Intercasino having their cake and eating it...

[LHofsdal]

Dear Dusky,

Whilst I do believe that Dusky's playing pattern constitutes 2 tier betting which is in clear contravention of our terms and most other operators terms and at the time Dusky had been downgraded from VIP status ( which has far fewer restrictions around its bonuses), I have also found that Dusky was not informed of his change of status and further more when he enquired as to the rules around this bonus he was given the wrong information from CS. I therefore feel on this occasion, that Dusky played within the spirit of what he had been told. Therefore it would be unfair to withhold his winnings.

I will be apologising to Dusky by email and will instruct the payments team to pay his full winnings immediately.

Yours sincerely
Vince

That is fantastic Dusky!!! I am happy for you.

Vince, I have bolded the statement made you by you so you can see what I am going to comment on.

If you were standing in front of me right now I would shake your hand with the most respect anyone can have for another human being. It takes a man to admit mistakes and it takes an even bigger man to correct them. As we all know there are always 2 sides to situation and I believe that you took a look at both sides and made the decision based on facts not feelings. That is not always an easy thing to do. And what makes me gain this repsect for you Vince, is that you stated you would be apologizing to Dusky. No matter what other complaints are out and about on the net concerning Intercasino, Vince, you have proven to me that you are a stand up man and are willing to look at things with an open mind. This is just how I feel, and I can't play at this casino. Intercasino should really consider themselves lucky to have you on their team.

All the best,
Lori

 

[kavaman]

Congrats dusky on being paid. On the other intercasino case going on seems far more difficult, and i certainly don't know if the player or the casino is right on that, but in your case, i think the casino made the correct decision and paid your winnings.

 

[Simmo!]

Dear Dusky,

Whilst I do believe that Dusky's playing pattern constitutes 2 tier betting which is in clear contravention of our terms and most other operators terms and at the time Dusky had been downgraded from VIP status ( which has far fewer restrictions around its bonuses), I have also found that Dusky was not informed of his change of status and further more when he enquired as to the rules around this bonus he was given the wrong information from CS. I therefore feel on this occasion, that Dusky played within the spirit of what he had been told. Therefore it would be unfair to withhold his winnings.

I will be apologising to Dusky by email and will instruct the payments team to pay his full winnings immediately.

Yours sincerely
Vince

That's good to see. Intercasino have always had a good rep, however this "two-tier" betting thing is a new term on me. I mess around with my bet sizes all the time when I have won and follow a sort of watered-down Martingale strategy. Sounds to me like I'd break it every time I play and I am sure I am not alone. This needs more detailed clarification IMO.

 

[bigjohn]

It's nice that the OP got paid but it brings up the old question of what would have happened if he were not a member here.

I know if this had happened to me, even after I got paid and an apology, I would have a hard time convincing myself to patronize this casino again.

It would be nice to think that someone from the casino's end looks a little deeper into cases where there has been a confiscation without being prodded to do so.

Also, how does a player who lost around $10,000 in 4 months playing bet sizes of $25 to $300 get downgraded from VIP status?

 

[questa]

Also, how does a player who lost around $10,000 in 4 months playing bet sizes of $25 to $300 get downgraded from VIP status?

It does make you wonder doesn't it A cynical person might think this explanation was made up to justify the action, but I am not a cynical person and would never doubt the world of an online casino - if they say they downgraded it but forgot to tell the player or their own CS, then I'm sure that did actually happen

Anyway, they did the right thing in the end, so that's the main thing.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Never heard of two-tier betting before, but found this on the web:

Two-tier betting involves making higher variance (usually large) bets until reaching a target gain, then switching to normal variance bets to complete the remaining wagering requirement. This strategy increases EV over a typical smaller bet size, with both cashable and sticky bonuses. The EV increase is large for sticky bonuses and cashable bonuses where you are expected to lose a large portion of the bonus during wagering, but the increase may be negligible for cashable bonuses where you are expected to lose little of the bonus during wagering. (source: beatingbonuses.com)

Who would bet all the time the same bet size??? You go down when nothing happens and increase when you have the feeling the slot is getting hot. But i am sure casinos don't like to hear that

 

[me_and_ed]

1 tier, 2 tier, 10 tier, whatever the casinos want to call it, they are almost all full of shit these days, even some so called accredited ones, I think they should do away with bonuses and just have a decent no restriction comp system that rewards both on deposits and play (which some do).

 

[questa]

As far as I can make out, the only way to stick within their rules is to bet the same bet, under £6.25, all the time. How much fun can that be? Which is why I no longer take any of their bonuses.

 

[Harry_BKK]

As far as I can make out, the only way to stick within their rules is to bet the same bet, under £6.25, all the time. How much fun can that be? Which is why I no longer take any of their bonuses.

Yeah, i read the same. You would get penalized even when you would get a really good win on 6.25 and reduce then to maybe 1.25 or 0.50 bets to grind of the rest of the WR. So you placed bets according to their T&C's and still lose your winnings. Absolutely ridiculous and certainly a casino i will avoid for my lifetime. Don't need this kind of hassle

 

[questa]

Just to add, two tier betting I always took to mean putting your balance of say £200 or £500 on something like bacarrat or roulette, and then reducing to very low bets like £1 if you multiply up a few times. Not betting £10 on a slot ffs. Ridiculous. Anyway, player paid and we all know to move on from this clueless outfit now.

 

[Simmo!]

Who would bet all the time the same bet size???

Might find this old poll interesting: https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...betting-vs-incremental-betting.54244/?t=54244

 

[Tirilej]

I feel I have to bump this thread up again to clear up a mystery that never was solved.

We were several people here who asked the rep what ''Two tier betting'' meant, but he never replied.
I still want to know and I'm sure others want too.

If it's not clearly written then it is a ''Spirit of the bonus''-thing, and that is not acceptable to have as an accredited casino.

So could we please get an answer or I will bump up this thread every month

 

[mcgameboy]

Never heard of two-tier betting before, but found this on the web:



Who would bet all the time the same bet size??? You go down when nothing happens and increase when you have the feeling the slot is getting hot. But i am sure casinos don't like to hear that

I would. For the following reasons....

It has for the most part served me well this past 9 months.

It is the "style" of play that I am most comfortable playing, given that I play high-variance games.

My gambling budget is limited. IE I can't afford to drop five figure sums (or even four-figure sums) every week/month.

There is one thing worse than a bustout. A bustout with poor playtime. That's a scenario I prefer to avoid as often as possible. And
I certainly do not want it to happen as a result of a "hunch gone horribly wrong".

I know how the LuckyDalia vs BETAT thread started. A denied withdrawal (that was paid later) due to bet size changes ranging from 30p to £1.50. When I want to make a withdrawal, I want it to be a source of joy/happiness, not stress and anxiety. And I certainly don't want it to be a source of a torch and pitchfork style meltdown on the CM forum and the potential loss of my CM membership.

You might well find that style of play "unattractve" or even "unpalatable" Harry. And that's fair enough.
But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's "wrong". We all have a different approach to our slotting.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I would. For the following reasons....

It has for the most part served me well this past 9 months.

It is the "style" of play that I am most comfortable playing, given that I play high-variance games.

My gambling budget is limited. IE I can't afford to drop five figure sums (or even four-figure sums) every week/month.

There is one thing worse than a bustout. A bustout with poor playtime. That's a scenario I prefer to avoid as often as possible. And
I certainly do not want it to happen as a result of a "hunch gone horribly wrong".

I know how the LuckyDalia vs BETAT thread started. A denied withdrawal (that was paid later) due to bet size changes ranging from 30p to £1.50. When I want to make a withdrawal, I want it to be a source of joy/happiness, not stress and anxiety. And I certainly don't want it to be a source of a torch and pitchfork style meltdown on the CM forum and the potential loss of my CM membership.

You might well find that style of play "unattractve" or even "unpalatable" Harry. And that's fair enough.
But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's "wrong". We all have a different approach to our slotting.

sorry, but i never said it is wrong to play always with the same bet. i only objected to withdrawals being not paid because of fluctuations in bet size.

everybody has his own "strategy" on how he/she plays, i for one like to increase bet sizes when i have the feeling the slot is getting hot. Since i don't have funds to bet high all the time i "trust" my gut feeling when doing so. That way i hit 10, 15 or 20K payouts in free spins, but surely it also means i lost sometimes 4-5K in one day.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm not sure why the casino is complaining about fluctuations in bet size. What use is having a variable bet size on games if you're not allowed to use it? Win or lose, the casino is only too happy to take your money. I fail to see how any player gains any true benefit from changing bet size. That RTP is still going to get you in the end. Regardless of the size of your bets. The player does not gain any extra RTP by changing stake. So how are they gaining an advantage over the casino?

 

[Harry_BKK]

I'm not sure why the casino is complaining about fluctuations in bet size. What use is having a variable bet size on games if you're not allowed to use it? Win or lose, the casino is only too happy to take your money. I fail to see how any player gains any true benefit from changing bet size. That RTP is still going to get you in the end. Regardless of the size of your bets. The player does not gain any extra RTP by changing stake. So how are they gaining an advantage over the casino?

Let's say you deposit 150 and take a 100% match of 150%, total 300 balance and 4500 to wager at 30xbonus.... you start with 6.25 and increase to 12.50 and make it quick to a balance of 4500 with still 3000 left to wager.... now you set a bet size of 1$, chose a low variance slot and put it on autospin to complete the wagering....mathematically you end up with a nice balance to withdraw

This is what casinos call 2-tier betting, whereas i call it smart betting when you don't want to risk too much of your balance whilst still wagering.

 

[hedgehok]

The determination of what constitutes bonus abuse shall be at the sole discretion of InterCasino, but for clarity what will be considered evidence of bonus abuse shall include, but not be limited to, the following examples:

Using more than one account
Wagering the bonus money on excluded games
Bonus stacking
Two tier betting
Multiple account strategy / proxy account strategy
Using a VPN or masking IP address
Affiliate CPA or revenue share abuse
A pattern of betting using bonus money in which a significant proportion of single bets are more than £/$/€ 6.25 in slots or more than £/$/€ 25 in table games

What I find especially strange is that they have both the max bet rule of £/$/€ 6.25 and the two-tier betting prohibition. Averting bonus-abuse with a max-bet is something Iam willing to understand but two-tier betting Iam not. The purpose to prevent people from doing that is clear to me: Having a big-hit with £/$/€ 6.25 and then reduce bet-size to grind out wagering requirements.

Let's asume we have 2 players:
Player A is flat-betting £/$/€ 6.25 all the time until wagering requirements are fulfilled and makes a withdrawal after that.
Player B bets £/$/€ 6.25 until he/she has quadrupled the bankroll and switches to low-betting (let's say £/$/€ 1.50) after that until wagering requirements are fulfilled and cashes-in after that.

Certainly Player A will bust out more often but his EV is higher then that of Player B. So why not encouraging players to use two-tier betting?

 

[Tirilej]

The determination of what constitutes bonus abuse shall be at the sole discretion of InterCasino, but for clarity what will be considered evidence of bonus abuse shall include, but not be limited to, the following examples:

Using more than one account
Wagering the bonus money on excluded games
Bonus stacking
Two tier betting
Multiple account strategy / proxy account strategy
Using a VPN or masking IP address
Affiliate CPA or revenue share abuse
A pattern of betting using bonus money in which a significant proportion of single bets are more than £/$/€ 6.25 in slots or more than £/$/€ 25 in table games

What I find especially strange is that they have both the max bet rule of £/$/€ 6.25 and the two-tier betting prohibition. Averting bonus-abuse with a max-bet is something Iam willing to understand but two-tier betting Iam not. The purpose to prevent people from doing that is clear to me: Having a big-hit with £/$/€ 6.25 and then reduce bet-size to grind out wagering requirements.

Let's asume we have 2 players:
Player A is flat-betting £/$/€ 6.25 all the time until wagering requirements are fulfilled and makes a withdrawal after that.
Player B bets £/$/€ 6.25 until he/she has quadrupled the bankroll and switches to low-betting (let's say £/$/€ 1.50) after that until wagering requirements are fulfilled and cashes-in after that.

Certainly Player A will bust out more often but his EV is higher then that of Player B. So why not encouraging players to use two-tier betting?

I would have prefferred the rep for the casino to explain what they see as Two tier betting. Maybe they see it as something else or considering jumping up and down in bets also as wrong. I don't know, but if everyone state what it is then you better be sure because now they will probably not reply.

Next I see that I have no idea what it is. Bonus stacking?
Is that trying to use two bonuses at the same time or what? Is that even possible?
Or does it mean something else?

 

[hedgehok]

I still hope that the rep clarifies. It's possible that Intercasino has a different approach which we did not consider yet.