Is this a normal situation for an accredited casino?

[ValDes]

Hi folks!

Have been here for a while and what to say - I tip my hat to most of you! CM and his dedicated members are always my number one source of real and genuine information regarding gambling industry!:notworthy

Now. I have a very simple question and since I didn't managed to get an answer for it nowhere else, I came to ask here. To make the long story short, I noticed yesterday that two of the CM accredited casinos here - Red Flush and La Vida operate with an expired license. Here's the prove for each of them:

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Kahnawake Certificate for Casino Red Flush - oh,what a surprise, the link is down and does not wotk anymore but it was exactly the same as the tho one for La Vida!
So, both certificates state clearly that has expired on 31st January 2013. I contacted the casino support at La Vida and at first I was told don't worry, we did really renew that licence but the webmasters are unavailable at the moment and thus we didn't manage to change the link. After five minutes or so in the live chat it appears that changing the link was not their business but to Kahnawake Commisson. But one way or another I was assured both casinos have a valid license.
I hope (and I really really hope, otherwise it would be huge scandal) both casinos are simply OK with the aforementioned licenses and it was just a matter of poor webmasters work. But... But if not? I was told it should be corrected on Monday, so let's see what will happen.
What do you guys think about this?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Seems nothing major to worry about. The KGC still have New Media (their parent company) listed in their recently updated list (Jan 2013). It would appear to be a webmastering issue as stated, perhaps due to the recent expiry, and the fact that the new certificate would only have been valid from Friday, with a weekend getting in the way of a prompt update of the website.

It is possible to ask the KGC directly about any such concerns, and they should reassure you about the license still being valid, and it being a webmastering issue.

Despite earlier poor performance, the last few years have seen the KGC rise to being one of the best regulators where it comes to looking after the interests of players. You will see this confirmed in Max's blog regarding the 2012 PAB summary.

 

[ValDes]

Thanks for the quick answer!

Yep, I take a look at the PAB summary, great job done by Maxd! And yes, I noticed KGC is desperately trying to raise its reputation in the last couple of years or so. Actually I sent them an e-mail yesterday, even before contacting La Vida's support, but still nothing in return. Yes, I know it is weekend after all and so on, but still all this situation seems rather concerning to me!

I was just wondering about a possible situation which might occur. What if someone from the La Vida's members for example hit the Mega Jackpot in Dark Knight, worth 1+ millions today and it turns out the casino does not have a valid license and decide to deny payment of that jackpot?! Yeah, I know too many 'if' here, but still quite interesting. What do you think?

 

[maxd]

IMO the KGC _has_ raised its reputation: after three years of hard work and exceptional results I think the new people and their infrastucture deserve to be taken as fully legit. See last year's Phoenix award, for example.

Also, remember that many of the KGC people are en route to London for ICE. If they're anything like me they're packing their bags just now not checking their email.

That said we're meeting with them Tuesday and I'll raise your question then.

 

[jetset]

Let me start by saying kudos to you for spotting this anomaly - alert and interested players are a good thing to keep proper regulators on their toes

I'm guessing this is some sort of admin screw-up; as others here have noted the KGC has made significant improvements over the past few years and is unlikely to allow anything questionable to occur that could undermine all their hard work.

 

[ValDes]

Also, remember that many of the KGC people are en route to London for ICE. If they're anything like me they're packing their bags just now not checking their email.
.

Sorry Max, but could not agree with you about this! Going to a conference (any conference!) shouldn't be a reason for someone to abandon his work and duties, right? Or at least they are supposed to put a table 'Sorry, we're at ICE, go away now and come back in a week!', so that those of us working and playing and depositing (what is most important) through the weekend to know what's going on!

Anyway, I hope to see the renewed certificates today, attached properly to the websites of casino La Vida and Red FLush (as the CSR there has promised) and to forget about it!

And when talking about how KGC has already raised its reputation and trustworthiness and that you'll probably meet them at ICE, please ask them to do something with their

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. A good start would be allowing players to attach some docs or any other prooves they had. It would be nice to see a separate complaint form with an example or two of how to properly fill that form. Thank you in advance and wish you a success in the conference.

 

[ValDes]

Still waiting to see a valid license from La Vida and Red Flush!

Well, Monday is almost gone, and still no sign from a new or renewed Kahnawake license link at both the websites of casino La Vida and Red Flush as I was told on Saturday!

Just had a long chat session with a guy from Red Flush (his name was Craig) but he simply assured me that everything with their license was ok and again it was just some webmaster's issue. We will see, but I already have a bad feeling that something's wrong here.

 

[Simmo!]

I reckon you'll be OK. One of the guys that runs it is an ex-Microgaming exec I believe. They know the ropes. I'm seeing them in 2 days so if it's not up by Wed, post here and I'll have a quick word just to clarify.

 

[ValDes]

I've just noticed that RedFlush Host(their rep at CM) has already read the thread, but didn't answer. Interesting, if not even strange?!

 

[maxd]

Going to a conference (any conference!) shouldn't be a reason for someone to abandon his work and duties, right?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant there might be a slight delay, as in some number of hours. As it happens we saw them last night, I understand they are well aware of situation. Details to follow.

 

[fortunelounge]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

We have contacted the KGC. Our license certificate for Red Flush Casino has since been updated, you can view this by clicking on the following link below or visiting our website and clicking on the Kahnawake Gaming Comission logo.

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The Casino La Vida license certificate will be updated soon. I will update everyone on this thread once this has been completed.

Thank you.

Best Regards
Phillip
Casino Host

 

[ValDes]

We have contacted the KGC. Our license certificate for Red Flush Casino has since been updated, you can view this by clicking on the following link below or visiting our website and clicking on the Kahnawake Gaming Comission logo.

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Sorry to disapponit you Phillip, but there isn't any change in the link you have provided. It still links to the same certificate with the same Permit Expiration Date - 31 January 2013 stated in it!

Today is 5th Fabruary and if it was just some webmaster's job (as I was assured by some of your CSR), it would be done so far - 5 days are more than enough for that. Therefore I believe, I was given some pure run around by some of your representatives, which may be concidered as totally unacceptable for an accredited casino. Anyway, if I was in your shoes would find a way to show the new/renewed license to someone with an undisputed reputation here (if you think I'm not from that category) and to put an end to all speculations! If you have something to show, of course?!

 

[mattsgame]

Sorry to disapponit you Phillip, but there isn't any change in the link you have provided. It still links to the same certificate with the same Permit Expiration Date - 31 January 2013 stated in it!

Today is 5th Fabruary and if it was just some webmaster's job (as I was assured by some of your CSR), it would be done so far - 5 days are more than enough for that. Therefore I believe, I was given some pure run around by some of your representatives, which may be concidered as totally unacceptable for an accredited casino. Anyway, if I was in your shoes would find a way to show the new/renewed license to someone with an undisputed reputation here (if you think I'm not from that category) and to put an end to all speculations! If you have something to show, of course?!

Maybe clear your cookies or something?

The one I see that Phillip posted says the 31st January 2015

 

[ValDes]

Maybe clear your cookies or something?

The one I see that Phillip posted says the 31st January 2015

Thanks!
It seems that my Firefox was the problem, but work just fine with IE9.
Thanks God, everything with the license is ok now - it is valid until 31 January 2015

 

[vinylweatherman]

Perhaps this shows that something needs tightening up in the renewal procedures. It seems that letting a certificate actually expire before updating it can lead to a short period where players that do click on the seal can get the worrying impression that the casino is unlicenced. Whilst this is an accredited casino, and the risk small, there are rogues who have had CS lie to players to ask about the status of their license to hide the fact that they have had it yanked, or have decided to abandon it.

I recall that when TUSK group had their eCogra seals pulled, they sent a rep here to bullshit us into believing it was a minor administrative manner, and nothing to worry about. 2 weeks later they went bust, and poker players lost their balances. Because of this, even minor administrative problems should not be allowed to occur when it comes to matters of licensing checks.

It would be unlikely that a casino using MGS could get away with denying payment of a Mega Moolah jackpot merely by letting their license lapse and thinking this means they can do what they like. Sadly, there have been a number of cases where Playtech casinos have refused to pay progressives to winners on unjustified grounds, and in those cases, neither Playtech nor the licensing authorities did anything about it. Playtech therefore have already had their reputation tarnished over this, but so far MGS have not, and so they would never want there to be a first time. MGS progressives are paid by MGS from pooled funds, and I believe the procedure is different from that at Playtech (who simply send the funds to the casino for them to pay the player).

Of far more concern is not getting paid for the smaller amounts, where reputation of the individual casino and it's licensing jurisdiction is the best guide to the risk of "getting screwed over".

 

[ValDes]

Perhaps this shows that something needs tightening up in the renewal procedures. It seems that letting a certificate actually expire before updating it can lead to a short period where players that do click on the seal can get the worrying impression that the casino is unlicenced. Whilst this is an accredited casino, and the risk small, there are rogues who have had CS lie to players to ask about the status of their license to hide the fact that they have had it yanked, or have decided to abandon it.

I couldn't say it better!
Giving the opportunity for such issues to occur is not something I would say is going to help in increasing the online casino transparancy. But that's just me.