If I win through the agency of cheating,I say to all casino operators ''please continue cheating..if you can do please do more cheating''
    : )
     
  24. Sep 27, 2005
  25. goodie2shoes

    goodie2shoes Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired, RN
    Location:
    California
    Microgaming Player profiling.

    Hello first I want to say hi this is my first post. I have been playing at wild jacks for two years and what has happen to this person has happen to me to, I havent lost as much money, but when i first started playing i did great and now i cant seem to hit a thing. Now this might seem strange but i do notice one thing and this is if i dont play for awhile i seem to do better. I think wild jack has great customer service and they are very good at there bonuses on your play. I dont know anything about this kind of stuff, but can this really happen?
     
  26. Sep 27, 2005
  27. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    If player profiling were occurring, it would require very intense monitoring of thousands of players at any one time. This would require a huge amount of resources which would be nearly impossible to manage.

    That having been said, if profiling were happening, why do I not seem to be affected? And before anyone points out that I might be known to them, I should point out that I lose way more often than I win.

    If you were being profiled, almost surely you would be nickeled-and-dimed to death, there is no way they would let you have decent wins, or just constant losing - I believe that people are simply forgetting that the house always has an edge when gambling and thus one should EXPECT to lose. If you win, surely you aren't being profiled, eh?

    The Winners Screenshot threads should somewhat disprove the theory of profiling - as you can see, there have been many wins, and many BIG wins to boot, and from many different players. Plus at least a few forum visitors have hit progressive jackpots.
     
  28. Sep 28, 2005
  29. goodie2shoes

    goodie2shoes Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Retired, RN
    Location:
    California
    Microgaming Player Profiling

    Thank you very much for your reply, what you say in your reply makes a lot of sense.
     
  30. Sep 28, 2005
  31. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    ... and by the way I agree about Wild Jack - they will take good care of you there. :)
     
  32. Sep 28, 2005
  33. Petunia

    Petunia Dormant account

    Not an investment!

    ** My idea on Gambling: It is not an investment. IF it was, even the best of investments can go belly up sometimes!

    My question is this

    Has there ever been a time during this period where the stakes were UP and you continued to play?

    It is easy to loose that amount of money, and it IS a big amount, but over what period of time? Loosing that much in one sitting seems to be extravagant to start with.

    Being an avid slots player myself I can easily establish when Im on a loosing streak, and I am SURE with that amount at my disposal, it would have been even easier to get a fever and continue playing, even when I realised that I am breaking even or loosing it all!

    I am sorry to hear about your losses, but as it has been pointed out, one should always try to be sensible in your game-play.
    I dont think it is a matter of cheating by the Casino/Software Provider. I do think it is a matter of being caught up in the game, and loosing sight of your overall spend.

    I myself used to be freaked out when I realise that the casino was gobbling my cash up until I changed my frame of mind. I could always go buy some Durban Poison with it and just smoke the lot! *grin * When its gone it is gone Better luck next time! **
     

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