KasinoKing's SlotBeater Strategy

[jetset]

He isnt attacking KKs system, he just tells how horribly bad it is. Actually it is the worst I have ever seen. But the best way would have been to take it up with the man himself.

And he usually tries to "promote" it or telling that you can succeed playing slots (leading to his site) when there is an opportunity, at least thats the impression I get. Having a disclaimer at the end doesnt change it. The best would be that he tossed the strategy where it belongs..

Personally I dont have a beef with KK. I think some of the info on his sites are good (and especially entertaining) and I have downloaded one casino from his link (the Kasinoking site). And getting rid of the strategy wouldnt probably affect the success or popularity of Slotbeaters.

Of course he is publicly attacking KK and his system/strategy.

And I believe that he's doing it primarily to again attract attention (very successfully this time around) and paint himself as some sort of purer-than-white industry guardian angel at the same time.

What I particularly don't like about this thread is the very calculated public nature of this attack without prior warning on a member of this forum, and the manner in which it has been carried out, nothwithstanding whether JHV's views on KK's personal strategy are valid or not.

That is, imo, cynical and disruptive. It is further compounded by a sly and not so subtle dig at the Casinomeister site which hosts us here, and a rather condescending attitude towards his fellow members.

I am actually in agreement with you regarding members who go too far in promoting themselves or their businesses in posting here, but I suspect that is exactly what JHV is himself trying to do despite his criticism of KK for the same thing.

 

[JHV]

Maybe you can post the proof on how KKs system fails so people can make up are own minds as to whether his system is flawed or not, at the moment we only have your word on it,
we are not all mathmatical geniuses but there are alot of intelegent people on this site that will know if what you say is true,

KK has always show that he has great ethics and morals when it comes down to promoting what he does and the way he does it, im sure if you can actually l prove his system is flawed then he would be the first to admit whether its wrong or not,

That's not actually true, zebedy. Whilst your loyalty / faith in KK is admirable, the simple fact is that people have explained the incredibly simple fact that his "strategy" is flawed to him in the past and he plays dumb and refuses to change it. Now, either he's really dumb - like really dumb - because the people who explained it to him used brilliant junior high school methodology and he still couldn't supposedly understand it.....or (and this is what I believe) he's just playing dumb and knows full well it's flawed and wants to keep it that way.

Either way, you're taking advice off someone who is:

a) unethical enough to intentionally trick you with sub-optimal / flawed strategy

b) not intelligent enough to understand junior high mathematics

So good luck with that if you wish to keep going with the system.

But he shouldn't be allowed to pimp it out to unsuspecting newcomers under the guise of "wanting to assist them". He's not helping them, he's hurting them with that strategy.

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I'll break it down for you - it's very simple:

Given that what we want is the bonus rounds and that on average they occur once every 130 150 spins, what we do is start with small bets & then gradually increase them the longer we go on. This is on the basis that the longer we go without the feature hitting, the more probable it is.

So we play say 100 spins at our minimum (depending on the slot, the minimum is usually either 2c or 5c per line). Then we increase the bets in small increments every 25 or 50 spins e.g. 2c, 4c, 6c, 8c. If we get past say 250 300 spins with no feature, or the bank has dropped by more than our pre-set limit, we stop & try a different slot. Sometimes we alter the total bet by changing the number of win-lines as well as, or instead of just changing the stake/line. And thats pretty much all there is to it!

Not only is this one of the most stupid pieces of gambling-related writing actually available on the internet - it's so cutely and ironically *worse* for any player who follows it.

Of course, KK's strategy involves using bonuses. Ground-breaking stuff obv! But here's the cute thing - and this is *very* simple logic that clearly so many people (even guys that call themselves "TheGamblingGuru" aren't able to understand that the betting systems that children know are a fallacy such as the Martingale...are a fallacy - what kind of Guru are you RobWin? You're not a GamblingGuru - unless that nickname is tongue-in-cheek, like calling a giant "shorty" or w/e). The earth-shattering secret that junior high students understand yet like 3 people on this entire forum seem to be able to work out:

You only pay the House Advantage 'fine' on actual turnover wagered.

whoa whoa whoa! That's some cool conceptual stuff, isn't it. Really complex!

So when you're clearing a wagering requirement, would it be better to wager the absolute max....or better to wager the tiny minbets with tiny rises after 100 minbets, then starting at minbets again if the machine doesn't hit after 250-300 tiny bets (as KK advises)?

A GOLD STAR to the man (or lady) who was able to circumnavigate this complex dilemma. You Sir (or Ma'am) are correct! It would be the optimal line to wager the absolute max bet every single spin until you clear the WR or Bust.

Bonus Silver Star for anyone who can tell me what the WORST strategy would be? You Sir, in the leather jacket....very good! You are correct. The WORST strategy, which will lose you the most, is very close to what KK is advising - tiny bets, which expose you to greater Wagering Requirement, and greater House Advantage.

Sorry KasinoKing, you failed Grade 9 Maths. You'll have to repeat the Grade next year - yes, Summer School is compulsory. Sorry!

Is there anyone who doesn't understand what I've just explained - or who wants clarification? Feel free to ask - I'm not the greatest teacher in that concepts that are very clear in my head, I sometimes struggle to explain them simply and concisely.

No no no KasinoKing, don't try to slink out now. You don't get off *that* easy. This is not a simple maths mistake, my friend. You fail at logic in ways I have not seen Fail yet in a decade of this industry.

KasinoKing: "This is on the basis that the longer we go without the feature hitting, the more probable it is."

Wow. Go directly to Jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. And may God have mercy on your soul.

I could literally rip that entire trainwreck of a strategy guide apart - it's falsehoods, lies, deceit and pure madness almost from start to finish.

And if you think it's all an innocent mistake from a very uneducated man, I think you are being very insulting to KasinoKing. It's just that the alternative is not great either - that he's intentionally attempting to deceive vulnerable people. Bit like stealing from a blind man's coin tin, if you ask me.

You keep stating this as fact but yet you have miserably FAILED to prove a damn thing, why don't you actually try to prove your theory here if you are capable of actually doing that!

So prove to us all then that you do in fact have an IQ over 110, the last time I had mine tested it was 134 so I think I can hang with you here on this!

Of course you don't, why would you want to converse with someone that can match you wit for wit and at the same or greater intelligence level.

Log out buddy. Take a nap. You're really embarrassing yourself.

I don't get into fights with trolls, especially really uneducated trolls, because you can't win a fight with someone who's incapable of intelligent discourse. This isn't 1999 dude. People don't fall for obsessive trolling like you're attempting anymore - nap it out, big fella. You'll be glad you did when you return, trust me.

To me I think it's all pure luck.
If I had some type of strategy/system and I win win what am I doing here.
It's time to close this thread or prove the proof and move on.

Sorry BingoT - the world of professional gambling is far more complicated than the simple concepts I just explained above. The industry likes to sell the dream of easy money fast - but it's not a game for the faint-hearted. You need to be a world-class geek, then work like an insane obsessed workaholic to compete with those who want it just as bad, then you're in a mix.

I've done it.

I've succeeded.

I really screwed up that decision and lost my youth chasing a fallacy.

Enjoy life instead - money is only valuable to the point where you have enough so that you're not stressed and you can take care of yourself and your family and have a little fun. Everything after that....usually not worth the effort and sacrifices chasing.

Why settle for a surrogate and hypothetical conversation when you could - and still can - communicate directly with the person who's reputation and strategy you are so seriously attacking - thus far without producing concrete evidence - something that you seem to feel is beneath you?

Is there something that's stopping from KasinoKing defending himself? Is he in hospital or otherwise indisposed. Stop being ridiculous please. A number of people have told me they've broached the subject with him and he acts dumb and refuses to change the horribly bad and deceitful SlotBuster strategy article.

What possible good could come from my approaching him privately? Answer my question - I've already asked it of you and others before. You all repeat the same tripe over and over like well-trained little shills whilst the mods ignore my polite questions about why this has been moved to "Off-Topic".

Why am I now not thrilled about having you guys around my places? Frankly, because you appear malicious. You provide no logical arguments that make sense, you don't address the issues at hand, you attack me when I've done nothing to provoke you, you are all attempting the oldest (most pathetic) strategy in the book - it's called 'deflection'. It won't work. Stop trying to tilt me until I'm 50% as rude to you as you've all been to me - at which point, no doubt I'll get banned and the Circus of Scam rolls on.

Obviously, I'm copying all of this by the way. You're all assisting me in creating the greatest indictment one could possibly hope for when setting out to prove a valid point. It's just that getting that proof makes me sad. No there is certainly no celebrating on my part.

I'm going leave it here for awhile pending reply from KasinoKing.

If he's too ashamed to show his face and defend himself, well....sweet sassy molassey...that will (*should*) be pretty embarrassing for him.

 

[Webzcas]

As far as I am aware I have not seen KK online at all today and I have been pretty much online for near 10 hours or so.

I personally find this attack on KK's site and him as a member of this community whilst he is not here to defend himself distateful.

I suggest before posting again JHV, you at least give KK a chance to address your numerous posts which not only attack his site but also KK the person behind the site. Unless of course you want to post the url to your own site. You know the saying: 'People who live in glass houses.....'

 

[JHV]

What I particularly don't like about this thread is the very calculated public nature of this attack without prior warning on a member of this forum, and the manner in which it has been carried out, nothwithstanding whether JHV's views on KK's personal strategy are valid or not.

I am actually in agreement with you regarding members who go too far in promoting themselves or their businesses in posting here, but I suspect that is exactly what JHV is himself trying to do despite his criticism of KK for the same thing.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I said I broached the subject with Bryan a month ago and Bryan said he would not dictate what I could or could not bring to discussion; he just requested that I do it cordially.

Now what's frustrating here, is that as I clearly pointed out to Bryan, I was very close to the only cordial and calm person in the entire thread (with a couple other posters). Yet posters on every page were launching unprovoked attacks. When I pointed this out to Bryan, everyone went silent and my thread got moved to Off-Topic. Feel free to go back and have a read....

I also clearly stated multiple times that I PM'ed Bryan and that Bryan said he'd deal with it and that he'd deleted the link. Believing the link was gone, I saw no reason to pursue KK for past crimes. If I wanted attention, why would I have done all this private stuff with Bryan PM's back and forth? And what possible reason could I desire attention for - to what end?

I'm not a shill. I don't even want to give my URLs as you don't appear to be customers, in any way at all. I'm advertising nothing - simply pointing out a gross lie being allowed to be shilled all over the forum by a "well-respected industry member".

I have an anonymous alias. Where is my motivation for seeking attention, friend? Nothing to sell, nothing to shill, nothing to pimp out, no chance of financial gain, not even trying to build a brand of any kind - answer my questions please?

Don't think your old strategy of harassing the whistle-blower will work here either. If Bryan wants to ban me, he will. But I'm not going to give him reason to, by biting back at these dozens of baiting attempts from this group who really really care about making money - and don't like to see anyone speak truth, do you?

 

[yoshirules]

I'm going leave it here for awhile pending reply from KasinoKing.

If he's too ashamed to show his face and defend himself, well....sweet sassy molassey...that will (*should*) be pretty embarrassing for him. [/B]

The last sentence proofs that you dont understand why people are flaming you.
Its not about the strategy of KK, its about how you are dissing a fellow member.
And I dont like it..............

 

[JHV]

As far as I am aware I have not seen KK online at all today and I have been pretty much online for near 10 hours or so.

I personally find this attack on KK's site and him as a member of this community whilst he is not here to defend himself distateful.

I suggest before posting again JHV, you at least give KK a chance to address your numerous posts which not only attack his site but also KK the person behind the site. Unless of course you want to post the url to your own site. You know the saying: 'People who live in glass houses.....'

The obsession you all have with wanting to look at my sites is starting to creep me out, to be honest. I had no problem initially with that, was actually about to link them but wanted to PM Bryan or Max first to check that it was ok - in the meantime, numerous posters almost started frothing at the mouth wanting to get a look at these sites.

It's downright creepy. And no, I'm not comfortable with it anymore. None of you are poker players, so I don't really see the point. And very few, if any, of you will even understand the advanced strategy being discussed there. It makes this stuff here look like basic arithmetic. No thanks - unless you can give me some better reasons why you're all so obsessed, I'll pass.

KasinoKing is pimping out his flawed martingale (but worse) system here. I think we can address that without all you poring over my sites tying up my CS or worse - for no gain that I can see.

Yes, I will wait for KasinoKing to come respond for himself. Speak to you all soon.

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Oh Webzcas, can you please explain why this thread has been deemed to be Off-Topic? I don't understand why everyone is avoiding that simple question.

 

[classymom]

I'm not going to read another post in this thread until K K can defend himself on this. I have always given K K the benefit that his strategy works and I believe for him it does. I don't like the way JV is calling him a fraud over and over again IMO it is just wrong

 

[jetset]

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I said I broached the subject with Bryan a month ago and Bryan said he would not dictate what I could or could not bring to discussion; he just requested that I do it cordially.

Now what's frustrating here, is that as I clearly pointed out to Bryan, I was very close to the only cordial and calm person in the entire thread (with a couple other posters). Yet posters on every page were launching unprovoked attacks. When I pointed this out to Bryan, everyone went silent and my thread got moved to Off-Topic. Feel free to go back and have a read....

I also clearly stated multiple times that I PM'ed Bryan and that Bryan said he'd deal with it and that he'd deleted the link. Believing the link was gone, I saw no reason to pursue KK for past crimes. If I wanted attention, why would I have done all this private stuff with Bryan PM's back and forth? And what possible reason could I desire attention for - to what end?

I'm not a shill. I don't even want to give my URLs as you don't appear to be customers, in any way at all. I'm advertising nothing - simply pointing out a gross lie being allowed to be shilled all over the forum by a "well-respected industry member".

I have an anonymous alias. Where is my motivation for seeking attention, friend? Nothing to sell, nothing to shill, nothing to pimp out, no chance of financial gain, not even trying to build a brand of any kind - answer my questions please?

Don't think your old strategy of harassing the whistle-blower will work here either. If Bryan wants to ban me, he will. But I'm not going to give him reason to, by biting back at these dozens of baiting attempts from this group who really really care about making money - and don't like to see anyone speak truth, do you?

Actually, the more you rant on, the more I perceive you to be desperate for personal attention - and not necessarily in a positive sense. I think perhaps you also have a real need to appear cleverer and generally superior to everyone around you. But that's just a layman's opinion.

Unfortunately, you don't appear to fall into that category despite the big attitude.

I think it's more a personal need than a shill thing - it's all about your ego.

And I'm not about to pander to it any longer - let's see what KK has to say, seeing as he is your primary target.

 

[KasinoKing]

WOW! Pop out for a few hours and see what happens!

For those interested I was taking someone to the airport today, I only just got home & saw this thread.
I have not seen any personal communication from JHV up to this point.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and my only objection is being called a liar and the accusation that I am deliberately trying to encourage people to lose. This is especially nauseous coming from someone who admits he hasn't actually tried the system himself.

My site just details the method I use which has worked for me for the last 5 years. It doesn't work every time, but overall I am well ahead. Not by fortunes, but a pretty good monthly average.
I have 100s of logs showing my successes and failures which I am happy to provide to anyone here at any time.
I do not claim that it is some magical +EV 'bonus abusing' system which guarantees anyone will profit long term, so you can take it or leave it.

Personally I believe that something with a mathematical probability of occurring 1 in a 100 times will in fact occur 1 in 100 times in the long run. You can believe that or not - your prerogative.

I am not going to get drawn into any massive argument or flaming war on this. If someone can prove that my personal strategy does not work, that I have not really made profits most months for the last 8 years and that this is in fact just one very long dream, I will be all ears!

KK

PS: Many thanks to all those who spoke out in my defense during my absence! :notworthy

 

[gambblex]

GSOS,guys!

 

[slotheadlizard]

Your Site

"The obsession you all have with wanting to look at my sites is starting to creep me out, to be honest. I had no problem initially with that, was actually about to link them but wanted to PM Bryan or Max first to check that it was ok - in the meantime, numerous posters almost started frothing at the mouth wanting to get a look at these sites.

It's downright creepy. And no, I'm not comfortable with it anymore. None of you are poker players, so I don't really see the point. And very few, if any, of you will even understand the advanced strategy being discussed there. It makes this stuff here look like basic arithmetic. No thanks - unless you can give me some better reasons why you're all so obsessed, I'll pass."

I think the obsession you think we have is all in your head. I think people are just curious to see it because you use it as an example of how things should be discussed in a gambling forum. OK, fine, but we are not going to just take your word for it. You have given evidence to support your argument, we can just visit the site (KKs)

In the second paragraph, you are just calling slot players dumb. How do you know there are no poker players reading this thread? How do you know there are no exclusive slot players with advanced degrees, and might, just might understand. I know that's pushing it, but pretend for a minute some can keep up.

Not defending strategy or anything. I just deposit, push spin and hope for the best. I think his site is entertaining and informative. I would love to be informed by your site as well JHV. I'll have a thesaurus, and advanced math program right next to me while I explore.


*derail-What I find most shocking about the this whole thread is this: Rob has an IQ of 134 =)

 

[RobWin]

"

*derail-What I find most shocking about the this whole thread is this: Rob has an IQ of 134 =)

LOL Liz, why would you find that shocking? Because of my online personality here or something else?

There's a few on here with higher than that, I am sure...JHV is definitely not one of them though..
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[Webzcas]

*derail-What I find most shocking about the this whole thread is this: Rob has an IQ of 134 =)

I heard he bought it on ebay

 

[RobWin]

I heard he bought it on ebay

Damn Webzcas, I told you that in confidence bro and there you go telling everyone now..
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[The Dude]

My boldings...

Either way, you're taking advice off someone who is:

a) unethical enough to intentionally trick you with sub-optimal / flawed strategy

b) not intelligent enough to understand junior high mathematics

So good luck with that if you wish to keep going with the system.

But he shouldn't be allowed to pimp it out to unsuspecting newcomers under the guise of "wanting to assist them". He's not helping them, he's hurting them with that strategy.

... But here's the cute thing - and this is *very* simple logic that clearly so many people (even guys that call themselves "TheGamblingGuru" aren't able to understand that the betting systems that children know are a fallacy such as the Martingale...are a fallacy - what kind of Guru are you RobWin? You're not a GamblingGuru - unless that nickname is tongue-in-cheek, like calling a giant "shorty" or w/e). The earth-shattering secret that junior high students understand yet like 3 people on this entire forum seem to be able to work out...

Sorry KasinoKing, you failed Grade 9 Maths. You'll have to repeat the Grade next year - yes, Summer School is compulsory. Sorry!

...

No no no KasinoKing, don't try to slink out now. You don't get off *that* easy. This is not a simple maths mistake, my friend. You fail at logic in ways I have not seen Fail yet in a decade of this industry.


I could literally rip that entire trainwreck of a strategy guide apart - it's falsehoods, lies, deceit and pure madness almost from start to finish.

And if you think it's all an innocent mistake from a very uneducated man, I think you are being very insulting to KasinoKing. It's just that the alternative is not great either - that he's intentionally attempting to deceive vulnerable people. Bit like stealing from a blind man's coin tin, if you ask me.

I don't get into fights with trolls, especially really uneducated trolls, because you can't win a fight with someone who's incapable of intelligent discourse.
...
If Bryan wants to ban me, he will. But I'm not going to give him reason to, by biting back at these dozens of baiting attempts from this group who really really care about making money - and don't like to see anyone speak truth, do you?

You are incapable of following instructions and heeding warnings. My last comment in this thread was a last warning - insulting posts will not be tolerated. You've used up all your chances here. Bye.

I'm glad you have your own forum - so go knock yourself out.

Casinomeister's playground is now closed.

 

[The Dude]

As for every one else - feel free to debate whatever issues you feel are warranted discussion in this thread. The thread is not closed, only the Spielplatz is.

 

[big_mac]

I've never actually read KK's site before, and I can actually see why someone has a problem with it (and I was wondering how long we would have to wait before another 'explosion' from this particular source)

e.g.

This is on the basis that the longer we go without the feature hitting, the more probable it is.

Which, for random slots, just isn't true (and is the thinking behind progressive strategies in roulette etc.)

Although I don't agree with the reasoning behind it, increasing your bet size is good for other reasons. It's a good idea when you are low on balance because you won't want to withdraw with little or no profit - I'm sure that must scream 'bonus abuser' to the casinos - so you may as well bust-out hoping for a big win.

As has been discussed, playing large bets can actually increase the amount you expect to win overall (by decreasing average wagering) but leaves you open to more risk. I don't really see the advantage of a progressive strategy, other than psychologically (it's always more difficult to decrease your bet size than increase it, just in case you hit a big win).

In general, the approach of claiming bonuses and not taking too many risks is a perfectly reasonable way to make some money - but I would expect it to work just as well without the rest of the 'strategy'. Taking breaks and changing slots does absolutely nothing except make you feel like you did something.

Maybe following some sort of 'strategy' makes it more entertaining than just trying to collect on the bonus, as it least you can feel like you have some decisions to make.

I suppose that, if I had a complaint, it would be that describing it as a 'Winning Strategy' is just a bit too 'spammy' for my tastes (couldn't think of a better word!).

 

[4 of a kind]

This post is not to debate any persons playing strategy. Im predominately a video poker player (98%) when playing online casinos, and also have my own personal style and strategy of wagering. Just like anyone else, there are days I think I could take down a casino, and days Im thinking I better try something different. If someone and if only someone asked me about my strategy, I would be more then happy to discuss it with them.

In reference to KasinoKings slots-beater strategy advertised here, I agree that on paper and systems similar to this have been proven in the past by many professionals to be flawed in many ways. Its nothing more then a mini bet version of just another Martingale strategy.

From Wikipedia:
Originally, martingale referred to a class of betting strategies popular in 18th-century France. The name is not eponymous; and there is no Monsieur Martingale. The simplest of these strategies was designed for a game in which the gambler wins his stake if a coin comes up heads and loses it if the coin comes up tails. The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake. Since a gambler with infinite wealth will with probability 1 eventually flip heads, the Martingale betting strategy was seen as a sure thing by those who practiced it. Of course, none of these practitioners in fact possessed infinite wealth, and the exponential growth of the bets would eventually bankrupt those who choose to use the Martingale. It is widely believed that casinos instituted betting limits specifically to stop Martingale players, but in reality the assumptions behind the strategy are unsound. Players using the Martingale system do not have any long term mathematical advantage over any other betting system or even randomly placed bets.

With this being said I would like to add that a long time well respected slots expert like KasinoKing, would have thought better then to suggest this system on his professional web site, running the risk of ridicule, along with pissing off customers when it eventually fails.

If in fact this system worked for KasinoKing for eight consecutive years showing a profit every year with mini bets, it would appear that a group of high rollers able to simulate KasinoKings strategy should be able to break the banks of the casinos.

Also KasinoKing, if I requested to see your records showing eight years of profit, would I be viewing a personal database record, or actual play sessions from the different casinos?

I would suggest that if you want to advertise this system to potential customers, you should have them request it, and send them a personal e-mail with it, of course with your disclaimer.

 

[RobWin]

I suppose that, if I had a complaint, it would be that describing it as a 'Winning Strategy' is just a bit too 'spammy' for my tastes (couldn't think of a better word!).

KK, is well capable of speaking for himself here, but still big_mac, it is a "winning strategy" at least for KK and maybe even many more...who knows really. But the fact remains that this is how KK has won in the long run over time.

I also have too, as I have always been a "progressive bettor". Any casino that I have ever played at can attest to that. That also may not be the smartest move in many players eyes who like to play more conservative than I do. But the fact is, in my case anyway, that I have won my biggest jackpots by playing this way and I am also way up on the casinos over the past 13 years that I have been playing them online.

I agree with others too though that this style of betting is not for everyone, especially the faint of heart type gambler. But for some of us this betting pattern has worked and worked quite well to say the least.
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[chayton]

I have a different strategy than KK - especially with video slots. If my bankroll can handle it, I go into a game betting reasonably high and if it's not paying then I lower my bet. I find that a lot of times if I get a feature I'll get it on the first 10 spins or so. Of course my strategy sucks a lot of the time but occasionally I'll get lucky. Not often but once in awhile. Although if I'd been using my 'system' for eight years I'd be in the poorhouse, so I'd have to say that KK's system has worked a hell of a lot better for him than mine has for me.

But I digress, the point of the thread is not KK or his system but the OP's way of bringing it up and the insinuations he was throwing around. Although the guy was clever and his posts were sometimes entertaining, he was really kind of a dick - to be honest I quit reading most of his posts awhile ago because he was starting to annoy me. And I don't get annoyed easily.

I think it was JetSet who made a comment earlier in this thread that was spot on - about butter in one hand and a knife in the other. I always had the feeling that he assumed the rest of us were too stupid to see when we were being belittled or insulted.

Anyhoo, that's just my 2 cents. Thanks Bryan!

 

[bryand]

Damn. Where's the money shot? I just read through this entire thread and was ready to see the climax of this pissing contest since it appeared both contestants were finally online at the same time, but noooooooo - you had to disqualify one of the pissers

I have no opinion either way as to anyone's "winning strategy". I wanted to see a dialogue between them directly to (a) expose OP's obvious agenda beyond being a humble "whistleblower" and (b) better understand the math behind the squabble. How can OP's genius comprehend differential calculus but can't understand (or appreciate) rules of order? Or maybe.......

As for every one else - feel free to debate whatever issues you feel are warranted discussion in this thread. The thread is not closed, only the Spielplatz is.

 

[Nifty29]

Well JHV always had a way of personally insulting people in such a way that he could make it look like it was your fault - he gilded the lily better than Ive seen for a long time.

In one way, its kinda sad as he is obviously intelligent and most likely has a lot of valuable insight and experience when it comes to gambling of all kinds.

Trouble is, he made everyone feel like they should be on their knees with heads bowed whilst typing their replies to the grammatical embodiment of his superior intellect.

Personally, I was sick of hearing how much of a high roller he is and how much money he has made and how amazingly successful he is at everything he has done. I can do without people blowing their own trumpet all the time...I see enough of that at work.

I've done it.

I've succeeded.

I really screwed up that decision and lost my youth chasing a fallacy.

The above is probably a good insight into why he behaves like he does. What better target for taking out your own frustrations than other people??

Take that self-inflicted sadness and dont let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: moving thread

Hi all,

Glad to see we're back to being being level-headed - and able to debate this without condescension and belittlement.

Moved to Online Casino discussion forum since this is back on track.

 

[zebedy]

The way he came across he seems like a very intelligent person,I think he knew exactly what he was doing by this quote in his first post,

(Don't get up Max, I'll show myself to the door.)

Seems like he just went on one of his self confessed, self destructive fades
by attacking a member of good standing,

Back on topic

Myself i dont use never have used systems as everyhing ive read/heard tell me that they are a waste of time,but thats just me, each to his own
when i deposit i want to play as i want to play, its my money afterall,

If you look at vegasbums screenshots, his system seems to be to only to play a few paylines, and he says that works for him, i dont doubt it some nice SS, the same as KKs system works for him, i dont doubt that either,when we win we could all think that we have a system but at the end of the day its just gambling IMO your either lucky on that day or not,

If KK advertised something on his site like WIN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF $$ FROM MY SYSTEM then i probably would have a problem with that, but if im correct he has never said that so i dont see a problem,

 

[KasinoKing]

This is on the basis that the longer we go without the feature hitting, the more probable it is.

Which, for random slots, just isn't true (and is the thinking behind progressive strategies in roulette etc.)

Can you please explain why it isn't true?

I chose my words carefully, I said more probable, not more likely.
There is a big difference between probability and odds IMO.

Let's take the simplest example - the coin toss.
If you tossed a coin 10 times, the chances of getting 10 heads is 1 in 1024 right?
Therefore if you tossed that coin 1024 times the chances are you will see 10 heads in a row just once.
In any other sequence of 10 tosses from the remaining 1014 goes the probability is very high that a tail will interrupt any run of heads before you get to 10 in a row.

So the odds of getting 10 heads in a row is exactly the same in any 10 spins, but the probability of it happening is very, very low.

Also KasinoKing, if I requested to see your records showing eight years of profit, would I be viewing a personal database record, or actual play sessions from the different casinos?

I have Excel spreadsheets detailing all my slots sessions at most casinos (Except Cryptos and WagerWorks - no need as their logs are comprehensive).
Even though I am the first to admit I have not exactly strictly stuck to my strategy all the time, I am happy to publish any of these logs here on CM.
In fact, you can see a few of these by looking at my blogs here (link in header of post).

The thing to remember is I don't play just to try to extract the maximum value out of a bonus (I don't have the balls for that strategy!) - I play for the fun of gambling and the challenge of trying to meet the WR with a profit.
Bonuses give structure and targets to my gambling - as fully explained on the page in question.

I would suggest that if you want to advertise this system to potential customers, you should have them request it, and send them a personal e-mail with it, of course with your disclaimer.

Excuse me, I am not advertising to any customers.
In my signature is says "my strategy for beating them".
On the website it says "This page will introduce you to the methods that we have been using to make regular profit from playing online slot machines since 2004."
No-where do I say do X,Y,Z, and you will win N.

And I'm not selling anything either - all my information is free (as it always has been) and there aren't even any advertising banners for casinos anywhere on that strategy page.

Look everyone, I'm just sharing with anyone who is interested the methods which have worked consistently for me personally. Read it, laugh, take the piss, enjoy, try it or not - it's up to you. Makes no odds to me. But it is all my personal true experiences, so I'm not changing it for anyone.

KK

 

[Slotster!]

But it is all my personal true experiences, so I'm not changing it for anyone.

Amen to that.

The only thing that worries me about you KK - is the bet sizes on your 'Winner Screenshots' snaps seem to be creeping up

I remember the days when if you posted a screenshot with a bet size above 90p there was outcry; get you with your 2 plus.

Now stop making money with your 'self control' and so called 'money management' - it makes me SICK... YOU HEAR ME?.. SICK!

Why can't you just lose it all on a regular basis like the rest of us?

 

[big_mac]

I chose my words carefully, I said more probable, not more likely.
There is a big difference between probability and odds IMO.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, the terms Probability and Odds mean exactly the same thing, in that they both express the likelihood of some random event occurring, but the answers are expressed in different ways.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and I don't understand what you mean with your example, are you saying that if you head 10 heads in a row during the first 1024 goes that you are less likely to get another 10 heads in a row?

It reminds me of an old joke
'the odds of there being a bomb on a plane is a million to one.
the odds of there being two bombs on a plane is a trillion to one (a million times a million, for americans anyway).
So, just to be safe, I always take a bomb on with me!'

BTW, I am not disputing at all that it works, just trying to clarify things. If you're not interested in discussing it then I won't persue it.

 

[Nifty29]

Why can't you just lose it all on a regular basis like the rest of us?

I agree.

Could all casinos please turn the 'off' switch 'on' for KK's accounts immediately?

When we all think that he has lost enough to make us feel better, we will post back here and you can turn the 'off' switch 'off', or the 'on' switch 'on' , or the 'jammy git' switch 'on'



You're right though KK.....if were selling the strategy .i.e making it only available to those who pay and gaurantee the results then JHV might (and I stress might) have had a reason to have a bee in his bonnet. However, it was publicly available and NOT gauranteed so he really needs to get a life.

 

[Pulver]

Can you please explain why it isn't true?

I chose my words carefully, I said more probable, not more likely.
There is a big difference between probability and odds IMO.

KK

Sorry to say this, but that is just plain stupid and I suggest you take a course in basic mathematics if you don't understand this.

I very well beleive that you have been profiting from slot bonuses, even while betting low. This is because of the high bust-rate of slots. The irony of it all is that you would have made much more money if you had used big bet's. But I respect that you like low varriance gambling and that you do it for fun.

So, the only thing I hold against your "strategy" is your flawed mathematics about increasing your bet size after x amounts of spins. That is just plain wrong and missinformation, and I suggest you remove it from your "strategy".

 

[3Dice]

Hi KK,

I swore I wasn't getting involved in this one lol

Ok KK, the mistake you are making is the most basic one in the book. It's completely natural so don't feel to bad about it. The big major pitfall is that we as humans fail to appreciate our presence in time as an important factor here.

The odds that we will be seeing 10 heads in a row in our next 10 tosses is 1 in 1024.

The odds that we saw 10 heads in a row in our last 10 tosses is not 1 in 1024 . It's either 1 if we did, or 0 if we didn't.

If we use this in calculations the difference becomes apparent.

we will throw a coin 2 times. before we throw the odds of hitting two heads are 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/4.

after the first throw, the odds of hitting two heads have changed. If we hit a head the first coin it is

1 * 1/2 = 1/2

if we hit tail the first time it is

0 * 1/2 = 0.

Everything you see in the past happened, so it has a probability of 1. After you just hit the jackpot that only happens one in a million, its still probability 1 that it just happened .. cause it just did.

After you see 4 heads the probability for 5 heads is not 1 in 32 (1/(2*2*2*2*2)) but one in 2 (1/(2*1*1*1*1)).

In your reasoning, you take say 50 samples in the past that are unlucky, and 50 samples in the future that are undetermined. Then you say since I didn't hit in the first 50, and it hits on average every 100, I'm now more likely to hit in the next 50. Which is the equivalent of saying since the roulette just landed on red, and on average it has to land the same amount of times on red and black, it is now more likely to land on black. The slot is not more likely to hit in the next 50 and the roulette is not more likely to hit black since the odds of the past events are always simply 1 no mater how exceptionally rare they were.

In short, the OP and some of the other posters here are correct in saying that the strategy you outline on your website is (sensitively formulated) flawed. There's one good piece of advice there and that is always deposit with bonuses.

Apart from that it is by no means the most profitable strategy (play absolute maxbet on the highest variance game you find) - nor the least profitable one (play absolute min bet on the lowest variance game you find). It's just one of the many things 'inbetween' that one could do.

The reason you have consistently made a profit has nothing to do with your strategy. It has to do with the simple fact that if you calculate the following numbers :

X = total of KK own deposit.
Y = total of casino bonuses
Z = total stake on the slots

you made a profit because Z*0.05 < (X+Y) ..

And so the strategy that would be valid on the slotbeaters site is to keep Z as low as you can by maximizing bets and risk.

As a final note, I would like to add a little self-test here .. if you can answer the following question correctly, we both know that the explenation got through

Say I have a closed bag with in it two colored chips. One is red on two sides, and the other is green on one side and red on the other. I take one chip out of the bag and show you one side. You see red. What are the odds that I picked the chip with the green ?

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[big_mac]

Apart from that it is by no means the most profitable strategy (play absolute maxbet on the highest variance game you find) - nor the least profitable one (play absolute min bet on the lowest variance game you find).

While that is true, on average, many people won't play enough to see their results converge to the average.

And so the strategy that would be valid on the slotbeaters site is to keep Z as low as you can by maximizing bets and risk.

Only if you want a theoretically maximum return, but with the risk of losing money every month until you die on the day you finally hit a really big win!

Playing smaller bets at lower variance is more likely to see you consistently in profit - which is probably a far more reasonable aim for most people.

I don't really have a problem with the strategy, it's quite a reasonable and prudent approach, but I think that the reasoning behind it is a little suspect.

 

[Jasminebed]

Say I have a closed bag with in it two colored chips. One is red on two sides, and the other is green on one side and red on the other. I take one chip out of the bag and show you one side. You see red. What are the odds that I picked the chip with the green ?

Cheers,

Enzo

1/2...Now do I get a deposit bonus Enzo

Thanks a lot for that explanation.

I have to agree with a lot of posters that it is not more probable that you will hit something on the next spin, or hundred spins.

And the reason that high rollers are not breaking the bank with KK's strategy is that there are limits to the deposit bonuses.

KK only takes the most attractive ones, and doesn't win on every deposit.

Personally, I think that by not playing KK's strategy, or his own, JHV should have to pay KK big bucks for taking up this much time posting on this subject, and therefore avoiding another large loss playing on TILT.

 

[KasinoKing]

Say I have a closed bag with in it two colored chips. One is red on two sides, and the other is green on one side and red on the other. I take one chip out of the bag and show you one side. You see red. What are the odds that I picked the chip with the green ?

50/50.
Did I pass?

As a by-the-way, I actually got 84% in A-Level maths.
I don't know how that equates to other countries standards, but I do know that 2 + 2 = 5.


KK

 

[3Dice]

Sorry guys.

The answer is not 1/2. Any other guesses ?

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[Jasminebed]

Well, if we are bragging, I achieved 100 percent in all three math courses in my senior year.

And our provincial math competitions (only entered by math geeks) I was in the top ten percentile, and in the top one percentile for girls.

Just call me "Barbie"..."Math is hard"

 

[DiamondGeezer]

A most interesting thread!

I think JHV raises a very interesting concept - would an affiliate deliberately post up a flawed strategy so as to attract and keep a bigger player base? And certainly I have seen strategies on other affiliate sites that look highly dubious at best.

It is a shame JHV has ended up getting banned over this. Certainly in other forums I post in I have seen a lot worse. We're all big boys and all that. Yes the posts were strong but they were levelled at KK the Slotbusters affiliate, not KK the very helpful forum poster. My personal view is if you put yourself out there as an affiliate then you are going to get shot at more than a regular playing member. I hope the mods can take onboard all the excellent and insightful posts JHV had done and when the dust settles it would be good if he can come back. The guy is a very talented poster and as a player I know he is factually correct on a lot of issues.

Back to the question - Is KK peddling a lousy strategy that will gain him a portfolio of low rolling losers that will feed him a revenue stream month after month?

IMO it's not a question that is easy to answer yes or no to, so I think it is a very legitimate question to ask. I have had a quick look over the site and I would say overall it does present the strategy in a balanced way.

To summarise the KK strategy is a sub optimal way of playing with a bonus so that you have entertainment but also give yourself a chance of being a small net winner over the long run. I think the main issue JHV had was that he felt KK was presenting it as a winning strategy whereas in reality it is more of an entertainment strategy. I have to say I do agree with him on this and can see where a conflict of interest lies. I think if he header was changed from 'winning' to 'playing' it would be a fairer reflection of the strategy.

I personally believe KK is a very sincere guy but I am convinced he doesn't truly understand WHY his strategy does work. I think he knows from his returns that it does give small profits but I don't think he conceptually understands how it works. This is what JHV was explaining above.

As far as KK's strategy goes it is little more than breakeven - which is fine for entertainment purposes. If you stripped out the Ladbrokes results profits would be a lot lower. KK will point to all his records which I am sure are genuine. But really the records are not important as such as it would be possible to work out the thoeretical profit easily enough anyway. And I'm guessing now but it probably is not massively different from his actual results.

All in all there is a lot to be said for the KK strategy. It has many good things about it. KK is making profits and having a lot of fun in the process. He's actually done a lot of good for players by advocating this controlled method. I do however think that unless you have the maths to back it up then advertising a 'winning strategy' on the web is very dangerous. An individual players results are not maths.

So I think JHV did have a fair and legitimate argument. And also that KK is a sincere and genuine guy who is not trying to deliberately scam people.

 

[KasinoKing]

I have to agree with a lot of posters that it is not more probable that you will hit something on the next spin, or hundred spins.

The thing is Jaz, if a feature has a 1 in 100 chance of hitting, and you have just done 300 spins without it, you gotta admit you've been pretty unlucky, no?
Do another 100 and still nothing, you've been very unlucky.
Another 100, you've been very very unlucky.
And so on...

I suppose it depends on just how unlucky you think you can be!

KK

 

[slotheadlizard]

KK's math 2+2=5

Hmmmm, I'm gonna channel my fav. affy's intelligence and conclude that that's probably incorrect

 

[RobWin]

The odds that we will be seeing 10 heads in a row in our next 10 tosses is 1 in 1024.

*Sorry for the derail folks but I want to catch Enzo while he is here..

Those odds sound very familiar to me Enzo. I think those are also my odds of making a large cashout at 3Dice sometime this year...

Enzo, I have one for you here....

Assuming I make another deposit at 3Dice before the day is over, and also assuming my average deposit, my average bet, my play style and patterns and yes, one more mix into the equation, my cashout to deposit ratio.....what are the odds of me making a large cashout today at 3Dice?
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[Pulver]

Brainfart...

 

[KasinoKing]

Sorry guys.

The answer is not 1/2. Any other guesses ?

Yes it is. *

Now you're just getting silly.

(* Provided the "Pick" is totally blind and random)

 

[3Dice]

Assuming I make another deposit at 3Dice before the day is over, and also assuming my average deposit, my average bet, my play style and patterns and yes, one more mix into the equation, my cashout to deposit ratio.....what are the odds of me making a large cashout today at 3Dice?
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Well, your average wd to deposit ratio is 15.5, taking into account your betsize and estimatating your play behaviour will be average compared to your past play at 3Dice, the odds you will cash out are roughly 5.6%.

1\4

What do I win?

Nothing. its the wrong answer.

It's not 1/2 and not 1/4.

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya: The answer to the 3dice question is, "0". Because the RNG is cheating, and there is NO green side at all. ah hahahaha,.

And we all owe KK a big thanks, for taking the heat for the rest of us. What if JHV had tried ALL the different betting methods on the other affiliate sites, and all the betting methods some have posted on this site?

Good thing for me he was not a Roulette player......

 

[Jasminebed]

The thing is Jaz, if a feature has a 1 in 100 chance of hitting, and you have just done 300 spins without it, you gotta admit you've been pretty unlucky, no?
Do another 100 and still nothing, you've been very unlucky.
Another 100, you've been very very unlucky.
And so on...

I suppose it depends on just how unlucky you think you can be!

KK

KK, at times I have been very unlucky. At others, incredibly lucky. I often up my bets when winning...I have the bankroll to support it. As long as I lower them again (a strategy I have some problem implementing) while still ahead, I tend to do better.

I take few match bonuses nowadays. A modest hit is not tied into some really difficult WR. But I have had some very good wins following a decent hit because I was still tied into a WR and still playing.

KK, I'm not knocking your overall strategy at all. I just have a problem with that actual phrase.

I know that you have made profit from my play, and would still be making quite a bit more than you are currently from my deposits if I could still play Rival.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I appreciate the help you've given me in the past, and all the sound advice you offer players here.

 

[3Dice]

Yes it is. *

Now you're just getting silly.

(* Provided the "Pick" is totally blind and random)

I'm sorry KK. The pick is totally blind and random.

yet the answer is NOT 1/2.
and its NOT 1/4.

Cheers,

Enzo

 

[Pulver]

It is 1\3.

Stupid stupid reply from me the last time.

(If that is wrong aswell im gonna delete my user )

 

[3Dice]

It is 1\3.

Stupid stupid reply from me the last time.

(If that is wrong aswell im gonna delete my user )

Thank you !!!

Lemme know your 3Dice account# via pm and I'll give you a prize

Cheers,

Enzo


** to see why, put it like this .. I have 4 sides in my bag, 3 are red and 1 is green. I show you one side. its red, what is the chance that for any of the remaining sides to be green ?. one in three. Three sides left, one is green so one in three.

 

[Pulver]

Thank you !!!

Lemme know your 3Dice account# via pm and I'll give you a prize

Cheers,

Enzo


** to see why, put it like this .. I have 4 sides in my bag, 3 are red and 1 is green. I show you one side. its red, what is the chance that for any of the remaining sides to be green ?. one in three. Three sides left, one is green so one in three.

Hehe, I felt totally embarrassed after my last post, while reading DiamondGeezer's great post I asked myself what the fcuk I was thinking on when I wrote 1\4, went to edit it and you guys had already writte a whole new page of post's! LoL... To much activity in here

Anyways, I think I actually asked for my account beeing deleted some time last year when I lost around 1k without a feature, lol. No pun intended. But thanx anyway..

Btw. You should make a forum competition with assignments like this, they are fun, and will some times really mess with your head..

 

[KasinoKing]

** to see why, put it like this .. I have 4 sides in my bag, 3 are red and 1 is green. I show you one side. its red, what is the chance that for any of the remaining sides to be green ?. one in three. Three sides left, one is green so one in three.

Excuse my French - but what total bollocks!

It's nothing to do with what colour the sides are, or which side you chose to show me.
You said there are 2 chips in the bag and you pick one at random.
The chance of picking either chip IS 1 in 2.

And people say my maths is way out!

KK

 

[RobWin]

Well, your average wd to deposit ratio is 15.5, taking into account your betsize and estimatating your play behaviour will be average compared to your past play at 3Dice, the odds you will cash out are roughly 5.6%.

LOL Enzo, thanks for being a good sport there...

I had actually figured it out to be 7.2% but I will concede to your better math head...

Have a good weekend my friend!
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