Intercasino having their cake and eating it...

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
Can't you please also make a PAB?
I don't think that Max is aware of it being two similar cases with Intercasino at the same time.

It's clear that these guys are different and maybe they shouldn't even be accredited anymore. Especially not if they are using the ''spirit of the bonus'' rule, as seems to be the case here.
So do it for the rest of the players.
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
Just spotted this and Imagination took over, however probably not too far from the truth....

The determination of what constitutes bonus abuse shall be at the sole discretion of InterCasino, but for clarity what will be considered evidence of bonus abuse shall include, but not be limited to, the following examples:
Using more than one account
Wagering the bonus money on excluded games
Bonus stacking
Anything else that springs to mind at the time that is remotely plausible or we can probably 'get away with'
 

Vince Inter

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Location
Malta
Response from InterCasino

Dear Dusky,

Whilst I do believe that Dusky's playing pattern constitutes 2 tier betting which is in clear contravention of our terms and most other operators terms and at the time Dusky had been downgraded from VIP status ( which has far fewer restrictions around its bonuses), I have also found that Dusky was not informed of his change of status and further more when he enquired as to the rules around this bonus he was given the wrong information from CS. I therefore feel on this occasion, that Dusky played within the spirit of what he had been told. Therefore it would be unfair to withhold his winnings.

I will be apologising to Dusky by email and will instruct the payments team to pay his full winnings immediately.

Yours sincerely
Vince
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
Dear Dusky,

Whilst I do believe that Dusky's playing pattern constitutes 2 tier betting which is in clear contravention of our terms and most other operators terms and at the time Dusky had been downgraded from VIP status ( which has far fewer restrictions around its bonuses), I have also found that Dusky was not informed of his change of status and further more when he enquired as to the rules around this bonus he was given the wrong information from CS. I therefore feel on this occasion, that Dusky played within the spirit of what he had been told. Therefore it would be unfair to withhold his winnings.

I will be apologising to Dusky by email and will instruct the payments team to pay his full winnings immediately.

Yours sincerely
Vince

That's absolutely great so congratulations to you Dusky.:thumbsup:

I've never heard the word 2 tier betting before and I've been a member here for many years now.
Could you Vince, please explain what it is, so someone like me don't fall into that trap?
I guess your rules are in English also which makes it even harder to understand for us who don't know the language so well.
 

dusky

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Location
England
Just wanted to say thank you to Vince and his team at Intercasino for this outcome. I hope that we have both learnt something about this, I certainly have.

It's a great credit to the people at Intercasino as to how it's been handled quickly and professionally.

I've definitely not been aware of any change to my VIP status so I will be wary of what I can and cannot do in terms of bonus play at Intercasino from now on and as I've been downgraded the word of customer service matters not as all terms apply from here on in as written.

I would definitely recommend a clarification to the simple wording of "Two Tier Betting" as brought up above so that this doesn't affect any other players in future. I know of other places that specifically mention what is / isn't allowed in regards to this rule.

Thank you again for the swift outcome.
 

LHofsdal

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Location
NY
Dear Dusky,

Whilst I do believe that Dusky's playing pattern constitutes 2 tier betting which is in clear contravention of our terms and most other operators terms and at the time Dusky had been downgraded from VIP status ( which has far fewer restrictions around its bonuses), I have also found that Dusky was not informed of his change of status and further more when he enquired as to the rules around this bonus he was given the wrong information from CS. I therefore feel on this occasion, that Dusky played within the spirit of what he had been told. Therefore it would be unfair to withhold his winnings.

I will be apologising to Dusky by email and will instruct the payments team to pay his full winnings immediately.

Yours sincerely
Vince

That is fantastic Dusky!!! I am happy for you.

Vince, I have bolded the statement made you by you so you can see what I am going to comment on.

If you were standing in front of me right now I would shake your hand with the most respect anyone can have for another human being. It takes a man to admit mistakes and it takes an even bigger man to correct them. As we all know there are always 2 sides to situation and I believe that you took a look at both sides and made the decision based on facts not feelings. That is not always an easy thing to do. And what makes me gain this repsect for you Vince, is that you stated you would be apologizing to Dusky. No matter what other complaints are out and about on the net concerning Intercasino, Vince, you have proven to me that you are a stand up man and are willing to look at things with an open mind. This is just how I feel, and I can't play at this casino. Intercasino should really consider themselves lucky to have you on their team.

All the best,
Lori
 

kavaman

Senior Member
PABnononaccred3
PABnononaccred3
MM
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Location
finland
Congrats dusky on being paid. On the other intercasino case going on seems far more difficult, and i certainly don't know if the player or the casino is right on that, but in your case, i think the casino made the correct decision and paid your winnings.
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
Dear Dusky,

Whilst I do believe that Dusky's playing pattern constitutes 2 tier betting which is in clear contravention of our terms and most other operators terms and at the time Dusky had been downgraded from VIP status ( which has far fewer restrictions around its bonuses), I have also found that Dusky was not informed of his change of status and further more when he enquired as to the rules around this bonus he was given the wrong information from CS. I therefore feel on this occasion, that Dusky played within the spirit of what he had been told. Therefore it would be unfair to withhold his winnings.

I will be apologising to Dusky by email and will instruct the payments team to pay his full winnings immediately.

Yours sincerely
Vince

That's good to see. Intercasino have always had a good rep, however this "two-tier" betting thing is a new term on me. I mess around with my bet sizes all the time when I have won and follow a sort of watered-down Martingale strategy. Sounds to me like I'd break it every time I play and I am sure I am not alone. This needs more detailed clarification IMO.
 

bigjohn

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Northeast Coastal USA
It's nice that the OP got paid but it brings up the old question of what would have happened if he were not a member here.

I know if this had happened to me, even after I got paid and an apology, I would have a hard time convincing myself to patronize this casino again.

It would be nice to think that someone from the casino's end looks a little deeper into cases where there has been a confiscation without being prodded to do so.

Also, how does a player who lost around $10,000 in 4 months playing bet sizes of $25 to $300 get downgraded from VIP status?
 

questa

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Location
UK
Also, how does a player who lost around $10,000 in 4 months playing bet sizes of $25 to $300 get downgraded from VIP status?

It does make you wonder doesn't it :rolleyes: A cynical person might think this explanation was made up to justify the action, but I am not a cynical person and would never doubt the world of an online casino - if they say they downgraded it but forgot to tell the player or their own CS, then I'm sure that did actually happen :p

Anyway, they did the right thing in the end, so that's the main thing.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Never heard of two-tier betting before, but found this on the web:

Two-tier betting involves making higher variance (usually large) bets until reaching a target gain, then switching to normal variance bets to complete the remaining wagering requirement. This strategy increases EV over a typical smaller bet size, with both cashable and sticky bonuses. The EV increase is large for sticky bonuses and cashable bonuses where you are expected to lose a large portion of the bonus during wagering, but the increase may be negligible for cashable bonuses where you are expected to lose little of the bonus during wagering. (source: beatingbonuses.com)

Who would bet all the time the same bet size??? You go down when nothing happens and increase when you have the feeling the slot is getting hot. But i am sure casinos don't like to hear that :rolleyes:
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
1 tier, 2 tier, 10 tier, whatever the casinos want to call it, they are almost all full of shit these days, even some so called accredited ones, I think they should do away with bonuses and just have a decent no restriction comp system that rewards both on deposits and play (which some do).
 

questa

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Location
UK
As far as I can make out, the only way to stick within their rules is to bet the same bet, under £6.25, all the time. How much fun can that be? Which is why I no longer take any of their bonuses.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
As far as I can make out, the only way to stick within their rules is to bet the same bet, under £6.25, all the time. How much fun can that be? Which is why I no longer take any of their bonuses.

Yeah, i read the same. You would get penalized even when you would get a really good win on 6.25 and reduce then to maybe 1.25 or 0.50 bets to grind of the rest of the WR. So you placed bets according to their T&C's and still lose your winnings. Absolutely ridiculous and certainly a casino i will avoid for my lifetime. Don't need this kind of hassle :)
 

questa

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Location
UK
Just to add, two tier betting I always took to mean putting your balance of say £200 or £500 on something like bacarrat or roulette, and then reducing to very low bets like £1 if you multiply up a few times. Not betting £10 on a slot ffs. Ridiculous. Anyway, player paid and we all know to move on from this clueless outfit now.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
I feel I have to bump this thread up again to clear up a mystery that never was solved.

We were several people here who asked the rep what ''Two tier betting'' meant, but he never replied.
I still want to know and I'm sure others want too.

If it's not clearly written then it is a ''Spirit of the bonus''-thing, and that is not acceptable to have as an accredited casino.

So could we please get an answer or I will bump up this thread every month ;)
 

mcgameboy

NEVER GO FULL WOKETARD
CAG
mm2
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Belfast
Never heard of two-tier betting before, but found this on the web:



Who would bet all the time the same bet size??? You go down when nothing happens and increase when you have the feeling the slot is getting hot. But i am sure casinos don't like to hear that :rolleyes:

I would. For the following reasons....

It has for the most part served me well this past 9 months.

It is the "style" of play that I am most comfortable playing, given that I play high-variance games.

My gambling budget is limited. IE I can't afford to drop five figure sums (or even four-figure sums) every week/month.

There is one thing worse than a bustout. A bustout with poor playtime. That's a scenario I prefer to avoid as often as possible. And
I certainly do not want it to happen as a result of a "hunch gone horribly wrong".

I know how the LuckyDalia vs BETAT thread started. A denied withdrawal (that was paid later) due to bet size changes ranging from 30p to £1.50. When I want to make a withdrawal, I want it to be a source of joy/happiness, not stress and anxiety. And I certainly don't want it to be a source of a torch and pitchfork style meltdown on the CM forum and the potential loss of my CM membership.

You might well find that style of play "unattractve" or even "unpalatable" Harry. And that's fair enough.
But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's "wrong". We all have a different approach to our slotting.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
I would. For the following reasons....

It has for the most part served me well this past 9 months.

It is the "style" of play that I am most comfortable playing, given that I play high-variance games.

My gambling budget is limited. IE I can't afford to drop five figure sums (or even four-figure sums) every week/month.

There is one thing worse than a bustout. A bustout with poor playtime. That's a scenario I prefer to avoid as often as possible. And
I certainly do not want it to happen as a result of a "hunch gone horribly wrong".

I know how the LuckyDalia vs BETAT thread started. A denied withdrawal (that was paid later) due to bet size changes ranging from 30p to £1.50. When I want to make a withdrawal, I want it to be a source of joy/happiness, not stress and anxiety. And I certainly don't want it to be a source of a torch and pitchfork style meltdown on the CM forum and the potential loss of my CM membership.

You might well find that style of play "unattractve" or even "unpalatable" Harry. And that's fair enough.
But just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's "wrong". We all have a different approach to our slotting.

sorry, but i never said it is wrong to play always with the same bet. i only objected to withdrawals being not paid because of fluctuations in bet size.

everybody has his own "strategy" on how he/she plays, i for one like to increase bet sizes when i have the feeling the slot is getting hot. Since i don't have funds to bet high all the time i "trust" my gut feeling when doing so. That way i hit 10, 15 or 20K payouts in free spins, but surely it also means i lost sometimes 4-5K in one day.
 

Captain Chaos

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
I'm not sure why the casino is complaining about fluctuations in bet size. What use is having a variable bet size on games if you're not allowed to use it? Win or lose, the casino is only too happy to take your money. I fail to see how any player gains any true benefit from changing bet size. That RTP is still going to get you in the end. Regardless of the size of your bets. The player does not gain any extra RTP by changing stake. So how are they gaining an advantage over the casino?
 
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