IMPORTANT - CAP Euro Event Changes

[RobWin]

Actually, just for shits and giggles, here's an alternative viewpoint:

CAP primarily derive revenue from the affiliate programs advertising. The affiliate programs survive off players generated by affiliates. The more affiliates that attend the conferences, the more deals will be done. The more deals that are done, the more money affiliate programs make. The more money affiliate programs make, the less they need to advertise. The less they need to advertise...

I for one would never buy into that line of thinking simply because it's all about the money and enough is never really enough for any company, thus the reason there will always be advertising and advertising outlets such as these.

Can you tell me if I've come close Rob? I haven't been following this saga for the last year..so this past half hour was a crash course on the latest goings on of GPWA/Casino City/CAP...and all the highly ethical people involved with all of them.

I think you are definitely in the same room Pina, and you also summed it up purdy well too IMO.

I'm not equating the LAC conference as a CAP conference. As far as I'm concerned, even though there may be a CAP finger or two in the pie,

"There may be", Bryan? Well, by reading Alex's and Warren's posts...it has most definitely been made fairly clear now about their financial arrangement IMO, other than the percentage of split involved. I also think that judging by Warren's post and statement that CAP (Warren, Lou, whomever else) also has more than just a finger or two involved, wouldn't you at least agree with that?

Excerpt from Warrens Post: A deal was struck whereby iGaming Business (hereafter referred as "iGB") would handle all of the sales, logistics, and planning of these conferences, and CAP would handle all of the marketing to affiliates and operators. All invoicing was to be handled by iGB and there would be a split of profits on these conferences (the exact split is not relevant, nor will it be discussed from either side as our contract treats this as strictly confidential)

that's not a justification for an all out boycott of the event.

Well again, after all of the ethics and integrity issues of the recent past involving CAP, Warren, etc. etc....then what would be justification for an all out boycott in your opinion, just curious? I do remember you saying last year that you were boycotting that event, dinner, awards show I believe. What has made you have a change of heart or thought now?

The reason I am going is for my

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which I feel supersedes any affiliate conflicts/dilemmas/bitch-and-moaning/rogueness etc. since it deals primarily with the players and what they want.

That's important, isn't it?

Absolutely, that is most likely the most important aspect of the entire conference IMO, kudos to you Bryan for setting that up. Personally, I would have rather seen it at another event though where CAP was not involved at all.

All this posturing and banner waving is secondary to player needs IMO.

Agreed!
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[The Dude]

Well again, after all of the ethics and integrity issues of the recent past involving CAP, Warren, etc. etc....then what would be justification for an all out boycott in your opinion, just curious? I do remember you saying last year that you were boycotting that event, dinner, awards show I believe. What has made you have a change of heart or thought now?

No change of heart, I just don't believe it is the same thing.

I spoke with Alex in Copenhagen a few months ago and proposed the idea of having players join in a panel discussion. The reasoning behind this is that there are many players in the UK and a number of well-read veteran players are in the London area. The target audience is webmasters and aff managers and operators - all present at the LAC. There is really no other place where this can be done.

There's nothing in it for me except for doing it. Max is there on my nickle, and we have three members of this forum that have graciously accepted to be there and give us some guidance on what they feel is important.

As for last year, I never said I was "boycotting" the whole thing. I just said I was choosing not to go to the conference for a number of reasons. I went to the awards dinner - that was strictly social - but it was the conference I had no interest in.

 

[bonustreak]

All this posturing and banner waving is secondary to player needs IMO. I think a lot of people are forgetting that. It's because of the player that affiliates are able to run a business, and this is the first time EVER that players have been invited to share what's on their minds.

I am very happy to see this panel at the event and I wonder what took you so long to get this going, must be the beers slowing down the thought process Seriously I am telling everyone I know that is going to the conference that this is a must attend panel session, it is so very important that everyone remember this is not only about Webmasters, Affiliates, Casino Programs etc it is about the players too! There would be no iGaming industry without the casino players plain and simple. I applaud Bryan for once again standing up and reminding everyone of this fact.

People get so caught up in battles and worrying about who benefits from what and the players are always forgotten about. There are so many issues players are dealing with in these crazy times they need a voice at this conference and I hope to see this become a standard panel session in the future.

CAC has no interference and can be supported since I believe this year because the Prague super conference is in June.

PS. Rob make sure it is a fire proof mattress at least!

 

[RobWin]

No change of heart, I just don't believe it is the same thing.

I spoke with Alex in Copenhagen a few months ago and proposed the idea of having players join in a panel discussion. The reasoning behind this is that there are many players in the UK and a number of well-read veteran players are in the London area. The target audience is webmasters and aff managers and operators - all present at the LAC. There is really no other place where this can be done.

There's nothing in it for me except for doing it. Max is there on my nickle, and we have three members of this forum that have graciously accepted to be there and give us some guidance on what they feel is important.

As for last year, I never said I was "boycotting" the whole thing. I just said I was choosing not to go to the conference for a number of reasons. I went to the awards dinner - that was strictly social - but it was the conference I had no interest in.

Thanks for answering back and clarifying Bryan.

Don't know why but the past couple of months has most definitely made my head sore from all the banging it has went thru against my office wall...Old Attachment (Invalid) as far as discussing ethics and integrity issues with peeps here and there.

The more I become involved with this industry each and every day the more it makes me wonder why I even bother to get into a discussion involving ethics and integrity. This is not meant at you Bryan, just a general broad sweeping statement based on my recent discussions I've had in a few of the threads here regarding transparency, integrity involved in just simply closing the rogue affiliate account, ethics...etc. etc. etc. bla bla bla

Guess if I want to ever make the big bucks in this business then I need to just STFU, stop crusading and start playing ball with the "good ole boy network" it seems.

There are many various shades of grey, gray...in this business, that's for sure!
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[Pinababy69]

Good God woman! What's wrong with two cups tied to the end of a long bit of string?!

It's not just this industry. It's pretty much every industry that involves money changing hands. You think this industry's bad, go work in the music industry for a bit! Makes this one look like a prayer meeting in Heaven.

Wherever there is money, there will be hypocrisy and that's just human nature Pina. Can't be stopped...ain't unique...just the way it always has been and always will be.

Doesn't mean you can't change a few people along the way though. Just I think some people (not aimed at you) probably think it should change a few more than it ever will.

LMAO at the cans and string. Simmo, if I thought it would work, I'd try it, trust me. Anything to not have to pay Ma Bell (Bell Canada) one red cent.

Your other comment probably was aimed at me in part, and I would wholeheartedly agree with it. It's a character flaw, but I'll never understand why more people don't think like me when it comes to ethics. I could never compromise ethics and integrity for the sake of making more money, and I don't know how others can. It's the way I've always been, and probably always will be. It's the whole reason I ceased being an affiliate years ago. I only ever promoted four casinos/groups tops at any time...pretty hard to make money with that limited choice. And if I were forced to name casinos that I would feel comfortable promoting nowadays....it wouldn't be too many more than four or five at the most.

There's nothing in it for me except for doing it. Max is there on my nickle, and we have three members of this forum that have graciously accepted to be there and give us some guidance on what they feel is important.

I think the player panel is a super idea Bryan. Wish I could have been there, but my lottery numbers didn't come in. Damned if I'll use that psychic again.

I hope it proves to be useful, and becomes a more regular thing at other conferences and get togethers.

I read somewhere that there may be some type of conference coming up in July in Toronto. I'd like to find out what that's all about and who is sponsoring it?

Guess if I want to ever make the big bucks in this business then I need to just STFU, stop crusading and start playing ball with the "good ole boy network" it seems.
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The proverbial nail on the head Rob!! Do you remember a few of the conversations that you and BB and Rusty and I all had a few months back, in relation to money and this industry? You are now starting to fully realize how truly difficult it is to maintain integrity and ethics, and still make any decent amount of money in this industry. I still believe it can be done, but it is an uphill battle. And when you dare question anyone on their choices, you are met with indignation and people wondering if you're nuts. Ho hum.

 

[RobWin]

The proverbial nail on the head Rob!! Do you remember a few of the conversations that you and BB and Rusty and I all had a few months back, in relation to money and this industry? You are now starting to fully realize how truly difficult it is to maintain integrity and ethics, and still make any decent amount of money in this industry. I still believe it can be done, but it is an uphill battle. And when you dare question anyone on their choices, you are met with indignation and people wondering if you're nuts. Ho hum.

Yep, totally agree Pina. If there is a way to maintain integrity and ethics, and still make any decent amount of money in this industry I will damn sure figure it out. That's a mission I am on now. I've never failed at anything I have every attempted or started and I sure don't plan on failing at this venture. Thanks for the encouragement Pina, it's always appreciated!
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[Simmo!]

You are now starting to fully realize how truly difficult it is to maintain integrity and ethics, and still make any decent amount of money in this industry. I still believe it can be done, but it is an uphill battle. And when you dare question anyone on their choices, you are met with indignation and people wondering if you're nuts. Ho hum.

But again Pina it's not just this industry. It's EVERY industry. It's money, plain and simple and it doesn't matter where you go or which industry you are in, many people compromise ethics for money.

And many people don't like being questioned and forced to be open on a public message board by someone who themselves is hiding behind a comfortable curtain of anonymity. And the way in which a lot of people pose the questions are themselves confrontational.

Also, everyone has a different idea, or certainly different "levels", of what constitutes ethics. Like a debate I just had with Robwin in another thread. Of course there are obvious boundaries, but some are less obvious and people will draw their own. Where these are drawn in sand, those should be respected even if they are not agreed with IMO. This is one such case.

I for one would never buy into that line of thinking simply because it's all about the money and enough is never really enough for any company, thus the reason there will always be advertising and advertising outlets such as these

I don't either as it happens, but it is nonetheless a perspective that would work for an affiliate program that felt they didn't want to pay CAP any more than they have to, yet still needed to achieve their targets.

 

[RobWin]

Also, everyone has a different idea, or certainly different "levels", of what constitutes ethics. Like a debate I just had with Robwin in another thread. Of course there are obvious boundaries, but some are less obvious and people will draw their own. Where these are drawn in sand, those should be respected even if they are not agreed with IMO. This is one such case.

Yep I agree...and it was also a very good debate too that I thoroughly enjoyed...thanks again for participating and going head to head with me on that one Simmo...

I don't either as it happens, but it is nonetheless a perspective that would work for an affiliate program that felt they didn't want to pay CAP any more than they have to, yet still needed to achieve their targets.

Agreed!
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[Pinababy69]

But again Pina it's not just this industry. It's EVERY industry. It's money, plain and simple and it doesn't matter where you go or which industry you are in, many people compromise ethics for money.

And many people don't like being questioned and forced to be open on a public message board by someone who themselves is hiding behind a comfortable curtain of anonymity. And the way in which a lot of people pose the questions are themselves confrontational.

Also, everyone has a different idea, or certainly different "levels", of what constitutes ethics. Like a debate I just had with Robwin in another thread. Of course there are obvious boundaries, but some are less obvious and people will draw their own. Where these are drawn in sand, those should be respected even if they are not agreed with IMO. This is one such case.

I agree on the money aspect Simmo...whoever it was that said "the love of money is the root of all evil" was a genius (who did say it btw?).

While there may be hypocrisy and greed in every industry, I can honestly say that I have never come across it at the level I've seen in online gaming. I was a legal secretary for four years in a fairly large law firm, I worked at one of the largest stockbrokers on Bay Street for three years, I was the nightshift manager at a phone sex business for two years (didn't do the calls, I ran the business ie. booking the calls, keeping transaction records, running credit cards, advertising, etc), I worked in bars off and on for ten years as a bartender and a waitress, and I now run my ex's contracting business. Back in my late 20's/early 30's, I hung out with bikers and had/have a few that are very close friends. None of these things ever came close to being as sleazy as this industry is. And I say that with a completely straight face, and in all seriousness. The phone sex thing was a business, run professionally and with strict guidelines as to what was and wasn't allowed. Calls were monitored on a random basis to ensure these guidelines were adhered to. I never saw this complete lack of ethics with any of the lawyers or stockbrokers I worked with/for (both big money businesses). Even the bikers.....while some of their business may not have been "above board", there were no innocents caught in the crossfire. Christ, I've even known drug dealers in the past who have shown more consideration for their customers than some affiliates show for their players. So while I get what you're trying to say....my own personal experience differs greatly. I could work in a phone sex business for years, and hang with bikers for close to ten years (and still keep in touch)..but I couldn't stomach being an affiliate for more than a year or so. That says alot to me.

As to the levels of ethics...and more specifically, let's say what constitutes a rogue casino? I can certainly agree that not everyone has the same criteria. However, there are exceptions...I would think Virtual group being one of them. How could any webmaster who claims to have ethics or an iota of integrity....ever promote this group? They don't come more rogue than this, yet you still get some of the biggest webmasters on the net, who happily promote them, and even go out of their way to defend them.

I'm sorry...but I personally have never come across this type of behaviour in any venture or business or personal dealings I've ever had. And I'm no angel, trust me.

Interesting conversation though Simmo.

BTW, I've used up my thanks for today or I would have thanked your post Muppet Man.

 

[RobWin]

PS. Rob make sure it is a fire proof mattress at least!

It is fer sure Streak...lol
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[RobWin]

I agree on the money aspect Simmo...whoever it was that said "the love of money is the root of all evil" was a genius (who did say it btw?)

1 Timothy 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
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[Pinababy69]

1 Timothy 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
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It's biblical?? Well, bitch slap me Jesus!!

Thanks Rob...guess I should have been reading my bible instead of partying on Saturday nights, lol.

 

[RobWin]

It's biblical?? Well, bitch slap me Jesus!!

Thanks Rob...guess I should have been reading my bible instead of partying on Saturday nights, lol.

ROTFLMFAO Pina!! ...I'm a biker dude too and I knew that one...
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[Simmo!]

I agree on the money aspect Simmo......while there may be hypocrisy and greed in every industry, I can honestly say that I have never come across it at the level I've seen in online gaming.

That's because there is more money in gambling than most other industries though. Hence it attracts more people in fo a "quick buck". Affiliates, casinos, players...everywhere you look. The lure of money attracts people that want it, pure and simple.

Look at the land-based gambling industry and how Vegas grew up That would put online gaming's "ethics" in the shade by comparison

Everyone here would agree on the Virtual thing I'm sure. In the instance recently, I think I'm right in saying the affiliate agreed it was a major faux-pas and corrected their stance ongoing aswell. The issue dragged on because of these boundaries drawn in sand I referred to. Anyway, lets not go through that one again in this thread - we agree on it


PS. I used to ride a pushbike. Dudes

 

[Pinababy69]

ROTFLMFAO Pina!! ...I'm a biker dude too and I knew that one...
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LOL....couldn't resist.

That's because there is more money in gambling than most other industries though. Hence it attracts more people in fo a "quick buck". Affiliates, casinos, players...everywhere you look. The lure of money attracts people that want it, pure and simple.

Look at the land-based gambling industry and how Vegas grew up That would put online gaming's "ethics" in the shade by comparison

Everyone here would agree on the Virtual thing I'm sure. In the instance recently, I think I'm right in saying the affiliate agreed it was a major faux-pas and corrected their stance ongoing aswell. The issue dragged on because of these boundaries drawn in sand I referred to. Anyway, lets not go through that one again in this thread - we agree on it


PS. I used to ride a pushbike. Dudes

Fair point on the "quick buck" thing Simmo. Half of the problem with SOME affiliates and websites is the fact that the people just throw them together, and throw up banners for every casino in existence, without doing a lick of research. As you said...they're just looking to make some fast cash, with the least amount of actual work. And not many look at it long term in re: building the site, and offering real and valuable content. So...point taken on that aspect of it.

Agreed on the Virtual thing...only mentioned it to highlight the fact that the industry can't even seem to agree on a true rogue operation, and do what's necessary to make them shape up or ship out.

LMAO at pushbikes...ha ha. My funny Muppet Man...I'm visualizing.

 

[jetset]

I've been offline for a few hours and was delighted to see that after almost a year Warren has at last admitted that there is a CAP financial benefit from the affiliate conference under discussion here.

What a pity that such an fundamental notification - which doesn't include any really sensitive financial information - was not made early last year instead of all the verbal gymnastics we've been served up by those concerned.

I guess two cliches are appropriate here:

[In affiliate-land] Time heals all wounds and

Better late than never.

You have to give it to Warren - he's a survivor!

 

[jetset]

Actually, just for shits and giggles, here's an alternative viewpoint:

CAP primarily derive revenue from the affiliate programs advertising. The affiliate programs survive off players generated by affiliates. The more affiliates that attend the conferences, the more deals will be done. The more deals that are done, the more money affiliate programs make. The more money affiliate programs make, the less they need to advertise. The less they need to advertise...

Afraid that proposition is way too tenuous to be credible.

 

[jetset]

Re: Post #46

Thanks for summarising that so succinctly, Pinababy!

 

[The Dude]

While there may be hypocrisy and greed in every industry, I can honestly say that I have never come across it at the level I've seen in online gaming...

...The more I become involved with this industry each and every day the more it makes me wonder why I even bother to get into a discussion involving ethics and integrity. This is not meant at you Bryan, just a general broad sweeping statement based on my recent discussions I've had in a few of the threads here regarding transparency, integrity involved in just simply closing the rogue affiliate account, ethics...etc. etc. etc. bla bla bla

Guess if I want to ever make the big bucks in this business then I need to just STFU, stop crusading and start playing ball with the "good ole boy network" it seems.

There are many various shades of grey, gray...in this business, that's for sure!
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I don't think you're seeing the big picture quite yet. There are many ethical and player responsive/fair gaming entities out there. You're getting distracted by a lot of negativity which may be getting blown out of proportion at times. Sure there are ethically challenged people, but like Ian pointed out, you'll find this in every industry.

I have first hand knowledge of a crapload of casino failures where players were left empty handed. Players were screaming "rogue!" yet it had nothing to do with ethics - the nemesis was inexperience and mismanagement. In most cases, players received their deposits back - in fact it's a rare occurrence where players DO NOT receive their deposits back. That's some seriously bad shit - but that rarely happens.

It helps trying to put some of this into perspective.

And with an industry that is constantly under attack, you will never have true transparency. Imagine dealing with a psychopath who loses his bankroll at your online casino (his fault). Would you want him to come waltzing in and threatening your employees - or worse yet, dropping by your house and threatening your family? I think not. And believe me, shit like this happens.

And for every creep I've met in this industry, I've met about 100 good honest people. And yeah, I've have the privilege of meeting many many people at conferences and what not, so my "perspective" is somewhat broader than most.

As for what goes on in the fora, naturally people focus on the negative - for instance when Gambling Lobby went tits-up years ago. There was a shit-storm of freaked out players - it was a really big deal. In the end, there were a total of 15 players affected to a tune of about 15k in winnings/deposits - and it was all covered in the end by a new owner. This is one of many examples of what may be large issues, but in reality are not.

But who wants to hear about the hundreds of thousands of players who are quite content with the service and play action they receive every day? A litter of puppies don't make the news, but when they get runned over by a Monster-truck - it does. (eww - sorry).

In essence, I feel it's important to maintain a good balanced perspective on what is actually happening - and don't be lead by any pied piper. Make decisions for yourself.

 

[Simmo!]

Someone also recently pointed out in another thread that around 95% of people lose in the lonegr term, so the number of unhappy people is naturally going to be vastly bigger than the number of happy people. And, the whole gambling industry has a lot of "them vs us" inherent in the nature of the business: Big Bad Business vs The Little Man.

 

[The Dude]

Someone also recently pointed out in another thread that around 95% of people lose in the long term...

I bet he became an affiliate

 

[mojo]

No change of heart, I just don't believe it is the same thing.

I spoke with Alex in Copenhagen a few months ago and proposed the idea of having players join in a panel discussion. The reasoning behind this is that there are many players in the UK and a number of well-read veteran players are in the London area. The target audience is webmasters and aff managers and operators - all present at the LAC. There is really no other place where this can be done.

There's nothing in it for me except for doing it. Max is there on my nickle, and we have three members of this forum that have graciously accepted to be there and give us some guidance on what they feel is important.

As for last year, I never said I was "boycotting" the whole thing. I just said I was choosing not to go to the conference for a number of reasons. I went to the awards dinner - that was strictly social - but it was the conference I had no interest in.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll just post what I posted at gpwa. I am on my way to exile island slowly but surely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpratt
GPWA give us exposure via a private forum, in their emails and in
their mag so they get a free stand (worth 4,500), profile in
the delegate guide, logos on the website, and distribution of the mag
in the media area.

I'm sure 4,500 is not the top of the line booth. How many booths are
there again? 100? 200? How much advertising? What is CAPS cut again? I
must of missed that.

I found it. It's confidential.

Cap made 4mil a year on the CAP forum by strong-arming programs. That has been admitted, signed sealed and delivered by GPWA. Are
the confs the same? Taking advantage of our beloved aff programs?
Again? Little birdies tell me these confs are VERY expensive.

Has the Cardspike affiliates been paid yet? Who owns Absolute Slots
aka FortuneReel or whatever it is now? What happened with that?

4,500 x how many booths? Minimum? Maximum? To Cap again? Will we
let 2010 see an even more increase in price?

One year ago:

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December 8, 2009 Casinomeister writes:

Quote:
That's the problem with the affy's - short term memory loss. And that is
exactly what CAP is banking on - that in a couple of years from the
great meltdown, all
is forgotten...

Yes all is forgotten but not by affys. I am a great admirer of CM, please don't get me wrong .. however.. One only has to read. Affys are not the problem here.

Please lets not let what happened a year ago repeat itself. Protect our aff programs from CAP.
__________________

 

[bonustreak]

I'm sure 4,500 is not the top of the line booth. How many booths are
there again? 100? 200?

Not sure never really counted them all but I do have 2 pics that you can look at and from them I can see that GPWA had a pretty nice set up and a nice size booth and if I remember right it was smack in the middle of the conference center and in a really good traffic zone but I am sure they can confirm that themselves. As you can see Villento affiliates had a rather small booth with no walls and I don't know the price of it but compared to the GPWA booth it was not as nice.

 

[mojo]

Not sure never really counted them all

Thanks for the pics bonustreak. :notworthy

Wonder how many booths and millions of $$$$ from confs? Also from the website there are platinum sponsers etc that gets better stuff.

Poor Villento!

Hugs BS.

 

[bonustreak]

I don't think it is about being poor anything but about how much money a company wants to spend on a booth Mojo. Some have massive and some have small it is all the choice of the operator. My point was that GPWA has a very nice booth.

 

[jetset]

Clearly the income flowing from this sort of event is considerable, even after the probably expensive overhead has been paid, and the affiliates attending have been feted.

I understand that it's free for affiliates, thanks to the generosity of sponsors and the income from exhibiting and promotional activity charges?

CAP and iGB are on to a good thing here, it would appear, but that ten months of deception still rankles for me.

 

[RobWin]

Clearly the income flowing from this sort of event is considerable, even after the probably expensive overhead has been paid, and the affiliates attending have been feted.

I understand that it's free for affiliates, thanks to the generosity of sponsors and the income from exhibiting and promotional activity charges?

CAP and iGB are on to a good thing here, it would appear, but that ten months of deception still rankles for me.

Exactly Jetset, and that was my whole point of reviving this 10 month old thread. Just seems to me that that could have been made clear a long time ago when both you and I asked Alex that question previously. Most likely it would still not be clear had the thread started by Mojo at the GPWA not been made!

Hi all,

Please see below some PR on the CAP events that will be going out today - Don't worry the changes are all 100% positive in that everything that was great about the events will be retained but admission will be easier for all affiliates and their will be a name change so the event will be 100% independent.

I now also believe that that original statement by Alex in his first post here and in Red above was also a bit misleading as well.

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[Webzcas]

I now also believe that that original statement by Alex in his first post here and in Red above was also a bit misleading as well.

You are spot on there Rob. Indeed I would go on to say it was INTENTIONALLY misleading.

That said, my hotels are booked and I will still be attending. But this will be the last event I will attend that has CAP's involvement. I am sure many also feel the same.

I intend to use my time there meeting with fellow affiliates and programs.

 

[jetset]

Four things persuade me that use of the word 'intentional' is not unjustified here:

1) The early posts in this thread (check them out for yourselves) where the question of financial consideration on the conferences deal is not-so-adroitly side-stepped repeatedly, when both parties had entered into a profit sharing agreement previously and knew it.

2) Pinababy's succinct summary of the GPWA discussions, included in this thread, which outlines the sequence of events leading to the sudden disclosures by iGB and CAP (despite previous excuses of contract confidentiality).

3) The 'coincidence' of both iGB and CAP representatives spilling the beans in the wake of the JTodd disclosures and subsequent events at the GPWA.

4) Perhaps most of all, Warren Jolly's recent statement at GPWA which to my mind virtually admits this subterfuge. Specifically:

Quote:

"In early 2009, due to our own internal challenges & restructuring, a decision was made to distance the [conference] events and magazines from CAP.

and

"A decision was also made to re-brand the conferences, which remains in effect today.

"From a financial perspective CAP is still a beneficiary - we co-founded the conferences, attracted the affiliates/operators, and rightfully deserved to continue to benefit financially from these events."

Unquote

 

[jetset]

Sorry - 5 points now persuade me that there was a deliberate deception, thanks to RobWin's eagle eye above:

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexpratt
Hi all,

Please see below some PR on the CAP events that will be going out today - Don't worry the changes are all 100% positive in that everything that was great about the events will be retained but admission will be easier for all affiliates and their will be a name change so the event will be 100% independent.
Unquote

 

[Webzcas]

I think Alex has been caught between a rock and hard place here, what with being an employee and having contractual and confidential obligations to adhere to. So I would not lay the blame at his feet.

Also those who are attending London, should still do so IMO. There is no point cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I am not going to support Affiliate Media. But I am going for the first time ever in it's entirety to catch up with peers, friends and affiliate managers.

The same goes for all others who have already made arrangements to attend. By pulling out now, would only have an adverse affect on the affiliates who pull out in light of this confirmation of CAP's continued involvement.

 

[jetset]

CAP is perhaps fortunate that Alex is so highly regarded by many opinion formers in the affiliate industry - it's certainly helped to pull them all through this deception.

 

[mojo]

CAP is perhaps fortunate that Alex is so highly regarded by many opinion formers in the affiliate industry - it's certainly helped to pull them all through this deception.

Agreed. We certainly have a fantastic front man. Not his fault we are lied to. However, Robwin brought up this thread that in fact, people LIE.

I have edited this 3 times because it's not proper to call people out. Fk that. Folks LIED to us. Warren LIES. Thanks webz for at least being honest that you paid for your tiks and going. Nothing wrong with that.

I am unbelievably hurt that the rest of us affys aren't so honest.

The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men

Plato (429347 B.C.E.) Ancient Greek Philosopher

 

[mojo]

Testimonial.

I don't know why but every year it seems like I am at least once drunk and wondering the streets with Meister and the crew trying to find a party..lol Last year we gave up after wandering around forever ate McDonald's in Piccadilly Square and I think it was right by the party we were looking for but we were too drunk to see it..lol It was all Debbs fault I think...hahaha Needless to say I feel very safe in London, I love that city!!

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WTF is wrong with this pic?? Are we really supposed to accept that you guys represent Affiliates?

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

 

[mojo]

Ok ok but I think I may have to find a sponsor this time since everyone assumed it was sponsored in Budapest and the drink bill was very high, thanks to all those that chipped in to help pay that!

Drinks on us small affiliates. What a GREAT TIME! Thanks for picking up the tab WARREN!

Warren is laughing at us affiliates all the way to the bank.

 

[spearmaster]

Sorry Mojo, I think you're out of order here. It isn't against the rules to have a good time while attending a conference. Nor did this take place at the conference itself.

Testimonial.




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WTF is wrong with this pic?? Are we really supposed to accept that you guys represent Affiliates?

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

 

[mojo]

Sorry Mojo, I think you're out of order here. It isn't against the rules to have a good time while attending a conference. Nor did this take place at the conference itself.

You are kidding right?

 

[spearmaster]

You are kidding right?

No I'm not kidding.

As long as they represent themselves professionally at the conference and in meeting with operators and affiliate managers, there is no reason why they can't have a good time and even get drunk when on their own time.

 

[maxd]

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

I'd never get drunk until I'd eaten well and done some shopping. Does that answer your question?

And why do you think this year should be any different than previous years. It's London! Of course we're going to drink!

Oh yea, there's also the hours and hours of meetings and discussions, the meet-and-greets, the networking and then the networking and then some networking, etc etc. After all that you can bet your frilly knickers that we're going to get into our cups a bit, at the appropriate times and places of course.

 

[greedygirl]

Testimonial.




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WTF is wrong with this pic?? Are we really supposed to accept that you guys represent Affiliates?

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

This just gets under my skin.

Mojo--I get it that you're angry about the connection to CAP with the conferences, but to go on and start attacking attendees is something that just oversteps the point. And to have to post it at GPWA AND here (and gawd knows where else)...a little over the top???

For MANY of us in this business, we work from home. Conferences are not only a place to do business, but also a place to celebrate some truly wonderful friendships we've created through the years.

I'll be celebrating my tenth year in this business, this year. I've been on both sides of the industry--the casino side and the publishing side. I've been to more conferences and events than I can count and I've probably had one too many hangovers, to be sure. The bottom line is that for every conference and event that I've been to, I've done my work and did it well. No employer in their right mind would invest the sort of money it takes to fly me to all corners of the world and pay my hotel and expenses, if I didn't give a great return on investment.

Further, for those affiliates who are digging into their own pockets to attend, it's a huge chunk of change. Clearly, they are there to do business. SO WHAT if they want to go out and knock a few back???? The good news is that they're adults and can make their own decisions to do as they please.

I just don't get where you're coming from with this.

 

[The Dude]

It's funny how I'm getting a hell of a lot of flack and snippy comments about this whole CAP thing - and I haven't done anything nor am I involved with CAP.

For instance - Mojo decides to point out my name in bolded red as if I'm some wasto drunk crawling around the streets of soho:

I don't know why but every year it seems like I am at least once drunk and wondering the streets with Meister and the crew trying to find a party..lol Last year we gave up after wandering around forever ate McDonald's in Piccadilly Square and I think it was right by the party we were looking for but we were too drunk to see it..lol It was all Debbs fault I think...hahaha Needless to say I feel very safe in London, I love that city!!

Well guess what? I don't have a crew. I just happened to be hanging out with a couple of friends and others who joined us. And I remember it clearly - McDonalds at Leicester Square at 1 (or so) in the morning. It was the worst burger I have ever had in recent memory. No one, including myself was drunk - at all. We had unsuccessfully searched for the Maya Bar that others had gone to and spent a couple of hours wandering around looking for it. There was nothing obnoxious about it. Funny how this crap gets all blown out of proportion.

And how about going to the source?? - published in our newsletter here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/newsletters/

Scroll down to CAP Awards

What really pisses me off is that I'm getting beat up over this whole issue and a number of false and malicious statements are being made about my involvement with the LAC. I am only going to be at the discussion panel that I organized and set up to moderate. That's it. From there I'll probably be headed out to catch a film or two since that's my last day in London.

The only partying I'll probably be doing is at the Meister Meeting - which is my party for our members. So Mojo, I hope you don't mind if I have a couple of beers there.

If in fact, if this has been a deliberate deception, this will be the only LAC or CAP connected events I'll be attending. Again, I feel that player issues trump whatever affiliate politics are taking place here. I'm really surprised that a number of people don't understand this.

If it wasn't for my panel discussion, I wouldn't be there.

 

[KasinoKing]

Also those who are attending London, should still do so IMO. There is no point cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I am not going to support Affiliate Media. But I am going for the first time ever in it's entirety to catch up with peers, friends and affiliate managers.

Same here. These are the only events where I can get out and actually meet people I deal with on the net face-to-face.
Otherwise I'd just be sitting here in my hovel of an office slowly turning into a grumpy old hermit!

Personally I'm not interested in the politics behind the event, or who is getting a cut of what - I'm attending for the benefit of affiliates and players - nothing more, nothing less.
... Oh, except maybe a beer or two with the Meister's Drunken Crew!

KK

 

[jetset]

I think it's a pity that this legitimate discussion has been temporarily derailed by an examination of the partying habits of affiliates attending conferences, because that is irrelevant in my opinion.

The discussion as I see it here is not one of 'affiliate politics', but is one that is primarily concerned with:

1) Was there an intentional deception in not disclosing that the notorious CAP would continue to profit from this conference, regardless of assurances that it would be 100 percent independent, and

2) Should affiliates be outraged by such a deception (or indeed do they believe or care there was a deception at all). And if they do accept that this was the case is it the right thing to do to attend/support the event, on the precept that if affiliates attend so, too will the sponsors and businesses who provide iGB and CAP with their profits.

Speaking personally, I have little doubt that there was an intentional deception, but that the confirmation that this was the case has perhaps come too late to have a real impact.

Many affiliates had already made their arrangements, or perhaps in any case have no qualms about attending, and it is clear that affiliates will be flocking to the conference, bringing with them all the support businesses that are the foundation for the profits therefrom.

I don't think affiliates should necessarily be 'morally' condemned for this; it is an individual business decision and a personal judgement call that has not been made easier by the late disclosure of the division of profits.

What a shame that early in 2009 a largely untainted outfit like the GPWA did not combine with iGB to present a conference that was truly independent of CAP, but there again one has to remember that iGB and CAP had a contractual relationship which may have complicated such a development.

Long story short, the truth did out on this one....but too late to have any material impact.

The question now is, what will happen next year? Will CAP still be able to profit from an affiliate conference or will there be a competitive offer that affiliates can support with a clear conscience?

 

[Webzcas]

[Derail]

The only partying I'll probably be doing is at the Meister Meeting - which is my party for our members.

I recommend this event. Although last year I was a bit worse for wear!

Greedy Girl managed to get a picture of me, Spearmaster, Pat H and Graham from 32red. It is quite clear I was 9 sheets to the wind then.

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[/Derail]

 

[greedygirl]

Greedy Girl managed to get a picture of me, Spearmaster, Pat H and Graham from 32red. It is quite clear I was 9 sheets to the wind then.

Ha! We all learned two important lesson that evening...

...cut Webzcas off at the 9th sheet (10 sheets is far more than he can tolerate) and also be sure to arm Webz with some sort of microchip (just in case he gets separated from the group)!

 

[Webzcas]

I'd never get drunk until I'd eaten well and done some shopping. Does that answer your question?

And why do you think this year should be any different than previous years. It's London! Of course we're going to drink!

You have no option now. I'm staying in the same hotel LOL

 

[spearmaster]

[Derail]



I recommend this event. Although last year I was a bit worse for wear!

Greedy Girl managed to get a picture of me, Spearmaster, Pat H and Graham from 32red. It is quite clear I was 9 sheets to the wind then.

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[/Derail]

Bloody hell, look at the size of my stomach!

That's gone now...

 

[mojo]

I have asked max to remove my membership. It's best because I will never get it and the way the whole thing plays out to me is not what I want to be part of due to CAP.

 

[GamTrak]

Now that mojo has been chastized. Where is the outrage towards Alex for 'misleading' everyone? We all got PLAYED (so much for you doing your research) and you guys lash out at mojo?

WTF???? Just some more crap for the crockpot IMO! Atleast jetset is on the right path!

 

[GamTrak]

I have asked max to remove my membership. It's best because I will never get it and the way the whole thing plays out to me is not what I want to be part of due to CAP.

They could careless about anyone but themselves and pushing their agenda, but I'll be here to state my view on this bull$hit when I see it! That's for sure!

What are you gonna do 'catagorize' me as a rogue affiliate! Oh wait! That's been done already! BIG MISTAKE!