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intertops casino bonus terms misleading

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by tesla, Dec 30, 2005.

    Dec 30, 2005
  1. tesla

    tesla Dormant account PABnoaccred2 PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    CFO
    Location:
    the world
    I played at intertops casino recently and I wagered the required amount on 50 play power poker. However, they said that I am not able to cash out my bonus chips because wagers on slots, video slots and video poker (excluding
    Multi-Hand Pokers)" only are allowed to clear the bonus.

    But the way that they state the terms seems like only certain countries need to wager on slots, video slots, and video poker as shown here:

    Players who reside in Sweden, Poland, Israel, Denmark and China must wager 30 times the initial match bonus plus deposit amount be played on Slots, Video Slots and Video Poker (excluding Multi-Hand Pokers) only.

    It would make a lot more sense if they said in a different sentence the initial match bonus can only be wagered on slots, video slots, and video poker for ALL countries.

    Another thing is that they also state:

    Bets on Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat and Craps will not contribute to the bonus turnover requirement.

    So here they state clearly that some games are not allowed, but they can't state clearly that multi-hand poker is not allowed for everyone?

    Therefore, I think I should be allowed to cash in my bonus chips as the terms & conditions obviously make it look like anybody other than players from those restricted countries can play any game except Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat and Craps to complete the bonus wagers.
     
  2. Dec 31, 2005
  3. vedat

    vedat Dormant account

    Location:
    TURKEY
    bonus terms

    is it forbidden to play video poker or is it just you can play any game but video poker and some other games dont counts for wagering requirements they have to notice that on their terms becouse when you enter to a casino you should be able to play any game you like i think they might not count them but forbid to play them is seems to me stupid and tricky (a lot of ppl dont read terms and start playing)
     
  4. Jan 12, 2006
  5. rogue724

    rogue724 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    USA
    Your are correct, Tesla!!

    After reading hundreds of T&C, this has to be one of the slimiest I have ever seen. Come on Bryan--if they want to be part of your webspace they ought to have to be honest with their T&C. I just came from the site and it is just as Tesla indicated. Any player, noob or vet, would read it just as Tesla did. Tesla, please post this at the BW site as well. Sorry it was you they caught!
     
  6. Jan 12, 2006
  7. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    This is what you get if you follow the links from CM for the bonus:

    So these are the gaming restrictions:

    Unless you live in in Sweden, Poland, Israel, Denmark and China, in which case these are the gaming restrictions:

    So a non-Swedish player has to wager x15 on any game except Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat and Craps . A Swedish player has to wager x30 on Slots, Video Slots and Video Poker (excluding Multi-Hand Pokers) only.

    They are applying the terms for a Swedish player to a non-Swedish player, which is just plain wrong. Why don't they go the whole hog and say you have to wager x30 too?

    And yes, it has just happened to me to. I paid in 100, got the 100 bonus and wagered it all (x15) on 100-play power poker. Finished on total of 323. I waited 14 days (can't make first withdrawal before then) and tried to cash in my chips this morning. Only 223 is transferable. I'll phone to check why, but it looks like I've been had too.
     
  8. Jan 12, 2006
  9. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    I've just noticed something else:

    So why can I withdraw 223? 123 of that is winnings, so I must have met the WR. But I can't transfer the 100 bonus, presumeably because I haven't met the WR.

    They aren't exactly applying their terms consisitently. I live in Germany by the way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2006
  10. Jan 12, 2006
  11. Slotmachine

    Slotmachine Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    US
    Clear as a day. Don't need to be a lawyer to see that you guys are both entitled to your winnings in full (apparently you're not residing in the above mentioned rogue states;)). Intertops would we wise to admit their mistake.

    Cheers,
    SM
     
  12. Jan 12, 2006
  13. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    I phoned customer service, and talked to someone who spoke German, but it wasn't her native language. So I explained in German what the problem was, but she kept interrupting me, then put me on hold, then came back and said someone would look into it and get back to me about awarding my bonus. I explained again that the problem wasn't an unawarded bonus, but a bonus which I had already met the WR on and wanted to withdraw. I don't think she really got it, and I didn't think she was ever going to, so thanked her and said goodbye.

    I then went to my mailbox and found the welcome mail from Intertops.com, which was all in English. I clicked on "reply", and sent the following:

    I received a rather confused reply in German, apologising for confiscating my bonus, saying it was a human error because they had meant to remove the bonus from somebody else. If anyone doesn't believe me, here it is:

    My bonus wasn't confiscated, I just can't withdraw it from the casino. I replied as follows:

    I have just received the following unbelievable rude reply:

    That's it! Neither of the 2 emails I've received so far has addressed the issue of how I can withdraw my 100. I started the email correspondence by clicking on "reply" to an email in English from intertops.com. It seems to have been internally passed on to their German department (how was I supposed to know?), who refuse to speak English or discuss the matter except for apologising and saying they meant to take the bonus off somebody else.

    This would be funny if it wasn't taking up so much time and they didn't owe me 100.

    I found this casino in the accredited operators link at casinomeister, and clicked on the link for the bonus. This statement heads the accredited operators page:

    As far as I am concerned Intertops has failed badly on both counts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2006
  14. Jan 12, 2006
  15. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    I referred them to this thread. They have finally understood what I am talking about, and sent me the following:

    Which was their position at the start of this thread. I have gone round in a very time consuming circle. They are applying the conditions to Swedish players to me, a player resident in Germany. They have also wasted an afternoon of my time with their appalling customer service.

    I repeat, they have no business on the accredited casinos list, as they do not abide by their terms and conditions and their customer support is terrible. Anyone clicking on the link from Casinomeister will find a nasty trap awaiting them.
     
  16. Jan 12, 2006
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I would like to know what is going on.

    This is actually the SECOND time Casinomeister players have been shafted by Intertops since they became a new member. They assured Casinomeister members that they would relaunch the sign-up offer after a rethink of the problems caused at the earlier launch.
    I suggested that new accredited members should serve a short apprenticeship term to see that they really DO live up to the promises given at the meetings with Bryan.
    For me, the terms as posted are clear, unless you live in the listed countries that include Sweden, then play on ANY VP is permitted for meeting the bonus requirements.
    This is most certainly PAB material, particularly as this is a failure after being given the benefit of the doubt the first time round. To hold up the integrity of the accredited list, they should be removed immediately (but not necessarily rogued) till they PROVE that third time around they will adhere to the clear T & C as posted on their site at the time a player deposits, which is one of the requirements of being accredited. If they remain accredited, yet keep having these problems, it brings the whole accredited casino idea into distrust, and players may unjustly prejudice other new entrants to the casinomeister list as they will think "what if this new one turns out to be another Intertops", and will hold back from trying it.
    I believe that Bryan has a backlog on PAB, so don't expect an instant response, but any players joining Intertops should ask for clarification from support IN WRITING by E-mail that the games they would like to play will count. In the meantime, remove the winnings you can, leave the disputed bonus behind and deposit elsewhere till you get both the bonus and a sincere apology for the errors. Don't accept "OH we meant Germany too!" (the most likely excuse they will try), it wasn't in T & C, and retrospective changes are not expected from a Casinomeister accredited member.
    Intertops is the clearest case yet of the need for a probationary period before a new member gets full accreditation.
     
  18. Jan 12, 2006
  19. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Intertops

    I wasn't too impressed although I've not tried their Microgaming casino. I first opened a sportbook account in pounds which was a mistake as they still process everything in $US at their own exchange rate. One time they took too much from Neteller (they usually take it in US$ but seemed to be taking it in a different currency causing some exchange rate fee) and I was told I needed to give them copies of my neteller screen which I did but I didn't receive the difference back or any reply back. I haven't followed it up but I think it was only $20 difference or so.
     
  20. Jan 12, 2006
  21. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I've been in contact with them today, and I'm a bit miffed to say the least. That's it. They're off the site.
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Jan 13, 2006
  23. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    Not Cool

    Ya know...

    If I ever have a problem with one of the Casinomeister's Accredited Sites...I hope to gawd I can summon the miniscule amount of self-control required to pm Bryan instead of blasting away on the open forum.

    One would think that is the least we could do for all his help.:notworthy

    Thanks Bryan,:thumbsup:

    the dUck
     
  24. Jan 13, 2006
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    In perspective.

    It was probably better that the evidence came to light, as with Bryan having the xmas backlog, it might have been some further time till this issue came to the top of the list. In the meantime, there is the possibility that other players would have joined through the link, had similar problems with the T & C, issued their own PAB or posting, and the eventual problems would have been greater.
    As this issue has now been aired, and the links removed, there is now time to consider this issue calmly. Any players who are atracted to this casino will see that there is an issue with the sign-up bonus, which you are NOT allowed to reject incidentally. It will most likely turn out to be poor CS coupled with the top management still gearing up after xmas. Players now have the facts, and should realise that the intent is that you play slots type games wherever you come from, and wager the extra to 30x if from the "blacklisted" countries (no matter what the T & C currently interpret as).
     
  26. Jan 13, 2006
  27. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    Why on earth would I want to increase Bryan's workload before doing everything I can to resolve the matter myself first? I was trying to sort this by phone and by email with the casino.

    I posted here in response to another poster who had fallen for the same trick. I thought it was important to warn forum members as soon as possible.

    There's a thread around here called "to publicise or not to publicise". I suggest you read the first page of it before telling others how to handle disputes.

    Thanks for booting these scoundrels off the site Bryan.
     
  28. Jan 13, 2006
  29. Daffy

    Daffy Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    middle management
    Location:
    Dallas,TX
    Must have hit a nerve...lol...why don't you do what you think is proper and mannerly and good for you and I will do the same.

    You did not originate this thread did you???

    If I have a problem with an accredited...I'll deal with it...if that don't work...then I'll pm Bryan...and I'll wait. If he decides to start a warning thread...so be it...won't be me.

    the dUck
     
  30. Jan 13, 2006
  31. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    when they first came on the site i gave them a wide berth due to the bad reports on here, after a while they stopped and they seemed to have sorted themselves out.

    i joined up and was given the bonus no probs

    i read the T+C's and they were short,simple and clear as day (although that seems to have changed now) in that VP was allowed but not multi-hand.

    only prob i had was when cashing out,i had my withdrawal reversed twice a quick look at my account showed why, i had joined up on a reload day and was given a sportsbook bonus (part of the reason why i asked for a SB forum here as this problem will become more common with more groups aquiring associated SB's).

    i sent them a quick email, explaining the problem and asked if they could remove the bonus and process the withdrawal for me, both of which they done without the need for any email contact with them.

    so overall i was quite impressed with them and plan to use them for sports bets in the future.

    however this was a couple of months ago, i will say at this time they had everything spot on, hopefully if they address problems raised here CM will put them back on the list.
     
  32. Jan 13, 2006
  33. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    Yesterday I transferred 223 (my balance minus the 100 they're hanging onto) from the casino to my sportsbook account. I then withdrew it. The money didn't arrive to neteller today so I went into my intertops sportsbook account to check what was happening there. Guess what? There was no record of my withdrawal in the history, and my balance has gone up from 223 to 233. Looks like they added a bonus after my withdrawal and are going to use it as an excuse to block the withdrawal.

    I'd be very grateful if anyone could give me some information about how to make a complaint to microgaming. I've really had it with these clowns.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2006
  34. Jan 13, 2006
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    MG complaint

    I have looked at their site, and they only allow for contact from operators through a webform. This might not stop you if you are prepared to spoof the fields in order to force the form past validation, but I expect they will bin the complaint.
    If your funds were transferred back, poor CS, but to mess with the transaction logs to make it look like the withdrawal never happened, this is not on!! An MG transaction that is sent back should be marked as such in Cashcheck. It might be worth confirming that you did indeed check history in Cashcheck, rather than in the sportsbook. The software with regard to WR would bounce the funds before they reach the sportsbook, and would be an innocent explanation for it not appearing in the sportsbook history. (Your statement that you withdrew it after transfer does not seem consistent with this explanation though).
    Playcheck will show you how that extra $10 arrived to your balance, and will prove either way whether it was added after the withdrawal, or before. This would make all the difference as to whether the casino is up to tricks (bonus added after bounce), or you mistimed the withdrawal (bonus added before time of withdrawal). To see a bonus in Playcheck, use the game filter and select a game you know you have never played, then select detailed view. This will show all promotional credits, along with the time they were added. This will also highlight the withdrawal timing down to the nearest minute, rather than the date as in cashcheck.
    Once you have gathered the evidence, you should be able to construct a proper case for the $223 to be released (with luck), even though not the disputed bonus.
    Do Intertops have an active rep here that can cut through the CS Bull?
     
  36. Jan 13, 2006
  37. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks for your suggestions. Here's what happened - I transfered 223 out of the casino, into my sportsbook account. You have to do this ("cash in your casino chips") before you withdraw to neteller. After the transfer I had a balance of 223 in my sportsbook account, which I filled in the form for to withdraw to neteller.

    Today my sportsbook balance is 233. So my withdrawal wasn't processed, they simply added a 10 bonus to my sportsbook account after I filled in the form to withdraw my 223.

    Isn't Playcheck just for the casino? That won't help, because I'm trying to withdraw from the sportsbook, and the bonus (presumeably with conditions) was added to my sportsbook account after I filled in the withdrawal.

    I've written to CS, but I suspect they're not talking to me any more after yesterday. They haven't replied to me since they were removed from the accredited list here.

    There was no bonus in my sportsbook account at the time of my withdrawal, I withdrew my total balance of 223.

    I don't think Intertops have a rep here, I looked before posting on this thread, as I would have approached them first.
     
  38. Jan 13, 2006
  39. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland

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