ISPs Blocking Gambling Related sites in the USA

[jetset]

Hummmmmm, apparently AOL hasn't flipped the switch yet.

Two points:

First, banks/credit cards were blocked as a result of amended banking regulations. As an earlier poster mentioned, someone was able to squirm out of legitimate debt and it scared the hell out of 'em (banks).

Second, until (BIG UNTIL) such time as the Congress/Senate votes AND approves a bill making gambling illegal, ISPs are not going to ban gambling related sites. Sure, they might be investigating contingency plans as we debate these issues, but they are not going to implement anything until they are legally obligated to do so. That would be, at best, like shooting themselves in the foot.

Lest we forget the states that allow (even encourage) gambling in the US. In order for any gambling ban to take effect, years of rewriting the US Constitution would be in order. SO, relax.

And BeetleB, you ain't gettin' rid of us that easy -- so just get back to work

Good post, Suze - two other things to consider:

1) The activities of institutions of influence that seek to protect individual US freedoms are sure to be triggered by any attempt to tamper with ISPs, and that will gain substantial popular support. I think there may also be many politicians who would be reluctant to support this sort of ISP action - they must know it would not go down well with their constituents.

2) We have already seen, year after year the impact that vested interests can have on attempts to ban internet gambling (example: the horse racing fraternity who don't want to see Internet possibilities slip from their grasp although they have no problem with seeing online casino gambling curtailed)

I think this would not only impact the ban on Internet gaming per se, but also any part of the enforcement provisions that involve filtering gambling sites through the ISPs. The two are entwined, and I doubt that exemptions would be the answer - they haven't been in the past.

 

[Professor]

Guys I have access via Adelphia Powerlink and when I got up Weds morning they WERE blocking all Gambling Content to my PC. I attempted to visit over 100 different sites including Casinomeister, Winner Online, My sites, Neteller, My affiliate accounts and ALL were blocked and returned a 404 error. When I attempted to visit retail sites I own I had no problem. I could visit ANY site I wanted with the exception of sites that featured online gambling content.

I shut down my broadband connection and went to dial up and a different ISP and instantly my access to all sites was restored. If this was a router issue in Canada or regional outage this would NOT have been possible.

I signed off dial up and reconnected Broadband and access to all sites was again denied. I checked about thirty sites before I was convinced something was definately going on. I disconnected broadband again and went back to dial up. All sites were once again available.

I called Adelphia on the phone and was routed to a recording which stated that there was a regional access issue effecting internet users in the South East United states and that their engineers were aware of the problem and were working on it.

I can't imagine HOW a regional access issue would ONLY effect Gambling Related sites and WHY it would only effect Adelphia clients.

A few hours later I once again had full access via Adelphia. So apparently they had completed whatever they were up to and shut down the filters.

This is not a potential scenario or a what if discussion. IT HAPPENED.

I am firmly convinced that Adelphia was testing a filter set. I am not sure why or what their future intentions are, but I can assure you they did employ this filter for several hours this past week.

I don't want to get into a political dissertation, but I would point out to those who are so confident that in America we would never see censorship or that there would be some huge backlash if there was, where was the huge backlash to a war fought over weapons of mass destruction that never existed? Where was the huge backlash over illegal wiretaps of thousands of US citizens? Where was the huge backlash to a budget surplus that evaporated and was replaced by trillions of dollars in debt? I hate to say it, but the sad fact is Americans don't create huge backlashes to ANYTHING the government does anymore. They dont have time, media access or the passion to do it. IF these laws pass and are enacted people will not bat an eye. Oh yeah, those of us that enjoy gambling online or earn money as affiliates will be up in arms, but guess what? IT WONT MATTER.

At that time, in the governments eyes, we will be rallying to break the law. We won't be looked on as defenders of freedom, we will be labeled problem gamblers, radicals, greedy affiliates and the like. Thats what usually happens when people take a position unpopluar with the government isnt it?

 

[Professor]

One more comment regarding ISPs...

They are businesses. Period. They do what's in their best interest. If their legal counsel advises them to block content of any kind they will do it without flinching. Ask the main land chinese if Google and Yahoo arent filtering content. When the chinese government indicated they would BLOCK access by their citizens to those search providers both willingly began filtering/censoring content. They werent ordered by the courts to do so and both are US based companies. Do you really think for a new york second that if the justice department threatened leagal action against them they WOULDNT turn filtering on? Dont be Nieve.

Despite all this jabber about the sanctity of free speach in the US almost EVERY major media outlet refuses to run ads for online gambling. I cant buy an ad on Yahoo (Overture) or Google Adsense. Where is the free speach protection there? Where is the high moral grounds with providers taking a stand against tyranny? They gave up tens of millions of dollars of monthly income, why? Because they didnt want to face the wrath of the Justice Department. They examined the risks and decided it was in their best interests to supress free speach and reject those ad dollars. Why do you think they would protect FREE ACCESS to gamling content when they wouldnt protect PAID ACCESS where they earned a profit?

 

[sdaddy]

First, banks/credit cards were blocked as a result of amended banking regulations. As an earlier poster mentioned, someone was able to squirm out of legitimate debt and it scared the hell out of 'em (banks).

Thanks for the correction. While it wasn't the deciding factor, I still think pressure from politicians may have played some role. It was certainly the case that Citibank decided in 2002 to block its online gambling CC transactions because of pressure from the New York attorney general.

 

[managra]

All I can say is, the USA government has other issues to worry about!!
OMG we have a war going on, the state of LA to fix, the FEMA situation to correct, child porn, the homless and the hungry, running out of social security, schools that dont have enough funds to run properly, teachers underpaid, drug smugglers that bring drugs into this country in animals or any other way for that matter, eldery people that cant afford medication to keep them alive.... this list could go on!!!

They need to get a clue and focus on some real issues, not the issue of what people choose to do in the privacy of there own home.

Sadly, that's not what is happening, however. Remember the repugnant Terry Schiavo debate last year? It's the sanctity of the Right To Life that was shouted about and quickly and sordidly picked up by various politicians to defend the life of a person whose quality of life had been reduced to zero a long time ago. What do you think the health care cost is for all those, many elderly, whose life of constant pain has reduced the quality of their life to less than zero? Not to forget the painful impact on their relatives who have to witness this. And everybody pays for that indirectly in the form of increased insurance premiums.

Similarly, over the years the Right to Life has been very successful in nibbling away at legal abortion. In South Dakota ALL abortion is about to become illegal. Given the current composition of the Supreme Court this trend is likely to continue. Yet, at the same time you read that there are currently four times as many children in Protective Services as two decades ago. It has resulted in case workers from Prot. Services having unmanageable case loads with the result that you keep hearing stories where kids die under horrible circumstances because the case worker had not identified the child as being "at risk".

Ironically, the same Right to Life segment of the population is also the great defender of the right to have guns. Yeah, it all makes great sense!

 

[Westland Bowl]

I agree with the Professor regarding the lack of willingness of US citizens to protest the blocking of online gambling or any other sites as we/they shown on other recent issues. In fact, there are many websites showing that it is nearly impossible that the 9/11 tragedy was the work of foreign terrorists but where is the outrage or serious discussion challenging the official stance on what happened? But I diagress. It used to be that we thought it was technically impossible to block any sites but now we know that it can quite easily be done. USA is turning into the new communist Red China.

BUT LET'S PONDER THIS: So far, the people who've had their access to the gambling sites and who've reported this on this on variouis gambling boards are the board owners or someone in some capacity have an important role within the online gambling community: Damian Dunlap (no disrespect, Casinomeister) runs an board and he reported this blockage on at least a couple of boards and the Professor who is involved with CAP reported it here. I wonder if any of Damian's friends using the same ISP within the same vicinity where he lives ALSO couldn't access gambling sites online. The question is: were these people specially selected for blocking their access to gambling sites because the Powers-That-Be figured they would report online about it the most? Have there been any other complaints from the lowlies like the rest of us of not having access?

In any case, I believe it is high time for Americans to realize just how much their voice doesn't really matter to government and big business anymore. The almighty dollar (or euro or pound, etc) is god and the governments/big business willing sacrifice to it.

 

[managra]

I don't want to get into a political dissertation, but I would point out to those who are so confident that in America we would never see censorship or that there would be some huge backlash if there was, where was the huge backlash to a war fought over weapons of mass destruction that never existed? Where was the huge backlash over illegal wiretaps of thousands of US citizens? Where was the huge backlash to a budget surplus that evaporated and was replaced by trillions of dollars in debt? I hate to say it, but the sad fact is Americans don't create huge backlashes to ANYTHING the government does anymore. They dont have time, media access or the passion to do it. IF these laws pass and are enacted people will not bat an eye. Oh yeah, those of us that enjoy gambling online or earn money as affiliates will be up in arms, but guess what? IT WONT MATTER.

At that time, in the governments eyes, we will be rallying to break the law. We won't be looked on as defenders of freedom, we will be labeled problem gamblers, radicals, greedy affiliates and the like. Thats what usually happens when people take a position unpopluar with the government isnt it?

I have the feeling that those sentiments are changing right now. People have condoned a lot of things in the last few years because of security considerations in the fight against terrorism. Many people, who voted for Bush in '04, are now feeling badly betrayed. People's eyes are open after we saw how DHS handled Katrina, how promoting democracies in the ME is very favorable to Islamists groups since they are the only ones condoned by their regimes, how the war in Iraq is about to erupt into a civil war, how we are selling vulnerable security assets (ports management) to our "friend", the UAE (Saddam and OBL used to be our friends as well when they were fighting our respective enemies, Iran and the the Soviet Union!). Plus a change, plus c'est la mme chose.

Perhaps the apathy of so many of us stems from the fact that you cannot trust any politician (Democrat or Republican) at any level of government, be it federal, state, or local. Every politician is just acting out of pure self-interest and cloaks his campaign agenda only to get elected. You can try to fight it for a while but then you end up very frustrated and stressed out and decide to just mind your own business, your own little world which already has its share of stresses, from thereon in.

I agree with you that it is better to be pro-active rather than wait and see until you start the fight from a position that has already become illegal.

 

[max1mike]

might be time to do a pre-emptive strike in case this actually happens.

maybe set up another site with a name that has nothing to do with gambling.

i am a member at a few sites that the content has NOTHING to do with the name. i know that i surely would miss coming here if in fact my isp (adelphia) decided i shouldn't be hanging out with all us outlaws

 

[suzecat]

Guys I have access via Adelphia Powerlink and when I got up Weds morning they WERE blocking all Gambling Content to my PC. I attempted to visit over 100 different sites including Casinomeister, Winner Online, My sites, Neteller, My affiliate accounts and ALL were blocked and returned a 404 error. When I attempted to visit retail sites I own I had no problem. I could visit ANY site I wanted with the exception of sites that featured online gambling content.

I shut down my broadband connection and went to dial up and a different ISP and instantly my access to all sites was restored. If this was a router issue in Canada or regional outage this would NOT have been possible.

I signed off dial up and reconnected Broadband and access to all sites was again denied. I checked about thirty sites before I was convinced something was definately going on. I disconnected broadband again and went back to dial up. All sites were once again available.

I called Adelphia on the phone and was routed to a recording which stated that there was a regional access issue effecting internet users in the South East United states and that their engineers were aware of the problem and were working on it.

I can't imagine HOW a regional access issue would ONLY effect Gambling Related sites and WHY it would only effect Adelphia clients.

A few hours later I once again had full access via Adelphia. So apparently they had completed whatever they were up to and shut down the filters.

This is not a potential scenario or a what if discussion. IT HAPPENED.

I am firmly convinced that Adelphia was testing a filter set. I am not sure why or what their future intentions are, but I can assure you they did employ this filter for several hours this past week.

I don't want to get into a political dissertation, but I would point out to those who are so confident that in America we would never see censorship or that there would be some huge backlash if there was, where was the huge backlash to a war fought over weapons of mass destruction that never existed? Where was the huge backlash over illegal wiretaps of thousands of US citizens? Where was the huge backlash to a budget surplus that evaporated and was replaced by trillions of dollars in debt? I hate to say it, but the sad fact is Americans don't create huge backlashes to ANYTHING the government does anymore. They dont have time, media access or the passion to do it. IF these laws pass and are enacted people will not bat an eye. Oh yeah, those of us that enjoy gambling online or earn money as affiliates will be up in arms, but guess what? IT WONT MATTER.

At that time, in the governments eyes, we will be rallying to break the law. We won't be looked on as defenders of freedom, we will be labeled problem gamblers, radicals, greedy affiliates and the like. Thats what usually happens when people take a position unpopluar with the government isnt it?

Professor, you have my attention -- and my sympathy -- as being temporarily blocked from your interests must have been unsettling.

Were any non-cable based internet connections involved in this filtering operation? I have not read that any were affected so I suspect it is something promulgated by FCC regulated companies.

OK, so they did their filtering test (and were able to prove it could be done) and now it is over (no filtering). IF this were to become a future permanent change, your recourse would be to use non FCC regulated internet access. I believe this was similarly the route taken when banks were replaced by Neteller. There's always a new way to get to where you want to go.

Personally I do not have a problem being labeled a radical. It is a cross my generation (baby boomer) bears with respect.

 

[Peaceful1]

Let's just hope time is on our side...

and possibly hindsight (similiar bills have been presented and turned down in 1997 and 1999)


I took a look at Adelphia's HSI Service Agreement: Outdated URL (Invalid)

"You
understand and agree that the Adelphia Broadband Service may be
temporarily limited, interrupted or curtailed due to system capacity
limitations; governmental actions; force majeure; events beyond Adelphias
control; or temporary equipment or systems failures or modifications,..."


Likewise, there were also the standard outlined provisions intended primarily for emails, spam and viruses, but... there is the possibility somewhere in the fine print it covers any transmitted data whatsoever. This is merely speculation, but it shows that in the event something like this would occur, they already have their terms documented in their user agreements, which are scattered with "hold harmless" statements and such:


"These measures
may include the use of third-party software either on a stand-alone basis
or in conjunction with other filtering methods. Adelphia reserves the right to use such filtering measures at any time, with or without notice to
You, in its sole discretion."

 

[Slotster!]

I can't access casinomeister anymore on my PDA, as my ISP classes it as "inappropriate content". That's T-Mobile GPRS... Bit too Big Brother for my liking, hence why they'll be getting binned when my contracts up next month.

 

[suzecat]

and possibly hindsight (similiar bills have been presented and turned down in 1997 and 1999)


I took a look at Adelphia's HSI Service Agreement: Outdated URL (Invalid)

"You
understand and agree that the Adelphia Broadband Service may be
temporarily limited, interrupted or curtailed due to system capacity
limitations; governmental actions; force majeure; events beyond Adelphias
control; or temporary equipment or systems failures or modifications,..."


Likewise, there were also the standard outlined provisions intended primarily for emails, spam and viruses, but... there is the possibility somewhere in the fine print it covers any transmitted data whatsoever. This is merely speculation, but it shows that in the event something like this would occur, they already have their terms documented in their user agreements, which are scattered with "hold harmless" statements and such:


"These measures
may include the use of third-party software either on a stand-alone basis
or in conjunction with other filtering methods. Adelphia reserves the right to use such filtering measures at any time, with or without notice to
You, in its sole discretion."

Weren't Adelphia head honchos busted out a while ago (2002) by the SEC? Pondering the impact of being beholden to the feds...........

 

[42ndSSD]

Obviously I can't speak for individual ISPs, but any laws banning online gambling sites will be struck down as First Amendment violations, without question. Even for something as "insidious" as gambling; they already allow sites on subjects perceived as far more evil (including sites which sell drugs and contact lenses without prescriptions, not just talk about them).

(Also keep in mind that some ISPs do filter "adult content" sites on request, and this may include gambling-related sites. I believe when I signed up with PacHell a few years ago they offered to do this.)

More importantly, they can pass umpteen laws banning online gambling but I don't know how they're going to enforce them. Encrypted IP tunneling can easily work around any sort of block/filter they want to put in place; given the amount of interest in gambling online, people will inevitably offer such a service.

The only even partially effective way would be to prevent people from depositing money with the casinos, but this too will be a failure. There's just too much potential profit involved. Consider how much money Neteller is making off of Internet gambling, then multiply it by whatever the increase in "service fees" will be... (Heck, I'd be generous and only charge 15% )

Finally, this has nothing to do with politics. It would've come up no matter who was President, it just so happens that it's reached critical mass right now. The desire to ban it is entirely about fame, greed, and graft on the part of a few individuals in Congress/Senate.

Overseas gambling operators don't line Congresscritter pockets, but we can be quite certain gambling interests in the US do. And it's far easier to legally eliminate a competitor than try to compete.

 

[Peaceful1]

exactly...

Weren't Adelphia head honchos busted out a while ago (2002) by the SEC? Pondering the impact of being beholden to the feds...........

Their site boasts the reconstruction under their new leadership after their bankruptcy.. and it gets even more interesting looking at this article:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[nafanny29]

I think that there would be more protest than imagined if they tried to ban gaming sites. It would look like the start of state controlled internet and I cant see the US public supporting that kind of thing.

Its like if they tried to filter out something I had ZERO interest in I would still feel very angry indeed at the thought of the internet being policed, and im sure the vast majority of the population would feel just as outraged, thats why I dont think it will happen.

 

[jetset]

I don't believe you can equate resistance to the US approach to weapons of mass destruction (which was a pretty scary thought back then) with ISP filtering of online gambling sites, Lou.

The latter is actually likely to make for more domestic public interest imo because it directly impinges on the individual's right to choose his or her entertainment and the fundamental right of being able to access a resource as free and powerful as the Internet.

I therefore continue to believe that this would be a major cause of public aggravation. Time will tell, if this incident is what you believe it to be, and in the meantime you have your opinion and I have mine.

I was actually trying to contact Adelphia for a press comment today at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

because I would like to hear more detail from them and pose a few questions based on the Professor's post in order to test their side of the story.

Regrettably the site is very US-oriented and as a foreign enquirer I could not get past the on-site enquiry email form with my details.

Then I got to wondering whether it might not be an idea for (perhaps the Prof?) to contact a inquisitive journalist and interest him or her in pursuing this story with Adelphia? Having a newshound sniffing around may make them more inclined to expand on what seems to be a dubious response thus far, and this is the sort of story that has really good and provocative potential.

 

[GrandMaster]

I wish the same amount of effort went into stopping spam (the CAN-SPAM Act is a very appropriate name, spammer can spam) and blocking sites selling V1@gra and Ci@l1s.

 

[winbig]

I wish the same amount of effort went into stopping spam (the CAN-SPAM Act is a very appropriate name, spammer can spam) and blocking sites selling V1@gra and Ci@l1s.

Such an appropriate and true definition

AFAIK, it's definately illegal to buy meds online (from outside the country) from within the USA, but yet there's nothing in the works to block those sites? So hypocritical. Has anyone else thought that the main force behind this may be the b&m casinos within the USA pressuring the gov't (money talks) into blocking online gambling sites? I'm sure it's got to hurt their bottom line, even by just a little bit.

 

[Peaceful1]

I was actually trying to contact Adelphia for a press comment today at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

because I would like to hear more detail from them and pose a few questions based on the Professor's post in order to test their side of the story.

Regrettably the site is very US-oriented and as a foreign enquirer I could not get past the on-site enquiry email form with my details.

Jetset,

I'm sure you probably have already noticed this on their website - Link:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

but I was just wondering if you were going to pursue it this way, and if you can keep us informed on the status. Since you are in a press/media group, this is very helpful as far as getting more confirmed information, at least from Adelphia's standpoint...

 

[cipher]

Then I got to wondering whether it might not be an idea for (perhaps the Prof?) to contact a inquisitive journalist and interest him or her in pursuing this story with Adelphia? Having a newshound sniffing around may make them more inclined to expand on what seems to be a dubious response thus far, and this is the sort of story that has really good and provocative potential.

Hi JET:

It might not be a bad idea to approach MICHAEL BRUNKER from MSNBC.com on this. As you may recall he was most helpful to my efforts in getting the word out on the PIRATE fiasco a couple of years ago. I've instant messaged you Michael's email address.

Have a good one.

 

[Westland Bowl]

Welcome back, Cipher! You have a good one yourself, too!

 

[mjs]

Another possibility

I know I am new to the forum and late to the discussion, but has anyone considered the possibility that there is another explanation?

Say, for example there actually was a routing issue, and it only affected sites outside of the US. During the outage, did you try any other non-US based sites?

 

[theAPCW]

Hello all...

I just had my account approved here and am very happy to see you guys are already all over this topic! =0)

I have a link to write to your state rep's in the US : Old / Expired Link

And I have a form letter to make your life easier... so change it as you like, tone it down... tone it up... just send something please! Each one you send will be considered the voice of hundreds of others unheard voices!

Write write write!

Dear Rep. ________________,

I am writing you to let you know that one of your constituent, Rep Bob Goodlatte, has introduced a bill (HR 4777) that is unequalled it it's hypocrisy, lies, and discrimination of an industry.

His proposal to ban online gambling is riddled with lies, half-truths, and paranoid suspicions. This industry does not target children and it never has. This industry is not filled with criminals but honest hard working men and women of integrity. This industry does not hurt individuals or their families, but supports patriotic Americans who helped vote you into office.

There are millions of American citizens across this great country who enjoy playing a $20 game of poker online, or spending $50 at an online slot machine, and do so responsibly with no harm to themselves or their families. Goodlatte proposes to penalize these millions of responsible tax-payers by a distorted view of the facts, and by twisting statistics to fit his own moral agenda.

The American people do not support this bill, and I am holding you responsible to make my voice heard on this! The online gaming industry is LEGAL and REGULATED within the United Kingdom! It is accepted and run from other civilized countries around the globe, and the real issue here is MONEY... everything else is smoke and mirrors to support Goodlatte's pursuit of this money.

The online gambling industry did NOT grow to a $12 billion a year business by HURTING people. That $12 billion did NOT come from targeting minors! It came from a dedication to customer service and an HONEST business model. The competition is too great to act unethically, and the rewards are too great to operate dishonestly. In fact, with all the SELF-REGULATION that goes on inside this industry, I dare say we have less dirty laundry that the Congress with which you serve.

Goodlatte has failed to research this subject completely. He has failed to realize the potential of this industry. And he has failed to recognize the will of the American people. I implore you to act before he casts this great nation back into the dark ages of prohibition... which we know does not work.

If you pass this legislation, you will be equally responsible for yet another "war" against your own people. One that will wage for years, and one where honest, responsible, tax paying, patriotic American citizens will be persecuted and prosecuted for an act of recreation which they should have a right to enjoy in the privacy of their own homes.

 

[managra]

If opponents of this bill really wanted to take a stand on this, the time would be now, while it is in the hands of the House Judiciary Committee. As this link Outdated URL (Invalid) quotes:

"Perhaps the most important phase of the legislative process is the action by committees. The committees provide the most intensive consideration to a proposed measure as well as the forum where the public is given their opportunity to be heard."

Thanks for your post, Cynthia. Anyone knows who exactly are members of the House Judiciary Committee so that we can send letters/email to them?

I also like Jetset's idea to pass on the Adelphia incident to the media. It's the right time and the right climate to speak out against yet another attempt to shackle our freedoms.

 

[winbig]

see below, double posted for some reason.