ISPs Blocking Gambling Related sites in the USA

[The Dude]

Here's a wake up call to everyone regardless of your relationship to this industry (player, aff.,operator, etc.) or where you live.

There may be evidence that the US is planning to block all gaming related sites from being accessed by anyone from the land of Freedom - the good ol' USA.

It was reported at CAP (Casinoaffiliateprograms.com) that this has happened to customers of Adelphia and Comcast.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I'm not trying to prod anyone's paranoia, but it is plausible that ISPs are prepping to block anything gambling related - to include Neteller - to include this site (OMG), in anticipation of online gaming becoming "illegal" in the states.

If anyone has been experiencing these sort of blockages - please let us know. This could turn into a very serious thing. US citizens rights are being squashed.

Any ideas on how to deal with this? I'm all ears.

 

[Peaceful1]

I have Comcast broadband internet service, and I haven't had any problems (so far, and luckily). Hopefully this is just "word of mouth", or something that has gotten misconstrued. I really hope that this would never happen, and honestly believe that there would be much debate, proposals in legislation, and time delays before this would be implicated.

Suffice to say I have not seen/read anything relating to ISPs/blocking specifically. I am a Federal employee of the U.S. Government on Capitol Hill, and work at the U.S. Government Printing Office where we handle documents, including bills/proposals from Congress. Generally speaking, I personally have not come across anything specifically relating to the issue of ISPs and web-blocking.

I vastly enjoy playing at online casinos, and know that one has to be careful to check the accreditations, reputation, and policies of a casino before playing. My personal hope is that emphasis would be placed moreso on the licensing and regulations/security, rather than putting a stop to online gaming PERIOD.

Nonetheless, time is key - debate, approvals, proposals, and the like all take time, and always have to potential to be ongoing, ongoing, ongoing.. so I doubt anything like this would be so "instant"

 

[sdaddy]

Thanks for the heads up Bryan.

I'm an Adelphia customer in PA, but haven't had any problems with such blockages. I'd switch ISPs right away if they did try this.

Nonetheless, time is key - debate, approvals, proposals, and the like all take time, and always have to potential to be ongoing, ongoing, ongoing.. so I doubt anything like this would be so "instant"

True, but this could happen in a similar way as what the US banks did with blocking CC transactions. In anticipation of legislation from Congress, the ISPs could take their own restrictive actions, and it could be very quick.

Keep us posted on anything happening in Congress though. It's nice to have someone here with your type of knowledge and access.

 

[Peaceful1]

sure will (as much as I can, that isn't considered "privileged information", closed session, etc.) Just had to throw that in there .. in case any of my peers, management should see

And it is highly ironic, that I, of all people there, received the Goodlatte proposal a week or so ago to work on...(I turned to my co-worker next to me and said .. "geez, they don't want us to have ANY fun!" The people in my department know I LOVE to gamble, whether it be online, at casinos, racetrack/telephone betting (TVG/Expressbet)-(I used to call in my bets when I worked dayshift riding the MARC train into work since I couldn't go to the track!)

It will be very interesting to see the developments concerning this issue.. of course, at least Congress does have MUCH to be busy with aside from the online gaming issue, so this would probably be a factor in the time anything would take to be implemented (my opinion)

 

[Westland Bowl]

Last year, didn't some Rothschild family sold their poker website or something? Perhaps they knew what was/is coming down the pike and got out before their net worth went down over fears of a ban. You know the Rothschilds are famous for their poker faces (pun intended).

 

[managra]

Btw, i wanted to point out that this is not just an American problem! If this proposed legislation were to pass or if ISPs in anticipation start blocking Neteller and gambling sites, it will have repercussions on everybody. The US is the biggest market and if that market were to fall away, lots of sites and casinos would disappear.

I do hope therefore that if CM decides on some action in which forum members can join that the non US members will pitch in as well.

 

[managra]

Thanks for the heads up Bryan.

I'm an Adelphia customer in PA, but haven't had any problems with such blockages. I'd switch ISPs right away if they did try this.

Why not email Adelphia and tell them that you would switch ISP immediately if they were to implement this blockage? And tell them that you would do so on principle not just because you gamble. If ISPs were to get a lot of emails from their customers they may think twice before doing something so drastic.

Also, i don't believe they will get many emails from non-gamblers saying that this is such a fantastic idea (although you never know about those fanatical nut cases at the far right). So, there's an opportunity for those who like to see their rights preserved to mass together and have some impact.

 

[KasinoKing]

Any ideas on how to deal with this? I'm all ears.

Yeah - all you guys move to the UK - the real land of the free!

 

[bb1webs]

while i think the battle will be long and hard, I don't think it will ever come to the point of having sites blocked by our ISPs because when that starts happening (in the states) it will be the virtual version of the gov. coming to our homes and demanding we give up our guns.

Ain't gonna happen peaceably. I will assure you of that.

Even many against OG will come to its side and all hell will be raised!

I would expect nearly any kind of lowball tactic coming from the US gov: but I don't think it is likely this would be one they'd get past the people.

Once you start down the slippery slope it is all too damn easy to end up at the bottom and though I don't credit the US people with a lot: (mostly due to their apothetic attitude)... I do credit them with being smart enough to see the possible future that allowing this sort of action could bring ...

which once they realize its something that will effect their own personal interests; they will rise and be heard with devasting effect. The US gov hasn't taken THAT much power away from the people. not yet and no time soon.

So I look for a number of failed angles for the gov to attempt but blocking sites isn't one of them. And I damn sure hope I'm right.

 

[winbig]

damn, I read this and thought the title said China, not USA. This will never fly. Sure they can try, but they'll get their a$$ sued as soon as gamblers are affected that live in states where you can gamble online legally (98% of the USA, I'm sure).

There wouldn't be a lawyer in the USA that would turn down a class action suit such as this. They cannot legally block *legal* sites. It's a violation of our constitutional rights, until a time when they make it against the law.

Blocking online gambling would be similar to when they passed prohibition way back when.


It'd be interesting to know what kind of effect this would cause to the online gaming industry. Anyone know what % of players are from the USA?

 

[dominique]

The Professor from CAP has asked me to post that he will comment here but can't login at the time. As soon as the login problem is fixed, he'll be here to comment.

 

[BrianC]

Hold on a sec....I don't think this is true. ISP's tend to reject government
requests to "police" where customers are visiting unless there is a court
order to do so. As of now, there is no such court order and there is no
law stating that online gaming is even illegal. I doubt, very much, that ISP's
will just want to do this on their own. For what reason?
If they DID do this, then we'd need to be very suspicious of governement intervention, and maybe threats made to ISP's.

It is rediculous to think that with real things to worry about on the internet (such as child porn) that they'd rather block adults from what is typically nothing more then an entertainment pastime.
There are scarey times here in the US. Out freedoms are slowly eroding away.
"Political correctness" is deteriorating freedom of speech while the post-911 government is seeking more and more new ways to 'spy' on good citizens under the disguise of "protecting" us.
Frankly, I'm sick of it all. All I can do is pray that it doesn't get worse.


Brian

 

[Peaceful1]

nevermind all the controversy about the Privacy Act, which is due to have a ruling soon... I don't have all the specifics, but I'm sure somehow it ties into the issue, or someone would find a way to tie it in...

but, like I mentioned about timing and delays (especially when it comes to gambling).. I live in Maryland, and there has been ongoing debate, proposals, turndowns for regular casino slots to be legalized in this State. Proposals after proposals, with amendments, has been presented and turn down time and time again as we watch our neighboring states flourish with casinos (Delaware, West Virginia, and most recently Pennsylvania). And, I've always wondered why, but Neteller is NOT available to Maryland residents (and this is a major inconvenience for me). I wonder if that decision was made by the State of Maryland??? hmmm....

Delaware's casinos and race tracks are regulated by their State lottery.. so you would think the State of MD would see this as a benefit to the state government if they did the same.. but as mentioned earlier, you do have those "far right" opponents of gambling getting into the mix

 

[jetset]

I just can't see the US administration getting away with this...not without one helluva fight with their own citizenry because as has already been said ISP banning would set such a dangerous precedent impacting the freedom of the Internet.

Regarding a concerted campaign to petition against this sort of thing, there was a time when the industry as a whole (and I'm including players) mobilised every time a ban was proposed. There were links and publicity on numerous sites routing to a suggested letter to the Congressional representatives of the folks who didn't think banning online gaming was a great idea.

I haven't seen much of that sort of activity in more recent times - maybe we've all become a little complacent as a result of so many banning attempts failing.

 

[dominique]

If such a thing would happen, players would be key.

Players are a huge, voting group. They certainly have the power to stop such a thing (if it were to happen).

 

[The Dude]

The Professor from CAP has asked me to post that he will comment here but can't login at the time. As soon as the login problem is fixed, he'll be here to comment.

He's been sent a new password

I just can't see the US administration getting away with this...not without one helluva fight with their own citizenry because as has already been said ISP banning would set such a dangerous precedent impacting the freedom of the Internet.

But I can see ISPs prepping themselves for DOJ threats. The DOJ has been successful in its sword rattling which has caused advertisers million. If an anti-gaming bill passes, I could see them turn towards ISPs and say - "you're aiding and abetting an illegal activity." And watch the ISPs scramble for the anti-gaming filter switch.

 

[managra]

Delaware's casinos and race tracks are regulated by their State lottery.. so you would think the State of MD would see this as a benefit to the state government if they did the same.. but as mentioned earlier, you do have those "far right" opponents of gambling getting into the mix

Not trying to veer off topic, on some issues the Gov't (Fed and States) is so entrenched that they don't want to consider the benefits of reversing their stance. Take the infamous War on Drugs. How much has it cost? Has it helped anything? Just think how much revenue the Gov't could bring in if it were to legalize and regulate soft drugs. Just think how many resources (law enforcement, justice system, jail space) this would free up to more vigorously deal with tougher crimes.

I am anxious to hear what the Professor has to say. It's interesting though that he reported that he was having access to the web except anything gambling related. His ISP told him that they were doing some "testing".

Thank you, Jetset, for giving a historical perspective on all campaigns that had been mobilized in the present (as a relative noob i wasn't aware of that). It's never all that great to be complacent but particularly so when you are confronted with a trend that is nibbling away more and more of your rights. And given the tough political situation the party who is proposing this online anti-gaming legislation finds itself in at present, perhaps it is the ideal time to start mobilizing again.

 

[suzecat]

Hummmmmm, apparently AOL hasn't flipped the switch yet.

Two points:

First, banks/credit cards were blocked as a result of amended banking regulations. As an earlier poster mentioned, someone was able to squirm out of legitimate debt and it scared the hell out of 'em (banks).

Second, until (BIG UNTIL) such time as the Congress/Senate votes AND approves a bill making gambling illegal, ISPs are not going to ban gambling related sites. Sure, they might be investigating contingency plans as we debate these issues, but they are not going to implement anything until they are legally obligated to do so. That would be, at best, like shooting themselves in the foot.

Lest we forget the states that allow (even encourage) gambling in the US. In order for any gambling ban to take effect, years of rewriting the US Constitution would be in order. SO, relax.

And BeetleB, you ain't gettin' rid of us that easy -- so just get back to work

 

[largeeyes]

What gets me is that will block gambling, but not child porn. This is getting to be one really odd country.

 

[dominique]

What gets me is that will block gambling, but not child porn. This is getting to be one really odd country.

You can say that again!

I was just going to say something about the past time those people must be enjoying since they go after aunt Betty's online Bingo game and grandpa Gus' online poker game, but there are millions of porn sites of all descriptions, from harmless to totally disgusting and abusive to kids.

It certainly makes you wonder.

 

[Pinababy69]

This was all on Tuesday the 1st right? I'm not sure if anyone read my thread I started about MG server issues, but I had problems all afternoon and into the evening....I was unable to log into any casino, d/l or flash. And I do not live in the US, I live in Toronto, Canada. At the time I had thought it was my computer, lol. Is it possible that this was just a major ISP server problem, and not filtering? I was told that it had been due to an ISP here in Canada, which I guess also routes traffic elsewhere? Not sure I understand totally..but surely it can't be a coincidence that this happened to me the same day you guys are all saying the US service providers were testing a filter.

I'm really thinking it was just a major outage/downtime..but then again, what do I know?

 

[Sodax77]

...It'd be interesting to know what kind of effect this would cause to the online gaming industry. Anyone know what % of players are from the USA?

iNetBet/2005: 60% at max

 

[winbig]

iNetBet/2005: 60% at max

Seems the future of online gambling would be in more trouble than I thought then.


in re: not policing child porn sites:

The problem with that is the fact that a huge % of these sites are hosted offshore. The USA can't really be the world police (although they try to) and simply block these sites or shut them down.

Hell, we get enough stuff from China already; maybe we can outsource our censorship duties (if this goes through) to them also

All I have to say is I'll be glad when the next elections get here in '08. The last 5 years has been the only time in my life I've even considered relocating to another country!!! What gets old is crap like this, as well as the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer here.

 

[winbig]

Australia to do it too?

nvm...

 

[NoMouthToScream]

08 elections mean squat, especially after the lifetime appointments of the supreme court judges. Bush and his cronies will reign long after. But maybe we can take over Congress. If there is filtering of any kind from the ISP's there will be hell to pay from all fronts. It will set too many precedents and nobody will stand for it. But then again, stranger things have happened...

 

[jetset]

Hummmmmm, apparently AOL hasn't flipped the switch yet.

Two points:

First, banks/credit cards were blocked as a result of amended banking regulations. As an earlier poster mentioned, someone was able to squirm out of legitimate debt and it scared the hell out of 'em (banks).

Second, until (BIG UNTIL) such time as the Congress/Senate votes AND approves a bill making gambling illegal, ISPs are not going to ban gambling related sites. Sure, they might be investigating contingency plans as we debate these issues, but they are not going to implement anything until they are legally obligated to do so. That would be, at best, like shooting themselves in the foot.

Lest we forget the states that allow (even encourage) gambling in the US. In order for any gambling ban to take effect, years of rewriting the US Constitution would be in order. SO, relax.

And BeetleB, you ain't gettin' rid of us that easy -- so just get back to work

Good post, Suze - two other things to consider:

1) The activities of institutions of influence that seek to protect individual US freedoms are sure to be triggered by any attempt to tamper with ISPs, and that will gain substantial popular support. I think there may also be many politicians who would be reluctant to support this sort of ISP action - they must know it would not go down well with their constituents.

2) We have already seen, year after year the impact that vested interests can have on attempts to ban internet gambling (example: the horse racing fraternity who don't want to see Internet possibilities slip from their grasp although they have no problem with seeing online casino gambling curtailed)

I think this would not only impact the ban on Internet gaming per se, but also any part of the enforcement provisions that involve filtering gambling sites through the ISPs. The two are entwined, and I doubt that exemptions would be the answer - they haven't been in the past.

 

[Professor]

Guys I have access via Adelphia Powerlink and when I got up Weds morning they WERE blocking all Gambling Content to my PC. I attempted to visit over 100 different sites including Casinomeister, Winner Online, My sites, Neteller, My affiliate accounts and ALL were blocked and returned a 404 error. When I attempted to visit retail sites I own I had no problem. I could visit ANY site I wanted with the exception of sites that featured online gambling content.

I shut down my broadband connection and went to dial up and a different ISP and instantly my access to all sites was restored. If this was a router issue in Canada or regional outage this would NOT have been possible.

I signed off dial up and reconnected Broadband and access to all sites was again denied. I checked about thirty sites before I was convinced something was definately going on. I disconnected broadband again and went back to dial up. All sites were once again available.

I called Adelphia on the phone and was routed to a recording which stated that there was a regional access issue effecting internet users in the South East United states and that their engineers were aware of the problem and were working on it.

I can't imagine HOW a regional access issue would ONLY effect Gambling Related sites and WHY it would only effect Adelphia clients.

A few hours later I once again had full access via Adelphia. So apparently they had completed whatever they were up to and shut down the filters.

This is not a potential scenario or a what if discussion. IT HAPPENED.

I am firmly convinced that Adelphia was testing a filter set. I am not sure why or what their future intentions are, but I can assure you they did employ this filter for several hours this past week.

I don't want to get into a political dissertation, but I would point out to those who are so confident that in America we would never see censorship or that there would be some huge backlash if there was, where was the huge backlash to a war fought over weapons of mass destruction that never existed? Where was the huge backlash over illegal wiretaps of thousands of US citizens? Where was the huge backlash to a budget surplus that evaporated and was replaced by trillions of dollars in debt? I hate to say it, but the sad fact is Americans don't create huge backlashes to ANYTHING the government does anymore. They dont have time, media access or the passion to do it. IF these laws pass and are enacted people will not bat an eye. Oh yeah, those of us that enjoy gambling online or earn money as affiliates will be up in arms, but guess what? IT WONT MATTER.

At that time, in the governments eyes, we will be rallying to break the law. We won't be looked on as defenders of freedom, we will be labeled problem gamblers, radicals, greedy affiliates and the like. Thats what usually happens when people take a position unpopluar with the government isnt it?

 

[Professor]

One more comment regarding ISPs...

They are businesses. Period. They do what's in their best interest. If their legal counsel advises them to block content of any kind they will do it without flinching. Ask the main land chinese if Google and Yahoo arent filtering content. When the chinese government indicated they would BLOCK access by their citizens to those search providers both willingly began filtering/censoring content. They werent ordered by the courts to do so and both are US based companies. Do you really think for a new york second that if the justice department threatened leagal action against them they WOULDNT turn filtering on? Dont be Nieve.

Despite all this jabber about the sanctity of free speach in the US almost EVERY major media outlet refuses to run ads for online gambling. I cant buy an ad on Yahoo (Overture) or Google Adsense. Where is the free speach protection there? Where is the high moral grounds with providers taking a stand against tyranny? They gave up tens of millions of dollars of monthly income, why? Because they didnt want to face the wrath of the Justice Department. They examined the risks and decided it was in their best interests to supress free speach and reject those ad dollars. Why do you think they would protect FREE ACCESS to gamling content when they wouldnt protect PAID ACCESS where they earned a profit?

 

[sdaddy]

First, banks/credit cards were blocked as a result of amended banking regulations. As an earlier poster mentioned, someone was able to squirm out of legitimate debt and it scared the hell out of 'em (banks).

Thanks for the correction. While it wasn't the deciding factor, I still think pressure from politicians may have played some role. It was certainly the case that Citibank decided in 2002 to block its online gambling CC transactions because of pressure from the New York attorney general.

 

[managra]

All I can say is, the USA government has other issues to worry about!!
OMG we have a war going on, the state of LA to fix, the FEMA situation to correct, child porn, the homless and the hungry, running out of social security, schools that dont have enough funds to run properly, teachers underpaid, drug smugglers that bring drugs into this country in animals or any other way for that matter, eldery people that cant afford medication to keep them alive.... this list could go on!!!

They need to get a clue and focus on some real issues, not the issue of what people choose to do in the privacy of there own home.

Sadly, that's not what is happening, however. Remember the repugnant Terry Schiavo debate last year? It's the sanctity of the Right To Life that was shouted about and quickly and sordidly picked up by various politicians to defend the life of a person whose quality of life had been reduced to zero a long time ago. What do you think the health care cost is for all those, many elderly, whose life of constant pain has reduced the quality of their life to less than zero? Not to forget the painful impact on their relatives who have to witness this. And everybody pays for that indirectly in the form of increased insurance premiums.

Similarly, over the years the Right to Life has been very successful in nibbling away at legal abortion. In South Dakota ALL abortion is about to become illegal. Given the current composition of the Supreme Court this trend is likely to continue. Yet, at the same time you read that there are currently four times as many children in Protective Services as two decades ago. It has resulted in case workers from Prot. Services having unmanageable case loads with the result that you keep hearing stories where kids die under horrible circumstances because the case worker had not identified the child as being "at risk".

Ironically, the same Right to Life segment of the population is also the great defender of the right to have guns. Yeah, it all makes great sense!

 

[Westland Bowl]

I agree with the Professor regarding the lack of willingness of US citizens to protest the blocking of online gambling or any other sites as we/they shown on other recent issues. In fact, there are many websites showing that it is nearly impossible that the 9/11 tragedy was the work of foreign terrorists but where is the outrage or serious discussion challenging the official stance on what happened? But I diagress. It used to be that we thought it was technically impossible to block any sites but now we know that it can quite easily be done. USA is turning into the new communist Red China.

BUT LET'S PONDER THIS: So far, the people who've had their access to the gambling sites and who've reported this on this on variouis gambling boards are the board owners or someone in some capacity have an important role within the online gambling community: Damian Dunlap (no disrespect, Casinomeister) runs an board and he reported this blockage on at least a couple of boards and the Professor who is involved with CAP reported it here. I wonder if any of Damian's friends using the same ISP within the same vicinity where he lives ALSO couldn't access gambling sites online. The question is: were these people specially selected for blocking their access to gambling sites because the Powers-That-Be figured they would report online about it the most? Have there been any other complaints from the lowlies like the rest of us of not having access?

In any case, I believe it is high time for Americans to realize just how much their voice doesn't really matter to government and big business anymore. The almighty dollar (or euro or pound, etc) is god and the governments/big business willing sacrifice to it.

 

[managra]

I don't want to get into a political dissertation, but I would point out to those who are so confident that in America we would never see censorship or that there would be some huge backlash if there was, where was the huge backlash to a war fought over weapons of mass destruction that never existed? Where was the huge backlash over illegal wiretaps of thousands of US citizens? Where was the huge backlash to a budget surplus that evaporated and was replaced by trillions of dollars in debt? I hate to say it, but the sad fact is Americans don't create huge backlashes to ANYTHING the government does anymore. They dont have time, media access or the passion to do it. IF these laws pass and are enacted people will not bat an eye. Oh yeah, those of us that enjoy gambling online or earn money as affiliates will be up in arms, but guess what? IT WONT MATTER.

At that time, in the governments eyes, we will be rallying to break the law. We won't be looked on as defenders of freedom, we will be labeled problem gamblers, radicals, greedy affiliates and the like. Thats what usually happens when people take a position unpopluar with the government isnt it?

I have the feeling that those sentiments are changing right now. People have condoned a lot of things in the last few years because of security considerations in the fight against terrorism. Many people, who voted for Bush in '04, are now feeling badly betrayed. People's eyes are open after we saw how DHS handled Katrina, how promoting democracies in the ME is very favorable to Islamists groups since they are the only ones condoned by their regimes, how the war in Iraq is about to erupt into a civil war, how we are selling vulnerable security assets (ports management) to our "friend", the UAE (Saddam and OBL used to be our friends as well when they were fighting our respective enemies, Iran and the the Soviet Union!). Plus a change, plus c'est la mme chose.

Perhaps the apathy of so many of us stems from the fact that you cannot trust any politician (Democrat or Republican) at any level of government, be it federal, state, or local. Every politician is just acting out of pure self-interest and cloaks his campaign agenda only to get elected. You can try to fight it for a while but then you end up very frustrated and stressed out and decide to just mind your own business, your own little world which already has its share of stresses, from thereon in.

I agree with you that it is better to be pro-active rather than wait and see until you start the fight from a position that has already become illegal.

 

[max1mike]

might be time to do a pre-emptive strike in case this actually happens.

maybe set up another site with a name that has nothing to do with gambling.

i am a member at a few sites that the content has NOTHING to do with the name. i know that i surely would miss coming here if in fact my isp (adelphia) decided i shouldn't be hanging out with all us outlaws

 

[suzecat]

Guys I have access via Adelphia Powerlink and when I got up Weds morning they WERE blocking all Gambling Content to my PC. I attempted to visit over 100 different sites including Casinomeister, Winner Online, My sites, Neteller, My affiliate accounts and ALL were blocked and returned a 404 error. When I attempted to visit retail sites I own I had no problem. I could visit ANY site I wanted with the exception of sites that featured online gambling content.

I shut down my broadband connection and went to dial up and a different ISP and instantly my access to all sites was restored. If this was a router issue in Canada or regional outage this would NOT have been possible.

I signed off dial up and reconnected Broadband and access to all sites was again denied. I checked about thirty sites before I was convinced something was definately going on. I disconnected broadband again and went back to dial up. All sites were once again available.

I called Adelphia on the phone and was routed to a recording which stated that there was a regional access issue effecting internet users in the South East United states and that their engineers were aware of the problem and were working on it.

I can't imagine HOW a regional access issue would ONLY effect Gambling Related sites and WHY it would only effect Adelphia clients.

A few hours later I once again had full access via Adelphia. So apparently they had completed whatever they were up to and shut down the filters.

This is not a potential scenario or a what if discussion. IT HAPPENED.

I am firmly convinced that Adelphia was testing a filter set. I am not sure why or what their future intentions are, but I can assure you they did employ this filter for several hours this past week.

I don't want to get into a political dissertation, but I would point out to those who are so confident that in America we would never see censorship or that there would be some huge backlash if there was, where was the huge backlash to a war fought over weapons of mass destruction that never existed? Where was the huge backlash over illegal wiretaps of thousands of US citizens? Where was the huge backlash to a budget surplus that evaporated and was replaced by trillions of dollars in debt? I hate to say it, but the sad fact is Americans don't create huge backlashes to ANYTHING the government does anymore. They dont have time, media access or the passion to do it. IF these laws pass and are enacted people will not bat an eye. Oh yeah, those of us that enjoy gambling online or earn money as affiliates will be up in arms, but guess what? IT WONT MATTER.

At that time, in the governments eyes, we will be rallying to break the law. We won't be looked on as defenders of freedom, we will be labeled problem gamblers, radicals, greedy affiliates and the like. Thats what usually happens when people take a position unpopluar with the government isnt it?

Professor, you have my attention -- and my sympathy -- as being temporarily blocked from your interests must have been unsettling.

Were any non-cable based internet connections involved in this filtering operation? I have not read that any were affected so I suspect it is something promulgated by FCC regulated companies.

OK, so they did their filtering test (and were able to prove it could be done) and now it is over (no filtering). IF this were to become a future permanent change, your recourse would be to use non FCC regulated internet access. I believe this was similarly the route taken when banks were replaced by Neteller. There's always a new way to get to where you want to go.

Personally I do not have a problem being labeled a radical. It is a cross my generation (baby boomer) bears with respect.

 

[Peaceful1]

Let's just hope time is on our side...

and possibly hindsight (similiar bills have been presented and turned down in 1997 and 1999)


I took a look at Adelphia's HSI Service Agreement: Outdated URL (Invalid)

"You
understand and agree that the Adelphia Broadband Service may be
temporarily limited, interrupted or curtailed due to system capacity
limitations; governmental actions; force majeure; events beyond Adelphias
control; or temporary equipment or systems failures or modifications,..."


Likewise, there were also the standard outlined provisions intended primarily for emails, spam and viruses, but... there is the possibility somewhere in the fine print it covers any transmitted data whatsoever. This is merely speculation, but it shows that in the event something like this would occur, they already have their terms documented in their user agreements, which are scattered with "hold harmless" statements and such:


"These measures
may include the use of third-party software either on a stand-alone basis
or in conjunction with other filtering methods. Adelphia reserves the right to use such filtering measures at any time, with or without notice to
You, in its sole discretion."

 

[Slotster!]

I can't access casinomeister anymore on my PDA, as my ISP classes it as "inappropriate content". That's T-Mobile GPRS... Bit too Big Brother for my liking, hence why they'll be getting binned when my contracts up next month.

 

[suzecat]

and possibly hindsight (similiar bills have been presented and turned down in 1997 and 1999)


I took a look at Adelphia's HSI Service Agreement: Outdated URL (Invalid)

"You
understand and agree that the Adelphia Broadband Service may be
temporarily limited, interrupted or curtailed due to system capacity
limitations; governmental actions; force majeure; events beyond Adelphias
control; or temporary equipment or systems failures or modifications,..."


Likewise, there were also the standard outlined provisions intended primarily for emails, spam and viruses, but... there is the possibility somewhere in the fine print it covers any transmitted data whatsoever. This is merely speculation, but it shows that in the event something like this would occur, they already have their terms documented in their user agreements, which are scattered with "hold harmless" statements and such:


"These measures
may include the use of third-party software either on a stand-alone basis
or in conjunction with other filtering methods. Adelphia reserves the right to use such filtering measures at any time, with or without notice to
You, in its sole discretion."

Weren't Adelphia head honchos busted out a while ago (2002) by the SEC? Pondering the impact of being beholden to the feds...........

 

[42ndSSD]

Obviously I can't speak for individual ISPs, but any laws banning online gambling sites will be struck down as First Amendment violations, without question. Even for something as "insidious" as gambling; they already allow sites on subjects perceived as far more evil (including sites which sell drugs and contact lenses without prescriptions, not just talk about them).

(Also keep in mind that some ISPs do filter "adult content" sites on request, and this may include gambling-related sites. I believe when I signed up with PacHell a few years ago they offered to do this.)

More importantly, they can pass umpteen laws banning online gambling but I don't know how they're going to enforce them. Encrypted IP tunneling can easily work around any sort of block/filter they want to put in place; given the amount of interest in gambling online, people will inevitably offer such a service.

The only even partially effective way would be to prevent people from depositing money with the casinos, but this too will be a failure. There's just too much potential profit involved. Consider how much money Neteller is making off of Internet gambling, then multiply it by whatever the increase in "service fees" will be... (Heck, I'd be generous and only charge 15% )

Finally, this has nothing to do with politics. It would've come up no matter who was President, it just so happens that it's reached critical mass right now. The desire to ban it is entirely about fame, greed, and graft on the part of a few individuals in Congress/Senate.

Overseas gambling operators don't line Congresscritter pockets, but we can be quite certain gambling interests in the US do. And it's far easier to legally eliminate a competitor than try to compete.

 

[Peaceful1]

exactly...

Weren't Adelphia head honchos busted out a while ago (2002) by the SEC? Pondering the impact of being beholden to the feds...........

Their site boasts the reconstruction under their new leadership after their bankruptcy.. and it gets even more interesting looking at this article:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[nafanny29]

I think that there would be more protest than imagined if they tried to ban gaming sites. It would look like the start of state controlled internet and I cant see the US public supporting that kind of thing.

Its like if they tried to filter out something I had ZERO interest in I would still feel very angry indeed at the thought of the internet being policed, and im sure the vast majority of the population would feel just as outraged, thats why I dont think it will happen.

 

[jetset]

I don't believe you can equate resistance to the US approach to weapons of mass destruction (which was a pretty scary thought back then) with ISP filtering of online gambling sites, Lou.

The latter is actually likely to make for more domestic public interest imo because it directly impinges on the individual's right to choose his or her entertainment and the fundamental right of being able to access a resource as free and powerful as the Internet.

I therefore continue to believe that this would be a major cause of public aggravation. Time will tell, if this incident is what you believe it to be, and in the meantime you have your opinion and I have mine.

I was actually trying to contact Adelphia for a press comment today at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

because I would like to hear more detail from them and pose a few questions based on the Professor's post in order to test their side of the story.

Regrettably the site is very US-oriented and as a foreign enquirer I could not get past the on-site enquiry email form with my details.

Then I got to wondering whether it might not be an idea for (perhaps the Prof?) to contact a inquisitive journalist and interest him or her in pursuing this story with Adelphia? Having a newshound sniffing around may make them more inclined to expand on what seems to be a dubious response thus far, and this is the sort of story that has really good and provocative potential.

 

[GrandMaster]

I wish the same amount of effort went into stopping spam (the CAN-SPAM Act is a very appropriate name, spammer can spam) and blocking sites selling V1@gra and Ci@l1s.

 

[winbig]

I wish the same amount of effort went into stopping spam (the CAN-SPAM Act is a very appropriate name, spammer can spam) and blocking sites selling V1@gra and Ci@l1s.

Such an appropriate and true definition

AFAIK, it's definately illegal to buy meds online (from outside the country) from within the USA, but yet there's nothing in the works to block those sites? So hypocritical. Has anyone else thought that the main force behind this may be the b&m casinos within the USA pressuring the gov't (money talks) into blocking online gambling sites? I'm sure it's got to hurt their bottom line, even by just a little bit.

 

[Peaceful1]

I was actually trying to contact Adelphia for a press comment today at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

because I would like to hear more detail from them and pose a few questions based on the Professor's post in order to test their side of the story.

Regrettably the site is very US-oriented and as a foreign enquirer I could not get past the on-site enquiry email form with my details.

Jetset,

I'm sure you probably have already noticed this on their website - Link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

but I was just wondering if you were going to pursue it this way, and if you can keep us informed on the status. Since you are in a press/media group, this is very helpful as far as getting more confirmed information, at least from Adelphia's standpoint...

 

[cipher]

Then I got to wondering whether it might not be an idea for (perhaps the Prof?) to contact a inquisitive journalist and interest him or her in pursuing this story with Adelphia? Having a newshound sniffing around may make them more inclined to expand on what seems to be a dubious response thus far, and this is the sort of story that has really good and provocative potential.

Hi JET:

It might not be a bad idea to approach MICHAEL BRUNKER from MSNBC.com on this. As you may recall he was most helpful to my efforts in getting the word out on the PIRATE fiasco a couple of years ago. I've instant messaged you Michael's email address.

Have a good one.

 

[Westland Bowl]

Welcome back, Cipher! You have a good one yourself, too!

 

[mjs]

Another possibility

I know I am new to the forum and late to the discussion, but has anyone considered the possibility that there is another explanation?

Say, for example there actually was a routing issue, and it only affected sites outside of the US. During the outage, did you try any other non-US based sites?

 

[theAPCW]

Hello all...

I just had my account approved here and am very happy to see you guys are already all over this topic! =0)

I have a link to write to your state rep's in the US : Old / Expired Link

And I have a form letter to make your life easier... so change it as you like, tone it down... tone it up... just send something please! Each one you send will be considered the voice of hundreds of others unheard voices!

Write write write!

Dear Rep. ________________,

I am writing you to let you know that one of your constituent, Rep Bob Goodlatte, has introduced a bill (HR 4777) that is unequalled it it's hypocrisy, lies, and discrimination of an industry.

His proposal to ban online gambling is riddled with lies, half-truths, and paranoid suspicions. This industry does not target children and it never has. This industry is not filled with criminals but honest hard working men and women of integrity. This industry does not hurt individuals or their families, but supports patriotic Americans who helped vote you into office.

There are millions of American citizens across this great country who enjoy playing a $20 game of poker online, or spending $50 at an online slot machine, and do so responsibly with no harm to themselves or their families. Goodlatte proposes to penalize these millions of responsible tax-payers by a distorted view of the facts, and by twisting statistics to fit his own moral agenda.

The American people do not support this bill, and I am holding you responsible to make my voice heard on this! The online gaming industry is LEGAL and REGULATED within the United Kingdom! It is accepted and run from other civilized countries around the globe, and the real issue here is MONEY... everything else is smoke and mirrors to support Goodlatte's pursuit of this money.

The online gambling industry did NOT grow to a $12 billion a year business by HURTING people. That $12 billion did NOT come from targeting minors! It came from a dedication to customer service and an HONEST business model. The competition is too great to act unethically, and the rewards are too great to operate dishonestly. In fact, with all the SELF-REGULATION that goes on inside this industry, I dare say we have less dirty laundry that the Congress with which you serve.

Goodlatte has failed to research this subject completely. He has failed to realize the potential of this industry. And he has failed to recognize the will of the American people. I implore you to act before he casts this great nation back into the dark ages of prohibition... which we know does not work.

If you pass this legislation, you will be equally responsible for yet another "war" against your own people. One that will wage for years, and one where honest, responsible, tax paying, patriotic American citizens will be persecuted and prosecuted for an act of recreation which they should have a right to enjoy in the privacy of their own homes.

 

[managra]

If opponents of this bill really wanted to take a stand on this, the time would be now, while it is in the hands of the House Judiciary Committee. As this link Outdated URL (Invalid) quotes:

"Perhaps the most important phase of the legislative process is the action by committees. The committees provide the most intensive consideration to a proposed measure as well as the forum where the public is given their opportunity to be heard."

Thanks for your post, Cynthia. Anyone knows who exactly are members of the House Judiciary Committee so that we can send letters/email to them?

I also like Jetset's idea to pass on the Adelphia incident to the media. It's the right time and the right climate to speak out against yet another attempt to shackle our freedoms.

 

[winbig]

see below, double posted for some reason.