Intercasino (Crypto) slots RTP?

ChopleyIOM

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I've had a little search around here at CM and can't find anything, and I certainly can't find anything on the Intercasino website or on the paytables, so does anyone here know what the RTP of the slots at Intercasino are? (Are some higher than others, is there an average etc etc?)

Their bonus offers are generally on the high side, the latest I've been offered is a 115% match up to £400, albeit with a 20xD+B WR so it's not EV+, but it's a bigger bonus than the average sort of bonus offer I'm used to getting (certainly outside of a SUB).

My 'feeling' in the past has been that they're on the low side, if I had to guess I'd be guessing 'around 90%' but of course it just be that the slots are higher variance than average so without a big hit or two they're always going to feel that way.

Any ideas?

Thanks :)
 

KasinoKing

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I'm not sure exactly where, but I think I read somewhere that they are in the 91% region.
I don't have any idea why they would be so low. :confused:

One person who might know is Simmo!
Try sending him a PM and see if he has any data for you.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

KK
 

ChopleyIOM

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Thanks KK, will do.

I just assumed I'd missed something obvious and that the RTP of their slots was public knowledge, or at least had been at some point.

The 'regular' bonus offers they come up with are in excess of the SUBs at most places, which leads me to believe their slots aren't running RTPs in the usual 95% range.
 

Nifty29

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Well if those bonus terms (I get offers for 100% up to $250 15xDB ) indicate an RTP of around 91%.......imagine what it must be at slotland and winaday where all bonuses are 1xD + 10xB cashable :eek:

Players should realise that casinos base bonuses around RTP, as they would lose money if they didn't I.e. they calculate what WR would statistically eat a bankroll.

I've always found intercasino hard to win at, and recently have done better on casual slots like jenga and sudoku which is a little concerning.
 

KasinoKing

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I've always found intercasino hard to win at, and recently have done better on casual slots like jenga and sudoku which is a little concerning.
How bizarre!
Those are the two slots which always suck me dry! :(
The three "casuals" which I have had many good results on are Cubis, Sweet Thing and Bejeweled :thumbsup:

KK
 

Zepher

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Just had a similar offer via email.. but choice of 2 bonuses:

115 % Slots bonus up to £575 - 20xD+B

OR

100% Match deposit bonus up to £500 for most games - 15xD+B

Both minimum £10 deposit.

Took the 100% match on £25, but just played slots anyway. The 2nd offer was IMO MUCH better than the 115% offer, as you can play anything if you wish and has less playthrough.

Got my balance up to £150 quite quickly, but as usual for me lately, as soon as I hit the last 20% of WR, I basically lost the lot ( always playing minimum ) and by time WR was done, I had my deposit of £25 left. LOL. Withdrew it, so am even.

Seems they are offering the 'same' bonuses but on different terms to members. I don't play there much, tbh I've only ever made 2 small deposits there ( 3rd this evening ). Hit a £525 RJ on Rapid Fire slots the first time, and managed to clear WR with £500, and 2nd deposit busted quicker than my coffee did. Hadn't played there since til tonight. Guess they wanted some of their money back ;)


Oh, nearly forgot the main reason for me posting. The RTP. I've read somewhere as well that they're slots are mostly in the region of 90%. It often, very often, feels like it too. And until I see proof of the RTP's being different from what we suspect, I refuse to believe they are more than 91-92%. Happy to be corrected.

Something else I would like to mention/discuss - To me, and I accept if I'm wrong etc, but a lot of their slots feel extremely weighted IMO. Take 1 of their 3 ( they only have 3 in total ) 243ways games, Savannah Sunrise - The way this slot spins ( and a lot of the other slots on the site ), when the reels are coming to a stop they seem to 'bounce' and I see no end of getting 2 scatters with the 3rd needed one just 1 up, or 1 down on another reel, but for half a second just before the reels come to a complete stop it sometimes looks like you got 3, for the 3rd scatter to scoot up/down 1 place. Sorry I'm tired, and I should be in bed - I don't think I'm explaining this correctly, but basically what I'm saying is, those damn scatters quite often feel weighted. Please try this game out for yourself ( if you can ), and if you can be bothered, please give your opinion.
 
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ssecca01

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This is changing the subject a little but on the topic of Intercasino I recently got a free chip bonus there and after quickly busting out on it thought I'd claim the monthly bonus. Before I did so on a whim I checked the bonus page in the cashier where it lists any bonuses you have on active on your account and I noticed the free chip bonus and its wagering was still active even with a zero balance. I decided not to deposit after that thinking wagering would be carried over from the free chip on top of the bonus I was going to claim. Does intercasino carry over wagering of all claimed bonuses does anyone know or was this just an error or something of cashier?
 

RUSTYROO

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Does intercasino carry over wagering of all claimed bonuses does anyone know or was this just an error or something of cashier?

I have this happen all the time and years ago i remember them having the 3 month rule of when the wagering would be taken off...

But for at least the last few years or so i have noticed that if i don't complete wagering and zero out, i come back in 24 to 48 hours it has been taken out of the active promotions and i am able to use a fresh bonus without the leftover wagering.

Wait a day or two then check back in your active promotions and hopefully it's gone by then. :)
 

mattsgame

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Well if those bonus terms (I get offers for 100% up to $250 15xDB ) indicate an RTP of around 91%.......imagine what it must be at slotland and winaday where all bonuses are 1xD + 10xB cashable :eek:


I am 99% sure the reason that Slotland and Winaday can offer bonuses like this is that their slots are not true slots but rather like AWP's and are not random. I will try and find the info I read quite a while ago now.

Sorry for the OT
 

ThePOGG

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I've had a look at InterCasino's TRTP figures and like most casinos there is a fairly large range. I'm currently working with InterCasino to release this information and this should happen in the next couple of months.
 

ThePOGG

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Something else I would like to mention/discuss - To me, and I accept if I'm wrong etc, but a lot of their slots feel extremely weighted IMO. Take 1 of their 3 ( they only have 3 in total ) 243ways games, Savannah Sunrise - The way this slot spins ( and a lot of the other slots on the site ), when the reels are coming to a stop they seem to 'bounce' and I see no end of getting 2 scatters with the 3rd needed one just 1 up, or 1 down on another reel, but for half a second just before the reels come to a complete stop it sometimes looks like you got 3, for the 3rd scatter to scoot up/down 1 place. Sorry I'm tired, and I should be in bed - I don't think I'm explaining this correctly, but basically what I'm saying is, those damn scatters quite often feel weighted. Please try this game out for yourself ( if you can ), and if you can be bothered, please give your opinion.

The spin of the reels will have no effect on the outcome. As it's all RNGs these days, when you hit the button the outcome is instantly decided, the spinning is purely for entertainment purposes. That's not to say that the games couldn't be programmed to show you 'near misses' regularly - which is a well established psycological principal in the gambling field - but that's no indicator of how regularly the scatter symbol 'should' turn up.
 

Zepher

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The spin of the reels will have no effect on the outcome. As it's all RNGs these days, when you hit the button the outcome is instantly decided, the spinning is purely for entertainment purposes. That's not to say that the games couldn't be programmed to show you 'near misses' regularly - which is a well established psycological principal in the gambling field - but that's no indicator of how regularly the scatter symbol 'should' turn up.

Yeah I was really tired last night, and should not have still been up at 4am typing that post. Thanks for your post. Yeah I understand that the RNG dictates the outcome before the reels have stopped, as I guessed at the time, I didn't explain what I meant well enough, but it doesn't matter anyway. Those damn near misses annoy the fk out of me though. lol.
 

ThePOGG

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Those damn near misses annoy the fk out of me though. lol.

4am is a dark time for posting lol. And that's exactly what the near miss is meant to do, keep you playing cause you are sooooo close you're bound to hit soon. And as much as most players know that's not true, i think that there's a small voice in all of us that says 'i must be due a feature soon'....
 

incrediblestuff

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Yes i must admit (sorry for OT) that in my years of playing ive come to despise too many of those near miss/hits too.
When i started online gambling these near wins and showing top symbols frequently, did seem to mean they were bound to hit soon.
Lately i've been seeing more and more of those, and they now seem to be just psychological teasers, to indeed keep you playing.
I dont like them one bit:)
I always expect to lose, but i rather have it go down obviously, then to keep seeing top pays minus one symbol (mostly in the middle) and not hitting them.
What i would prefer is software that will on regular days keep you going up and down, and on bad days just bust you out hard (as is to be expected when playing high variance slots), but, imo the higher symbols, which are supposed to be on the reels less, and pop up only once in a while, only to be dropping in when they are bound to hit.
Of course that might be to much to ask:)
 

ChopleyIOM

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I've had a look at InterCasino's TRTP figures and like most casinos there is a fairly large range. I'm currently working with InterCasino to release this information and this should happen in the next couple of months.

Thanks POGG, are the numbers not in the public domain then?
 

ThePOGG

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Thanks POGG, are the numbers not in the public domain then?

Not yet, but they will be soon. InterCasino are looking into the easiest way to do this at the moment (whether in the help files or over support). Either way i will be publishing the figures with the game reviews on my site, but that may take a little while as i'm still polishing off the redesign. If there's something specific you'd like to know PM me.
 

TheLastCylon

Banned User - violation of rule 1.19
Anyone releasing T-RTP data is a win for the consumer. I'll believe it when I see it, mind you, but I'll still hold out hope.

POGG, while you're at it, try to get them to release their auditing certification as well -- the monthly RTP results, the head, the tail, the whole damn thing.
 

ThePOGG

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Anyone releasing T-RTP data is a win for the consumer. I'll believe it when I see it, mind you, but I'll still hold out hope.

I can assure you this will be happening. As mentioned previously i have the document, so whether they get their staff trained/website updated first or i get the game reviews up first is the only real question.



POGG, while you're at it, try to get them to release their auditing certification as well -- the monthly RTP results, the head, the tail, the whole damn thing.

The already do this - hxxp://www.intercasino.com/why/payout/ - that page should have a link to tha auditing, the quarterly results for this year and the yearly figures going waaay back.
 

TheLastCylon

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I can assure you this will be happening. As mentioned previously i have the document, so whether they get their staff trained/website updated first or i get the game reviews up first is the only real question.

The already do this - hxxp://www.intercasino.com/why/payout/ - that page should have a link to tha auditing, the quarterly results for this year and the yearly figures going waaay back.

Heeeey, that's not bad! I still have some problems, though, to which many casinos are subject, so while this is about Intercasino, it applies to the industry as a whole.

Firstly, their auditing sheet is over two years old, which is pretty poor for such a major operation. Secondly, even when the auditing was done, it appears to only have been a term-end financial analysis. No actual analysis, statistical or otherwise, took place of game results. I would like to see the kind of analysis work done by Certified Fair Gambling.
 

ThePOGG

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Heeeey, that's not bad! I still have some problems, though, to which many casinos are subject, so while this is about Intercasino, it applies to the industry as a whole.

Firstly, their auditing sheet is over two years old, which is pretty poor for such a major operation. Secondly, even when the auditing was done, it appears to only have been a term-end financial analysis. No actual analysis, statistical or otherwise, took place of game results. I would like to see the kind of analysis work done by Certified Fair Gambling.

What you're really looking for here - and i'd agree with you - is a guarentee that the software is fair, but until real regulation comes along nothing that any casino does ever completely satisfies that for me.

The reality is that CFG - and i'd like to add at this point that i've got a lot of repect for Elliot Jacobson - is a company and is profit based and therefore not what i'd see as a regulatory standard. No certificate out there right is up to scratch, but where and when i can i am pushing for greater transparency and the release of slots RTP figures is one are where many casinos have been very receptive (and a few others have been absolutely not so).
 

binary128

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ThePOGG,

Another one of my patent pending, more-words-than-you-want-to-read posts that bears on the issue of monthly certifications, specifically as it relates to Certified Fair Gambling.

I've worked with Certified Fair Gambling (CFG) for over 3 years. I chose CFG over TST or eCOGRA specifically because, in addition to the financial RTP Percent calculation, CFG also runs an assortment of statistical tests on the game logs which I send them every month. (I, and others, have referenced this in several threads over the years.)

If you read a TST Monthly Game Payout Certification, you'll clearly see that Financial RTP Percent is all that is being certified. The same applies to an eCOGRA monthly report.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
:

Old / Expired Link:

From our Help files:

The Reported RTP is calculated by adding your winnings, or subtracting your losses, from your total bet amount, and dividing the result by your total bet amount.

I included this quote to exemplify exactly how simple a Financial RTP Percent calculation is - these monthly reports ain't rocket surgery.



Certified Fair Gambling (CFG), in addition to performing the Financial RTP Percent calculation above, also performs a number (a large number) of tests for the determination of statistical "fairness". (Again, I and others have referenced this in several threads over the years.)

You can clearly see this by comparing the Monthly Certification documents of CFG, TST and eCOGRA. The CFG document includes the extremely significant statement

Audits were conducted on a subset of games using a variety of statistical tests for fairness.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) :

This one sentence makes the world of difference, and represents the reason that I chose CFG over TST and eCOGRA back in early 2009.

In additional to being a financial value, RTP is also a significant statistical value, of importance in a monthly report. However, though important, it is a relatively small part of the total CFG monthly audit, both in size and in impact.

An excellent example - a simple RTP analysis might possibly have missed the now infamous double-down Video Poker mess at English Harbour. (That is, if the double-down game count were not high enough to cause a 3-sigma drift in the game's total RTP, it would have simply slipped through the cracks.) However, just one of CFG's statistical tests would have captured the problem immediately, and without any doubt or question.

eCOGRA's 6-month RNG Certificates are simply Chi-squared analysis of the game output. Chi-squared analysis is also included in the monthly CFG analysis, but is again only a small part of the total testing. (It is also performed monthly, not twice a year, and is used against more than the 3 games which eCOGRA has chosen.) CFG also includes skip tests, run tests, streak tests, and a variety of others that are of importance to players and are based on CFG's extensive experience in statistical analysis as it relates to online gaming.

Obviously, I can't tell you to trust CFG. This is your choice, based (hopefully) on data and analysis (rather than conjecture and bias). However, CFG is our choice, and they receive not only our trust, but our reliance on their technical skills and experience.

I have only one comment that I believe I am allowed to make (without receiving excessive abuse) concerning the InterCasino Payout Percentage Information link which you provided. Going back, as they do, to what I am assuming is the beginning of 1998 (in total, 174 months), and providing, as they do, a certification report for just 1 of those months (May of 2010) would not cause me to reply "They already do this" to the statement "try to get them to release their auditing certification as well -- the monthly RTP results, the head, the tail, the whole damn thing."

Chris
 

ThePOGG

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I have only one comment that I believe I am allowed to make (without receiving excessive abuse) concerning the InterCasino Payout Percentage Information link which you provided. Going back, as they do, to what I am assuming is the beginning of 1998 (in total, 174 months), and providing, as they do, a certification report for just 1 of those months (May of 2010) would not cause me to reply "They already do this" to the statement "try to get them to release their auditing certification as well -- the monthly RTP results, the head, the tail, the whole damn thing."

Hey Chris,

Firstly let me state that if i was going to pick a certificate to trust i would pick CFG every time again and again. My hesitation in placing complete trust in it is that as with TST and eCorga it's a paid for certificate. Long before i started my site i was familiar with the work of EJ and as such i know his work can be trusted on a mathematical level and it's very obvious even from a surface level glance that CFG provide a far more detailed look at the actual games a casino offers than the other two. But as long as it's a paid for certificate, it's alway going to leave room for dishonesty.

At this stage i'm going to emphasize emphatically that i'm not stating that the CFG team would be open to this, but i have to place trust that they aren't. Until that financial benefit is taken out of the equation that question always has to be asked. Hell even when it is you can't always trust regulation - look at the UK banks/newspapers/police. As such i don't place any real value in any of the certifications that are offered, although i would be inclinde to adjust up the 'Trustworthiness' stat a little for using CFG.

As to InterCasino's stats - totally agree. That was posted simply as that seemed to be what TLC was looking for.
 

TheLastCylon

Banned User - violation of rule 1.19
There's little that I could say in defense of CFG that hasn't already been said by Binary128, but I just want to explain my desire for their (his?) testing with recent statements.

Basically, POGG, you said that you would say that CFG is the best, even if they cannot be fully trusted. Especially in the world of online gambling, a healthy distrust of operators, auditors, programmers, hell everything is a good thing; I'm the world's biggest advocate of that. But since I'm invested in the industry --I play a lot of games-- I need to orient my desires around some sort of baseline. I can either re-list my baseline every time I proffer an argument or I can simply point to things and say "do this."

That's why Galewind/Pinnacle is my baseline for a casino operator and why CFG is my baseline for an auditor. I can simply point to them and say "this is the best around, at least for now, so do this." I still don't fully trust anyone, but I can't allow that distrust to prevent me from openly recognizing the best, and thus demanding similar stuff from everyone in the industry. That's why I bring up CFG as the thing that I want to see and think that it's reasonable to do so.
 

binary128

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ThePOGG,

I got a bit of a smile in attempting to visualize your "Trust-o-Meter", especially as the design began to change such that the application of certain lubricants became required :D

("Why cannot you sign zee papers? Because you have broken all of my fingers.")

Yeah, so many of these types of threads, either partially or completely, boil down to the issue of trust. I remember when Jufo and I first started going back and forth on this. (He and I have done this many times now.)

In response I made a post that contained the following:

As a fellow human being, living in the same world as anyone reading (or contributing to) this thread, I think that "leaps of faith" are just unavoidable.

Anyone that downloads an application from a web site and installs that application on their computer has taken what I would consider to be a huge leap of faith. Anyone that even browses the internet without having every form of blocker known to mankind (script blocker, Flash blocker, cookie blocker, ad blocker, port blocker, virus blocker, spyware blocker, malware blocker) turned on and set to "Black & Decker Mode" (which is how I browse, actually) is taking a leap of faith.

So, if "leaps of faith" are unavoidable, the question becomes "How far do I have to jump?" And the best answer to that one is, I think, "As little as possible."


I agree with you. Regardless of who, or what organization, is providing the "Seal of Approval", if there are human beings involved then there's a weak link - the distance of the leap can't be zero.

Anyway, you know our company at least enough to offer an informed opinion. I'd like to think that we represent an operational benchmark, TheLastCylon's "baseline", in certain areas. (Agreed ChopleyIOM, not in slot design.)

I don't get to judge that competition. But I'd like to think that our "Here's the data, and here's the proof of that data." documentation represents a minimum distance in the "Leap of Faith" category.

And one of the big reasons for that is the trust that I have in Certified Fair Gambling, and in that one little sentence:

Audits were conducted on a subset of games using a variety of statistical tests for fairness.

Chris
 

binary128

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ThePOGG,

I also want to thank you for doing the work, the shit work, necessary to get and publish information which can only be of value to the Players. You've stated several times - you're aware that this is just one step, the first step, in a multi-step journey. But, prior to this first step, you're just standing still.

Carry on, noble Percival.

Chris
 
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