Intercasino (Crypto) slots RTP?

[Pinababy69]

I worked for a software provider that insisted that I reduce the RTP on several slots in order to make more money.
I argued (unsuccessfully) that in the long run, it would reduce revenue.
Three years after that, I compared a reduced-RTP game with one of similar ilk (non-branded, same # of lines, similar features).
The reduced game (only a 1-2% reduction) showed short-term gains in revenue, but a long-term drop-off in wagering and revenue that was far steeper than the game we hadn't reduced.
I theorized that both games should have dropped off given their age and newer, branded content, etc. but the reduced RTP game's wagering and revenue dropped off a cliff.

Increased RTP=increased wagering=satisfied, entertained customers=more revenue in the long-run.

My apologies in advance for a short derail of such an interesting, and serious, thread. Just wanted to say that it is great to see you posting Scooter. Please stick around...I always looked forward to your knowledgeable and well thought out posts.

Back on topic!!

 

[TheLastCylon]

Scooter,

I know that you won't want to reveal too much data, but who was requesting the game changes? How was the business model set up, is basically what I'm asking. Were the requests coming from the casino operators or from the software company that took a share of the profits from each deployment?

Addition: And the most important question! Were those T-RTP changes made public? As in, could people go to a page and see that the numbers had dropped by 1%, or was the drop-off entirely from the "feel" of the game?

 

[Scooter7]

Scooter,

I know that you won't want to reveal too much data, but who was requesting the game changes? How was the business model set up, is basically what I'm asking. Were the requests coming from the casino operators or from the software company that took a share of the profits from each deployment?

Addition: And the most important question! Were those T-RTP changes made public? As in, could people go to a page and see that the numbers had dropped by 1%, or was the drop-off entirely from the "feel" of the game?

Business/marketing experts at the company that assumed lower RTP=more profit.

Also, regarding RTP, it's potentially a very misleading number.
If I design a slot machine with a massive jackpot or top payout(s), the vast majority of players will lose their shirts while a couple of lucky punters make off with almost all of the RTP.
Publishing the numbers really becomes a marketing exercise, not a trust or customer service measure.
Adding a very short description of how volatile the game is (in general terms) might go hand in hand with displaying RTP, but RTP alone is only meaningful to a point.

 

[binary128]

I worked for a software provider that insisted that I reduce the RTP on several slots in order to make more money.
I argued (unsuccessfully) that in the long run, it would reduce revenue.
Three years after that, I compared a reduced-RTP game with one of similar ilk (non-branded, same # of lines, similar features).
The reduced game (only a 1-2% reduction) showed short-term gains in revenue, but a long-term drop-off in wagering and revenue that was far steeper than the game we hadn't reduced.
I theorized that both games should have dropped off given their age and newer, branded content, etc. but the reduced RTP game's wagering and revenue dropped off a cliff.

Increased RTP=increased wagering=satisfied, entertained customers=more revenue in the long-run.

I agree with your final equation. Fortunately, my current deployment allows me to do whatever I want, and in any way I want to do it.

I don't have any slot data to compare, because they've always run at 97.5% RTP. But I do have Baccarat. I originally released the game with a 5% commission on the Banker bet, and an 8-to-1 payout on the Tie. About 2 years ago I dropped the Banker commission to 4%, and increased the Tie payout to 9-to-1. It took awhile for the changes to make an impact, but about 1 year later the Baccarat game count had tripled.

Regarding your follow up post, in which you reference variance as an important factor in slot play - I guess from Pinababy69's post that you've been off the reservation for a bit. You missed a pretty lengthy, and for me anyway a very interesting, discussion on that topic in this thread.

Chris

 

[binary128]

Occasionally I will work with an individual who has a complaint against a casino I don't audit as part of CFG. In three cases over the past year I have directly investigated casino software for rogue behavior that was brought to my attention. Often I find out about potential candidates through a thread on this (or another) forum. In two out of three of those cases in the last year, I found the software to be rogue. One was addressed publicly (BLR Tech), the other was a confidential matter. Once in a while a casino software provider will contact me to audit a program they think may have a bug. I helped debug an existing online program in the last year that overpaid craps by over $200,000 and helped them recover their losses. I have created PAR sheets for slot machines for online casinos (get the android app "Slot City" -- that's my game), and many other games as well, so I know the inside scoop. I have been hired by online casino software providers to do the mathematical analysis for scores of games they offer. In short, I feel as though there is no part of the software, from it's mathematical analysis to its programming to its auditing that I don't have direct experience with. I am certain that no one at eCogra or TST has this level of expertise.

Eliot,

Thanks for filling in some of the critical details of what CFG does and why/how it does it. As you say, you've been from the trenches to the Boardroom, and I think you're right in saying that this provides you with a unique perspective.

You're not force fitting some generic Quality System Standard (ISO 9000 and their ilk) onto the very special case of online Casinos. I really can't think of any other market where some (many?) of the businesses are actively trying to steal money from their customers, and some (many?) of the customers are actively trying to steal money from the businesses.

I think that unless you approach that market, and the auditing of that market, with that perspective, and the detailed knowledge and experience required to deal with it, well then you're just attempting to shoehorn the same control systems onto online gambling as one might apply to the manufacture of door hinges.

Chris

 

[TheLastCylon]

Scooter,

I agree that RTP is not the whole story vis-a-vis game experience. I was primarily curious because if the lower T-RTP numbers were made public, that means that "traditional" marketing dynamics could explain the decrease in game count since people physically saw the lower number. If the numbers were not made public, that means that the drop-off in overall revenue was from customers "sensing" that the game had changed.

The "traditional" marketing explanation almost undoubtedly explains increase in game count mentioned by Binary regarding baccarat, since the payout and commission are frequently seen on the table. Likewise, video poker fanatics will actively seek out pay tables, making the most important thing the publicly available numbers. It would be interesting to get insight into the behavior of slot players.

 

[Nifty29]

So, the final answer to my original question is that it is not possible to provide an auditor with false/fudged data?

 

[Scooter7]

I agree with your final equation. Fortunately, my current deployment allows me to do whatever I want, and in any way I want to do it.



Chris

Hi Chris,

Would you be willing to send my your email address via PM?
I'd very much like to have a conversation with someone who is allowed to do whatever he wants


Thanks

 

[Scooter7]

You missed a pretty lengthy, and for me anyway a very interesting, discussion on that topic in this thread.

Chris

I did see that thread and found it interesting.
I've been doing some consulting and some golfing lately, but will try to log in to the forum more often.

 

[Scooter7]

@Cylon,

The RTP change was (in my opinion) 'sensed' by the players-numbers for the two games I compared were never published.

 

[TheLastCylon]

Scooter,

That's very interesting to me. I've never read or heard any casino reps directly stating that customers are idiots (although I suspect that many do feel this way), but I have seen them claim that a small T-RTP drop would be undetectable by the user. This shows that isn't the case. The user may not even be explicitly aware of the change, as in when players say games go cold; it may actually be subconscious, where a player simply finds himself playing one game more often than another.

 

[binary128]

Hi Chris,

Would you be willing to send my your email address via PM?
I'd very much like to have a conversation with someone who is allowed to do whatever he wants

Thanks

Scooter7,

I'm easy to find. My email address is on the "About Us" page of our

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

Chris

 

[ThePOGG]

Scooter,

That's very interesting to me. I've never read or heard any casino reps directly stating that customers are idiots (although I suspect that many do feel this way), but I have seen them claim that a small T-RTP drop would be undetectable by the user. This shows that isn't the case. The user may not even be explicitly aware of the change, as in when players say games go cold; it may actually be subconscious, where a player simply finds himself playing one game more often than another.

I'll have to go back through this thread as i haven't been here in a couple of weeks due to working, but what you've said is interesting and i'd like to put a different perspective on it;

To a casino rep a change of 1-5% to the RTP may seem like a small change - when you're RTP is 96%, is it really that much different to 94%? - however, if we reverse these figures and instead look at house edge the original house edge was 4% and it's now increased by a very hefty 50% to get to 6%. Changes seem small to casino reps because they deal with the RTP figures, which when looked at from a player perspective is misleadingly large.