Ladbrokes Games - LOTR Slot - wager £50 for £50 Bonus

[kamoon]

Ladbrokes did everything wrong here.

Original terms

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-They changed the terms during the promotion and retrospectively applied them to all players.
-Some were denied the bonus after customer had wagered the £50 required and only after that were told they were bonus banned.
-Some had their balance deducted by the amount of the bonus after they had wagered it within the original terms. Payout was also denied and he got bonus banned from future promotions.
-Before the end of the promotion period the game could not be played because of a "technical problem". However, Demo play worked fine.

An excerpt of email received after they had credited the bonus (which was delayed because of technical problems):

Please note: This bonus must be turned over once on the Lord of the Rings Slot in games before your winnings are withdrawable. Any customers found to be abusing the spirit of the promotion and wagering this bonus on any other game may be excluded from future Ladbrokes Games promotions and have their accounts suspended.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ladbrokes did everything wrong here.

Original terms

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-They changed the terms during the promotion and retrospectively applied them to all players.
-Some were denied the bonus after customer had wagered the £50 required and only after that were told they were bonus banned.
-Some had their balance deducted by the amount of the bonus after they had wagered it within the original terms. Payout was also denied and he got bonus banned from future promotions.
-Before the end of the promotion period the game could not be played because of a "technical problem". However, Demo play worked fine.

An excerpt of email received after they had credited the bonus (which was delayed because of technical problems):

Please note: This bonus must be turned over once on the Lord of the Rings Slot in games before your winnings are withdrawable. Any customers found to be abusing the spirit of the promotion and wagering this bonus on any other game may be excluded from future Ladbrokes Games promotions and have their accounts suspended.

PAB - no such animal as "spirit of the bonus" according to CM.

How can one "abuse" such an offer simply by playing a different slot game.

I am beginning to wonder whether 888.com took over Ladbrokes, rather than the other way around - this is the kind of BS 888.com would come out with.

Provided the terms AS PUBLISHED were obeyed, they have to pay out. "Doing a Betfair" because they screwed up the offer is NOT acceptable.

 

[Deeplay]

Lads are crap when it comes to most bonus offers! Other week I took up a £100 slots match bonus. Made the deposit knowing it will take up to 48 hours for the bonus to be credited. Lost the 100. 2 days later still no bonus. Emailed support asking where be ? and they did reply saying I had to turn over my deposit 20 times before I would be eligable for the bonus as I made my deposit with Neteller! I pointed out that I did not manage to play 20 xs as I bust out real fast and my balence was at zero. In the end they did give me the 100 match bonus.

However how mad is it that to get a bonus you have to wager 20xs because of making a deposit through a system (neteller) which already makes you go through a stack of security checks to get the account open in the first place! And then if you luck out not managing to turn over the money 20xs you dont get the bonus but they do get the deposit! A Gamble within a gamble.

A Casino owned by the biggest UK bookmaker should do miles better than this. I wont even bother with any promos from them in the future and only deposit (small amounts) due to the fact they do have a fast cash out system. Other than that they do suck in some areas

 

[De Beuker]

Lads are crap when it comes to most bonus offers! Other week I took up a £100 slots match bonus. Made the deposit knowing it will take up to 48 hours for the bonus to be credited. Lost the 100. 2 days later still no bonus. Emailed support asking where be ? and they did reply saying I had to turn over my deposit 20 times before I would be eligable for the bonus as I made my deposit with Neteller! I pointed out that I did not manage to play 20 xs as I bust out real fast and my balence was at zero. In the end they did give me the 100 match bonus.

However how mad is it that to get a bonus you have to wager 20xs because of making a deposit through a system (neteller) which already makes you go through a stack of security checks to get the account open in the first place! And then if you luck out not managing to turn over the money 20xs you dont get the bonus but they do get the deposit! A Gamble within a gamble.


A Casino owned by the biggest UK bookmaker should do miles better than this. I wont even bother with any promos from them in the future and only deposit (small amounts) due to the fact they do have a fast cash out system. Other than that they do suck in some areas

I found that out the hard way too, the neteller hatred.
But it seems they have dropped the term that you have to be a UK or Singapore resident to be eligible for the bonus?
Now you must have selected English or Irish (isn't that the same?) as your default language? What a weird term.

And the Spirit of the Promotion, is that the part of the promotion that goes to heaven when the promotion dies?

 

[GrandMaster]

Now you must have selected English or Irish (isn't that the same?) as your default language?

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[vinylweatherman]

I found that out the hard way too, the neteller hatred.
But it seems they have dropped the term that you have to be a UK or Singapore resident to be eligible for the bonus?
Now you must have selected English or Irish (isn't that the same?) as your default language? What a weird term.

And the Spirit of the Promotion, is that the part of the promotion that goes to heaven when the promotion dies?

No, it's NOT the same at all. The original term restricted the offer to UK and Singapore residents. The new term is open to ANYBODY who is prepared to operate in the English language (or Irish). Given that English is a common second language taught in many schools, this means that almost anyone from any country who has been to school is now eligible for this bonus.

If this really was £50 for wagering the deposit 1x, and cashable by wagering the bonus 1x, it is almost as +EV as the Betfair cock-up, and Ladbrokes stand to hand £45 on a plate to every player (on average) who took up this offer (£100 total wager, house takes £5 on average, player takes £45 of bonus + their original £50 deposit).


As for the email:-

Please note: This bonus must be turned over once on the Lord of the Rings Slot in games before your winnings are withdrawable. Any customers found to be abusing the spirit of the promotion and wagering this bonus on any other game may be excluded from future Ladbrokes Games promotions and have their accounts suspended.

I don't see anything about this in the PUBLISHED terms, in fact this is far more GENEROUS than the published terms, which say the bonus is for wagering, and since nothing is specified about this wagering, the general bonus terms would apply, which I believe is 30x the bonus, not 1x.

Worst of all, they are using THIS:-

Any customers found to be abusing the spirit of the promotion and wagering this bonus on any other game may be excluded from future Ladbrokes Games promotions and have their accounts suspended.

Well, for starters - this was NOT in the published terms and conditions, this was sent by email "after the fact", and probably after many players had already played through the promotion.

There is NO "abuse" either by playing, say, Hellboy as opposed to LOTR with a bonus, so even the SPIRIT is not abused in this way, let alone the RETROSPECTIVELY ALTERED terms sent to players by email.

The "Neteller hatred thing" was at least stipulated in the PUBLISHED terms, so that players knew where they stood, and like me probably decided to uninstall Ladbrokes until this term got dropped.

The "Neteller term" seems to be gone from THIS promo, but Ladbrokes will STAY off my PC now that they are using these "spirit of the bonus" terms to confiscate winnings and lock accounts.

I also note that the link from the Accredited list has been "crippled" by Ladbrokes, as it now gives the page "this promotion no longer exists", which then later auto refreshes to the standard landing page.

Ladbrokes have been known to be over generous in the past, but using "spirit of the bonus" clauses is NOT what is expected from an accredited casino, they should use SPECIFIC terms to curtail the generosity levels if it has started to cost them too much.

 

[topoor]

Ladbrokes have done this to me also. I have tried explaining to them that I qualified under different terms but they have told me that they have the right to change their terms whenever they like and however they like and if I didnt like it then tough.

They also told me that they werent interested in casinomeisters view of spirit of the promotion when I mentioned they were an accredited casino here

I dont see much difference in this to the way Betfair have behaved and personally I think Ladbrokes should suffer the same fate.

Its been a sad start to the New Year with two of the biggest names in gaming leaving fairness and decency behind them along with 2010.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ladbrokes have done this to me also. I have tried explaining to them that I qualified under different terms but they have told me that they have the right to change their terms whenever they like and however they like and if I didnt like it then tough.

They also told me that they werent interested in casinomeisters view of spirit of the promotion when I mentioned they were an accredited casino here

I dont see much difference in this to the way Betfair have behaved and personally I think Ladbrokes should suffer the same fate.
Its been a sad start to the New Year with two of the biggest names in gaming leaving fairness and decency behind them along with 2010.

Then PAB.

This is the ONLY way to make Bryan and Max aware of this sudden change of attitude from Ladbrokes. I have SEEN them using "spirit of the bonus" in their terms and conditions, and your PAB will be case study of it's application.

Retrospective application of changed terms to play completed BEFORE the change is also a big "no-no" under accreditation standards.

This is even WORSE than Betfair, since this is NOT a screw-up costing MILLIONS as was the case with Betfair. Each player who "abused the spirit" of this offer trousered an average of £45 profit, as would be CLEARLY OBVIOUS from the maths at the outset before the promotion was even launched.


ALL PLAYERS who have "spirit of the bonus" written to them in an email from Ladbrokes should PAB right away.

Future offers should be checked for terms that are non-compliant with standards for accreditation.

 

[topoor]

They seem oblivious to the rights and wrongs of getting customers to deposit then changing rules and in fact state why they can do what they want!

"We have investigated the issue further and can confirm that if you wish to receive the bonus of £50 for the Lord of the Rings offer, you need to agree to stake the bonus on Lord of the Rings Slot on www.ladbrokesgames.com .



The amendment to the terms and conditions on 18th January made by our Marketing Team reflects this clearly and no exceptions will be made to any customer who wishes to claim and receive this bonus.



Our promotions are purely for recreational purposes and our bonuses are designed to be played on our site to enhance customers existing play. On this occasion, due to a large amount of customers not taking part on this promotion in the spirit it was intended to, we were forced to amend the terms and conditions and restrict play solely on the above game.

Please note point 13 & 14 of our terms and conditions:

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Our decision on this matter is final, however, if you wish to contact us again, please do not hesitate to do so.



Kind regards,



Ana Sowerby

Promotions Team Manager

Ladbrokes International Limited

& Ladbrokes Sportsbook Limited Partnership"

They refer to point 13 & 14 in every mail conversation I had with them:

"Ladbrokes also reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of any promotion at any time. This can be seen in the terms and conditions of the Promotion under points 13 and 14."

 

[vinylweatherman]

They seem oblivious to the rights and wrongs of getting customers to deposit then changing rules and in fact state why they can do what they want!

"We have investigated the issue further and can confirm that if you wish to receive the bonus of £50 for the Lord of the Rings offer, you need to agree to stake the bonus on Lord of the Rings Slot on www.ladbrokesgames.com .



The amendment to the terms and conditions on 18th January made by our Marketing Team reflects this clearly and no exceptions will be made to any customer who wishes to claim and receive this bonus.



Our promotions are purely for recreational purposes and our bonuses are designed to be played on our site to enhance customers existing play. On this occasion, due to a large amount of customers not taking part on this promotion in the spirit it was intended to, we were forced to amend the terms and conditions and restrict play solely on the above game.

Please note point 13 & 14 of our terms and conditions:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Our decision on this matter is final, however, if you wish to contact us again, please do not hesitate to do so.



Kind regards,



Ana Sowerby

Promotions Team Manager

Ladbrokes International Limited

& Ladbrokes Sportsbook Limited Partnership"

They refer to point 13 & 14 in every mail conversation I had with them:

"Ladbrokes also reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of any promotion at any time. This can be seen in the terms and conditions of the Promotion under points 13 and 14."

That link is a "404" error. How can Ladbrokes expect players to be able to CHECK the facts of this.

I really can't see what difference it makes WHICH game the bonus gets wagered 1x on after receipt, this will still be "abused" just as much.

Just agree, and wager it the specified 1x on the game stated, and then withdraw, or have they made TWO retrospective changes, and changed the 1x quoted in the email to 30x.

Seems they are backing off a bit already, and granting the bonus subject to agreeing to wager it 1x on LOTR. Go for it, makes no difference, still a £45 average +EV return to the player.

Keep digging Ladbrokes

 

[Seventh777]

Let me get this straight... Ladbrokes changes the rules (which is clearly stated in their T&C`s), so now there is a massive x1 playthrough on the bonus!!!!! wow.

A few aspects of Ladbrokes....

1). When you have a decent payout, there is still a great chance you can deposit and have a good payout again (had 3 consecutive withdrawals lately).

2). The one time I had a bad spell of deposits was during a 25% cashback bonus, which I received £80+ 100% cash back, turned this into more and withdrew.

3). In comparison I have made numerous deposits at Dash, Nedplay, Golden Lounge, and on no more than 3-5 occasions have I managed to raise my balance above what I started with, in response to my many gripes at their CS agents I am duly replied to with `Sorry there`s nothing we can do/offer you atm` which roughly translated means `Whilst you are still way in the black with your deposits/withdrawal ratios at 32Red`.


Go figure, ofc these sort of scenarios mean nothing when handing out awards etc

 

[topoor]

There was always a "massive" 1x play through on the bonus - the issue is that ladbrokes changed the rules after players had qualified.

It doesnt matter whether the changes are massive or minor, players should be able to trust a casino. Terms and conditions either matter or they dont. The amount of players on this forum that have lost out on big payouts due to not sticking to terms is rather large and for the rules no matter how trivial they may seem to suddenly not be enforceable because a casino decides they dont want them to be is completely unacceptable.

The moment we allow a casino to have one set of rules for itself and another for a player is the day we should hand them our ATM cards and just let them take every cent we own.

 

[vinylweatherman]

There was always a "massive" 1x play through on the bonus - the issue is that ladbrokes changed the rules after players had qualified.

It doesnt matter whether the changes are massive or minor, players should be able to trust a casino. Terms and conditions either matter or they dont. The amount of players on this forum that have lost out on big payouts due to not sticking to terms is rather large and for the rules no matter how trivial they may seem to suddenly not be enforceable because a casino decides they dont want them to be is completely unacceptable.

The moment we allow a casino to have one set of rules for itself and another for a player is the day we should hand them our ATM cards and just let them take every cent we own.

That's why you should PAB, as well as take their £45 by playing through 1x on LOTR just to humour them. It's NOT about getting paid, it is about pulling a "spirit of the bonus" stunt right under CM's nose, and thinking this, and retrospective changes to terms, is OK for an accredited casino.

This needs to be nipped in the bud, and Ladbrokes told to write proper terms to start with, NOT resort to "spirit of the bonus" rules because they were too lazy to write a proper set of terms from the outset.

From a PLAYERS' point of view, the "spirit" was obvious - to take the free £45 on offer

 

[Nifty29]

Retroactive changes to terms is UNACCEPTABLE.

I think you'll find CM agrees....and this is before we even GET to the spirit of the bonus nonsense.

I used to think the spirit of the bonus was all that was left after losing it....

 

[Tengil]

AFAIK the bonus was non cashable in an untraditional way. You got 50 and played it trough and the winnings derived from the wagering was withdrawable. Basically 50 worth of "free spins".

 

[topoor]

No, it was a £50 account credit that had to be wagered once on any game to be made withdrawable.

 

[Deeplay]

Let me get this straight... Ladbrokes changes the rules (which is clearly stated in their T&C`s), so now there is a massive x1 playthrough on the bonus!!!!! wow.

A few aspects of Ladbrokes....

1). When you have a decent payout, there is still a great chance you can deposit and have a good payout again (had 3 consecutive withdrawals lately).

2). The one time I had a bad spell of deposits was during a 25% cashback bonus, which I received £80+ 100% cash back, turned this into more and withdrew.

3). In comparison I have made numerous deposits at Dash, Nedplay, Golden Lounge, and on no more than 3-5 occasions have I managed to raise my balance above what I started with, in response to my many gripes at their CS agents I am duly replied to with `Sorry there`s nothing we can do/offer you atm` which roughly translated means `Whilst you are still way in the black with your deposits/withdrawal ratios at 32Red`.


Go figure, ofc these sort of scenarios mean nothing when handing out awards etc

For neteller deposits it was not 1x playthough but an insane 20x even before you get the bonus. Woe unto those who bust out before even being able to wager 20times there deposit. Hence it be a gamble on a gamble to even get the bonus. For some reason they let me have mine after I explained that when playing I could not get to 20x playthough as my balence went quickly to zero.

 

[GrandMaster]

For neteller deposits it was not 1x playthough but an insane 20x even before you get the bonus. Woe unto those who bust out before even being able to wager 20times there deposit. Hence it be a gamble on a gamble to even get the bonus. For some reason they let me have mine after I explained that when playing I could not get to 20x playthough as my balence went quickly to zero.

Was it in the T&C that you had to reach the WR on a single deposit and could not deposit more?

 

[Nifty29]

Why is Neteller suddenly on the nose?

It used to be the ewallet of choice - I used to get EXTRA bonuses for using it, not I can hardly get one anywhere if I use it

English Harbour don't accept it at all - amazing.

I just received the best bonus Ive had in years from one of my fav casinos - 100% up to $100 with only 1x (yes thats one) Deposit+Bonus wagering with bonus fully cashable. Ummm...yes thanks!

 

[vinylweatherman]

AFAIK the bonus was non cashable in an untraditional way. You got 50 and played it trough and the winnings derived from the wagering was withdrawable. Basically 50 worth of "free spins".

I don't see anything like this in the posted terms and conditions. It just said it had to be played, rather than withdrawn.

As we know, and have been told, where no SPECIFIC terms are written about something, the GENERAL terms apply, therefore since there was no mention of anything other than the bonus had to be wagered, the GENERAL bonus terms would govern HOW it was to be wagered, and by how much.

This 1x on LOTR was the RETROSPECTIVE change they made, and didn't tell players until AFTER they had qualified for, and played, the bonus.

So, WHY didn't they simply credit 50 free spins on LOTR for a £50 deposit like any SENSIBLE MGS casino would have done, it would not have caused such problems, the "spirit" would be irrelevant, and it would have ended up BETTER for the casino since the winnings derived from the free spins would have had to be wagered according to bonus account rules.

How are players expected to figure out it is an "untraditional" bonus unless the quirky nature of it is EXPLICITLY stated in the terms. NONE of the arguments presented so far by Ladbrokes match what was actually written in the terms. NO-ONE with the bonus still in their account can even check the updated terms, so there is not even any PROOF that an update even existed.

 

[Tengil]

I don't see anything like this in the posted terms and conditions. It just said it had to be played, rather than withdrawn.

As we know, and have been told, where no SPECIFIC terms are written about something, the GENERAL terms apply, therefore since there was no mention of anything other than the bonus had to be wagered, the GENERAL bonus terms would govern HOW it was to be wagered, and by how much.

This 1x on LOTR was the RETROSPECTIVE change they made, and didn't tell players until AFTER they had qualified for, and played, the bonus.

So, WHY didn't they simply credit 50 free spins on LOTR for a £50 deposit like any SENSIBLE MGS casino would have done, it would not have caused such problems, the "spirit" would be irrelevant, and it would have ended up BETTER for the casino since the winnings derived from the free spins would have had to be wagered according to bonus account rules.

How are players expected to figure out it is an "untraditional" bonus unless the quirky nature of it is EXPLICITLY stated in the terms. NONE of the arguments presented so far by Ladbrokes match what was actually written in the terms. NO-ONE with the bonus still in their account can even check the updated terms, so there is not even any PROOF that an update even existed.

Topoor corrected me on that. First it was wager 50 once on any game to convert it to cash. Later on it was changed that it only could be played on LOTR.

Edit: what confused me at first was this:
Please note: This bonus must be turned over once on the Lord of the Rings Slot in games before your winnings are withdrawable. Any customers found to be abusing the spirit of the promotion and wagering this bonus on any other game may be excluded from future Ladbrokes Games promotions and have their accounts suspended.

 

[Deeplay]

Was it in the T&C that you had to reach the WR on a single deposit and could not deposit more?

Nope no where , I did spot the 20xs for neteller deposits but "presumed" the 20xs was not set in stone . eg. if you doth manage to actually play through 20xs on your deposit before busting out you would still get the match bonus.

As I said I did get the bonus but why do they make it so damn hard ? Where is the risk in accepting neteller deposits. Far more secure in my view than cards for many reasons. Mad to think they would want me to chase actually trying to get a bonus by trying to play a deposit through 20xs.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Topoor corrected me on that. First it was wager 50 once on any game to convert it to cash. Later on it was changed that it only could be played on LOTR.
Edit: what confused me at first was this:
Please note: This bonus must be turned over once on the Lord of the Rings Slot in games before your winnings are withdrawable. Any customers found to be abusing the spirit of the promotion and wagering this bonus on any other game may be excluded from future Ladbrokes Games promotions and have their accounts suspended.

What difference does it make whether 1x on LOTR or 1x on Thunderstruck What have Laddies been smokin' THIS time that they are making such a MASSIVE "deal" over this.

Makes one wonder whether they have set LOTR to 10% RTP to eat up the bonus, and are miffed that players are "abusively" playing the 95% RTP games 1x through to keep £45.

If there is ANY "spirit", it is to play the bonus through 1x on a slot game - not that there is "any such animal", they should have SAID in the terms "bonus must be played 1x on LOTR before being withdrawn", but the fact is they DIDN'T, they SCREWED UP, and tried to RETROSPECTIVELY change the terms, accusing non-telepathic and non-clairvoyant players of being "abusive" for not reading their minds and realising they were expected to play LOTR only, which they would be told by email in a day or two's time.


I think it is "abusive" to make players make 20x MORE wagering just because they have used Neteller, rather than a card, to deposit £50. £50 is £50, however deposited, and once in the casino, the source is irrelevant. I bet any clever player could just as easily play "abusively" with £50 that was delivered by carrier pigeon as they could with £50 that came from Neteller. It's a point I made when they first brought this in. I also said that they would lose the RECREATIONAL Neteller players, because the "abusive" ones would simply change their deposit method, and carry on as before. Could Ladbrokes now be suffering the consequences of losing recreational players, but NOT their "advantage" players?

 

[Seventh777]

What difference does it make whether 1x on LOTR or 1x on Thunderstruck What have Laddies been smokin' THIS time that they are making such a MASSIVE "deal" over this.

Makes one wonder whether they have set LOTR to 10% RTP to eat up the bonus, and are miffed that players are "abusively" playing the 95% RTP games 1x through to keep £45.

If there is ANY "spirit", it is to play the bonus through 1x on a slot game - not that there is "any such animal", they should have SAID in the terms "bonus must be played 1x on LOTR before being withdrawn", but the fact is they DIDN'T, they SCREWED UP, and tried to RETROSPECTIVELY change the terms, accusing non-telepathic and non-clairvoyant players of being "abusive" for not reading their minds and realising they were expected to play LOTR only, which they would be told by email in a day or two's time.


I think it is "abusive" to make players make 20x MORE wagering just because they have used Neteller, rather than a card, to deposit £50. £50 is £50, however deposited, and once in the casino, the source is irrelevant. I bet any clever player could just as easily play "abusively" with £50 that was delivered by carrier pigeon as they could with £50 that came from Neteller. It's a point I made when they first brought this in. I also said that they would lose the RECREATIONAL Neteller players, because the "abusive" ones would simply change their deposit method, and carry on as before. Could Ladbrokes now be suffering the consequences of losing recreational players, but NOT their "advantage" players?

If you live in the UK deposit via UKash and withdraw through their land based shops .

 

[vinylweatherman]

If you live in the UK deposit via UKash and withdraw through their land based shops .

Yet Ladbrokes don't see this as "abusive". Unfortunately, my "local" is a Corals. How do they "verify" the source and ownership of a UKash number entered online, how do they verify an over the counter cash withdrawal other that by "you have the right card, here's the money".

I also found UKash a REAL PAIN to buy when I investigated the method a while back. Of NINE local outlets showing as "get it here" on the Ukash site, only ONE actually managed to sell me a UKash voucher. Another didn't have a clue, and another tried, and tried, but just couldn't get it to work. The others just said "we don't do Ukash here", and one didn't even EXIST.

Given that we have Neteller and Moneybookers designed SPECIFICALLY for this industry, WHY should we have to try to hunt out these other obscure and "pain in the ass" deposit methods, we are not AMERICANS for goodness' sake Ladbrokes

 

[Seventh777]

Yet Ladbrokes don't see this as "abusive". Unfortunately, my "local" is a Corals. How do they "verify" the source and ownership of a UKash number entered online, how do they verify an over the counter cash withdrawal other that by "you have the right card, here's the money".

I also found UKash a REAL PAIN to buy when I investigated the method a while back. Of NINE local outlets showing as "get it here" on the Ukash site, only ONE actually managed to sell me a UKash voucher. Another didn't have a clue, and another tried, and tried, but just couldn't get it to work. The others just said "we don't do Ukash here", and one didn't even EXIST.

Given that we have Neteller and Moneybookers designed SPECIFICALLY for this industry, WHY should we have to try to hunt out these other obscure and "pain in the ass" deposit methods, we are not AMERICANS for goodness' sake Ladbrokes

Well, I was told to use this method when I rang them up recently during my Neteller yo-yo withdrawal experience, I asked them to stop the withdrawal if it bounced back again and i`ll go for their shop option, to which I was told I couldn`t do it as I had Neteller as my deposit method.

Go to Pay Point retailers and tell them to press e-vouchers and they`ll find Ukash in there, also make sure your voucher is 18+ these begin with 633718001, the withdrawal has nothing to do with Ukash bar the fact that you cannot withdraw using that method, so the withdrawal via one of their land based shops option opens .

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, I was told to use this method when I rang them up recently during my Neteller yo-yo withdrawal experience, I asked them to stop the withdrawal if it bounced back again and i`ll go for their shop option, to which I was told I couldn`t do it as I had Neteller as my deposit method.

Go to Pay Point retailers and tell them to press e-vouchers and they`ll find Ukash in there, also make sure your voucher is 18+ these begin with 633718001, the withdrawal has nothing to do with Ukash bar the fact that you cannot withdraw using that method, so the withdrawal via one of their land based shops option opens .

So, they trust UKash FAR more than they do the validity of a Neteller deposit. I would have expected UKash to be the most suspicious to them, making them insist on paying back by cheque.

Makes me wonder what the big SECRET is about Neteller, that has many casinos deeply suspicious of deposits made this way. Neteller carries out FAR more vetting than the local shopkeeper does when selling a UKash voucher.

 

[Deeplay]

So, they trust UKash FAR more than they do the validity of a Neteller deposit. I would have expected UKash to be the most suspicious to them, making them insist on paying back by cheque.

Makes me wonder what the big SECRET is about Neteller, that has many casinos deeply suspicious of deposits made this way. Neteller carries out FAR more vetting than the local shopkeeper does when selling a UKash voucher.

Maybe becuase of the fees that merchants have to pay on both deposits and withdraws to neteller. Higher I think that regular card fees. And Ladbrokes are tight as hell when It comes to any kind of promo or bonus that if they can save a few £££ they will. They state due to abuse and other factors Neteller deposits carry this "insane" playthrough for a bonus. It could just be simple maths, they want to encourage as many people as possible to find alternate deposit methods with lower transaction fees.

I could of course be wrong. Still only good thing they have going is they pay in 6 hours or less 24 / 7 and in fact aint ever missed a payout to me. But if they had more standard bonuses they would see a hell of alot more play from me.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Maybe becuase of the fees that merchants have to pay on both deposits and withdraws to neteller. Higher I think that regular card fees. And Ladbrokes are tight as hell when It comes to any kind of promo or bonus that if they can save a few £££ they will. They state due to abuse and other factors Neteller deposits carry this "insane" playthrough for a bonus. It could just be simple maths, they want to encourage as many people as possible to find alternate deposit methods with lower transaction fees.

I could of course be wrong. Still only good thing they have going is they pay in 6 hours or less 24 / 7 and in fact aint ever missed a payout to me. But if they had more standard bonuses they would see a hell of alot more play from me.

High fees might carry some weight, but claiming that £50 from Neteller can be "abused", yet £50 from a credit card simply CANNOT be "abused" is bullshit.

How come Neteller can get away with this, and why are other casinos positively encouraging Neteller over all other methods. Some give a regular 15% bonus just for depositing with Neteller, and this is on top of any bonus offered for that deposit.

Ladbrokes themselves are partly responsible, because they BANNED the use of the sports purse as a holding area for money, and stated that players were required to make a fresh £50 deposit every day during their daily promotions, rather than making £50 internal transfers from a cache of money in the sportsbook purse. This has probably lead to players making daily WITHDRAWALS after playing their £50 through once, but if Ladbrokes had allowed to sports purse to be used, this would NOT be happening.

Players using cards can ALSO do the same, deposit £50 each day, and withdraw the leftovers each day. This may cost them less in fees, but they CHOSE to make this rule in the first place, since 3 years ago there was NO requirement to make fresh deposits if there was enough in the sports purse.

They could easily just drop the daily deposit requirement, and simply have a daily playthrough requirement. This would achieve the SAME level of profit from the house edge, but would mean far fewer small deposits and withdrawals.

 

[kamoon]

Ladbrokes does it again.

I got bonus banned from their promotions after taking part in their Burning Desire promotion at casino.

I was bonus banned after playing the reguired stake on the slot. They have not even credited the bonus yet to my account and still say I do not play in the spirit of the promotions They have lost control.

I will see if they credit the bonus to my account and report back.

 

[LaHutti]

Did anyone PAB this bs ?

 

[kamoon]

I will shortly make a PAB unless they pay the bonus to me. At the moment they are lying to me as hard as they can.

Unfortunately, we are unable to credit your account with the Burning
Desire Match as you have failed to meet the terms and conditions of the
offer.

I have copied the relevant condition below:

As a result of bonus abuse, deposits made using Neteller and
Moneybookers will be subject to a turnover requirement of 20 times the
actual deposit level for all promotions.

As you have moneybookers active on your account you would need to turn
your deposit over 20 times to receive this bonus, thus as you deposited
£77 you would need to turn over 1540 casino chips on the Burning desire
slot to meet the terms of the promotion. To view the terms of this bonus
please visit the following link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I made a deposit of 25€ and wagered it in the slot. A day after I made a deposit of 77€ to Sports account and placed a bet with it. They mix things up.

Also, not once in the past have customers had to wager their qualifying bets 20 times to receive the bonus It has been so that the bonus has to be wagered 20 times if deposit is made with Moneybookers but not the qualifying wagers.

Edit:

On the 13th of February you deposited €25, using Moneybookers, and
transferred these funds straight in to your casino account. You then
wagered €29 on our Burning Desire slot.

As stated in the terms and conditions of the promotion you are required
to wager Moneybookers deposits 20 times before you are eligible to
receive the bonus funds. As you have not met this requirement you have
not met the eligibility requirements on this occasion.

 

[Deeplay]

I will shortly make a PAB unless they pay the bonus to me. At the moment they are lying to me as hard as they can.





I made a deposit of 25€ and wagered it in the slot. A day after I made a deposit of 77€ to Sports account and placed a bet with it. They mix things up.

Also, not once in the past have customers had to wager their qualifying bets 20 times to receive the bonus It has been so that the bonus has to be wagered 20 times if deposit is made with Moneybookers but not the qualifying wagers.

Edit:

Sadly this is old news with Ladbrokes. I dont even bother to look at there promos now as all of them suck in one way or another. They also dont give a damn - I emailed a few times on on a few issues but replys are either days later or they never reply. One easy solution though I have pulled my deposits right back. Being as a big as they are in the bookmakers scene it seems they dont really have the time or desire to actually make there casino work as others do. !!

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's complete BULLSHIT. Now they are saying that ALL deposits have to be wagered 20x, not just the one used to claim the bonus. It is pretty impossible to wager a small deposit 20x on a slot in any case due to variance.

The idea is clearly to make it impossible to actually qualify for the bonus, yet not actually say so.

"bonus abuse" can happen on £25 coming from ANY deposit method, and they DON'T have this covered in the terms and conditions.

They are also AGAIN using "not in the spirt of" arguments against players, so they really DON'T belong on the accredited list.

ALL players getting this "in the spirit of" shafting should PAB. They should also PAB if the actual term is being used outside it's scope as written in order to deny payments or bonuses after the fact despite all qualifying conditions having been met.

According to Bryan, there is no such thing as "bonus abuse", only the terms of the offer as written. Claiming a LATER deposit to the SPORTSBOOK after the fact causes the initial qualification to be voided is BEYOND the scope of the special terms for Neteller and Moneybookers.

Ladbrokes are trying to get away with MISLEADING ADVERTISING by making a "too good to be true" offer VERY difficult to actually qualify for, and further, it seems they decide who they DON'T want to pay, and THEN argue the case by interpreting the terms to fit their desire not to pay.

 

[Deeplay]

Well the 1 time they did actually credit a bonus after i complained about not getting it as it was impossible to wager my inital deposit 20times due to the fact i lost to quickly was after I had not cashed out in a while.

All other bonus offers which I took up were rejected even after I emailed them becuase I had not met the "20 times play through" on the inital deposit. And no doubt due to the fact I had a few cashouts during those times.

I cant be arsed to PAB and Ladbrokes support as of late is about as bad as it gets. Funny I got a reply to an email I sent in 8 days ago about withdraw options. The reply arrived in my mail box today. It would have actually been quicker if they had written the reply and sent it by second class mail to my home address.

So I had another solution to the problem -

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well the 1 time they did actually credit a bonus after i complained about not getting it as it was impossible to wager my inital deposit 20times due to the fact i lost to quickly was after I had not cashed out in a while.

All other bonus offers which I took up were rejected even after I emailed them becuase I had not met the "20 times play through" on the inital deposit. And no doubt due to the fact I had a few cashouts during those times.

I cant be arsed to PAB and Ladbrokes support as of late is about as bad as it gets. Funny I got a reply to an email I sent in 8 days ago about withdraw options. The reply arrived in my mail box today. It would have actually been quicker if they had written the reply and sent it by second class mail to my home address.

So I had another solution to the problem -

I used that solution 2 years ago

 

[Deeplay]

LOL Lads are at it again. Promo email just recived offering me a 100% bonus up to £100 if I play any slots then with a link to "click here and claim" then of course all the terms and cons and the part about neteller needing to be turned over 20 times (they are kind in that without neteller you only need to turn over your coin 1 time just to get the friggin bonus)

So If I deposit 100 I then have to gamble on the fact that I might be able to play through 2000 quid on slots just to have my 100 bonus credited. What a joke. The email is 100% misleading and should actually say somthing like "Take a gamble to get a 100% bonus if you manage to turn over your deposit x amount of times .... blah blah"

But as my earlier post says its no sweat for me as they already removed will have to remember to unsubscribe from there newsletters. And also the fact I have a few offers already lined up from other MG casinos which are not misleading in the way the Ladbrokes promos are.

 

[vinylweatherman]

LOL Lads are at it again. Promo email just recived offering me a 100% bonus up to £100 if I play any slots then with a link to "click here and claim" then of course all the terms and cons and the part about neteller needing to be turned over 20 times (they are kind in that without neteller you only need to turn over your coin 1 time just to get the friggin bonus)

So If I deposit 100 I then have to gamble on the fact that I might be able to play through 2000 quid on slots just to have my 100 bonus credited. What a joke. The email is 100% misleading and should actually say somthing like "Take a gamble to get a 100% bonus if you manage to turn over your deposit x amount of times .... blah blah"

But as my earlier post says its no sweat for me as they already removed will have to remember to unsubscribe from there newsletters. And also the fact I have a few offers already lined up from other MG casinos which are not misleading in the way the Ladbrokes promos are.

Nip down the shops to get a £100 UKash voucher, and see if they pay up, or invent a different excuse as to why you didn't qualify.

They must be losing players over not only this rule, but the bad publicity it is generating now that they are being so "bloody minded" about enforcing it even BEYOND the terms by saying that even SEPARATE deposits in the SPORTSBOOK count towards the 20x requirement, and NOT just the deposit used to attempt to qualify for the bonus.

What next, all PAST deposits EVER having to be wagered 20x before any new deposits even have a chance.

This is really DISHONEST of them, because what they are TRYING to do is to BAN Neteller players from having the bonus, but they will not say so, but would rather make it impossible for them to qualify, but still want them to TRY, and when they inevitably fail, they have made a 100% profit on the deposit WITHOUT having to give out the bonus.

Other casinos at least come straight out with it and say Neteller deposits just don't qualify.

Oddly enough, I saved myself a HUGE problem by uninstalling Rushmore shortly after they introduced this type of anti-Neteller term, and so avoided BOTH later incidents of delayed payments.

 

[Deeplay]

Oddly enough, I saved myself a HUGE problem by uninstalling Rushmore shortly after they introduced this type of anti-Neteller term, and so avoided BOTH later incidents of delayed payments.

Yep perfect solution to the problems listed! I sense that a software switch is in the offing for Ladbrokes as they have confirmed they will not be adding any further new games. Maybe this is why they dont give a damn hoping that a new skin will entice players back ? I wont be one of em though!

 

[petro]

Ladbrokes and Betfair seem to have the same policy when it comes to their bonuses.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yep perfect solution to the problems listed! I sense that a software switch is in the offing for Ladbrokes as they have confirmed they will not be adding any further new games. Maybe this is why they dont give a damn hoping that a new skin will entice players back ? I wont be one of em though!

Ladbrokes have bought Cassava, any guesses what software they are going to switch to

I recall Cassava hate Neteller players too, so the switch is no improvement. Further, Ladbrokes may become "just another white label", and so NOT covered by the recent accreditation of the two parent Cassava casinos.

A Neteller/Moneybookers hating policy could soon create problems for operators, since in their review of gambling, and increased problems, one measure under consideration is banning the use of CREDIT for gambling, which will shut down the use of VISA and Mastercard, the two main alternatives to Neteller and Moneybookers.
Other options exist, such as UKash, and maybe prepaid cards, but who is going to pay the commissions for using a prepaid card when Neteller costs them NOTHING, and it is the CASINO that won't let them use it.
Most likely, the loss of credit cards will mean MORE players switching to the eWallets, and they will probably seek out casinos that REWARD their use, rather than PUNISH it.

A simple example. Ladbrokes, wager deposit 20x to get bonus, and you CANNOT "top-up" with more funds if you go bust, as these too have to be wagered 20x.
Casino UK (Vegas Partner Lounge). Ongoing 15% EXTRA bonus PURELY for using Neteller, and this is ON TOP of anything else being offered. ALL subject to their STANDARD bonus rules.

Now, where is the SENSIBLE player going to go for their "Microgaming fix"?

 

[GrandMaster]

A Neteller/Moneybookers hating policy could soon create problems for operators, since in their review of gambling, and increased problems, one measure under consideration is banning the use of CREDIT for gambling, which will shut down the use of VISA and Mastercard, the two main alternatives to Neteller and Moneybookers.
Other options exist, such as UKash, and maybe prepaid cards, but who is going to pay the commissions for using a prepaid card when Neteller costs them NOTHING, and it is the CASINO that won't let them use it.

Don't forget debit cards.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Don't forget debit cards.

I find debit cards LESS able to put through gambling transactions than CREDIT cards.

I had three debit cards, two VISA debit, and BOTH kept on getting rejected by the bank for deposits over £100 to £200. My CREDIT cards however, quite happily allowed much larger volumes through.

The loss of credit cards would leave me with debit cards that would only work with small deposits, and these problems even happened when there was more than enough money in the bank.

Banks may tighten debit cards too, as it would be possible to gamble on credit with them by getting a personal loan, and having it placed in the bank, or even using a bank overdraft. Given how hard it would be for an individual bank to figure out whether an account balance came from a loan, they may decide to lock down debit cards as well as credit cards, for fear that allowing a customer to gamble their way through a loan via a debit card would make them liable to reimburse the money for failing to prevent it.

Until the government makes a decision, we don't yet know how deposit options from the UK will be affected, but we would probably lose the "free for all" that regulation, and the allowing of offshore operators, created within the UK market.

It's remiss of the industry to have not kept up with developments, as had they seen this coming (increase in problem gambers eventually prompting government intervention), they could have acted to PREVENT any "trigger point" for government action from being reached.

 

[GrandMaster]

I find debit cards LESS able to put through gambling transactions than CREDIT cards.

I had three debit cards, two VISA debit, and BOTH kept on getting rejected by the bank for deposits over £100 to £200. My CREDIT cards however, quite happily allowed much larger volumes through.

I have two debit cards that I use for gambling and they work fine. I stopped using credit cards because more and more of them treat gambling transactions as cash advances and withdrawals to credit cards have always been a problem.

 

[daywalker]

I find debit cards LESS able to put through gambling transactions than CREDIT cards.

I had three debit cards, two VISA debit, and BOTH kept on getting rejected by the bank for deposits over £100 to £200. My CREDIT cards however, quite happily allowed much larger volumes through.

The loss of credit cards would leave me with debit cards that would only work with small deposits, and these problems even happened when there was more than enough money in the bank.

Banks may tighten debit cards too, as it would be possible to gamble on credit with them by getting a personal loan, and having it placed in the bank, or even using a bank overdraft. Given how hard it would be for an individual bank to figure out whether an account balance came from a loan, they may decide to lock down debit cards as well as credit cards, for fear that allowing a customer to gamble their way through a loan via a debit card would make them liable to reimburse the money for failing to prevent it.

Until the government makes a decision, we don't yet know how deposit options from the UK will be affected, but we would probably lose the "free for all" that regulation, and the allowing of offshore operators, created within the UK market.

It's remiss of the industry to have not kept up with developments, as had they seen this coming (increase in problem gambers eventually prompting government intervention), they could have acted to PREVENT any "trigger point" for government action from being reached.

For debit cards most have fraud prevention in place so gambling transactions can get flagged. I've had to make calls to my bank about the affected cards and they lift the restriction and then there's no (or very few problems) after that. Some banks are different but once you've called them there not many that will stop a £100/£200 transaction.

If you reply please try and use one word instead of ten to explain

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have two debit cards that I use for gambling and they work fine. I stopped using credit cards because more and more of them treat gambling transactions as cash advances and withdrawals to credit cards have always been a problem.

All but ONE of my credit cards has done this, and I am sure this last one will eventually follow the herd, and I will have to stop using it, or face paying MASSIVE fees and interest charges.

For debit cards most have fraud prevention in place so gambling transactions can get flagged. I've had to make calls to my bank about the affected cards and they lift the restriction and then there's no (or very few problems) after that. Some banks are different but once you've called them there not many that will stop a £100/£200 transaction.

If you reply please try and use one word instead of ten to explain

Unfortunately, I have REPEATEDLY phoned my bank, but they have always said they can ONLY clear the transaction affected, and I have to phone them each time another one gets rejected. There was no option to permanently configure my account to "whitelist" these transactions.
It was more trouble than it was worth, and I got rid of the card.

I have NEVER had a Mastercard work, credit OR debit, even for very small transactions.

I have never had problems with withdrawals from card deposits, they either go back to the card, or go to Neteller, but I get it in the end.

Prepaid cards would probably work better, but then there are all the different fees, loading, transaction, withdrawal, etc. It ends up even MORE expensive in theory than using a cash advance from a credit card.


The problem is that the UK government want to shut down the credit card option, but casinos want to shut out the eWallet option. This leaves a string of deposit options shut out by one side or the other, and the remaining options are not so user friendly, cost far more, and lack the abilty to be used to receive withdrawals.

The remaining option requires players to lodge their BANK details with the casino, and use the direct debit system for deposits (which will also work for withdrawals). Given what Betfair did with such information from an over trusting player, this is NOT the level of access an offshore casino should have to our money.

If you reply please try and use one word instead of ten to explain

Why ten, when a hundred will do

As for ONE word to sum up this whole affair:-

BOLLOCKS!

 

[daywalker]

Why ten, when a hundred will do

As for ONE word to sum up this whole affair:-

BOLLOCKS!

 

[vinylweatherman]