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Ladbrokes Games - LOTR Slot - wager £50 for £50 Bonus

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by kamoon, Jan 21, 2011.

    Jan 21, 2011
  1. kamoon

    kamoon Dormant account

    Occupation:
    None
    Location:
    Europe
    Ladbrokes did everything wrong here.

    Original terms You must register/login in order to see the link.

    -They changed the terms during the promotion and retrospectively applied them to all players.
    -Some were denied the bonus after customer had wagered the £50 required and only after that were told they were bonus banned.
    -Some had their balance deducted by the amount of the bonus after they had wagered it within the original terms. Payout was also denied and he got bonus banned from future promotions.
    -Before the end of the promotion period the game could not be played because of a "technical problem". However, Demo play worked fine.

    An excerpt of email received after they had credited the bonus (which was delayed because of technical problems):

    Please note: This bonus must be turned over once on the Lord of the Rings Slot in games before your winnings are withdrawable. Any customers found to be abusing the spirit of the promotion and wagering this bonus on any other game may be excluded from future Ladbrokes Games promotions and have their accounts suspended.
     
  2. Jan 21, 2011
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    PAB - no such animal as "spirit of the bonus" according to CM.

    How can one "abuse" such an offer simply by playing a different slot game.

    I am beginning to wonder whether 888.com took over Ladbrokes, rather than the other way around - this is the kind of BS 888.com would come out with.

    Provided the terms AS PUBLISHED were obeyed, they have to pay out. "Doing a Betfair" because they screwed up the offer is NOT acceptable.
     
  4. Jan 21, 2011
  5. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Lads are crap when it comes to most bonus offers! Other week I took up a £100 slots match bonus. Made the deposit knowing it will take up to 48 hours for the bonus to be credited. Lost the 100. 2 days later still no bonus. Emailed support asking where be ? and they did reply saying I had to turn over my deposit 20 times before I would be eligable for the bonus as I made my deposit with Neteller! I pointed out that I did not manage to play 20 xs as I bust out real fast and my balence was at zero. In the end they did give me the 100 match bonus.

    However how mad is it that to get a bonus you have to wager 20xs because of making a deposit through a system (neteller) which already makes you go through a stack of security checks to get the account open in the first place! And then if you luck out not managing to turn over the money 20xs you dont get the bonus but they do get the deposit! A Gamble within a gamble.

    A Casino owned by the biggest UK bookmaker should do miles better than this. I wont even bother with any promos from them in the future and only deposit (small amounts) due to the fact they do have a fast cash out system. Other than that they do suck in some areas :mad:
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  6. Jan 22, 2011
  7. De Beuker

    De Beuker Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Production
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I found that out the hard way too, the neteller hatred.
    But it seems they have dropped the term that you have to be a UK or Singapore resident to be eligible for the bonus?
    Now you must have selected English or Irish (isn't that the same?) as your default language? What a weird term.:confused:

    And the Spirit of the Promotion, is that the part of the promotion that goes to heaven when the promotion dies?
     
  8. Jan 22, 2011
  9. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jan 22, 2011
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    No, it's NOT the same at all. The original term restricted the offer to UK and Singapore residents. The new term is open to ANYBODY who is prepared to operate in the English language (or Irish). Given that English is a common second language taught in many schools, this means that almost anyone from any country who has been to school is now eligible for this bonus.

    If this really was £50 for wagering the deposit 1x, and cashable by wagering the bonus 1x, it is almost as +EV as the Betfair cock-up, and Ladbrokes stand to hand £45 on a plate to every player (on average) who took up this offer (£100 total wager, house takes £5 on average, player takes £45 of bonus + their original £50 deposit).


    As for the email:-

    I don't see anything about this in the PUBLISHED terms, in fact this is far more GENEROUS than the published terms, which say the bonus is for wagering, and since nothing is specified about this wagering, the general bonus terms would apply, which I believe is 30x the bonus, not 1x.

    Worst of all, they are using THIS:-


    Well, for starters - this was NOT in the published terms and conditions, this was sent by email "after the fact", and probably after many players had already played through the promotion.

    There is NO "abuse" either by playing, say, Hellboy as opposed to LOTR with a bonus, so even the SPIRIT is not abused in this way, let alone the RETROSPECTIVELY ALTERED terms sent to players by email.

    The "Neteller hatred thing" was at least stipulated in the PUBLISHED terms, so that players knew where they stood, and like me probably decided to uninstall Ladbrokes until this term got dropped.

    The "Neteller term" seems to be gone from THIS promo, but Ladbrokes will STAY off my PC now that they are using these "spirit of the bonus" terms to confiscate winnings and lock accounts.

    I also note that the link from the Accredited list has been "crippled" by Ladbrokes, as it now gives the page "this promotion no longer exists", which then later auto refreshes to the standard landing page.

    Ladbrokes have been known to be over generous in the past, but using "spirit of the bonus" clauses is NOT what is expected from an accredited casino, they should use SPECIFIC terms to curtail the generosity levels if it has started to cost them too much.
     
  12. Jan 22, 2011
  13. topoor

    topoor Banned User - Multiple banned forum accounts

    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    UK
    Ladbrokes have done this to me also. I have tried explaining to them that I qualified under different terms but they have told me that they have the right to change their terms whenever they like and however they like and if I didnt like it then tough.

    They also told me that they werent interested in casinomeisters view of spirit of the promotion when I mentioned they were an accredited casino here :what:

    I dont see much difference in this to the way Betfair have behaved and personally I think Ladbrokes should suffer the same fate.

    Its been a sad start to the New Year with two of the biggest names in gaming leaving fairness and decency behind them along with 2010.
     
  14. Jan 22, 2011
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Then PAB.

    This is the ONLY way to make Bryan and Max aware of this sudden change of attitude from Ladbrokes. I have SEEN them using "spirit of the bonus" in their terms and conditions, and your PAB will be case study of it's application.

    Retrospective application of changed terms to play completed BEFORE the change is also a big "no-no" under accreditation standards.

    This is even WORSE than Betfair, since this is NOT a screw-up costing MILLIONS as was the case with Betfair. Each player who "abused the spirit" of this offer trousered an average of £45 profit, as would be CLEARLY OBVIOUS from the maths at the outset before the promotion was even launched.


    ALL PLAYERS who have "spirit of the bonus" written to them in an email from Ladbrokes should PAB right away.

    Future offers should be checked for terms that are non-compliant with standards for accreditation.
     
  16. Jan 22, 2011
  17. topoor

    topoor Banned User - Multiple banned forum accounts

    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    UK
    They seem oblivious to the rights and wrongs of getting customers to deposit then changing rules and in fact state why they can do what they want!

    "We have investigated the issue further and can confirm that if you wish to receive the bonus of £50 for the Lord of the Rings offer, you need to agree to stake the bonus on Lord of the Rings Slot on You must register/login in order to see the link. .



    The amendment to the terms and conditions on 18th January made by our Marketing Team reflects this clearly and no exceptions will be made to any customer who wishes to claim and receive this bonus.



    Our promotions are purely for recreational purposes and our bonuses are designed to be played on our site to enhance customers existing play. On this occasion, due to a large amount of customers not taking part on this promotion in the spirit it was intended to, we were forced to amend the terms and conditions and restrict play solely on the above game.

    Please note point 13 & 14 of our terms and conditions:



    You must register/login in order to see the link.



    Our decision on this matter is final, however, if you wish to contact us again, please do not hesitate to do so.



    Kind regards,



    Ana Sowerby

    Promotions Team Manager

    Ladbrokes International Limited

    & Ladbrokes Sportsbook Limited Partnership"

    They refer to point 13 & 14 in every mail conversation I had with them:

    "Ladbrokes also reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of any promotion at any time. This can be seen in the terms and conditions of the Promotion under points 13 and 14."
     
  18. Jan 22, 2011
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That link is a "404" error. How can Ladbrokes expect players to be able to CHECK the facts of this.

    I really can't see what difference it makes WHICH game the bonus gets wagered 1x on after receipt, this will still be "abused" just as much.

    Just agree, and wager it the specified 1x on the game stated, and then withdraw, or have they made TWO retrospective changes, and changed the 1x quoted in the email to 30x.

    Seems they are backing off a bit already, and granting the bonus subject to agreeing to wager it 1x on LOTR. Go for it, makes no difference, still a £45 average +EV return to the player.

    Keep digging Ladbrokes;)
     
  20. Jan 23, 2011
  21. Seventh777

    Seventh777 RIP Roy

    Occupation:
    Builder, mainly renovations.
    Location:
    Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
    Let me get this straight... Ladbrokes changes the rules (which is clearly stated in their T&C`s), so now there is a massive x1 playthrough on the bonus!!!!! wow.

    A few aspects of Ladbrokes....

    1). When you have a decent payout, there is still a great chance you can deposit and have a good payout again (had 3 consecutive withdrawals lately).

    2). The one time I had a bad spell of deposits was during a 25% cashback bonus, which I received £80+ 100% cash back, turned this into more and withdrew.

    3). In comparison I have made numerous deposits at Dash, Nedplay, Golden Lounge, and on no more than 3-5 occasions have I managed to raise my balance above what I started with, in response to my many gripes at their CS agents I am duly replied to with `Sorry there`s nothing we can do/offer you atm` which roughly translated means `Whilst you are still way in the black with your deposits/withdrawal ratios at 32Red`.


    Go figure, ofc these sort of scenarios mean nothing when handing out awards etc:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  22. Jan 23, 2011
  23. topoor

    topoor Banned User - Multiple banned forum accounts

    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    UK
    There was always a "massive" 1x play through on the bonus - the issue is that ladbrokes changed the rules after players had qualified.

    It doesnt matter whether the changes are massive or minor, players should be able to trust a casino. Terms and conditions either matter or they dont. The amount of players on this forum that have lost out on big payouts due to not sticking to terms is rather large and for the rules no matter how trivial they may seem to suddenly not be enforceable because a casino decides they dont want them to be is completely unacceptable.

    The moment we allow a casino to have one set of rules for itself and another for a player is the day we should hand them our ATM cards and just let them take every cent we own.
     
  24. Jan 23, 2011
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's why you should PAB, as well as take their £45 by playing through 1x on LOTR just to humour them. It's NOT about getting paid, it is about pulling a "spirit of the bonus" stunt right under CM's nose, and thinking this, and retrospective changes to terms, is OK for an accredited casino.

    This needs to be nipped in the bud, and Ladbrokes told to write proper terms to start with, NOT resort to "spirit of the bonus" rules because they were too lazy to write a proper set of terms from the outset.

    From a PLAYERS' point of view, the "spirit" was obvious - to take the free £45 on offer:p
     
  26. Jan 23, 2011
  27. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Retroactive changes to terms is UNACCEPTABLE.

    I think you'll find CM agrees....and this is before we even GET to the spirit of the bonus nonsense.

    I used to think the spirit of the bonus was all that was left after losing it....
     
  28. Jan 23, 2011
  29. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    AFAIK the bonus was non cashable in an untraditional way. You got 50 and played it trough and the winnings derived from the wagering was withdrawable. Basically 50 worth of "free spins".
     
  30. Jan 23, 2011
  31. topoor

    topoor Banned User - Multiple banned forum accounts

    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    UK
    No, it was a £50 account credit that had to be wagered once on any game to be made withdrawable.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Jan 23, 2011
  33. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    For neteller deposits it was not 1x playthough but an insane 20x even before you get the bonus. Woe unto those who bust out before even being able to wager 20times there deposit. Hence it be a gamble on a gamble to even get the bonus. For some reason they let me have mine after I explained that when playing I could not get to 20x playthough as my balence went quickly to zero. :mad:
     
  34. Jan 23, 2011
  35. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Was it in the T&C that you had to reach the WR on a single deposit and could not deposit more?
     
  36. Jan 23, 2011
  37. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Why is Neteller suddenly on the nose?

    It used to be the ewallet of choice - I used to get EXTRA bonuses for using it, not I can hardly get one anywhere if I use it :mad:

    English Harbour don't accept it at all - amazing.

    I just received the best bonus Ive had in years from one of my fav casinos - 100% up to $100 with only 1x (yes thats one) Deposit+Bonus wagering with bonus fully cashable. Ummm...yes thanks!
     
  38. Jan 23, 2011
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I don't see anything like this in the posted terms and conditions. It just said it had to be played, rather than withdrawn.

    As we know, and have been told, where no SPECIFIC terms are written about something, the GENERAL terms apply, therefore since there was no mention of anything other than the bonus had to be wagered, the GENERAL bonus terms would govern HOW it was to be wagered, and by how much.

    This 1x on LOTR was the RETROSPECTIVE change they made, and didn't tell players until AFTER they had qualified for, and played, the bonus.

    So, WHY didn't they simply credit 50 free spins on LOTR for a £50 deposit like any SENSIBLE MGS casino would have done, it would not have caused such problems, the "spirit" would be irrelevant, and it would have ended up BETTER for the casino since the winnings derived from the free spins would have had to be wagered according to bonus account rules.

    How are players expected to figure out it is an "untraditional" bonus unless the quirky nature of it is EXPLICITLY stated in the terms. NONE of the arguments presented so far by Ladbrokes match what was actually written in the terms. NO-ONE with the bonus still in their account can even check the updated terms, so there is not even any PROOF that an update even existed.
     

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