IMPORTANT - CAP Euro Event Changes

[jetset]

Clearly the income flowing from this sort of event is considerable, even after the probably expensive overhead has been paid, and the affiliates attending have been feted.

I understand that it's free for affiliates, thanks to the generosity of sponsors and the income from exhibiting and promotional activity charges?

CAP and iGB are on to a good thing here, it would appear, but that ten months of deception still rankles for me.

 

[RobWin]

Clearly the income flowing from this sort of event is considerable, even after the probably expensive overhead has been paid, and the affiliates attending have been feted.

I understand that it's free for affiliates, thanks to the generosity of sponsors and the income from exhibiting and promotional activity charges?

CAP and iGB are on to a good thing here, it would appear, but that ten months of deception still rankles for me.

Exactly Jetset, and that was my whole point of reviving this 10 month old thread. Just seems to me that that could have been made clear a long time ago when both you and I asked Alex that question previously. Most likely it would still not be clear had the thread started by Mojo at the GPWA not been made!

Hi all,

Please see below some PR on the CAP events that will be going out today - Don't worry the changes are all 100% positive in that everything that was great about the events will be retained but admission will be easier for all affiliates and their will be a name change so the event will be 100% independent.

I now also believe that that original statement by Alex in his first post here and in Red above was also a bit misleading as well.

____
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[Webzcas]

I now also believe that that original statement by Alex in his first post here and in Red above was also a bit misleading as well.

You are spot on there Rob. Indeed I would go on to say it was INTENTIONALLY misleading.

That said, my hotels are booked and I will still be attending. But this will be the last event I will attend that has CAP's involvement. I am sure many also feel the same.

I intend to use my time there meeting with fellow affiliates and programs.

 

[jetset]

Four things persuade me that use of the word 'intentional' is not unjustified here:

1) The early posts in this thread (check them out for yourselves) where the question of financial consideration on the conferences deal is not-so-adroitly side-stepped repeatedly, when both parties had entered into a profit sharing agreement previously and knew it.

2) Pinababy's succinct summary of the GPWA discussions, included in this thread, which outlines the sequence of events leading to the sudden disclosures by iGB and CAP (despite previous excuses of contract confidentiality).

3) The 'coincidence' of both iGB and CAP representatives spilling the beans in the wake of the JTodd disclosures and subsequent events at the GPWA.

4) Perhaps most of all, Warren Jolly's recent statement at GPWA which to my mind virtually admits this subterfuge. Specifically:

Quote:

"In early 2009, due to our own internal challenges & restructuring, a decision was made to distance the [conference] events and magazines from CAP.

and

"A decision was also made to re-brand the conferences, which remains in effect today.

"From a financial perspective CAP is still a beneficiary - we co-founded the conferences, attracted the affiliates/operators, and rightfully deserved to continue to benefit financially from these events."

Unquote

 

[jetset]

Sorry - 5 points now persuade me that there was a deliberate deception, thanks to RobWin's eagle eye above:

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexpratt
Hi all,

Please see below some PR on the CAP events that will be going out today - Don't worry the changes are all 100% positive in that everything that was great about the events will be retained but admission will be easier for all affiliates and their will be a name change so the event will be 100% independent.
Unquote

 

[Webzcas]

I think Alex has been caught between a rock and hard place here, what with being an employee and having contractual and confidential obligations to adhere to. So I would not lay the blame at his feet.

Also those who are attending London, should still do so IMO. There is no point cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I am not going to support Affiliate Media. But I am going for the first time ever in it's entirety to catch up with peers, friends and affiliate managers.

The same goes for all others who have already made arrangements to attend. By pulling out now, would only have an adverse affect on the affiliates who pull out in light of this confirmation of CAP's continued involvement.

 

[jetset]

CAP is perhaps fortunate that Alex is so highly regarded by many opinion formers in the affiliate industry - it's certainly helped to pull them all through this deception.

 

[mojo]

CAP is perhaps fortunate that Alex is so highly regarded by many opinion formers in the affiliate industry - it's certainly helped to pull them all through this deception.

Agreed. We certainly have a fantastic front man. Not his fault we are lied to. However, Robwin brought up this thread that in fact, people LIE.

I have edited this 3 times because it's not proper to call people out. Fk that. Folks LIED to us. Warren LIES. Thanks webz for at least being honest that you paid for your tiks and going. Nothing wrong with that.

I am unbelievably hurt that the rest of us affys aren't so honest.

The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men

Plato (429347 B.C.E.) Ancient Greek Philosopher

 

[mojo]

Testimonial.

I don't know why but every year it seems like I am at least once drunk and wondering the streets with Meister and the crew trying to find a party..lol Last year we gave up after wandering around forever ate McDonald's in Piccadilly Square and I think it was right by the party we were looking for but we were too drunk to see it..lol It was all Debbs fault I think...hahaha Needless to say I feel very safe in London, I love that city!!

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WTF is wrong with this pic?? Are we really supposed to accept that you guys represent Affiliates?

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

 

[mojo]

Ok ok but I think I may have to find a sponsor this time since everyone assumed it was sponsored in Budapest and the drink bill was very high, thanks to all those that chipped in to help pay that!

Drinks on us small affiliates. What a GREAT TIME! Thanks for picking up the tab WARREN!

Warren is laughing at us affiliates all the way to the bank.

 

[spearmaster]

Sorry Mojo, I think you're out of order here. It isn't against the rules to have a good time while attending a conference. Nor did this take place at the conference itself.

Testimonial.




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WTF is wrong with this pic?? Are we really supposed to accept that you guys represent Affiliates?

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

 

[mojo]

Sorry Mojo, I think you're out of order here. It isn't against the rules to have a good time while attending a conference. Nor did this take place at the conference itself.

You are kidding right?

 

[spearmaster]

You are kidding right?

No I'm not kidding.

As long as they represent themselves professionally at the conference and in meeting with operators and affiliate managers, there is no reason why they can't have a good time and even get drunk when on their own time.

 

[maxd]

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

I'd never get drunk until I'd eaten well and done some shopping. Does that answer your question?

And why do you think this year should be any different than previous years. It's London! Of course we're going to drink!

Oh yea, there's also the hours and hours of meetings and discussions, the meet-and-greets, the networking and then the networking and then some networking, etc etc. After all that you can bet your frilly knickers that we're going to get into our cups a bit, at the appropriate times and places of course.

 

[greedygirl]

Testimonial.




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WTF is wrong with this pic?? Are we really supposed to accept that you guys represent Affiliates?

Are you going to London this year to get drunk?

This just gets under my skin.

Mojo--I get it that you're angry about the connection to CAP with the conferences, but to go on and start attacking attendees is something that just oversteps the point. And to have to post it at GPWA AND here (and gawd knows where else)...a little over the top???

For MANY of us in this business, we work from home. Conferences are not only a place to do business, but also a place to celebrate some truly wonderful friendships we've created through the years.

I'll be celebrating my tenth year in this business, this year. I've been on both sides of the industry--the casino side and the publishing side. I've been to more conferences and events than I can count and I've probably had one too many hangovers, to be sure. The bottom line is that for every conference and event that I've been to, I've done my work and did it well. No employer in their right mind would invest the sort of money it takes to fly me to all corners of the world and pay my hotel and expenses, if I didn't give a great return on investment.

Further, for those affiliates who are digging into their own pockets to attend, it's a huge chunk of change. Clearly, they are there to do business. SO WHAT if they want to go out and knock a few back???? The good news is that they're adults and can make their own decisions to do as they please.

I just don't get where you're coming from with this.

 

[Casinomeister]

It's funny how I'm getting a hell of a lot of flack and snippy comments about this whole CAP thing - and I haven't done anything nor am I involved with CAP.

For instance - Mojo decides to point out my name in bolded red as if I'm some wasto drunk crawling around the streets of soho:

I don't know why but every year it seems like I am at least once drunk and wondering the streets with Meister and the crew trying to find a party..lol Last year we gave up after wandering around forever ate McDonald's in Piccadilly Square and I think it was right by the party we were looking for but we were too drunk to see it..lol It was all Debbs fault I think...hahaha Needless to say I feel very safe in London, I love that city!!

Well guess what? I don't have a crew. I just happened to be hanging out with a couple of friends and others who joined us. And I remember it clearly - McDonalds at Leicester Square at 1 (or so) in the morning. It was the worst burger I have ever had in recent memory. No one, including myself was drunk - at all. We had unsuccessfully searched for the Maya Bar that others had gone to and spent a couple of hours wandering around looking for it. There was nothing obnoxious about it. Funny how this crap gets all blown out of proportion.

And how about going to the source?? - published in our newsletter here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/newsletters/

Scroll down to CAP Awards

What really pisses me off is that I'm getting beat up over this whole issue and a number of false and malicious statements are being made about my involvement with the LAC. I am only going to be at the discussion panel that I organized and set up to moderate. That's it. From there I'll probably be headed out to catch a film or two since that's my last day in London.

The only partying I'll probably be doing is at the Meister Meeting - which is my party for our members. So Mojo, I hope you don't mind if I have a couple of beers there.

If in fact, if this has been a deliberate deception, this will be the only LAC or CAP connected events I'll be attending. Again, I feel that player issues trump whatever affiliate politics are taking place here. I'm really surprised that a number of people don't understand this.

If it wasn't for my panel discussion, I wouldn't be there.

 

[KasinoKing]

Also those who are attending London, should still do so IMO. There is no point cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I am not going to support Affiliate Media. But I am going for the first time ever in it's entirety to catch up with peers, friends and affiliate managers.

Same here. These are the only events where I can get out and actually meet people I deal with on the net face-to-face.
Otherwise I'd just be sitting here in my hovel of an office slowly turning into a grumpy old hermit!

Personally I'm not interested in the politics behind the event, or who is getting a cut of what - I'm attending for the benefit of affiliates and players - nothing more, nothing less.
... Oh, except maybe a beer or two with the Meister's Drunken Crew!

KK

 

[jetset]

I think it's a pity that this legitimate discussion has been temporarily derailed by an examination of the partying habits of affiliates attending conferences, because that is irrelevant in my opinion.

The discussion as I see it here is not one of 'affiliate politics', but is one that is primarily concerned with:

1) Was there an intentional deception in not disclosing that the notorious CAP would continue to profit from this conference, regardless of assurances that it would be 100 percent independent, and

2) Should affiliates be outraged by such a deception (or indeed do they believe or care there was a deception at all). And if they do accept that this was the case is it the right thing to do to attend/support the event, on the precept that if affiliates attend so, too will the sponsors and businesses who provide iGB and CAP with their profits.

Speaking personally, I have little doubt that there was an intentional deception, but that the confirmation that this was the case has perhaps come too late to have a real impact.

Many affiliates had already made their arrangements, or perhaps in any case have no qualms about attending, and it is clear that affiliates will be flocking to the conference, bringing with them all the support businesses that are the foundation for the profits therefrom.

I don't think affiliates should necessarily be 'morally' condemned for this; it is an individual business decision and a personal judgement call that has not been made easier by the late disclosure of the division of profits.

What a shame that early in 2009 a largely untainted outfit like the GPWA did not combine with iGB to present a conference that was truly independent of CAP, but there again one has to remember that iGB and CAP had a contractual relationship which may have complicated such a development.

Long story short, the truth did out on this one....but too late to have any material impact.

The question now is, what will happen next year? Will CAP still be able to profit from an affiliate conference or will there be a competitive offer that affiliates can support with a clear conscience?

 

[Webzcas]

[Derail]

The only partying I'll probably be doing is at the Meister Meeting - which is my party for our members.

I recommend this event. Although last year I was a bit worse for wear!

Greedy Girl managed to get a picture of me, Spearmaster, Pat H and Graham from 32red. It is quite clear I was 9 sheets to the wind then.

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[/Derail]

 

[greedygirl]

Greedy Girl managed to get a picture of me, Spearmaster, Pat H and Graham from 32red. It is quite clear I was 9 sheets to the wind then.

Ha! We all learned two important lesson that evening...

...cut Webzcas off at the 9th sheet (10 sheets is far more than he can tolerate) and also be sure to arm Webz with some sort of microchip (just in case he gets separated from the group)!

 

[Webzcas]

I'd never get drunk until I'd eaten well and done some shopping. Does that answer your question?

And why do you think this year should be any different than previous years. It's London! Of course we're going to drink!

You have no option now. I'm staying in the same hotel LOL

 

[spearmaster]

[Derail]



I recommend this event. Although last year I was a bit worse for wear!

Greedy Girl managed to get a picture of me, Spearmaster, Pat H and Graham from 32red. It is quite clear I was 9 sheets to the wind then.

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[/Derail]

Bloody hell, look at the size of my stomach!

That's gone now...

 

[mojo]

I have asked max to remove my membership. It's best because I will never get it and the way the whole thing plays out to me is not what I want to be part of due to CAP.

 

[GamTrak]

Now that mojo has been chastized. Where is the outrage towards Alex for 'misleading' everyone? We all got PLAYED (so much for you doing your research) and you guys lash out at mojo?

WTF???? Just some more crap for the crockpot IMO! Atleast jetset is on the right path!

 

[GamTrak]

I have asked max to remove my membership. It's best because I will never get it and the way the whole thing plays out to me is not what I want to be part of due to CAP.

They could careless about anyone but themselves and pushing their agenda, but I'll be here to state my view on this bull$hit when I see it! That's for sure!

What are you gonna do 'catagorize' me as a rogue affiliate! Oh wait! That's been done already! BIG MISTAKE!