Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[NextToYou]

Yes - this is what I have as of about 30 minutes ago:

maartik
Bogus account - banned

powerball
$50 purchase refunded via Neteller.

cbe2869
Poker account has been unlocked and player was notified.

Bindiana Jones
All accounts re-opened.
All cash-ins have been paid.

vincenski
Bogus account - banned

Pommacc
pending

Holmer
Bogus account - banned

consty1
Will receive refund of 50 purchase.

justusvsg
Bogus account - banned
(From the casino: I don't know what his issue is as there are no positive balances in his accounts and he received his cash-ins to the value 379.70)

stanny
Purchased $110 and cashed in $426

Pretty LOL. Actually no news - they still are going to steal winnings from those two players?

 

[Consty1]

In regards to my account at Capital Casino the reason my winnings have been taken seems to be because I big bet then grinded out the WR. All wagering requirements were met.

 

[The Dude]

Thanks for the update CM!

Can you explain in full what is bogus about the accounts labled as such?

Bogus account = accounts that are opened from the same physical address, same computer, faked IDs, phoney bank statements, etc., on and on. There are a number of things. These "bogus" accounts fall into one or more of these categories.

Can I ask what these players have done that CM believes just a refund of their deposit would constitute a satisfactory conclusion.

I didn't say anything about conclusion. I said this is what I have so far.

Do some push-ups.

 

[GOCC]

I didn't say anything about conclusion. I said this is what I have so far.

Do some push-ups.

You actually said this is what you had as of 30 minutes ago which did insinuate that it was a conclusion

Im a sit up person my self but just knocked 50 out for you

 

[dutchakster]

I have gone ahead and pitched a bitch about this as well. I was playing at 7 Sultans and Vegas Palms yesterday. I ran the combined total up to ~$1100. I cashed out $400+ from Vegas Palms and still had $650 in 7 Sultans when my account was locked in the middle of me clearing the wagering requirements.

Hopefully this is all settled as $1000 is a lot of money to me and I am really scared to deposit into other casinos now.

Thank you for your great service Casino Meister.

 

[jeffdm]

Add Me to The List

Hi,

Long time lurker, this is my first post and my first problem with any accredited casino -- I only play accredited casinos.

I have already pitched a bitch, but just wanted to add that I am another legitimate player with a locked account. I sent in documents and followed all the terms and conditions, but becuase the casino does not like the bets I made they are withholding over C$3000.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the Casinomeister can help us all out here.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[brutaldeluxe]

Almost amusing that I've just had a load of fortune lounge promo material via snail mail......bonus offers this and bonus that.
Suffice to say there's zero chance of me depositing or re-depositing in any fortune lounge casinos having read this thread. Ooooh I won.....erm no you didn't, we decided you aren't allowed to win so we're just gonna keep the money.

If you follow terms and conditions I don't see how on earth they can even attempt to justify witholding players winnings. How long would a bookmaker last that refuses to payout winning bets whenever they feel like it ?

Fortune lounge are going in the dustbin as far as I am concerned.

 

[Vesuvio]

I understand the individual PAB cases are dragging on here but, important as they are for those concerned, I don't see why the general issue should be left until we have a summary (X was a fraudster, Y was mistreated by the casino, etc.). The PAB tail is wagging the Casinomeister forum dog

Fortune Lounge are on record, in e-mails and on this forum, as stating that they've confiscated funds on the basis of play patterns, when no specific terms or conditions have been broken.

At the very least this should see them temporarily removed from the Accredited Casinos list, where point 2 states: They must adhere to their own Terms and Conditions. Otherwise players are being encouraged to play at establishments that can arbitrarily deny winnings if you played with a bonus.

I say "temporarily" as I do think Fortune Lounge have been around for long enough to give them a second chance. If they apologise for their behaviour, pay out the full balance to players in cases where no fraud is evident, and vow to adhere to their specific terms in future, they should return to the Accredited List. Otherwise, they should be rogued.

That seems straightforward and fair, unless anyone really wants to defend the "play pattern" confiscation of funds If they do then that's something we should get out in the open and debate.

 

[The Dude]

I'm still waiting for further info - just so you know.

 

[leszeksch]

fl

They are rogued,because they are stealing players money.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Why no term?

Why can FL not simply ban a "combined" bet as Trident Lounge have in the terms. If players had this issue there, I expect the forum members would defend the casino as it is clearly stated that combining a welcome bonus and the deposit in one big bet is not allowed till the WR for the welcome bonus are completed (or busted out).

Players in these cases are often (but not always) victims of the affiliates who post the method on their site along with the links for the bonus. I have seen this on many sites, where the discussion is "play the bonus like this for $x of expected value", followed by affiliate links and banner ads. Some casinos even give special deals to these affiliates' players, despite the fact that they encourage the kind of playing style the casino does not want.

 

[BruceW47]

Count me in...

Looks like I'm not alone.


Here's my story... it's pretty similar to most of the others I've read in this thread :

Within the last month I have played all 7 casinos in the Fortune Lounge group. They happily accepted my money at the time and credited my accounts with the bonuses, so I guess it's not against their rules. I didn't create any phoney names or gnomes or syndicates or whatever. It was always me, each and every time. If they didn't like me playing at more than one of their group, then they could have turned me away after I signed up at the first one.

Anyway, I'm no dummy...I played smart - I played French Roulette (like a lot of you here), no "abuse", I didn't play black *AND* red, I more than satisfied their wagering requirements, I abided by their terms and conditions... and then 2 days ago received the now-infamous email:


"Hi XXXXXX

We regret to inform you that your Casino account at Fortune Room
Viper has been locked due to suspicious activities taking place on your
account. You may receive an email requesting you to return verification
documents, which we require to re-open your casino account. However, if
you do not receive such a request, we will not be reconsidering the
status of the account and it will remain locked as this decision was
made after a thorough investigation on this account.

As stated in our Terms and Conditions any attempted cash-ins on
this account will not be processed and balances from winnings will be
removed.

Regards ,
Fortune Lounge Player Security"



I emailed them back asking what the heck was all this, to which they replied:


"Hi XXXXXX

Thank you for your e-mail.

We have reviewed your Fortune Room Casino account and see that
you have made the minimum purchase to receive the maximum sign up
bonus.
We also see that you only made use of French Roulette to meet the
wagering requirements for the bonus.

Your play on French Roulette was based on wagering on Black or Red.

Wagering on Black or Red will result in no loss or win for either the
Player or the Casino.

The main outcome is the increased wagering, meeting the wagering
required on the bonus money with no change to the balance, (unless a
Zero is landed).

Therefore there is no fair chance for the casino to win back the
allocated bonus from the player.

There was no intention to play at the Casino, and only to cashin the
bonus money.

The manner in which you have wagered and met your play through is
considered as Promotional misuse.

Please note as stated in the Terms and Conditions if we deregister or
exclude or suspend you from the Casino we shall have the right to:

* withhold payment to you of any contested funds whether such contested
funds are deposits, refunds, bonuses, free monies, casino credits,
payouts or the like; and/or

* exclude you from all or any other Casinos and/or Poker Rooms in the
group of Casinos of which the Casino is a member; and/or

In the case of fraudulent, illegal or similar misconduct by you or
failure by you to pay any sums due to us:

* furnish any relevant information about you to an intra-group database
recording such mischief and, if necessary, hand over your account
details to a collections agency for the recovery of any sums that you
owe us. You hereby irrevocably authorize us to do so in our absolute
discretion, and/or

* have forfeited to us any contested funds that may be derived by you
from fraudulent, illegal or similar misconduct.

Please note that our Player Security Company have made their decision
that your Casino accounts will remain locked.

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any further
queries.

Kind Regards,

Lucas

Casino Desk Support

Where the Player Comes First"



.... hmmmm, how many things can I find wrong in THAT message! LOL. The choice bits to me were:

"Your play on French Roulette was based on wagering on Black or Red"

True enough there, I just played RED and used Autoplay. House edge, nearly 1.5%

... then this mathematical wizard named Lucas goes on to say:

"Wagering on Black or Red will result in no loss or win for either the
Player or the Casino. The main outcome is the increased wagering, meeting the wagering required on the bonus money with no change to the balance, (unless a Zero is landed)."

... errr Lucas, don't you mean wagering on red AND black will do this. But if you DID indeed mean red OR black, then you need to brush up on your probability.


Anyway - too many things wrong there in that phrase to bother with. So later I called in to their support number. First spoke with a fellow named Martin and based on what this fellow had to say - he must have cheated off of Lucas in math class.
I said "Martin, if I indeed played both black AND red, explain to me how I increased my FortuneRoom account balance from 100 to 740? If I play both black and red equally, it's mathematically impossible for me to increase my balance...it can ONLY go down! Tell me how this can happen?".

His reply was "Tell me how this can NOT happen!!!".

LOL!!!

Seeing I was going to get nowhere with this fellow, I asked to speak to the supervisor/manager on duty. I was transferred to a fellow named Francois whom I had a heated discussion with for over a half an hour. As this conversation progressed, it only infuriated me more and more. These fellows do NOT back down from their stance even if you catch them with their pants down. Is it EVER maddening.

"So what form of abuse did I do Francois?", I asked.
"We don't like *HOW* you played Sir - using Autoplay and doing repeated bets on red", he says.
"Umm, if it's illegal to use the Autoplay Francois, why is it there?", I asked.
"It's not illegal sir, but we just don't like HOW you played. You did the minimum deposit, took the bonus and just played the minimum requirements on only French Roulette then immediately cashed out", he said.
"Well, true I did deposit the minimum amount Francois, but I satified over and above your wagering requirements, and I did not *immediately* cash out... that I did about 3 or 4 days later. In any event, if it's illegal to play French Roulette, then why is it your terms that it counts for 50% of the WR?", I said.
"It is not illegal to play French Roulette Sir", he says
"So again, what did I do wrong Francois", I ask. To which he says again ...
"We do not like HOW you played Sir.. you are a bonus abuser", he said
"Please tell me what part of your rules I broke Francois... show me on your website please", I said
"Sir, managements decision is final, we will not be unlocking your account", he says, failing to show me anything on the website that I did not abide by.


So this goes back and forth for 30 minutes. Everytime I tell him to show me exactly what rules I broke and what terms I did not satisfy, he cannot answer. He just changes gears and repeats "We do not like HOW you played Sir. We server the RIGHT to withhold the winnings of any player that we feel, blah blah blah". THAT little gem of a phrase!

Great, so that one little clause basically allows them to make up their own rules mid-stream and not pay winnings just because they "feel" like it... even if the player has satisfied all the requirements.

These guys just do NOT give an inch. You back them into a corner with their pants down, where they have no logical retort, and they just keep spewing "We did not like HOW you played...our decision is final, etc etc".


So again today I called in... this time I spoke to a supervisor/manager named Joshua. No different. You paint them in a corner logically, and they just stick to the same old refrain "... don't like how you played... managements decision is final". Then THIS guy had the nerve to say that I had not satisfied the wagering requirements at all. He said "you realize that wagering requirements are 30X bonus, yes? You received $50 so that makes $1500 wagering requirements. You played French Roulette, which counts for only 50%... this means that you can only claim a maximum of $750 total wagering by your play in French Roulette". I told him he was full of shit and that I knew how Microgaming's bonus system worked. And if he was right, how come I've been already paid in 4 of the 7 Fortune Lounge casinos I've played at a few weeks ago? "Ummm, errrr, we will have to check into that sir... but we have just made this changeover LATELY where only 50% of total wagering can come from French Roulette".


Liar. Look at the terms and conditions of FortuneRoom.com everybody:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Tell me what you see half-way down the page, I see this:

"If you play only Roulette, which count 50% toward your bonus play-through requirement, you will need to play-through 600 credits to move a 10 credit increment to your Cash Balance, and 6,000 credits before the entire bonus is moved to your Cash Balance."


Good Lord these people are full of shit... are they ever digging themselves a hole and making themselves look even MORE crooked than they are.


Mr. Meister, I'll be doing a P-A-B soon. I was going to send a PM to the Fortune Lounge rep in this forum, but I read in this thread that he's bowed out.


Thanks

 

[Gaahl]

It is a sad thing to say, but I actually laughed after reading that last post...
The logic and reasoning (or lack off that is) from the casino support is just mind boggling...

 

[lojo]

Almost amusing that I've just had a load of fortune lounge promo material via snail mail......bonus offers this and bonus that.
Suffice to say there's zero chance of me depositing or re-depositing in any fortune lounge casinos having read this thread. Ooooh I won.....erm no you didn't, we decided you aren't allowed to win so we're just gonna keep the money.

If you follow terms and conditions I don't see how on earth they can even attempt to justify witholding players winnings. How long would a bookmaker last that refuses to payout winning bets whenever they feel like it ?

Fortune lounge are going in the dustbin as far as I am concerned.

It will shake out as it does. Regardless of the Meister's ruling, let this thead be notice to exploiters. If you can't beat the house or enjoy the game for it's intrinsic fun go fex yourselves. You are not welcome at good houses.

Bummer

 

[cyprean]

It is a sad thing to say, but I actually laughed after reading that last post...
The logic and reasoning (or lack off that is) from the casino support is just mind boggling...

He made good points there.

It makes me wonder why Fortune Lounge is still on Casinomeister's accredited list. I understand that CM obviously does not want to make hasty conclusions but this kind of behaviour from a casino is in my humble opinion simply rogue. If I were an affiliate and a casino group that heavily promotes bonuses starts to snatch winnings then I would not be recommending them anymore. Atleast temporarily.

lAt the very least this should see them temporarily removed from the Accredited Casinos list, where point 2 states: They must adhere to their own Terms and Conditions. Otherwise players are being encouraged to play at establishments that can arbitrarily deny winnings if you played with a bonus.

Totally agree with Vesuvio on this point.

 

[jpgah]

I'm also a longtime lurker, first time poster. I have had the same issue as many other people, with my account of nearly $600 locked. If not for the Neteller fiasco, I would have already had my money. Since Neteller was shut down and it was nearly impossible to cashout, I left my money in there until a check/ACH withdrawal could be requested. I did that a week or two ago, but apparently that did not get processed before they locked my account and stole my money. I'm PAB'ing as soon as I'm done posting this.

I am incredulous that they can steal my money when I have followed the T&C's to the letter. I am also really pissed that because of the Neteller fiasco and their inability to process cashouts for two months that I then get my money taken from me. The other interesting thing about this situation is that they said my play wasnt indicative of a player that would return, yet I was unable to withdraw any money from them for over two months, and all of my money was either in Neteller or a couple of sites that I couldnt withdraw from, so how the heck am I supposed to continue playing there?

If they dont get rogued and dropped from the accedited list for this, I am going to be very disappointed in the Casinomeister and his ability to satisfactorily resolve casino disputes. I cannot see any reason that our money should be taken as I've followed all the T&C's to a tee.

 

[lojo]

I'm voting with my money

If this is the only bitch people have with the lounge, boo hoo. For a stickler point you would drive a potentially wonderful play partner into the pit? tsk tsk
I feel totally confident laying my money down.

Now howl hyenas... I think it is a mockery.

 

[brutaldeluxe]

It will shake out as it does. Regardless of the Meister's ruling, let this thead be notice to exploiters. If you can't beat the house or enjoy the game for it's intrinsic fun go fex yourselves. You are not welcome at good houses.

Bummer

Could someone translate that into english for me ?

My interpretation is something along the lines of "It will blow over, whatever the rulings, let this serve as a lesson to people who play at casinos and dare to have the cheek to actually win. If you cannot throw your money away in a silly fashion as the casino wants you to do then go feck yourself. We don't want your type at our shite-hole"

Please tell me I misunderstood that post ! Good houses you say ? You have to be kidding ! Your posts read like the riddles of dungeon-master from dungeons and dragons......I'm not actually sure what you mean.

 

[lojo]

Could someone translate that into english for me ?

My interpretation is something along the lines of "It will blow over, whatever the rulings, let this serve as a lesson to people who play at casinos and dare to have the cheek to actually win. If you cannot throw your money away in a silly fashion as the casino wants you to do then go feck yourself. We don't want your type at our shite-hole"

Please tell me I misunderstood that post ! Good houses you say ? You have to be kidding ! Your posts read like the riddles of dungeon-master from dungeons and dragons......I'm not actually sure what you mean.

I call 'em how I see 'em. If you didn't think they would pay out on a fair bet, I hope you didn't play there.

If you think it is okay to exploit, then okay, that's on you.

I want a fair shake, that's all I ask for. It pisses me off to see some people here acting like hyenas.

I could be wrong, I've said again and again, but I don't think so. These guys will make right. If you exploited them you might get nothing. Boo hoo.

Nitpicking crap, that's all I see. fer fuggs ache, if an exploiter misses the ka-ching! so what! Play on.

 

[The Dude]

I'm still working on this - a few more PABs have come in as well. In the meantime, FL's "accreditation" has been suspended until this is cleared up.

 

[halfday]

I call 'em how I see 'em. If you didn't think they would pay out on a fair bet, I hope you didn't play there.

If you think it is okay to exploit, then okay, that's on you.

I want a fair shake, that's all I ask for. It pisses me off to see some people here acting like hyenas.

I could be wrong, I've said again and again, but I don't think so. These guys will make right. If you exploited them you might get nothing. Boo hoo.

Nitpicking crap, that's all I see. fer fuggs ache, if an exploiter misses the ka-ching! so what! Play on.

Your view is totally insane.

 

[lojo]

I can appreciate that.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Screwed by their own ineptitude.

FL have had this happen because they refused to act on a growing problem, rather hoping it would go away. There has NEVER been any reason why operators have to stick to the default settings of the new bonus system. There was a clear mathematical issue in allocating French Roulette to the 50% weighting, other casinos acted by changing the weightings to 25% on the tables, FL react by waiting for players to deposit at all 7 casinos before suddenly "discovering" they played to win, rather than to lose everything in an entertaining manner.
Simply stating, as they do, that if they just don't like "how you played sir", they can void all winnings if you win, but keep your losses if you lose, means the casino has an unfair advantage over players who like the idea of winning.
How far are they prepared to go, will they be forever making up new "undesirable playing styles" to void winnings? What about meeting the WR at 9c a spin on Thunderstruck? Despite being mathematically unlikely, these slots seem to either be good or bad, and doing this over 7 accounts will probably yield a profit. Any high variance slot over enough accounts with a bonus will give a positive expectation in the long term, although nothing like the 50/50 big bet, players could spin between $10 to $20 for about 50 spins or so, hoping for a bonus round. The likely outcome of a bonus round is 33xbet, and this would average out at $330 to $660, possibly much more if lucky. With bonus rounds on average every 150 spins, there would be a one third chance that one would hit in each of the 7 accounts, the others would bust out quickly and could be ditched. After a decent bonus round, the player would simply micro bet on another slot to clear the rest of the WR. Given enough attempts, assuming 100%+ bonus each time, the outcome would be positive until the casino defines slot only play as "bonus abuse".

FL could defend against all these methods by not allowing all 7 bonuses to be claimed as at present. Jackpot Factory have recently introduced a limit of two welcome bonuses per player.

If they were so keen just to "entertain", they would not be bothered if loads of players just used guest accounts for entertainment, without wanting to use real money. If you have ever played "for fun", you are forever bombarded with offers and interruptions to get you to play for real.

 

[The Dude]

So far I have 15 complaints - four fraudsters - but I'm triple checking on one of them. Waiting for an answer on that.

Two of the remaining have been resolved - the rest are pending.

Just for he record, some of the customer service comments are unacceptable - at least in my opinion. There is no such animal as "serious gamblers" or "we're not paying you because we don't like the WAY in which you played". Unless the casino has "serious gambler" defined in their terms and conditions (I haven't checked, but I'm assuming they don't), then this is pointless and irrelevant.

And if they did define this term, I would still have a problem with it.

I stand by my earlier comments about players that meet terms and conditions and wagering requirements; there is no room for subjective terms. Casinos are responsible to protect themselves from players they don't want.

It pains the hell out of me to remove Fortune Lounge from the "Accredited" section - we've had a relationship that goes back a number of years and there are some really good people working at FL. I don't like seeing this company getting drug through the mud either. But in the same breath, casinos listed on this site are expected to abide by their terms and conditions, and until this is cleared up I have no choice but to suspend their listing.

 

[gamerkip]

A FL Email Conversation

I have read half of this topic since it is very long. I have 6 FL accounts. 5 are blocked. In one account I have €201 Cash Balance! In the other account I have €315 Cash Balance! This is more then €500! Excluding my Bonus Balance! I signed up at the 6 accounts cause I founded this FL webpage:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

FL is complaining about bonus abusers. Improve your T&C and take down this webpage!

I have had a long email conversation with the FL group, using and quoting messages from this topic. It is long but very interseting. They keep falling back on this "We can do what we like term":

Text in red is from the casino
Text in black is from me
Text in lightgray is text from the casino which I used in my respons
Text in blue is my personal message
Bold Text you have to read!
If somebody has comments or advise, don't be afraid to post replay's. I will use PAB as a last resort...




Here it is, YOU HAVE TO READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP:


Hi Roberto
Thank you for contacting the Casinodesk.
The points in your email will be taken into consideration,
The trends identified in regards to Bonus Abuse have not been identified on one casino account or to one withdrawal,
Trends are identified by taking data, identified as a trend, across multiple accounts,
These trends identified were identified as having been contradictory to the terms of the casino referencing the Bonus Abuse in question,
Regretfully I am not able to divulge more detailed information as this is maintained by our Player Security Company,
I thank you for your understanding in this regards and should more information be made available, the casino will contact and notify you accordingly.

Please contact us again, should you have any further queries.

Kind regards
David
Casino Support I did not yet receive anything





Hello,

Before I start, I want to thank you personally for taking time to fully examen my whole email conversating.

A.2 The trends of bonus abusers differ and their patterns are determined by our Player Security Company. Bonus abusers would often change their patterns, to "throw" the casino's off track. A bonus abuser would thus be determined by the play and not the play-through period.
The Player Security Company is something the casino can always use as a fallback position. If somebody has made a big win, you can always claim that the Player Security Company marked the player as a "Bonus Abuser". Anyhow, when I started playing I accepted all the terms including this unclear term. Make a clear term or row of terms since this gives casino full power. Aldo I doubt what a court would say about this if it should come to a case.

A.3 In the event the company states in the offer, that it has the right to remove the offer or not offer the promotion to a certain player or person, then they would be able to offer this once, regardless if you visit any or all of their stores.

Yess, "not offer the promotion to a certain player or person" which means the person can not use the offer BEFORE he or she starts shopping. In the casino's case, which means the player can not use the bonus BEFORE he or she starts playing.

Now, you offer the promotion, get the money from the player, let him play, call him a bonus abuser and his winnings. If I read all the terms carefully, I conclude I do not get my deposit back also?!

A.4 The terms & conditions of the casino, followed by the policies of our Player Security Company determine which players are abusing us. By agreeing to the terms & conditions, which you have to agree to before opening any account at our group, you agree to what is stated in those terms.
I refer to my answer on A.2. Unfortunely I accepted This "we can do what we like term(s)"

I would like to ask you a question, "Has the casino and the Fortune Lounge Group, acted outside of it's rights?"
I don't know. I study rights, but this term the casino is constantly falling back on is a unclear one. I can not guess how a court would judge this. There are many examples in where a company acts in his rights but only by misleading a person. I feel this is happened with me and lots of others. It almost feels like the casino makes their biggest winnings by attracting players who use this strategy. Block them and keep there deposit.

Again, I thank you personally for taking time to fully examen my whole email conversating. I guess this is out of your power and up to the casino management, but if I do not get my deposit back I will use other channels and try hard to make this happen.

Kind Regards and Good day,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting us.

Roberto, I have reviewed all the communication you have received previously and also the email you have just sent us. I am sure that by now you are well aware of the terms & Conditions of the casino and by just highlighting those conditions in this email, will not resolve the matter.

The approach I have decided to take, is to single out all questions you have highlighted in your email and respond in that manner. My job is here is resolve the issue between yourself and Fortune Lounge Group. At times, I would be required to reference the terms & conditions, but I will try my best to keep it minimal. Here we go...

Q.1 "You call this "bonus abuse". Firstly, their is no term describing a "bonus abuser"?"

A.1 Lets say you have a job, where every Friday afternoon there is Free Drinks after work for all employees. You decide to invite one of your friends to join you every Friday. A couple of weeks go by and nobody says anything and you decide, "why don't I invite another friend?" So for the next few weeks, your Company is unaware that you have 2 friends accompanying you and they soon find that the amount of alcohol they supply is not sufficient. They then decide to investigate the matter and find that you and both your friends are consuming all their drinks. The company decides to ban you from their drink on Fridays. The Company is offering this to it's employees and not to you and your friends. As they are offering this, they will have the right to exclude you, as what they had offered had been abused. In this example, there had been no definition of what would be considered abuse, yet looking at the story as a whole, this had been obvious abuse. What I am trying to get across, is that there does not need to be a definition of abuse and this is at the discretion of the provider which in the example is the company and in this instance is the casino.

Q.2 "Secondly, if I would be this "bonus abuser" I would try to meet the play through requirements right away?"

A.2 The trends of bonus abusers differ and their patterns are determined by our Player Security Company. Bonus abusers would often change their patterns, to "throw" the casino's off track. A bonus abuser would thus be determined by the play and not the play-through period.

Q.3 "If one company of supermarkets would offer €50 free of shopping on your first visit. Everybody would be visiting different shops of the same company in the area. If the store doesn't like that is has to make a rule which exclude this shopping behavior. Just like your casino has to make a term like I said before about excluding this behavior."

A.3 In the event the company states in the offer, that it has the right to remove the offer or not offer the promotion to a certain player or person, then they would be able to offer this once, regardless if you visit any or all of their stores.

This is indicated in the Terms & Conditions as stated below:

1.3. Refusal to Register, Deregistration, Exclusion & Suspension


1.3.1. We may refuse to register you as a Player or elect to deregister and exclude you or suspend you as a Player from the Casino at any time and for any reason whatsoever.

1.3.2. You acknowledge hereby that the Casino is not obliged to give you prior notice of its decision to refuse, deregister or exclude or suspend you, nor to furnish you with any reasons for such decision.

Q.4. "Make a term which only allows a person to sign up a max 2 casino's of the fortune lounge group or like I said before, you can make a term that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus?"

A.4 The terms & conditions of the casino, followed by the policies of our Player Security Company determine which players are abusing us. By agreeing to the terms & conditions, which you have to agree to before opening any account at our group, you agree to what is stated in those terms.

Roberto, I am confident that the casino has acted well within it's rights as stated in the Terms & Conditions. You have requested a reason as to why you were considered a bonus abuser and I have answered that as best I could. I would like to ask you a question, "Has the casino and the Fortune Lounge Group, acted outside of it's rights?"

Should you have any further queries in future, no matter how big or how small, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards
Jade
Casino Desk Support





Hello,

The fastest response I got so-far. Appreciate my thanks!

Yess, dubbeling was my tactic. You are correct, after that I did not only played roulette. I made small beds, but I played 6-10 different games of blackjack/roulette with only a few beds. You call this "bonus abuse". Firstly, their is no term describing a "bonus abuser". Secondly, if I would be this "bonus abuser" I would try to meet the playtrhough requirements right away. Please notice that I had I big win, played only a few games with small beds and did not play at my account for like a hole week! It seems to me a "bonus abuser" would try to play through the playthrough requirements right away. I did not do that!

And the only reason I played this dubbeling tactic at multiple account is because off this fortune lounges webpage I found:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

If one company of supermarkets would offer €50 free of shopping on your first visit. Everybody would be visiting different shops of the same company in the area. If the store doesn't like that is has to make a rule which exclude this shopping behaviour. Just like your casino has to make a term like I said before about excluding this behaviour.

Make a term which only allows a person to sign up a max 2 casino's of the fortune lounge group or like I said before, you can make a term that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus.


I am waiting for a response,

Kind Regards,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your e-mail.

I was checking in the system and I have to tell you how the promo abuse works. We have review in all of yours Casinos accounts, due to method you have used to play. Like you know, all the Casinos belong to Fortune Lounge.
The way you were betting plus the short time your accounts were opened is considered for our Security department like Promo Abuse.

In your specific case, you were making a one big bet in Baccarat, and after that you were betting $1(hundreds) in the Roulette to match the wagering requirements. Plus that you were making the minimum purchase ($50) to get the maximum bonus. I hope this information help you to know why the security department have locked your account. (I made a total of ten, max 20 (not hundreds like they say!!) small bets on different roulettes, cause I wanted to play in the weekend cause of school and work)
It is just too co-incidental that we were abused in EXACTLY the same way by over 4000 players.

Your account has been closed for a Manager decision with our Security department and is going to remain in the same way.

Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further queries.
Thank you for playing with Fortune Lounge.

Kind regards
Nico
Casino Support





Hi Sean,

Thanks for answering my email. But you still did not give me a single term I did not follow. I asked for this specifically. You did not give me a rock solid term which describes a "bonus abuser". Instead of calling me a bonus abuser, I call the casino a "player abuser". If a players loses money you keep it of course, if a player has a nice win you block him. Well done, this is your american dream right?!

Anyhow I will take further steps through different channels, about this fraud!
First by contacting the casinomeister website!
Secondly by grouping a large group of people together and make a case of this fraud! Then sue the casino thinking you can do all this without consequences.


I will cancel my actions if the casino deposits my winnings and deposit. If not, you will hear from me again!

Have a nice day and send my personal regards including my actions to your boss,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately the decision of the casino security company is final and their decision will not change; the account will remain locked and any winnings and bonuses forfeited.

To read through the terms and conditions please click on the link below:
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

1.4. Consequences of Deregistration, Exclusion or Suspension


1.4.1. If we deregister or exclude or suspend you from the Casino we shall have the right to:

1.4.1.1. withhold payment to you of any contested funds whether such contested funds are deposits, refunds, bonuses, free monies, casino credits, payouts or the like; and/or

1.4.1.2. exclude you from all or any other Casinos and/or Poker Rooms in the group of Casinos of which the Casino is a member or affiliate; and/or

1.4.1.3. solely determine what criteria you shall have to meet in order to establish a New Account at the Casino; and/or

1.4.1.4 in the case of fraudulent, illegal or similar misconduct by you or failure by you to pay any sums due to us:


1.4.1.4.1 furnish any relevant information about you to an intra-group database recording such mischief and, if necessary, hand over your account details to a collections agency for the recovery of any sums that you owe us. You hereby irrevocably authorize us to do so in our absolute discretion, and/or

1.4.1.4.2 have forfeited to us any contested funds that may be derived by you from fraudulent, illegal or similar misconduct.

1.4.2. If you are deemed to be abusing Casino promotions and bonuses in any way, the casino reserves the right to withhold any bonus amounts and winnings, and suspend your casino account.

If there is anything else I can assist you with, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,
Sean
Casino Desk





Hello again,

I thank you for your quick response.

"Roberto we have reviewed your Capital Casino account and see that you have made the minimum purchase to receive the maximum sign up bonus."
This is legal! I did not break a single term!

"Therefore there is no chance for the casino to win back its bonus allocated or the purchase amount from the player."
This is not my problem! I did not break a single term!

"There was no intention to play at the Casino, and only to cash in the bonus money."
You're making a conclusion for the witness the judge will say in court! I did not break a single term!

"Due to the way that you have wagered and the style in which you have wagered, we consider this Promo Abuse."
Give me a single term I did not follow, give me a URL which defines a "Promo Abuse". There is no term which says players are not allowed to play a specific style, if there is, show me. I did not break a single term!

"We have advised you of what has happened as well as what we are going to be doing with your funds. We will not be able to pay your winnings to you as this is against the Terms that your account has been locked out for."
Nobody has advised me about my money! Again, I did not break a single term!

The casino has told me why it has locked my account. Still, I did NOTHING wrong. Like I said before:
I just played smart, be dubbeling up once and wanting to play through the playthrough requirements after a successful hit! This is not called "Promotional misuse" like you are saying. This is playing by YOUR term & conditions! If you are concerned about people wagering entire bonus & deposit on a low risk game like blackjack/baccarat etc change the terms & conditions to exclude this!
It should not take too much intelligence to work out a system to prevent this while still having a bonus that gives honest players a chance to play the games.
For example put a clause in that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus.

Concluding, again kindly ask you to unlock my account or to deposit my original winnings and deposit to my neteller account.

Please note that I do not consider this a final decision and there will be further consideration made on my account, true me. Via email, phone and many many websites like www.casinomeister.com

Kind Regards,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting the Casino Desk.

Roberto we have reviewed your Capital Casino account and see that you have made the minimum purchase to receive the maximum sign up bonus. well, duhh!

Therefore there is no chance for the casino to win back its bonus allocated or the purchase amount from the player. Not my problem...don't like it, don't offer it!! So, people are not allowed to win anything?! Strange! Very strange!!
There was no intention to play at the Casino, and only to cash in the bonus money.
Due to the way that you have wagered and the style in which you have wagered, we consider this Promo Abuse. We have advised you of what has happened as well as what we are going to be doing with your funds. We will not be able to pay your winnings to you as this is against the Terms that your account has been locked out for.

Please note that we do consider this a final decision and there will be no further consideration made on your account.

Please contact us again, should you have any further queries.

I thank you for your time and patience in this regard.

Kind regards

Bryan

Casino Desk





Hello,

Thank you for answering my email. It isn't that difficult, is it?!

"Your account has been locked because of the beach in the terms and conditions of the casino and of the bonuses."
Tell me specifically which term did I not follow. The term you are referring me to is a "we can do whatever we like term". I study international law so I know what I am talking about. Right now you are stealing money!!

"There are certain guidelines for using the sign up bonus which is available on the website."
Give me the specific guidelines! Tell me specifically what I did wrong!

"Failing to adhere to the bonus promotion rules will have the account locked."
I did not fail anything. The casino just wasn't smart enough by making watertight terms & conditions. So again, I want my account to be unlocked or I want my deposit and winnings cashed-out!

If you have any questions about my email don’t bother to ask me to clear them up for you, since it is a hard subject

Good day,
Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for your e-mail.

Your account has been locked because of the beach in the terms and conditions of the casino and of the bonuses.

There are certain guidelines for using the sign up bonus which is available on the website.
Failing to adhere to the bonus promotion rules will have the account locked.

Because the account was investigated by our Player Security Company and found guilty of breaching the above mentioned policy your account has been locked.
Should you have any further queries in future, no matter how big or how small, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards
Cyril
Casinodesk Support

 

[Gaahl]

Do you guys remember the Iraqi Minister of Information (Comical Ali) during the invasion of Iraq 2002?....

 

[skystick]

VOTE NO Black and Red !

Yesterday i also received the FAMOUS e-mail saying about the wagering in black and red and BLAH BLAH BLAH locked account BLAH BLAH BLAH promotional misuse BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Anyway i don't wanna refer my problem.

After many e-mails and replies they said that they will no longer reply(what a surprise!)

That really made me angry and i said to them that I WILL SEE YOU IN COURT.
WHO THEY THINK THEY ARE TO DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE?

I CALL ALL THE PLAYERS THAT HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF THAT CASINO GROUP TO STAND UP TO THOSE WISEGUYS!

Do you know how much money they made with that "action"?They don't even think of returning the initial deposit.They just "SIMPLY" lock your account.

They really need to send them a bunch of lawyers to shake them in court.This is the only way to get OUR money back.

These people must work in the diplomatic force cause they don't listen to you whatever you tell them,they learn by heart a certain text and shoot us with that.

The casino representative split from this forum!

As you understand i really blew my top and i can arrange a group of lawyers to represent many of us.

STEALING IS A CRIME.JOIN FORCES AND GO TO WAR

Thank you friends for listening.I think i speak for the most

 

[gamerkip]

A FL Email Conversation - UPDATE

An update - READ FROM BOTTOM TO TOP AGAIN:


Hello again,

I want you to read the message of BruceW47
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/locked-account-at-royal-vegas-vegas-towers.16977/

I quoted it for you:

Click the link above and you can read the message og BruceW47

Looks like I'm not alone.
I will not lower myself to a level of shouting people out or calling names since it is obvious
the FL group is full of nothing!

I kindly ask, since I always keep my mathers, to unlock my account or give me my winnings incl deposit back or I will undertake action!

Goodday,

Roberto





Hi Roberto

Thank you for contacting us.

Your accounts will not be unlocked and no funds are due to you.

The exact reasoning was clearly explained to you.


This matter is now closed. (They are starting to talk rude while they are the ones being rude!)

Kind Regards
Justin
Casino Desk Support





Hello,

It is now 5 days ago and I still didn't hear from the FL group. I didn't expect it either!

By now I posted this whole email conversation on www.casinomeister.com
You can find it here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/locked-account-at-royal-vegas-vegas-towers.16977/


I would like you to read the message of the Forum Meister, named casinomeister:

It pains the hell out of me to remove Fortune Lounge from the "Accredited" section - we've had a relationship that goes back a number of years and there are some really good people working at FL. I don't like seeing this company getting drug through the mud either. But in the same breath, casinos listed on this site are expected to abide by their terms and conditions, and until this is cleared up I have no choice but to suspend their listing.


I still want my accounts to be unlocked or my winnings and my deposit to be cashed out cause there is nothing forbidden about my way of playing except you saying: "we're blocking you because we don't like the WAY in which you played".

Nice Regards,

Roberto

 

[gamerkip]

Yesterday i also received the FAMOUS e-mail saying about the wagering in black and red and BLAH BLAH BLAH locked account BLAH BLAH BLAH promotional misuse BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Anyway i don't wanna refer my problem.

After many e-mails and replies they said that they will no longer reply(what a surprise!)

That really made me angry and i said to them that I WILL SEE YOU IN COURT.
WHO THEY THINK THEY ARE TO DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE?

I CALL ALL THE PLAYERS THAT HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF THAT CASINO GROUP TO STAND UP TO THOSE WISEGUYS!

Do you know how much money they made with that "action"?They don't even think of returning the initial deposit.They just "SIMPLY" lock your account.

They really need to send them a bunch of lawyers to shake them in court.This is the only way to get OUR money back.

These people must work in the diplomatic force cause they don't listen to you whatever you tell them,they learn by heart a certain text and shoot us with that.

The casino representative split from this forum!

As you understand i really blew my top and i can arrange a group of lawyers to represent many of us.

STEALING IS A CRIME.JOIN FORCES AND GO TO WAR

Thank you friends for listening.I think i speak for the most

Hi, I am also a victim of them! If you really want to build a case against those m*therf*#kers you will have to group a lot of people.

- Starting with making a website where people can register.
- Opening a new bank account on a bank of your choice.
- Let people who registered make deposits on your bank account even if they do'n't know you. With enough money we can start a case all together.

I haven't done PAB yet, but if PAB doesn't work out I will most certainly back you up if you really want to sue them!

Cheers Roberto!

 

[lojo]

Why haven't you PAB yet, Roberto? It is part of the process here for resolving complaints.

 

[bossplayer]

WOW

4000 players! WTF? Some bonus whore has taken this whole thing to a 'whole, nuther, level'

 

[lojo]

4000 players! WTF? Some bonus whore has taken this whole thing to a 'whole, nuther, level'

I've been of the same mind. It really sucks for the casino group as well as any players who 'played funky' unwittingly.

That said, I totally respect Casinomeister's position and ultimately agree that it is a casino's responsibility to protect itself from players it doesn't want. It just sucks.

God knows how much it would cost them to pay out every claim, or how much it would cost them not to. Some of these players have created a situation, by exploiting a 'loophole', that simply is not fair.

I know my position, for what it's worth, is not popular. I'm not an affiliate and I have no financial interest in the situation - and I'm certainly not participating in the forum to get some controversy thrill. I'm just here for a free exchange of ideas. I wish the players and the casino group the best of luck.

 

[Vesuvio]

Some of these players have created a situation, by exploiting a 'loophole', that simply is not fair.

No, a loophole is: A way of escaping a difficulty, especially an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading compliance. Here it's only the casino that's trying to avoid compliance with the terms.

The problem is FL, like most on-line casinos, think they have a God-given right to keep players' money. Sadly, they don't They just have an overwhelming mathematical probability of doing that, just as long as they only offer games with a house edge. The moment they start playing with the edge to attract players they have to accept the consequences.

FL attacking players for taking up an offer which gives them an advantage is as nonsensical as berating mould for turning up on a slice of bread you left out for a month

 

[cyprean]

God knows how much it would cost them to pay out every claim, or how much it would cost them not to. Some of these players have created a situation, by exploiting a 'loophole', that simply is not fair.

As Vesuvio said, you are totally off base there.

It seems like Fortune Lounge has locked out 4000 players - all who have played roulette. Some of them seem to have learned roulette strategies from affiliates that are offering easy bonus clearance strategies and at the same time promoting those sites. It should not be the players' fault if they get caught in the mess if they have followed the terms & conditions.

I'm just here for a free exchange of ideas. I wish the players and the casino group the best of luck.

This somewhat contradicts your previous posts where you told the players to go **** themselves. I might have misread you though.

 

[The Dude]

Hi, I am also a victim of them! If you really want to build a case against those m*therf*#kers you will have to group a lot of people.

Account suspended 7 days for violation of rule 1.1.

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended. Please refrain from potty mouth language.

This serves as a warning not to let this thread spiral into a tirade. FortuneLounge is still a member of this forum. Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Too Funny!!

I have read half of this topic since it is very long. I have 6 FL accounts. 5 are blocked. In one account I have 201 Cash Balance! In the other account I have 315 Cash Balance! This is more then 500! Excluding my Bonus Balance! I signed up at the 6 accounts cause I founded this FL webpage:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

FL is complaining about bonus abusers. Improve your T&C and take down this webpage!

etc...

Q.1 "You call this "bonus abuse". Firstly, their is no term describing a "bonus abuser"?"

A.1 Lets say you have a job, where every Friday afternoon there is Free Drinks after work for all employees. You decide to invite one of your friends to join you every Friday. A couple of weeks go by and nobody says anything and you decide, "why don't I invite another friend?" So for the next few weeks, your Company is unaware that you have 2 friends accompanying you and they soon find that the amount of alcohol they supply is not sufficient. They then decide to investigate the matter and find that you and both your friends are consuming all their drinks. The company decides to ban you from their drink on Fridays. The Company is offering this to it's employees and not to you and your friends. As they are offering this, they will have the right to exclude you, as what they had offered had been abused. In this example, there had been no definition of what would be considered abuse, yet looking at the story as a whole, this had been obvious abuse. What I am trying to get across, is that there does not need to be a definition of abuse and this is at the discretion of the provider which in the example is the company and in this instance is the casino.

A* - If FL attitude were applied to this, it would not end there, the friends have already consumed the drinks, the ban applies to FUTURE Free drink events. In FL terms, not only would the friends and employee be banned, but the friends would be summoned by force to have their stomachs pumped to retrospectively recover the drinks they had "cashed out" before being identified by the "security" as abusing the offer.

Q.2 "Secondly, if I would be this "bonus abuser" I would try to meet the play through requirements right away?"

A.2 The trends of bonus abusers differ and their patterns are determined by our Player Security Company. Bonus abusers would often change their patterns, to "throw" the casino's off track. A bonus abuser would thus be determined by the play and not the play-through period.

A* - This is so open ended that ANY player who plays by ANY STYLE could be locked simply for winning - it would be determined by secret trial with no opportunity for the player to defend themselves, nor even see the evidence, which would be purely circumstancial anyway.

Q.3 "If one company of supermarkets would offer 50 free of shopping on your first visit. Everybody would be visiting different shops of the same company in the area. If the store doesn't like that is has to make a rule which exclude this shopping behavior. Just like your casino has to make a term like I said before about excluding this behavior."

A.3 In the event the company states in the offer, that it has the right to remove the offer or not offer the promotion to a certain player or person, then they would be able to offer this once, regardless if you visit any or all of their stores.

A* In the first case, the shop would use a voucher system so that the shopper handed over the voucher at the checkout in order to redeem the offer. If they only intended it to be used once, they would only send one voucher to the shopper. The FL exit popup from the website effectively gives the "shopper" all 7 vouchers to use, in fact, rams the offer down their throat even if they visit the site out of curiosity, or have already used the offers.
When the "shopper" has been found to have used all 7, the casino can decide they "don't like it", and issue a ban.
In the case of a supermarket, where they allowed a shopper to redeem this at, say, 7 stores, they could decide that the shopper was using the offer at too many stores with no intention of shopping regularly at his "local". However, unlike FL, they would probably ban the shopper from using store promotions, they would NOT even consider sending bailiffs round to recover the excess shopping from his house that they deem was "bought" purely to take advantage of the free shopping offers.

Q.4. "Make a term which only allows a person to sign up a max 2 casino's of the fortune lounge group or like I said before, you can make a term that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus?"

A.4 The terms & conditions of the casino, followed by the policies of our Player Security Company determine which players are abusing us. By agreeing to the terms & conditions, which you have to agree to before opening any account at our group, you agree to what is stated in those terms.

A* - Jackpot Factory have a term limiting players to 2 sign up bonuses over the group as a whole. Trident Lounge specifically prohibit the "big bet on bacarrat" method when the player has the sign up bonus, other casinos have other terms that prohibit a pattern of taking the bonus in all group properties before a second deposit or more has been made to an existing account where a bonus was given on the first deposit.

Roberto, I am confident that the casino has acted well within it's rights as stated in the Terms & Conditions. You have requested a reason as to why you were considered a bonus abuser and I have answered that as best I could. I would like to ask you a question, "Has the casino and the Fortune Lounge Group, acted outside of it's rights?"

A* - Of course FL acted "within their rights", they gave themselves the right to do absolutely anything they liked, so it would be impossible for them NOT to have acted "within their rights".
In the real world, the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Mugabe, etc acted within the law of their respective contries, but as dictators, or single party state leaders, they made the law up so that they were able to do what they felt they had to, disagreement was not tolerated, with anyone speaking up sent to places like Siberia. The "real world" considered these leaders to have given themselves unreasonable rights (understatement - they were branded as "evil", "rogues", etc), and acted accordingly. Two have been discracred, and one is struggling to remain in power. Similarly, if big companies give themselves unreasonable rights in contract, the courts can overturn the unreasonable clause and require the company to comply. If FL were regulated in a PROPER juristiction, they would be ordered to pay all these players because the "F U Clause" would be struck out, the court would tell FL that they had to specifically state what they consider as "undesirable play", so that players were fully aware of their obligations before parting with their money.

 

[Ferretktf]

It will shake out as it does. Regardless of the Meister's ruling, let this thead be notice to exploiters. If you can't beat the house or enjoy the game for it's intrinsic fun go fex yourselves. You are not welcome at good houses.

Bummer

reading this thread I have to say that you sir, are an absolute muppet ... and a total shill for the Casino ... or an employee of FL


I do hope this does not fall foul of rule 1.1 but it has to be said. Either that or this guy is a total wind-up merchant, in which case his posts certainly fall foul of rule 1.1. .... "do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle....."

 

[lojo]

reading this thread I have to say that you sir, are an absolute muppet ... and a total shill for the Casino ... or an employee of FL


I do hope this does not fall foul of rule 1.1 but it has to be said. Either that or this guy is a total wind-up merchant, in which case his posts certainly fall foul of rule 1.1. .... "do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle....."

Simply my opinion. Why must it be Us and Them? What I saw occuring here was a feeding frenzy, IMO. If I'm to judge between a person who exploits and a business trying to save itself... I chose to see things from the side of the casino. Would you prefer to censor contrary opinion? I did this with limited info, and with no real interests in the outcome, other than what I considered 'the right thing'. In the final anaysis, I guess it was none of my business. I expressed my opinion - if you were offended, I apologize.

If it were some shady operators I would have kept out of it or sided with the majority. But it wasn't, they aren't. And in the end, I am just a player posting on a forum. I'm not second guessing any decisions by the owner of this forum, nor am I arguing the casino group's case for them. I will excercise the priveledge of disagreeing as long as the moderators allow me to. And I respect your excercise of opinion as well. But 'muppet', well that's... hmm.

"I am not now, nor have I ever been associated, affiliated or employed as a muppet!"

 

[halfday]

Simply my opinion. Why must it be Us and Them?

That would be because THEY are trying to lure you in to lose your money. They want you to LOSE YOUR MONEY.
You understand this concept correct? They are not there in a partnership with you. They want your money. Period. Its silly to think otherwise.
Now, is it reasonable to expect to get paid when you actually win against games with built in advantage to the casino? It is simple minded to think that it is a give and take. If it was then they would offer games of EVEN chance.. not built to lose. Every game would be a 50/50 proposition. I am pretty sure that they don't offer any games that give you an equal chance to win. I have never ever heard a view like this unless it was from someone trying to sell me something.

 

[lojo]

That would be because THEY are trying to lure you in to lose your money. They want you to LOSE YOUR MONEY.
You understand this concept correct? They are not there in a partnership with you. They want your money. Period. Its silly to think otherwise.
Now, is it reasonable to expect to get paid when you actually win against games with built in advantage to the casino? It is simple minded to think that it is a give and take. If it was then they would offer games of EVEN chance.. not built to lose. Every game would be a 50/50 proposition. I am pretty sure that they don't offer any games that give you an equal chance to win. I have never ever heard a view like this unless it was from someone trying to sell me something.

I can see how I could sound like a shill or a fool. I just look at it differently.
What I consider a fair game, and what others do may be two totally different things.

Call it two schools of thought:

1. It's okay to take any and all advantage 'legally' allowed to increase my chances against a casino.
with all it's subsets

2. Be happy to know that 95% is 95%, (or even 75% all else being equal), sometimes I win sometimes I lose.
and I'm not above utilizing a bonus now and then

I'm of the second school in this debate. Any casino I trust is my partner. We have a deal; I give them my money, they give me a chance to increase it dramatically. I can also lose all or some of it.

Sorry for the ridiculous analogy here, but If I tell my wife that there is no where in our vows against certain intimate acts with other women, (that's not sex) just because it isn't specifically prohibited, and she tells me 'we're done, thanks for the memories' I guess I just learned the reality of it.

Ridiculous analogy, I know. And you can argue that the only thing sacred in a business agreement is that black stuff on the page (none of it between the lines, is there?) And I can argue that the spirit of the agreement should supercede the text. (I would be wrong in the long run because that is a slippery slope and I understand that. But in some cases it is true)

Only thing I'm trying to sell is a point of view and if it hasn't been digested yet, it probably won't be.

I appreciate your level mind, halfday, and if you took anything I said personally I'm sorry.

Now I gotta get off this thread and do some playin

 

[NextToYou]

Please start playing poker instead of casinos lojo, I like your attitude.

 

[lojo]

Please start playing poker instead of casinos lojo, I like your attitude.

Ahhh, ya just say that cuz you wanna kick my butt at the game?

 

[halfday]

Casinomeister,

I just got your news letter and read it right away (ofcourse). I have to make a point here if I may please:

Now several months ago, eCOGRA conducted a survey that indicated that about 40% of online gamblers visit message boards. I would feel safe to say that players who are bonus savvy frequent message boards more often. But let's keep this figure at 40%. 40% of 4000 accounts is 1600. So realistically speaking, I should have a significant peak in traffic from these 1600 or more players coming to Casinomeister to bitch and moan. Looking over my stats for both the forum and the main site, it's virtually unchanged. There is no indicator that activity has increased except for a slight increase of new forum members, many of whom began participating in a thread that is concerned with this issue.

It was alluded to earlier but this is not exactly logical. The reason is because not all of those 4000 accounts that were locked had pending payouts. I for example had all my accounts closed but had no pending cashouts so I am not going to waste the time to PAB or hit Ecogra because there is no purpose as I wont ever play at FL again. There were other posts in this thread indicating the same thing. I think not all of those 4000 accounts are aware of your fine and outstanding site either. On other message boards I know of people who have filed Ecogra disputes but not PAB also.
Just wanted to give some reasons that you are not flooded right now.
I have one more question also. Will Fortune lounge be Rogued for this? I understand that my opinion means very little compared to yours but isn't this exactly the type of action that gets casinos rogued?

 

[Vesuvio]

Shouldn't it be 4000 accounts / 8 FL casinos = about 500 players (it might be that FL claimed 4000 players - I couldn't find it when I skimmed back through the thread)

So what the hell happened to Fortune Lounge? Well, they got nailed pretty hard by a bunch of bonus players who found that they could play certain games a certain way - and they made a killing.

I think that's a misrepresentation of what happened. Players have been taking advantage of FL's bonus offers for years, and the way the bonus has worked recently has been nothing special - if anything, it's much less attractive than before and the amount of "bonus abuse" is probably down.

The real story here is why FL have become desperate enough now to act like rogues. It could simply be greed, but probably it's down to lost income from US players. Bonus players have been tolerated as the advertising value of bonuses drew in enough "recreational" players to make any losses to other players almost irrelevant (hence a certain recklessness on the part of the casinos). It'll be interesting to see how many reputable casinos we'll be left with if the US aren't let back in.

Anyway, I'm glad the newsletter stands up strongly for casinos abiding by their own terms and not falling back on "anything goes" clauses.

 

[GOCC]

Casinomeister,

I just got your news letter and read it right away (ofcourse). I have to make a point here if I may please:



It was alluded to earlier but this is not exactly logical. The reason is because not all of those 4000 accounts that were locked had pending payouts. I for example had all my accounts closed but had no pending cashouts so I am not going to waste the time to PAB or hit Ecogra because there is no purpose as I wont ever play at FL again. There were other posts in this thread indicating the same thing. I think not all of those 4000 accounts are aware of your fine and outstanding site either. On other message boards I know of people who have filed Ecogra disputes but not PAB also.
Just wanted to give some reasons that you are not flooded right now.
I have one more question also. Will Fortune lounge be Rogued for this? I understand that my opinion means very little compared to yours but isn't this exactly the type of action that gets casinos rogued?

Same here

I even had an account locked at Thundeluck that always said they were nothing to do with FL but just used the same software

 

[BruceW47]

Mr. Casinomeister... did you receive the private message I sent to you a few days ago?

 

[powerball]

Casinomeister: Have you heard anything new from the Casino? Any new information? Any prospects of being paid?

 

[stanny]

Yeah at this point I'll be just happy getting my deposit back.

 

[The Dude]

....The reason is because not all of those 4000 accounts that were locked had pending payouts

I'm going by intel I have from FL and I'm not divulging all the numbers quite yet. But they are fairly accurate. There is a substantial amount of player fraud involved; a lot of this is combined with bonus whoring. Nonetheless, when crisis like this occur, the traffic tends to peak. I can go back several years and pinpoint when severe casino problems have hit the forum. It's a natural occurrence like the weather. And the severity of this issue, I would consider on a scale of 1-10 an eight, so there should have been a storm of activity.

To be honest with you, traffic was relatively unchanged during the entire time. There was no peak. Don't you find that odd? I do - it's extremely odd.

Also, considering the numbers, there was a low turn-out for PABs - and 1/4 of these were fraudulent, and a few of the others have been resolved.

Sure not everyone knows about this site - but I would guess that most players who patronize the FL casinos read the FL casinos' website and can see the there is an eCOGRA seal that is hyperlinked to eCOGRA and their dispute resolution page. Logically thinking, eCOGRA should have been swamped with complaints. I don't think this has happened.

So what we are dealing with is a conglomeration of player fraud and naughty bonus "abusers" on a massive scale. I'm still waiting for the smoke to clear to make heads or tails out of this. It's not over yet.

 

[The Dude]

Mr. Casinomeister... did you receive the private message I sent to you a few days ago?

I have no PM from you. Please resend.