Bonus Complaint I wish I never received that sneaky bonus - $10,000 win confiscated

djkice

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 13, 2013
Location
Perth, Australia
Hi Everyone,

Sad that this is my second post and has to be negative. I have been a lurker for some time, mainly only going to the local casino regularly but have been thinking about doing it online for some time seeings it should provide a better chance compared to american roulette offered by local casino. I tend to spend a few hundred a week but mostly lose as you do.

So decided to finally give it a whirl after reading up on various casinos. Short of money due to my payroll being fortnightly I decided to use the very last $50 in my account for entertainment.

Was so excited to get started that I quickly filled out the forms, deposited some money and was ready to roll in the software within a few minutes. In the roulette tables immediately started putting some bets down. won some/lost some as you do. After a few I noticed my balance being over 100$ even though I deposited only 50. I didn't think that I won this amount so assumed maybe it was a join up bonus. More on this later.

So after several rolls. I thought my luck had run out and since I was up few hundred which is a rare. Decided to cash out. Now when I tried to do this realise that there was a requirement with the bonus to play more. I was very worried that I would lose this money now because I had such luck already. To my surprise I kept winning.

After playing over 3 days, I managed to be up a massive $10,000. I was jumping with joy and planning my spending with this win. As everyone else I have credit cards, loans etc. I even planned to play few hundred per week as a regular basis at this online casino.

Last night realized that I had 100$ on my account which was weird. I thought maybe its a bonus for getting a new teir or something. So I just left it to play with for the weekend. This was followed by a email a few hours later. I tried to get a more concrete answer as to why this occurred but the only this same r response which is pretty much just a copy and paste of a term which is listed in T&C. Could someone perhaps have a look at my play log and let me know where/if I actually was in the wrong? "Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings."

I feel as if I broke terms that I have no idea why they are logically terms, nor was I advised of the issue when it apparently occurred, they actually let me continue to play additional days and now they wont even let me know how I specifically did it. Being new to this instead of helping me address the problem when it occurred, they just decided to void my legitimately gained winnings while I am just expected to accept it because it is in the terms? I can understand they need some terms to protect their business however If I am in the wrong I just really wish someone notified me earlier so I could opt out of the bonus, or if I was doing something wrong on first day to rectify it/issue warning. Maybe this should be restricted in software or have a notice that pops up or friendly reminder somehow when bonus applied to account so you cant break the terms?
Had I a choice or knew about the conditions of course you would opt out of having any bonus with such terms. I am not even sure if it was the bonus-play through requirements or if they think I had irregular playing patterns.

I haven't named this casino just yet, only because it has only been 24 hours since I contacted via this forum. Not sure what the acceptable time for this is before I should post it up.

I am sure I am in the same boat as many others, as I have read quite a few of these. Sadly I didn't notice this part of the forum earlier, I would have been more aware and I wouldn't be experiencing this problem now. Sorry to express my feelings, you probably have read this a million times over but it is nice to express it and I am sure many can relate!

Thanks for reading

Chris
 
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mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
I haven't named this casino just yet, only because it has only been 24 hours since I contacted via this forum. Not sure what the acceptable time for this is before I should post it up.

Hello Chris :) What casino was this? I'm sure many members would be able to provide a more precise answer based on the casino and T&Cs.
 

Borgie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
MM
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
To help we really need to see the full Terms and Conditions of the Bonus and also it would help us if you named the Casino .

[
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
I haven't named this casino just yet, only because it has only been 24 hours since I contacted via this forum. Not sure what the acceptable time for this is before I should post it up.

Chris

Well, if they're a rep, your first step should be to contact them via the i-gaming rep tab above; give them a chance to sort it with you
Next, if you were wrong and willing to move on, no harm in mentioning the casino here for feedback
If you feel you weren't in the wrong, file a PAB (Pitch-A-Bitch..it's for casino grievances with merit)..if you do this, read the FAQs carefully.

All in all, as Mark said, no harm in mentioning the casino. Slagging them gets nobody anywhere...but discussing the merits of your case could get some pretty good advice
 

djkice

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 13, 2013
Location
Perth, Australia
Casino

Spin Palace

I appreciate everyone's friendly attitude and willingness to help.

I would really appreciate any advice which you could give so I know where I stand :)

Edit: They asked me for proof of ID details for winnings, which I provided and complied with.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
you can find the Spin Palace rep here > https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
PM him to see if you can find out the issues if any. You could direct him to this thread as well > Link Outdated / Removed

If you're in the wrong, so be it. If you feel otherwise, file a PAB.
It would help to know what the terms were and what you (apparently) did wrong
 

djkice

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 13, 2013
Location
Perth, Australia
Thanks for that. I have contacted the rep and pretty much stated what is in the contents of the post pretty much. Still awaiting reply. Only difference in the I express my story rather than a detailed summary of events :p

Would it be able to be determined if I did wrong if I posted some of the play log ?
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
5a) Play at certain games will contribute a different percentage of the playthrough requirement:
• 100% - all Slots and all Parlor Games
• 8% - all Table Pokers, all Roulettes, all Video/Power Pokers (except All Aces and Jacks or Better), all Blackjacks (except Classic Blackjack) and Casino War
• 0% (excluded games) - Classic Blackjack, all Aces Video/Power Pokers, Jacks or Better Video/Power Pokers, all Baccarats, all Craps, Red Dog, Sic Bo

13. Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings.

First thing I thought was maybe not allowed to play roulette with a SUB, but it looks like you can (although wagering is ridiculous!)

I have a feeling it's term unlucky 13....if it was a 100% SUB ($50) then you're not allowed to bet more than $15, were any of your bets higher than that?
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Well, it sounds like you were not aware of the term because you didn't read any of them in the first place (by what you said).

You received a 100% bonus of $50.

Did you place ANY bets of more than $15? If yes, then you broke the rules and you will (quite rightly) lose your winnings. If no, then you need to make sure the casino tells you exactly what the issue is.

You've been a lurker for some time, so IMO you cannot use the "I'm new to online casinos" excuse. Anyone reading these forums for a few days would know about bonus terms and what they can entail.

Unfortunately, it appears to be (yet another) case of a player just taking a bonus and playing without bothering to read the associated terms.
 

djkice

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 13, 2013
Location
Perth, Australia
Had a look at my log, I was betting about $1-12 for about 20ish spins.

I started getting bad luck so went to $48 bets at a time. lost 3 times and went below 50$. Then put all on table and got back $144 on straight up

I honestly have not come across the section before, didn't think much of it sadly :(
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Had a look at my log, I was betting about $1-12 for about 20ish spins.

I started getting bad luck so went to $48 bets at a time. lost 3 times and went below 50$. Then put all on table and got back $144 on straight up

I honestly have not come across the section before, didn't think much of it sadly :(

Unfortunately, you did breach the terms in a major way.

Please take it as a lesson learned and read the terms before you play.
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
Had a look at my log, I was betting about $1-12 for about 20ish spins.

I started getting bad luck so went to $48 bets at a time. lost 3 times and went below 50$. Then put all on table and got back $144 on straight up

I honestly have not come across the section before, didn't think much of it sadly :(

I think that's what got you right there.

You said though that they put $100 in your account? So they voided your winnings and gave you your deposit and the bonus back...?

At least you can try again, but if I were you, I'd burn up that bonus playing slots instead. It's bad enough to have a 40x wagering, but if roulette only counts 8% that's like having a 500x wagering! $2,000 on slots vs $25,000 on roulette...? Is that right? Math isn't my strong suit.
 
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djkice

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 13, 2013
Location
Perth, Australia
Thanks for help and feedback all.

Yeah it does seem rough, might have to try slots next time.

The Palace Group have made contact with me and will review this for me.
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
Fortunately The Palace Group are generally regarded as reputable and are accredited here. As a consequence, at least you will get a fair hearing and punctual responses. Hope it turns out OK.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
Thanks for the positive response Slotster! Always good to hear.

While Nifty is quite correct in that it does appear you breached the T&C's, I do feel for you. I will personally admit I have never until recently really examined the minutiae of casino terms when I join, as my style of play (slots only and low stakes) would seldom be an issue in even the most tightest of bonuses, unless if successful I later realized there was a cashout limit on winnings achieve when a bonus is in play.

Had you played 1-12$ bets until you had CLEARED the 1500$ SUB WR I believe you'd have been alright as then the bonus would have joined your cash balance and been free of limits. :mad:

Well, it seems you have another chance as they have restored the account to the starting point for you. It's a shame you had to learn the hard way, but good luck on the next try.:)
 

bsilva028

Banned : multi-account fraudster
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Location
portugal
its BS had the winnings and dont be able to withdraw them because of 1 term, but, yes was broke...

now they put you back the original bonus and deposite to try again..

like some members said, try to play in slots and do not made any wager above $15 to dont broke the rules again
 

albrco123

"Wish i could Re-" Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Location
US
Sounds very similar to a couple of recent Lucky Nugget threads, received bonus, played roulette at or over 30% of bonus and had winnings confiscated, unfortunately it is in their T&C's

However......

The way i read the accredited casino T&C these MG casino's are very close the edge to if not breaking at least 3 of them, of course this is only the way i am interpreting them, others could have a different view.

•Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations. - they have an "Irregular Play" clause which is not very specific at all.•Must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player. - sounds like Spin Palace are implementing an unfair "Irregular Play" term
•No player shall be involuntarily placed into a situation which breaches the terms and conditions during the course of play. - "Player should not be physically able to place bets over 30% on roulette if that will cause a breach of T&C, very easy to code into software

Al
 

Balthazar

The Governor
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
Woodbury
lost 3 times and went below 50$. Then put all on table and got back $144 on straight up

So you actually touched the bonus money and used it to win. Your thread title and opening post are confusing because you make it sounds like you didn't want the bonus and it just appeared there. Since you used the bonus to win and made oversize bets with it, I'm afraid that you have no case here. Without the bonus, you'd have busted early.
 

djkice

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 13, 2013
Location
Perth, Australia
Thanks for your input Balthazar however I checked again and I made a mistake.

I never read one of these logs before for the first time I must have made mistake. Seems like it wasn't actually loss but the deduction for the actual bet.

-4800 4500
14400 18900

I think that means I actually had $93 before the bet and got back up to $189?
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
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the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
Thanks for your input Balthazar however I checked again and I made a mistake.

I never read one of these logs before for the first time I must have made mistake. Seems like it wasn't actually loss but the deduction for the actual bet.

-4800 4500
14400 18900

I think that means I actually had $93 before the bet and got back up to $189?

MG software is quite well programmed and consistent when it comes to bonus play, and if it flags something it will usually be correct. The accounting system they use will be set with whatever terms and conditions and limits the bonus has and will automatically flag any breaches, or not allow incorrectly played bonuses to revert to cash. It has done so in your case, and when the CS looks into I'm sure they will identify which part of the play log your error is in.
 

MisterBJ

Account suspended until further notice - please co
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Location
Atlanta
I personally avoid casinos with those max bet clause. Sometimes I go on tilt why playing bj, and bet my whole bank roll of $1 (one dollar).
 

albrco123

"Wish i could Re-" Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Location
US
I personally avoid casinos with those max bet clause. Sometimes I go on tilt why playing bj, and bet my whole bank roll of $1 (one dollar).

Besides what is irregular about a player increasing their bet size when on a winning streak, i would have thought this was a very regular play style?, the very essence of gambling!

Al
 

djkice

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
May 13, 2013
Location
Perth, Australia
MG software is quite well programmed and consistent when it comes to bonus play, and if it flags something it will usually be correct. The accounting system they use will be set with whatever terms and conditions and limits the bonus has and will automatically flag any breaches, or not allow incorrectly played bonuses to revert to cash. It has done so in your case, and when the CS looks into I'm sure they will identify which part of the play log your error is in.

If it has the capability of flagging this, why doesn't it have a warning message come up to warn player or not allow them to break the terms in first place. Having the bet restriction. It clearly has the capability of detecting when you have no more funds to place on table. I'm sure it can simply tell you that your not allow to bet this much and take the additional chips off the table :/

I wish I knew the first day this happened so I could rectify and start fresh not 5 days later.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
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Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
If it has the capability of flagging this, why doesn't it have a warning message come up to warn player or not allow them to break the terms in first place. Having the bet restriction. It clearly has the capability of detecting when you have no more funds to place on table. I'm sure it can simply tell you that your not allow to bet this much and take the additional chips off the table :/

Yes, but the thing is their system doesn't know if you are intending to do this to rid yourself of the bonus and original deposit ready to start again cash-only.

I do however believe that the system could flag such a stake IF your WR had not been met yet and you had thus not correctly turned the bonus into unrestricted cash balance/stakes.

Then again, why would they do this - not doing so has just saved them from paying you 10k, along with your ignorance of the full T&C's.
 
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