How many people here truly believe slots to be random?

[trancemonkey]

All a bit black & white with you isn't it? I didn't call you a liar, I said I didn't know you

On the forum, it is opinions, and people can choose to believe/ accept them or not.

But by all means, carry on

Sorry.. Didn't mean to come across arsey... But what I'm trying to say is that if you disagree with me, when doing this is my job, then you must think I'm lying about it. You are of course entitled to think that, and that is your opinion.

 

[lockinlove]

A lot do the same - one of our faves included, namely "Immortal Romance"

I am sad enough to know the reel layout either side of the scatters on reels 3-5 and reel 5 is a bugger for showing then disappearing.

Even though we all know it is just eye candy, agreed frustrating as hell

I actually dont watch IR very close when I play it because I cannot stand all the 2 scatter teases. Its one of the slots I put on auto and then read email or do whatever and flip back and forth to see if a wild desire is coming or hit a bonus.

 

[trancemonkey]

Nope, Personal opinion that 'random' is a very poor choice of words.

I'm not willing to take on an argument / discussion, debate, call it what you will that no matter what I say or how I present my feelings I will not get the point across, nothing personal either, I mean in general.

Forums are so hard in some cases (this been a prime example) of getting a true point across. To discuss something over a pint (before numerous are consumed) would make my point so much easier to understand and some may even somewhat begin to agree with me.

Sadly that day will never arrive, hence my stance on not willing to go in deep on this one

I agree wholeheartedly that the term random may be misleading... They are random, and at the start of every game every outcome is possible... That's the important and legal part of what we do. However as you are well aware there are many many different ways of making random games and these can lead to very different personalities within games.

Don't get me wrong I understand why people have the opinions they do... I completely empathise.

I would love to meet up with some of you and explain this in more detail (without going in to details that will get me sacked of course)

 

[goatwack]

BeanParpington's gonna get it

 

[aceking123]

well again the so called random events i cannot believe when it comes to slots. like many old school players i've seen enough to suggest the opposite , this isnt about losing loads of cash more to do with fair play.

As providers it's just pretty blatant with the new line of slots pretty much produced these days, these games are getting worst & worst , i cannot think of the frequent hitting of scatters of pairs , it would be one in five chance of hitting the third nowadays its one in 25 thats shocking & it doesnt mean to say its going to pay anymore , im seeing a heavy reduced pays in main base game , not enough to keep you going.

Tried a bally slot to today i'm aware again is high variance , again 383 spins no feature again well beyond normal considering the reel make up , again even chance no less than ten chances of hitting three scatters , but again nope , i'm still unsure that you providers are taking in the bullshit to what we as players see.

Im not being rude in anyway to you , but like you say you're making these slots then produce a evenly fair game , since when should a player go hundreds & hundreds of spins for 5 x stake ???? this is now common as hell , i can state ten years plus ago you would not see such results on such a frequent level , other problem is any tom,dick or harry can open a casino up , so two things stick out its either you guys making the games have tightened them up or there is just too many casinos flooding the market for a good even game.

does every casino have a single server for their casino ??? or is it all under one roof ????

 

[Jono777]

Sorry another "bee in my bonnet"

Lets say I totally change stance and agree "Yes slots are random" and "Yes, I believe nothing has changed in last few years regarding alteration of the older slots and their RTP / models etc etc"

Can anyone kindly explain (as others have rightly spotted over last couple of years) how the same deposit values (never changed my amounts really give or take a fiver in 14 years!) are gone a lot quicker than "The good old days"

Yes we'd have those sessions where its blink and bust and then fast winnings days but the good old fashioned value for money, deposit lasts till your bored which were actually quite common are few and far between now!

 

[goatwack]

Sorry another "bee in my bonnet"

Lets say I totally change stance and agree "Yes slots are random" and "Yes, I believe nothing has changed in last few years regarding alteration of the older slots and their RTP / models etc etc"

Can anyone kindly explain (as others have rightly spotted over last couple of years) how the same deposit values (never changed my amounts really give or take a fiver in 14 years!) are gone a lot quicker than "The good old days"

Yes we'd have those sessions where its blink and bust and then fast winnings days but the good old fashioned value for money, deposit lasts till your bored which were actually quite common are few and far between now!

Maybe it's a cunning ruse by developers to get us to ditch the older, much- loved and better paying slots in favour of the newer money- grabbing shite.

I'll give everyone a minute to absorb that bit of tinfoil

 

[lockinlove]

does every casino have a single server for their casino ??? or is it all under one roof ????

Thats what I want to know. Because when I see someone hit big on bonanza on videoslots I dont play the game for awhile cause its unlikely to do it again soon imo.

Plus I asked big time gaming and he said something to me like if you are losing someone else is winning. Then speaking to VS support the guy told me someone hit big on danger high voltage in that time frame and thats why my rtp was 34.7% after a few hundred spins. Well 700 spins over 2 sessions.

 

[brianmon]

talking of scatters.. There's a figure for the average hit frequency of a feature (free spins, bonus or whatever), I believe it's between 150-200 spins on a lot of games.

But it seems that these days. On opening a game, this average has now become an absolute minimum number of spins. Usually taking 300-500 spins, from opening a game.
Ok,once you finally achieve your first feature, the second one can occur fairly quickly, which can sometimes compensate a little.

It's like there's some mechanism preventing a feature happening too soon after opening a game, and only happening once you've lost enough money to cover a feature's payout.


On the very rare occasion a feature occurs within, say, the first 50 spins. You can almost guarantee that you'll be waiting 500+ spins for the next one, compensating for the early feature.

Obviously I don't expect a feature to always occur within the average number of spins. But like I say, 99% of the time, from opening a game, this average figure, becomes a minimum figure.

 

[greylady]

I can accept games will become cold if someone wins, it's logic and makes sense to me but what I don't get, if slots are so random, how you can play the same slot almost every day for about four weeks and the rtp stays consistent, for me that was 30%! I moved onto a different slot, rtp 30% again over a period of a week, tried another and again it was at 29.88 over a period of a week. Explain that if you please

 

[lockinlove]

talking of scatters.. There's a figure for the average hit frequency of a feature (free spins, bonus or whatever), I believe it's between 150-200 spins on a lot of games.

But it seems that these days. On opening a game, this average has now become an absolute minimum number of spins. Usually taking 300-500 spins, from opening a game.
Ok,once you finally achieve your first feature, the second one can occur fairly quickly, which can sometimes compensate a little.

It's like there's some mechanism preventing a feature happening too soon after opening a game, and only happening once you've lost enough money to cover a feature's payout.


On the very rare occasion a feature occurs within, say, the first 50 spins. You can almost guarantee that you'll be waiting 500+ spins for the next one, compensating for the early feature.

Obviously I don't expect a feature to always occur within the average number of spins. But like I say, 99% of the time, from opening a game, this average figure, becomes a minimum figure.

I have thought and noticed the exact same thing myself. Almost to the point that I want to start my first 50 spins on min bet because I know nothing will happen.

I actually do that for golden ticket. I do my first 5 spins on .20 then raise to my usual stake of $1. It has not failed me yet.

 

[PatrickNess]

How many people here truly believe slots to be random?

Slots are not random (independent and identically distributed outcomes) until proven otherwise. But thank god that's not your question.

A good portion of people with no scientific background (but not only) do firmly believe slots to be unpredictable. Since they don't know what random IID means, they can't say if something is iid or not.

A good portion of gambling addicts do also believe that. Although even if they're provided solid proof a game is not random, many will keep playing it, the addiction being stronger.

Another question is: How many people here truly want you to believe slots are random (even if you don't know what it is)? Well, all affiliates* do. Although ultimately it doesn't make a difference to them.

*and obviously all people who work in the industry, from the CS agent to the game developer, artists, webmasters, licensing, auditors, authorities, payment processors, etc; a s**tload of people.

 

[BrianGhattas]

Thinking of Rigged Tiger and Rigdrasil slots playing like scratch cards has me wondering if they play like the slots in the U.S. that are Class II or III (not sure) as results come from bingo cards. Only difference is that you can see the bingo cards at the locals in Oklahoma but not on these slots at your favourite online casino.

 

[lockinlove]

Thinking of Rigged Tiger and Rigdrasil slots playing like scratch cards has me wondering if they play like the slots in the U.S. that are Class II or III (not sure) as results come from bingo cards. Only difference is that you can see the bingo cards at the locals in Oklahoma but not on these slots at your favourite online casino.

Red Tiger are the worst group of slots ive ever played lol

Two scatter BS tease all the time. Near impossible to get a feature unless you spins billions and shitty max base game wins.

I really wish videoslots chose other games for those freespins they give out sometimes.

 

[Igor82]

After playing slots for many years I 100% believe there is no way they are random!

Hey, I've come back a bit on another thread so now I'm hooked on CM again - so I'll chime in, if I may

Here's a simple explanation - you and I will toss a coin. You toss it, your coin. Let's assume that over many many tosses, you'll hit heads about half the time and tails, half the time.

Odds are 50% for tails and 50% for heads. Now, every time you toss, I'll pay you a dollar, for a chance to win my bet back + 90c. I choose heads. Every time you toss and heads do not happen; you will take my dollar.

Let's say you spin this 200,000 times.

100,000 times it comes heads.
100,000 times it comes tails.

Every time it came heads, I took 90c from you + my original bet of 1$ that is returned to me. Every heads outcome, you will take 1 and give me back 1.90.

Every time it came tails, you took 1 dollar from me. I would lose my 1 dollar.

Even though during our 200,000 random bets, there were times where it came heads 20, even 50 times in a row and I was up & winning, there were also times where it came 20, 50 and even 100 times in a row for tails and you were winning. Each outcome was randomly tails or randomly heads. However, in the end - both tails and heads came out an equal number of times. This happened randomly, with each toss.

However, after 200,000 tosses, you took 100,000 dollars from me for every "tails" outcome that I lost. And I in turn, took 90,000 dollars from you for every heads outcome that I won.

In the end, you accepted 200,000 dollars, 1 for each bet, and paid back out 190,000 dollars (100,000 in my winnings bets back + 90,000 in my 90c per bet winnings) for the winnings bets.

For my 200,000 dollars of bets, I returned 190,000 dollars back, losing 10,000. I returned 95% of total bets. "Return to player" aka RTP was 95%

You profited 10,000 dollars from total bets I made. You profited 5% of total bets. Aka, you had 5% house edge

That's how it works. Casinos always pay out slightly lower odds, than the odds of the winning hand happening.

You can take above example on a dice and say that you pay 5 to 1 for every "6" that comes up.

In conclusion: Random works. There is no need to not make it random

 

[Naok777]

While I believe that the win amount on each spin is random I do not believe that what the reels display is random.

In other words:
You hit spin, the game provider sends back a randomly chosen win multiplier from x0 - xwhatever max win is and the game then just displays a random symbol combination that corresponds with it and decorates around it with the usual teases.

That is my tinfoil hat theory to explain how high paying symbols are so common but you rarely win big.

 

[lotusch]

talking of scatters.. There's a figure for the average hit frequency of a feature (free spins, bonus or whatever), I believe it's between 150-200 spins on a lot of games.

But it seems that these days. On opening a game, this average has now become an absolute minimum number of spins. Usually taking 300-500 spins, from opening a game.

This was also one of the reasons I am having my wee slotting break.
Years ago I was nearly sure I would get a feature once every 150 spins (on average), maybe a bit less or more.
Now you easy get swings were it will take you well over 1000 spins to hit a feature.
And a slot can keep that up for thousands of spins.

A slot where this is very very very clear is the 243 line version of GoT, on nearly every online casino I have played this slot it would be more a FS trigger average of once every 400 spins or so.
And as we all know it can leave you with 1x-2x stake in the FS round.
Imagine so many spins to trigger the FS and then getting above result.

On Cleopatra Plus (IGT) fyi trancemonkey, I have spun this slot tens of thousands of times and am down like 5k on it as explained earlier in this thread and I never ever triggered the FS with more than 3 servants!!!! Every time only 3 picks while it can give up to 6 or 7 picks if you get the double/triple servant symbol on the last reel.
That is so bloody damn frustrating and smells like "not so very random" to me.
How can 100+ features always be with the minimum amount of picks???

 

[Igor82]

While I believe that the win amount on each spin is random I do not believe that what the reels display is random.

In other words:
You hit spin, the game provider sends back a randomly chosen win multiplier from x0 - xwhatever max win is and the game then just displays a random symbol combination that corresponds with it and decorates around it with the usual teases.

That is my tinfoil hat theory to explain how high paying symbols are so common but you rarely win big.

It's a very old trick, that, coming from the age of old Vegas.

Reel read left to right commonly, so high paying symbols will be put very frequently on the first real, very frequently on the second, less on third (not much), less yet on fourth and super rarely on the last reel. It gives you that buzzy feeling of possibly winning and missing out on the last few reels.

 

[BeanParpington]

Haha I seem to have started something here...
From reading the comments it seems most of us believe they are not random!
In my experience it just seems obvious that slots have some sort of mechanism at work to ensure you can't win over and over again, hence why when you do win big it's always followed by a massive cold streak.
Also I my experience, any big wins I've had in the past have come when I'm hundreds down on that particular slot...almost as if the slot is forced to bring you back in line with the RTP.

Just my opinion from years of playing, I maybe wrong but it happens to often for them to be random in my eyes

 

[trancemonkey]

While I believe that the win amount on each spin is random I do not believe that what the reels display is random.

In other words:
You hit spin, the game provider sends back a randomly chosen win multiplier from x0 - xwhatever max win is and the game then just displays a random symbol combination that corresponds with it and decorates around it with the usual teases.

That is my tinfoil hat theory to explain how high paying symbols are so common but you rarely win big.

It's purely down to reel band design...

 

[trancemonkey]

Haha I seem to have started something here...
From reading the comments it seems most of us believe they are not random!
In my experience it just seems obvious that slots have some sort of mechanism at work to ensure you can't win over and over again, hence why when you do win big it's always followed by a massive cold streak.
Also I my experience, any big wins I've had in the past have come when I'm hundreds down on that particular slot...almost as if the slot is forced to bring you back in line with the RTP.

Just my opinion from years of playing, I maybe wrong but it happens to often for them to be random in my eyes

But this is because most of you (including me a long time ago) misunderstand random. And also you only remember the bad times... The times where you didn't get a feature for 500 games... Not the times you got it in the first 10 games or even the first one.

Use Slot Tracker is you want to see how these games perform and also if CM ever do a meet up I will try and explain this further.

 

[trancemonkey]

well again the so called random events i cannot believe when it comes to slots. like many old school players i've seen enough to suggest the opposite , this isnt about losing loads of cash more to do with fair play.

As providers it's just pretty blatant with the new line of slots pretty much produced these days, these games are getting worst & worst , i cannot think of the frequent hitting of scatters of pairs , it would be one in five chance of hitting the third nowadays its one in 25 thats shocking & it doesnt mean to say its going to pay anymore , im seeing a heavy reduced pays in main base game , not enough to keep you going.

Tried a bally slot to today i'm aware again is high variance , again 383 spins no feature again well beyond normal considering the reel make up , again even chance no less than ten chances of hitting three scatters , but again nope , i'm still unsure that you providers are taking in the bullshit to what we as players see.

Im not being rude in anyway to you , but like you say you're making these slots then produce a evenly fair game , since when should a player go hundreds & hundreds of spins for 5 x stake ???? this is now common as hell , i can state ten years plus ago you would not see such results on such a frequent level , other problem is any tom,dick or harry can open a casino up , so two things stick out its either you guys making the games have tightened them up or there is just too many casinos flooding the market for a good even game.

does every casino have a single server for their casino ??? or is it all under one roof ????

To answer your points:

383 games is easy on a game even with a 1 in 150 feature average. Imagine throwing a 150 sided dice and hoping it showed you a 1. It could take a lot of throws to get the 1 or it could take a few. That's how volatility works.

With regards to near miss vs feature hit... Reel band design determines this but I for one don't like to tease too often... It has to feel achievable and not like a piss take.

What do you mean be an evenly fair game?

 

[trancemonkey]

Sorry another "bee in my bonnet"

Lets say I totally change stance and agree "Yes slots are random" and "Yes, I believe nothing has changed in last few years regarding alteration of the older slots and their RTP / models etc etc"

Can anyone kindly explain (as others have rightly spotted over last couple of years) how the same deposit values (never changed my amounts really give or take a fiver in 14 years!) are gone a lot quicker than "The good old days"

Yes we'd have those sessions where its blink and bust and then fast winnings days but the good old fashioned value for money, deposit lasts till your bored which were actually quite common are few and far between now!

Well the RTP hasn't really changed over time... I think as I've said before that there are so many providers making games that there is a derth of rubbish on the market and it's harder for the good games to come through.

The only thing that's affects speed of loss is volatility (assuming same RTP and same stake). We as players may be playing more volatile games (we know this is true by the way from the data I see) and staking more. I don't know if the second is true but are you all still playing at the same Stakes as you were 10 years ago?

 

[trancemonkey]

Maybe it's a cunning ruse by developers to get us to ditch the older, much- loved and better paying slots in favour of the newer money- grabbing shite.

I'll give everyone a minute to absorb that bit of tinfoil

But the RTP is the same as the old games..

 

[trancemonkey]

Thats what I want to know. Because when I see someone hit big on bonanza on videoslots I dont play the game for awhile cause its unlikely to do it again soon imo.

Plus I asked big time gaming and he said something to me like if you are losing someone else is winning. Then speaking to VS support the guy told me someone hit big on danger high voltage in that time frame and thats why my rtp was 34.7% after a few hundred spins. Well 700 spins over 2 sessions.

Wtf? That's absolute bollocks and for a casino site to say that... Well no wonder people think games are rigged..

#facepalm

 

[trancemonkey]

Thats what I want to know. Because when I see someone hit big on bonanza on videoslots I dont play the game for awhile cause its unlikely to do it again soon imo.

Plus I asked big time gaming and he said something to me like if you are losing someone else is winning. Then speaking to VS support the guy told me someone hit big on danger high voltage in that time frame and thats why my rtp was 34.7% after a few hundred spins. Well 700 spins over 2 sessions.

Re what big time gaming said... That's true in the case of trying to explain how rtp balances out its not because anything is programmed to do that it's just because that is how random games work...

 

[goatwack]

But the RTP is the same as the old games..

Ahh but is it...

 

[trancemonkey]

Ahh but is it...

Well if you think old games were over 96% like most games are now you would be mistaken.... The first games I did for online were 96% and that was a long time ago

 

[trancemonkey]

I think it's pretty obvious that I can't change some of your minds... I understand that. I'll do my best to explain what I can and then I guess it's up to you whether you trust me or not

 

[Jono777]

Well the RTP hasn't really changed over time... I think as I've said before that there are so many providers making games that there is a derth of rubbish on the market and it's harder for the good games to come through.

The only thing that's affects speed of loss is volatility (assuming same RTP and same stake). We as players may be playing more volatile games (we know this is true by the way from the data I see) and staking more. I don't know if the second is true but are you all still playing at the same Stakes as you were 10 years ago?

yes mate, same games at the same stakes.

I've noticed "stand out sore thumb" changes in both of the Thunderstruck Games, CFTBL to name a few.

Worst of the bunch now is Netent's "Eggomatic" I literally put 10's of thousands of spins through this over the years and there in no way it plays the same now as it did say 12+ months ago.

Its these 'stand out' observations that set me off on these (possibly) paranoid posts, the decline is not even disguised its totally "in your face".

These comments are not based on one or two visits to the game(s) either its after LOTS of sessions.

No accusations as I've said before but experienced observations which raise IMO genuine queries??

 

[aceking123]

I think it's pretty obvious that I can't change some of your minds... I understand that. I'll do my best to explain what I can and then I guess it's up to you whether you trust me or not

well as players who play these games when you guys have finished producing them, we tend to be somewhat perplexed of some game designs outcomes, rtp % & loads of other things including why it takes 500+ spins to hit a feature to pay peanuts.

As your here answering many questions maybe you can answer one for me , could you please give me a game that you have produced , so i can check it out )

 

[lotusch]

I think it's pretty obvious that I can't change some of your minds... I understand that. I'll do my best to explain what I can and then I guess it's up to you whether you trust me or not

And your input is much appreciated man!
It is nice to see someone from "within" the business take all this time and effort to answer all these questions.
And I do think it is hard to convince people once they have a certain thought about how something works.
I am a prime example of that, I admit it first hand.
I struggle with the whole concept of random while wins sometimes are predetermined (like in pick me features).

But you have to understand that many players seem to experience a change in game play, deposits lasting shorter than ever, slots taking the piss by constantly under perform and eat deposits like mad.
I am sure the RTP still works out the way it should be over all these millions of spins divided by all these players that are playing the slots.
I like to play high variance slots so I know these slots can come with endless patches of dead spins and rubbish wins but even these can sometimes take the piss, good example remains Cleo Plus.. I assume this is one of the most volatile slots in the IGT portfolio.

Also fun to mention,when I first started to play online I hit 2x a 1200x stake plus win on Immortal Romance within my first 50 spins or so.
Both on the 10 FS x 5 multiplier with Sarahs and Wilds in my screen.
This was years ago and never have seen them again.

 

[trancemonkey]

well as players who play these games when you guys have finished producing them, we tend to be somewhat perplexed of some game designs outcomes, rtp % & loads of other things including why it takes 500+ spins to hit a feature to pay peanuts.

As your here answering many questions maybe you can answer one for me , could you please give me a game that you have produced , so i can check it out )

Recent ones online are Super Hot Fruits, Fabric 4 (might only be in William Hill still) and Shamrock Lock (Coral, bet365, etc)

 

[trancemonkey]

And your input is much appreciated man!
It is nice to see someone from "within" the business take all this time and effort to answer all these questions.
And I do think it is hard to convince people once they have a certain thought about how something works.
I am a prime example of that, I admit it first hand.
I struggle with the whole concept of random while wins sometimes are predetermined (like in pick me features).

But you have to understand that many players seem to experience a change in game play, deposits lasting shorter than ever, slots taking the piss by constantly under perform and eat deposits like mad.
I am sure the RTP still works out the way it should be over all these millions of spins divided by all these players that are playing the slots.
I like to play high variance slots so I know these slots can come with endless patches of dead spins and rubbish wins but even these can sometimes take the piss, good example remains Cleo Plus.. I assume this is one of the most volatile slots in the IGT portfolio.

Also fun to mention,when I first started to play online I hit 2x a 1200x stake plus win on Immortal Romance within my first 50 spins or so.
Both on the 10 FS x 5 multiplier with Sarahs and Wilds in my screen.
This was years ago and never have seen them again.

I agree... But I've only had 1000x wins rarely... I've had two in one set of free spins on Rhino two months ago...

But then I know how rare they are and how frequent I expect them to come. I've only ever had one double feature (20 free spins) on Bruce Lee and that was about 2 years ago... I don't claim it's not random because I imagine that feature happens every 1 in 100,000 spins at best...

Change is nearly always perception... Some operators may change maths at times but I doubt it's as many as people think....

 

[aceking123]

Recent ones online are Super Hot Fruits, Fabric 4 (might only be in William Hill still) and Shamrock Lock (Coral, bet365, etc)

Hi Thanks )

K 9 games inspired Super hot fruits

OK so let me start with Super hot fruits im knocking you. just my assessment of the game as i've played this 32 times now @laddys this game is poor lack of main base wins unless you've done far too many spins , going into feature base game again shocking results i've only obtained max of 14 spins & the wild middle has only shown once in all these , i take note that it is capped at 50 spins , problem is it does not justify the stakes , as its poor.

Novo does this far to better to compete )

Shamrock again same k9 inspired games

Now ive had little game play on this slot being 4 times only .so cant really tell as of yet what to make of it , i'm aware the first three times to be fair was a even event not many spins played but the fourth was so what better due to hitting the first four columns with shamrock icon , was hoping for more but i think it was only 100x bet £400 quid @£3 quid i think

im thinking this was wonderspin ? ? ? ?

 

[trancemonkey]

Hi Thanks )

K 9 games inspired Super hot fruits

OK so let me start with Super hot fruits im knocking you. just my assessment of the game as i've played this 32 times now @laddys this game is poor lack of main base wins unless you've done far too many spins , going into feature base game again shocking results i've only obtained max of 14 spins & the wild middle has only shown once in all these , i take note that it is capped at 50 spins , problem is it does not justify the stakes , as its poor.

Novo does this far to better to compete )

Shamrock again same k9 inspired games

Now ive had little game play on this slot being 4 times only .so cant really tell as of yet what to make of it , i'm aware the first three times to be fair was a even event not many spins played but the fourth was so what better due to hitting the first four columns with shamrock icon , was hoping for more but i think it was only 100x bet £400 quid @£3 quid i think

im thinking this was wonderspin ? ? ? ?

Yeah so I don't like super hot fruits really but it was done for a non UK market and does well there. It was ported to UK and online.

Shamrock Lock... You should always play with the fortune bet on... The Shamrock Lock symbols for first four reels pays 10x for first two reels, 50x for first three reels, 200x for four and 500x for 5.

Dort forget the multiplier is on the initial stake, not stake including fortune bet.

Do NOT play this in the bookies.. They ruined the game for that version. I only did the online one.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hi Thanks )

K 9 games inspired
im thinking this was wonderspin ? ? ? ?

K9 was my studio until I left last June.

Just another note re: Shamrock Lock... What you had was the Lock 'n' Roll feature where the first 3 4 or 5 reels lock together...

The wonder spin feature is achieved when you get a full reel wild on the middle reel. This gives you one respin with reels 2 and 4 wild and if you get no win from that, you get one with reels 1 3 and 5 wild.

 

[aceking123]

Yeah so I don't like super hot fruits really but it was done for a non UK market and does well there. It was ported to UK and online.

Shamrock Lock... You should always play with the fortune bet on... The Shamrock Lock symbols for first four reels pays 10x for first two reels, 50x for first three reels, 200x for four and 500x for 5.

Dort forget the multiplier is on the initial stake, not stake including fortune bet.

Do NOT play this in the bookies.. They ruined the game for that version. I only did the online one.

ahh that's great to know, i do tend to always play it with fortune bet so i'm heading in right direction

Did you work on centurion , rise of anubis thinking these slots are k9 inspired ???

 

[trancemonkey]

ahh that's great to know, i do tend to always play it with fortune bet so i'm heading in right direction

Did you work on centurion , rise of anubis thinking these slots are k9 inspired ???

Centurion no - that was done before I joined... Rise of Anubis was mainly another producer too.

You get 1.5% more rtp with fortune bet turned on too

 

[Jono777]

This is only a thought / idea and looking for some agreement / disagreement please.

Does anyone think the reason we see less big wins is anything to do with the growth of the industry in recent times?

I mean a much bigger player base, a LOT of new casinos springing up all the time, therefore a much larger "spread" of server results as opposed to "back in the day" when there were fewer of us so we saw the bigger hits more often?

Cheers!

 

[trancemonkey]

This is only a thought / idea and looking for some agreement / disagreement please.

Does anyone think the reason we see less big wins is anything to do with the growth of the industry in recent times?

I mean a much bigger player base, a LOT of new casinos springing up all the time, therefore a much larger "spread" of server results as opposed to "back in the day" when there were fewer of us so we saw the bigger hits more often?

Cheers!

The number of players makes no difference. Every time you press start you have the same change of every result whether there are 1 person or 1 million people playing.

 

[BananaCognac]

Nobody can categorically say they are/are not random - we can only give our opinion from playing history.

Now -- i have been playing predominantly land based over the past 6 months and for those of you familiar with Aristocrat slots/pokies - the Lightning Link
games (around 6 - 8 different themes) - I am of the opinion that bet amounts and hitting the feature are linked.

For Eg: playing max lines (50) at $0.01 a line - so $0.50 a spin. You churn through $20 at a quick rate without getting the feature or even a decent base game hit.

You drop your bet to 30 lines at $0.01 - so $0.30 a spin. And 9/10, without a doubt - you will hit the bonus feature within the next 20 spins.

So I do believe that bet amounts played do play a role in how well you will be rewarded.

 

[trancemonkey]

Nobody can categorically say they are/are not random - we can only give our opinion from playing history.

Now -- i have been playing predominantly land based over the past 6 months and for those of you familiar with Aristocrat slots/pokies - the Lightning Link
games (around 6 - 8 different themes) - I am of the opinion that bet amounts and hitting the feature are linked.

For Eg: playing max lines (50) at $0.01 a line - so $0.50 a spin. You churn through $20 at a quick rate without getting the feature or even a decent base game hit.

You drop your bet to 30 lines at $0.01 - so $0.30 a spin. And 9/10, without a doubt - you will hit the bonus feature within the next 20 spins.

So I do believe that bet amounts played do play a role in how well you will be rewarded.

I know exactly how these games work... I've done a lot of research in to them.... I have one next to my desk and I'm telling you now that's not true However the feature is frequent on this game... Very frequent.

 

[trancemonkey]

Nobody can categorically say they are/are not random - we can only give our opinion from playing history.

I can... It's my job

 

[TNY]

Hi all,
Just wanted to say thank you to Trancemonkey. Its great to have someone with your experience on the forum and appreciate the time you have taken to explain things from your point of view. Information is not always easily accessible and as a player we can often feel "fobbed off" or avoided when asking questions of the industry peeps.
In relation to randomness, 6 - 12 months ago i was loudly singing the chorus that slots have changed. This was on the back of a horrible 12 months of minimal wins/withdrawals, pointless bonus rounds and shortened game time from deposits. Fortunately though, since then my RTP has been quite good and ive been lucky enough to have a few 1000x wins over the last 6 months. I probably deposit a little more than i used to but have been able to get a decent amount of play time from my deposits and often in the position to withdraw or re-coup a reasonable amount of my initial deposits at the close of session. The fact that i actually rarely do this is my own fault and can more appropriately be attributed momentary retardation than anything to do with randomness.
On reflection, i think my game play and activity was also impacting my chances of getting a big win. For a while, i was playing in a lot of battles/tournies where although fun, often soaks up a lot of your play time and because big wins in these formats often doesn't translate into real money, you forget to count them. Well, i did anyway... i think.
One more point i would like to touch on is like a number of other posters i have some concerns regarding the likes of YGGDrasil particularly with the game VGB. Shit, im no expert in the matter but this game really seems to suck people in and makes me wonder about their ethical awareness. This game more than any seems to emphasize a number of features I imagine would be problematic for gamblers with addiction are IMO are pushing the boundaries or fairness in their game design. This is particularly obvious with 'picking bonus round' and the rings around the players that always move at different speeds and although appear to offer a realistic chance of redeeming lost money, rarely seem to deliver.
cheers, happy Saturday.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hi all,
Just wanted to say thank you to Trancemonkey. Its great to have someone with your experience on the forum and appreciate the time you have taken to explain things from your point of view. Information is not always easily accessible and as a player we can often feel "fobbed off" or avoided when asking questions of the industry peeps.
In relation to randomness, 6 - 12 months ago i was loudly singing the chorus that slots have changed. This was on the back of a horrible 12 months of minimal wins/withdrawals, pointless bonus rounds and shortened game time from deposits. Fortunately though, since then my RTP has been quite good and ive been lucky enough to have a few 1000x wins over the last 6 months. I probably deposit a little more than i used to but have been able to get a decent amount of play time from my deposits and often in the position to withdraw or re-coup a reasonable amount of my initial deposits at the close of session. The fact that i actually rarely do this is my own fault and can more appropriately be attributed momentary retardation than anything to do with randomness.
On reflection, i think my game play and activity was also impacting my chances of getting a big win. For a while, i was playing in a lot of battles/tournies where although fun, often soaks up a lot of your play time and because big wins in these formats often doesn't translate into real money, you forget to count them. Well, i did anyway... i think.
One more point i would like to touch on is like a number of other posters i have some concerns regarding the likes of YGGDrasil particularly with the game VGB. Shit, im no expert in the matter but this game really seems to suck people in and makes me wonder about their ethical awareness. This game more than any seems to emphasize a number of features I imagine would be problematic for gamblers with addiction are IMO are pushing the boundaries or fairness in their game design. This is particularly obvious with 'picking bonus round' and the rings around the players that always move at different speeds and although appear to offer a realistic chance of redeeming lost money, rarely seem to deliver.
cheers, happy Saturday.

A good post and pretty much sums up some of what I think the reasons are for people's beliefs... And yes some providers don't help themselves...

 

[nojoke]

Random ?


I think the only "Random" thing is wether your account has been deemed worthy of a win for a change.
Very easy for "The Central Nerve System" to check how badly your account has been treated over a given amount of time and money deposited.
Your account is then compensated for the losses with wins that will always leave you losing in the long run.

Ever noticed how when the "Winning" is happening it happens on every game you open ?
How can that be ?

When you lose, Every game you open, You lose on.
How can that be ?

The casino/provider only has to return 96% or whatever it is to the customer, So why would they give the customer any more ?
Would they not just "Compensate" and then call it "Random". I reckon so.

Tin foil, I eat it it for breakfast!

 

[trancemonkey]

Random ?


I think the only "Random" thing is wether your account has been deemed worthy of a win for a change.
Very easy for "The Central Nerve System" to check how badly your account has been treated over a given amount of time and money deposited.
Your account is then compensated for the losses with wins that will always leave you losing in the long run.

Ever noticed how when the "Winning" is happening it happens on every game you open ?
How can that be ?

When you lose, Every game you open, You lose on.
How can that be ?

The casino/provider only has to return 96% or whatever it is to the customer, So why would they give the customer any more ?
Would they not just "Compensate" and then call it "Random". I reckon so.

Tin foil, I eat it it for breakfast!

Well for one, for your hypothesis to be true, every single provider would have to be in on it....

 

[nojoke]

Well for one, for your hypothesis to be true, every single provider would have to be in on it....

They each have their own "Central Nerve Sytem" though......Do they not ?

Very easy to keep it "In House" like many large and small organisations do.

"Sign this please"

 

[trancemonkey]

I give up... You guys have beaten me...
I'm gonna go and make some random slots and leave you with the notion we rig everything as nothing I can say will change your mind.

From now on in threads like this I'm gonna try and just observe...