Is it true that affiliates make 25%-50% off MY LOSSES?!!

[Simmo!]

Back to mr alphabet's original question: Do affiliates make 25% - 50% off player losses?

25% is the "norm". A few go to 30% or 35% but only based on the player revenue being big. Some are only 15% or 20%. Depends. Also bear in mind that if you get say 2 players at one casino, one wins, one loses, they can go some way to canceling each other out. Also some "carry over" negatives...for example one casino I had a player win $7k back last year and I'm still trying to get back into the positive. Overall obviously players lose in the long run else the casinos wouldn't be in business I guess

 

[BingoT]

I do this as a hobby

I look at it this way.If someone goes to the site and joins with no links from an affiliate the gaming site your at Wins.
Like myself I do this as a hobby thing and whatever I get goes to a good cause and I don't make much but what I do goes towards some nice stuff for Handicap Children or a Family that needs a helping hand.
And I have some people saying bad things how can I help someone if your making them gamble if I help people.
I tell anyone if you know someone that needs some help pleases let me know about them.
Some people think I'm full of ------ but I tell all I will be happy to show you around. I do my best in what I do and like always I thank all the Webmasters that let me post.
At this time I'm thinking on donating a bench for a Children's Hospital with a plague that reads From all the Webmasters across the world that promotes online gaming and the players. I will take a picture of it when it's done for me to share with all of you.
Thanks Byran for having me here.
God Bless
Happy 4th of July to all
Tom
Oh I forgot to say Please I don't want anyone to feel sorry or they have to join anything that they will lose money at.Go to your local children's hospital and bring them something. or give to MDA
Thanks

 

[maxfalcon]

25% is the "norm". A few go to 30% or 35% but only based on the player revenue being big. Some are only 15% or 20%. Depends. Also bear in mind that if you get say 2 players at one casino, one wins, one loses, they can go some way to canceling each other out. Also some "carry over" negatives...for example one casino I had a player win $7k back last year and I'm still trying to get back into the positive. Overall obviously players lose in the long run else the casinos wouldn't be in business I guess

There are also some affiliate programs that deduct some of their fees on the affiliate commissions, like bonuses, jackpot contributions, charge-backs...

I would also add that even with the 25% announced, between all the technical hassles with tracking, plus competition and other various considerations, an average affiliate get in fact 10%-20% in commissions, instead of the 25%-30% really generated by his/her website (my opinion).

 

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

there are some really ignorant posts here and I'll be pleased to tell you why.

(I apologize if someone has already touched on some of these but frankly I couldn't wait to get to respond once I'd read about the first 3 or 4 posts).

so rather than shoot down a bunch of uninformed posts I'm going to list a few facts. And they are facts.

1. The biggest reason you get paid and get fair-odds games are because of affiliates. - wake up those that don't realize this. as one person, or even as a group of people posting on a forum you are not going to hold the kind of leverage that is held by a successful affiliate. Furthermore on that particular aspect is that if you had to go strictly by what posters said about a casino ... well I give you CM's board as example. Nearly every casino you could imagine has been subject in the complaints department. ( I say this at risk of being wrong as I've never actually surfed the whole thing, but I feel confident saying that just from the threads I've seen). Now whether or not the casino actually deserved to be there is in some cases impossible to know, but in many cases it is possible to know if you have a true understanding of the industry and have an informed history. I can give examples of this from recent situations if necessary (Bell Rock's current issue about freezing certain player's accounts - most "in the know" ... know that its still a safe place to play that will pay you ... but to read that thread ... )

what's important to know is which affiliate site will go to bat for you and which won't.
not all are 3rd-party owned. There are many which are created by the very casinos they list although they give appearance that is not the case.

2. Not all affiliates get paid by a % of losses. There are in some cases 4 ways of getting paid.
a. upfront as CM does. (this option is often only for the truly big guys)
b. paid per player. (they receive a set price for each player signed - a one time payment : though not an option I would advise or seek out)
c. % of losses. this in most cases is 25%, sometimes (at best) 35%. Any claim to more than that is always ... basically bs. They tell you that and then hit you with all these unmentioned amin costs, bonuses are often deducted 100% from our side, a real popular ploy with RTG casinos. An honest 50%? not a chance.
d. % of wager. fairly new model which pays according to how much you gamble. not how much you lose. I view it with a lot of promise because like Dom, CM, and any other half-intelligent affiliate in this for the long run .... we know that you MUST have winners! Trust me. ... and I say this to the casinos all the time because it amazes me how petty they can get ... and forgive my immodesty but I have on many occasions paid players out of my pocket at times when I felt the casino didn't go the extra mile or in fact I've even sent money to players when they were having to wait too long for a casino to pay them.

all of the latter is made possible because of the money I make.

also you should be aware that absolutely not one penny extra ever! has it cost a player because they signed up thru an affiliate's link.

And for those of you that thought you were so smart to NEVER sign up thru an affiliate.. well my friends when you have trouble its you and the casino. Had you been smart enough to have chosen thru a reputable affilate casino portal you would have recourse.

Further than that; and I'm sorry again for being immodest but had you signed up thru my sites .. you'd have enjoyed a 3rd-party cash-backed guarantee that you'd get paid when you cashed in and against the casino going bankrupt while holding your money.

... I apologize for sounding like a commercial Brian but it really gets my blood boiling to read some of the so-uninformed posts that i have read.

and btw I'm not taking anything away from Brian. my guarantee is because I know i will in the end get satisfaction for my player, just as Brian does for anybody who's ever had a legit situation.

.. what a bunch of ungrateful, ... unthoughtful ... people. All the times you've read all the threads where this man has went the extra mile to get a player treated right and then for me to read where someone says he NEVER signed up thru an aff links.

If you can't see that the biggest reason you're getting paid is because of people like Brian then you are beyond reaching because you're obviously in serious need of a reality check.

... I have more but need a break.

..........

here's a little history on why affiliates came to be on the net.

I not positive but I imagine it started with the porn industry as they have usually led the way in innovation on the net.

there could have been a gazillion membership porn sites instead of the free ones that are out there now. everybody with a couple of dirty pictures (remember this is when the net first started) would be charging to see them and that meant they'd also be competing for advertising space.

so you can see with so many competing that it meant certain death for the majority. Only those with the deepest pockets would prosper because they could afford to advertise and thus would outlast their competition. (and the deepest pockets .. especially in the casino industry would have been the ones cheating players since they'd never have to pay anything out)

So somebody said hey, instead of you paying all that money to create the site, keep it updated and all the other costs of having a site .... what if I was to say that I'd split the profit with you that is made off my site for all the people you send that sign up. That way you can spend your money towards advertising instead of towards keeping the site up. We both stand to win because yes, you have the better deal ... if it were only the two of us ... but I will have this deal with literally 100s, maybe 1000s. So I'll easily make my money because of the great quantity of members I will have gained.


its a win-win situation where as far as the consumer goes. ... they are not effected one bit. The advantage to the consumer is they now have one more person or place to register a complaint if the service or product is not up to par.


just like there are a ton of scam casinos out there, or casinos that don't really care about how you get treated, so are there affiliate sites. And just as you'd have to be careful and look around a little bit before you found each respective ... quality .... casino (which in between you'd kiss a lot of toads before you found those princes) ... you must also do when choosing a casino portal that you know will do more than just provide links. (although that's still smarter than using a search engine because usually if a casino is listed on a portal site there is a better chance it will pay than if found simply off a search engine).

 

[BingoT]

Well said Well done bb1webs great post

Well said Well done bb1webs great post
This sums it up I say.

 

[Casinomeister]

.. what a bunch of ungrateful, ... unthoughtful ... people.

But I think it was only one guy who was bitching about this.

All the times you've read all the threads where this man has went the extra mile to get a player treated right and then for me to read where someone says he NEVER signed up thru an aff links.

If you're referring to Vesuvio, he did buy me a DVD and Frank Zappa CD. Thanks, man!

 

[dominique]

By the way, your profile says you're in Canada, but as far as I can tell - you're in Hong Kong. What's up with that?

Spoofed IP? Hmmmm....

25% is the "norm". A few go to 30% or 35% but only based on the player revenue being big. Some are only 15% or 20%. Depends. Also bear in mind that if you get say 2 players at one casino, one wins, one loses, they can go some way to canceling each other out. Also some "carry over" negatives...for example one casino I had a player win $7k back last year and I'm still trying to get back into the positive. Overall obviously players lose in the long run else the casinos wouldn't be in business I guess

Also keep in mind, it's NOT 25% of losses that the affiliate shares. It's 25% of everything.

And while a casino can easily absorb the winnings of their players, affiliates cannot. If your profit for the month is $100, and you have a $10.000 winner, you are liable for $2,500 of the winnings, 25% of the bonuses given, 25% of progressive fees and whatever else the casinos can come up with to charge you.

Now many casinos do carry over the losses, so in this case you will likely never see another penny here. Of the ones that do carry over losses, if you are a well producing affiliate ( top 5% ) they MAY wipe out part of that loss. Just because they want you to keep working to try to send them players.

Many will not carry this loss into the next month but you are dead for this month.

How many of you can afford to skip a month of income?

As most affiliates will tell you, it can take a year of full time work or longer to create a site that is good enough for the search engines to list it and send you some people looking for info.

How many of you would spend all your free time for a year for free to create a site that has lots of info for players?

Right, most affiliates drop out before they ever start seeing a penny.

also think online casinos should be spending less on advertising (including affiliates) which is targeting getting new players in the door, and spending more on keeping players.

Yes!!!!!!!!!! I surely agree, and so do most affiliates I bet. Players should be rewarded for loyalty, I would gladly pay loyalty rewards out of pocket! I pay 25% of the bonuses anyway, heck, I'd pay more than that if it were spent on rewarding existing players.

Affiliates have created all the info you have come to rely on. Bryan, the wizard, all the how to articles you can google, all these really important tools have all been created by affiliates, in the hopes that you will thank them by clicking on their link, which doesn't cost a penny.

 

[Vesuvio]

Hi all,

there are some really ignorant posts here and I'll be pleased to tell you why.

I can only try and return the compliment

1. The biggest reason you get paid and get fair-odds games are because of affiliates. - wake up those that don't realize this. as one person, or even as a group of people posting on a forum you are not going to hold the kind of leverage that is held by a successful affiliate.

Maybe in the absolute Wild West days of internet casinos - but the reason there's a good chance of fair-games and getting paid nowadays is because of the main "watchdog" forums like Casinomeister and WOL, and to extent organisations like eCOGRA.

Although both sites with forums obviously do have an affiliate element I don't think it's right to say that they have influence primarily as affiliates - they have influence as highly visible authorities on the casino industry. What's written in the forums, and the choices Bryan makes about casinos to support, matter. Obviously it'd be better if there were real regulation, but for now...

Furthermore on that particular aspect is that if you had to go strictly by what posters said about a casino ... well I give you CM's board as example. Nearly every casino you could imagine has been subject in the complaints department....
Now whether or not the casino actually deserved to be there is in some cases impossible to know, but in many cases it is possible to know if you have a true understanding of the industry and have an informed history. I can give examples of this from recent situations if necessary (Bell Rock's current issue about freezing certain player's accounts - most "in the know" ... know that its still a safe place to play that will pay you ... but to read that thread ... )

I think reading that thread and others on Belle Rock gives you a very good idea about the group. They'll generally pay you, and the average "recreational" player shouldn't have too many problems, but they have terrible customer support. The handling of the situation (lies, absurd requests and so on) is just the latest in a long line of complaints. Unless you've run out of other MG casinos I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

And for those of you that thought you were so smart to NEVER sign up thru an affiliate.. well my friends when you have trouble its you and the casino. Had you been smart enough to have chosen thru a reputable affilate casino portal you would have recourse.

No, you have the same ultimate recourse - eCOGRA, Montana overseas & the like - and then Casinomeister. OK, some affiliates might give you another avenue, but I'll take my chances. I've played at an awful lot of casinos and never failed to be paid yet - though Bellerock pushed it close.

Further than that; and I'm sorry again for being immodest but had you signed up thru my sites .. you'd have enjoyed a 3rd-party cash-backed guarantee that you'd get paid when you cashed in and against the casino going bankrupt while holding your money.

I'm glad this gimmick works to make you some money - but really, how many casinos do you remember going bust? I take it you only offer links to fairly reputable casinos, so the chances of players needing your insurance are verging on zero - especially as I'm assuming you won't pay if there's any sort of fraud, or serious suspicion of fraud.

.. what a bunch of ungrateful, ... unthoughtful ... people. All the times you've read all the threads where this man has went the extra mile to get a player treated right and then for me to read where someone says he NEVER signed up thru an aff links.

Bear in mind I'm a bonus hunter so I'll usually lose money for any affiliate who gets a percentage of my losses - I'm actually doing you a favour I'm simply more comfortable dealing directly with casinos, in the same way as I prefer to avoid middlemen when making other purchases (where possible). Oh, yeah, and as I said, I don't have a positive enough opinion of the on-line casino industry to encourage more people to make a living from it. For all the information or services you can possibly provide a huge banner saying "DON'T GAMBLE" would be of more benefit to society

Besides, I'd say people taking the time to post regularly on Casinomeister is also helping out Bryan by keeping this site sharp and relevant.

its a win-win situation where as far as the consumer goes. ... they are not effected one bit. The advantage to the consumer is they now have one more person or place to register a complaint if the service or product is not up to par.

The mind slightly boggles when thinking how this works in relation to the porn industry

I don't want to pursue it, but you could make a counter argument that affiliates cost the casinos money that they could use to offer players better bonuses. So if everyone got their info on casinos and then signed up directly from the websites...

 

[bb1webs]

V,

if you aren't smart enough to always take the best chance you have ... then I can't find arguement to convince you otherwise.

btw; how do you think the "wild west days" came to see their end?

casinos that were prevalent in ripping people off are gone now because of affiliate sites warning players.

gimmick? if that's the best you can do to find fault with my cash guarantee then .... *but how grand of you to belittle someone who is making an obvious attempt to give something back



lastly, ... I can't say for certain but I'd bet large that Brian started out as an affiliate and wasn't able to sell ad spots upfront until later on.

ps.

I have had many offers of same pay upfront offers as what Brian recieves though I'm sure on a much lesser amount: (I decline because I have a small amount of surfers that a casino would view as thinking they were ripped-off until such time (if they stayed with it) that it proved otherwise. Its just easier for me to take the risk than to ask the casinos and prove myself that way. and I also believe Dom mentioned she sells that way. Its not unheard of by any means.

 

[bb1webs]

before I forget; I apologize for thinking that more than one person had made posts agreeable with the first.

 

[soflat]

Further than that; and I'm sorry again for being immodest but had you signed up thru my sites .. you'd have enjoyed a 3rd-party cash-backed guarantee that you'd get paid when you cashed in and against the casino going bankrupt while holding your money.

So if I deposit $50 and win $2000, your 'guarantee' only covers me for $50 (my deposit)? I'll pass. Vesuvio is right, that is just a gimmick.

The rest of your post is just you talking down to us so, I won't respond further.

 

[Vesuvio]

if you aren't smart enough to always take the best chance you have ... then I can't find arguement to convince you otherwise.

If I was motivated purely by money I'd sign up through an affiliate that automatically gives me some of the money they get back. It's a bit absurd of you to suggest I'm a fool if I don't sign up through your site. Remember Bryan offers his services to anyone who's a member of this site. I'll stick with him if you don't mind (I might have clicked on a few more links if I'd known he gets a fee up front).

btw; how do you think the "wild west days" came to see their end?

casinos that were prevalent in ripping people off are gone now because of affiliate sites warning players.

I don't know enough of the history of the on-line casino industry, but I suspect that's a somewhat jaundiced view of what happened.

gimmick? if that's the best you can do to find fault with my cash guarantee then .... *but how grand of you to belittle someone who is making an obvious attempt to give something back

Oh come on! I argued my case. Are you seriously for one second suggesting you're trying "to give something back"? It's a marketing strategy. Congratulations if it works, but I said exactly the same about the same guarantee offered by the Online Players Union (if that's what it's called), so don't feel unduly picked upon.

 

[bb1webs]

I don't want to pursue it, but you could make a counter argument that affiliates cost the casinos money that they could use to offer players better bonuses. So if everyone got their info on casinos and then signed up directly from the websites...

you still don't get it.

perhaps the porn industry was a bad example though I think likely true to its mark.

imagine you and 3 friends all selling lemonade on the same street corner.

all 3 have to spend the costs of making the product and providing something to sell it out of:

and it takes each person the full amount of their money to just accomplish that:

one day one person says he will pay all the costs of providing the lemonade and place to sell out of: ... and will split the profit 50/50 with anybody who brings in a customer via their own means.

now the other three have money to advertise on other streets to bring in customers that otherwise would never have been able to be reached.

the person that is picking up the costs of providing the store and product makes up the difference because he's getting 50% off 3 people that he'd otherwise never have seen and on top of all that; you've eliminated all your competition.. and I think the other side's advantage is self-explanatory.

 

[bb1webs]

V I can provide people who will go to bat for me in a second because they remember that I did for them.

that includes to one player that I sent $300 because his $800 cash-in took two weeks to get there. if you'd like to read about the whole thing visit this link Link Removed

enough said.

 

[Vesuvio]

the person that is picking up the costs of providing the store and product makes up the difference because he's getting 50% off 3 people that he'd otherwise never have seen

I was never seriously questioning the fact the affiliate system works, though I suspect you reach a saturation point when it can be counter-productive.

Anyway, going back to the charming lemonade example. What if the people who get told about the stall wander around the block and come back and the seller gets all the money without paying commision? That was my hypothetical situation. It may be in the interests of casinos and affiliates to cooperate, but there are also pretty decent incentives for back-stabbing

 

[soflat]

Anyway, going back to the charming lemonade example. What if the people who get told about the stall wander around the block and come back and the seller gets all the money without paying commision?

I don't think they get the guarantee then.

They are at the mercy of the lemonade stand owner who the affiliate told them about.

 

[bb1webs]

V, I never said I had a better deal than Brian.

in fact: we offer the same thing. I make a guarantee because I don't have the forum and am not as well-known as Brian so to compensate: I make that offer.

I have also have in my terms on that: that because ultimately what you want is the casino to pay you the full amount you've won;.... that if/when I am able to achieve that: I'd like back the money I sent you. (this is however totally up to the player and not binding in any way. I do it that way so they don't think I'm trying to run some kind of scam ... or gimmick. ... sigh.

this is a financial incentive at all times for me ... to get the player treated in a just and honorable manor.

exactly what Brian does.

I'm in no way trying to compete with him because it would be like rudolph competing with Santa to .... be Santa.

 

[bb1webs]

It may be in the interests of casinos and affiliates to cooperate, but there are also pretty decent incentives for back-stabbing

true. but the only person at risk of getting stabbed is the affiliate. The casino has no extra cost because if not for the affiliate; the player wouldn't have been there in the first place.

now I know you're going to say they'd find it eventually. That is correct. but also keep in mind if there aren't going to be affiliates then there are going to be a heck of a lot more lemonade stands to wade thru.


ps.

I'm quitting now. If you can't find reason in my arguement then i say good luck to you and your (on your own) endeavors with the casinos you find ... however it is you find them.

 

[elscrabinda]

Arguing with affiliates never gets you anywhere so I'll stay clear of this thread.

Just one quick comment though. BingoT if you ever go through with this I may be hospitalised myself by the violent nausea that such a picture would provoke. Please don't. Donate a bench by all means but please don't try and use it to promote casinos.

At this time I'm thinking on donating a bench for a Children's Hospital with a plaque that reads From all the Webmasters across the world that promotes online gaming and the players. I will take a picture of it when it's done for me to share with all of you.

 

[Vesuvio]

I'm quitting now. If you can't find reason in my arguement then i say good luck to you and your (on your own) endeavors with the casinos you find ... however it is you find them.

Fair enough - I'm sure I'll manage somehow.

p.s. argument, not arguement! I let it go the first few times

 

[lots0]

Sour Grapes

Sour Grapes???

After all, Affiliates do walk away with money in their pockets from the Casinos far more often than players do...

 

[Vesuvio]

Sour Grapes???

After all, Affiliates do walk away with money in their pockets from the Casinos far more often than players do...

Yeah, but remember sharp players no doubt make more than the majority of affiliates. Unless the majority of affiliates are also sharp players, which wouldn't entirely suprise me

 

[dominique]

Yeah, but remember sharp players no doubt make more than the majority of affiliates. Unless the majority of affiliates are also sharp players, which wouldn't entirely suprise me

I would estimate that situation like this:

Most of the time, neither players nor affiliates make a living, and the vast majority of both loses time and money. Hopefully players get some entertainment value and affiliates learn something.

I would imagine that players have a better chance at making good money than affiliates do.

Overall, a small percentage of players and a small percentage of affiliates walk home with most of the money.

 

[phynqster]

It's sad that this thread has becoe a finger pointing session. I think that there need to be better definitions on what an affiliate is; There are ones who build sites that look like casinos but roll into one casino(white label), you have search engine sites, that when a person does a google search on a casino, than click on the casino, they are really going through an affiliate. Than there are those affiliates, who actually almost become casino hosts, and introduce players to the casino and the games. As someone posted much earlier in this thread there are good, and bad in everything.

 

[spearmaster]

I don't want to pursue it, but you could make a counter argument that affiliates cost the casinos money that they could use to offer players better bonuses. So if everyone got their info on casinos and then signed up directly from the websites...

Not that I was looking for something to start a debate about... LOL... but:

1. CM is NOT an affiliate, he is a publisher for the most part - I believe very few of his contracts are actually as an affiliate.

2. Affiliates are used by casinos because it means they don't have to pay up front. If they did NOT use affiliate, a great proportion of the "savings" would actually go towards a much higher marketing spend because affiliates can generate players much faster than typical marketing alone can.

3. Affiliates are often able to offer better bonuses than the casino themselves will offer. This would obviously give the player an advantage.

4. As Dom pointed out elsewhere, many of the tools, news, and even software improvements are driven by affiliates as well as publishers. I know this for a fact because I used to be one of those people.

5. Players already get huge sign-up bonuses - there is absolutely no reason why a casino would decide to give out even more money through the sign-up bonus. As for loyalty - this I fully agree - the casinos OUGHT to do better than a piddly 0.1%, regardless of whether they depend on affiliates or not.

6. As BB pointed out, some affiliates have a lot of sway over casinos because they are huge revenue generators, and/or because they are actively participating in the industry in other ways. This does apply to publishers too but it started with affiliates going to conferences and dragging certain publishers along with them (ahem!).

7. Many affiliates - almost surely a great majority - of affiliates are also players. They are well in tune with what the players want and are able to present this message to the casino operators a lot more effectively.

8. Many affiliates lose a large part - or all - of their revenue back to the casinos - which effectively makes the casino marketing spend nil. On the other hand, operators could buy banner ads all over the place (well, in the past anyhow) and get no players in return.

9. Many of the casinos in existence today would not be around if not for affiliates, because they simply could not or would not have enough money to do a reasonable amount of marketing. Not going to mention any names but there are a few prominent ones who depend largely or entirely on their affiliates.

So - to the nitty-gritty - should affiliates get 25% of revenues?

In some cases, yes. In many cases, no - but most of these "no" cases don't generate much revenue in the first place. As for the "yes" cases - for the most part they are worth every bit - and more.

And ultimately it doesn't cost the player anything. If anything, affiliates can often mean more value for the player - but keep in mind that not ALL affiliates take the high road and thus you should always use caution or "buyer beware" when visiting affiliate sites.