Hi all, first post, is this person talking nonsense?


Newbie member
Jun 10, 2023
I had this chat with staff at one of the bookies. Sounds wrong to me. Thoughts?


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You are now chatting with P​

Hey, you're through to P. Please bear with me a moment while I review the conversation so far and load your account.

I appreciate you'd like assistance with your account Brian, how can I help?

Hello P. I have been playing the slot game Merlins revenge tonight. Please can you confirm amount staked and amount won/lost for tonight's play.

Yes of course, no problem. I can review your session on Merlin's Revenge.

Merlins Revenge Megaways - Your total turnover - £ 241.60.

Turnover is amount staked?

That's correct.

RTP - 62.77%

Total loss from today £ 89.97.

RTP is -62.77?

You lost 37.23% of your wager amount which is £ 89.97.


I get you wanted your session reviewing, is there anything else I can help with today?

RTP means 96% back right?

That would be the expected amount of return.

Okay. And I wagered £241.60

That's the one yes.

RTP for this session again is MINUS 62.77? Correct?

No, it is 62.77% of your money returned.

You spent £ 241.60, you lost £ 89.97, this equates to a 62.77% RTP.

So where is the other £141.63? I only have a balance of 18 pence.

That is the turnover, the back and forth, not the amount you have deposited.

So RTP is not 96% of the money you stake?

It is a guideline, not a guaranteed amount.

your total deposits on site were £ 90.00, which works out roughly what your loss was £ 89.97.

i.e. the winnings from the money you deposit with and play with, do not also return 96%?

No it doesn't mean you will get 96% back, it is a rough guideline over millions of spins.

Okay. But I am trying to find out how I could have a 62.77% RTP if I deposited £90 and spent it all on the game. I certainly don't have a balance of more that 18p.

Surely the return to player in this case is actually the £90 deposited divided by the £241.60 staked total?

As I have lost £90. It can only be a negative percentage.

No it isn't. it is the wins and losses accrued.

You lost all of your deposits on the slot.

But the back and forth amount was £ 241.60.

I deposited £90. What were the total winnings ONLY?

You didn't simply deposit £90 and lose every single round.

No I won what? Approx £150?

You had £ 241.60. worth of wagers for the deposits you made, but you lost £ 89.97.

You lost 100% of your deposits.

But for the slot, you had a total turnover of £ 241.60 in rounds, equating to RTP of 62.77%.

Can I help with any other query?

I am still confused


Unfortunately, I have explained it in several ways and cannot think of any other way to explain it.

Please clarify one thing

I'll try for sure.

RTP means Return to Player. 96% means you wager a pound, you get 96p back - over one million spins, correct?

That is correct yes.

Okay. I have wagered £240 today. I am down £90. Difference is £150 in winnings. Roughly speaking. Which I then staked again.

On that slot.

Okay then.

Please try one more time, show me as a sum.

How you got the 67% RTP for the session.

Because the £150 is 62.77%. of £241.60 wagered.

Okay, I see that, but the £150 was all wagered again. so where is the RTP for that £150?

The RTP is for the total £241.60 wagered.

Okay it makes zero sense but thanks anyway.
It means to calculate the RTP you've received you take the value of your bets on game X divided by the value of your wins on game X (from those bets) multiply that by 100 and you have your RTP on game X as a percentage. Simples.

Or see here, for example :
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How to calculate return to player (RTP)
By dividing the win and turnover figures generated from a game you can determine the actual RTP.
For example, if after one month of play a game, designed with a 91.68% RTP, has accrued £1,200,000 of turnover and £1,085,000 in wins the RTP can be calculated as follows:
1,085,000 / 1,200,000 = .9042
Therefore this game has achieved an actual RTP of 90.42%, which is below the designed RTP. ...

- Max

the only part I can see that is technically incorrect is

“RTP means Return to Player. 96% means you wager a pound, you get 96p back - over one million spins, correct?”

“That is correct yes.”

the correct answer is

over 1 million spins you would expect on “average“ to get back 96p for every £1 wagered, but this can and will vary depending on game volatility etc and is in no way a guaranteed % for every player.

Some people find it hard to believe that if they lose all there money in one session that their RTP was 0% for that session but this is not how you work it out.

(Wins / wagers) * 100 gets you the RTP %

say I bet just £1 and win 80p

then .80 / 1 * 100 = 80%

in your case

151.63 / 241.60 * 100 = 62.7607%

hope that helps
Sorry Jan,

But it’s wins / bets * 100 = RTP
hahahahha, you have no clue how many simple mistakes i made today, and here another one. Good morning, Jan!
Worth bearing in mind that RTP is achieved over millions of spins. So when playing, in what usually amounts to a few hundred spins on any given game, RTP can vary greatly.

Some may find themselves well over a 100% on a game, and therefore end up in profit, before the mechanics and maths level out the percentage to something approximating the game's stated RTP.

I used to be just as confused about how losing e.g £100 on a purported 96% RTP slot means I've busted out in such a horrific manner. Yet in the end, the game's maths does the talking, and it's on to the next game :eek::D

For the record, a 62% return on your wagering is abysmal and pretty far from most slots' output. Chalk it off as a particularly bleak session, or better yet, avoid Merlin's Revenge Megaways for a duration :cool:

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