Gaming Analysis Group

[homerbert]

Awesome idea, hopefully it will help game developers to create games which we, players, really need

Br,

Vitali

 

[neilw]

Sounds a great idea.

Only one concern tho. And no disrespect to Simmo or others involved.

But the one time this was tried does not seem to have turned out to be the greatest of successes. By that i mean there has been no mention of Afterlife Inferno since the thread at it's release. For a slot with such potential not a screenshot or mention of it since.

So need to ask how many of the people that put their input in actually play it. It just does not seem to have been a great success. I know tho its all trial and error to get what everyone wants.

Yeah i know i sound negative but at least i give criticism where i think its due and that can't be bad

I guess it depends how you're measuring it.

I think the use of experienced players prior to the launch of the slot was a great success. The Developer & Simmo got a whole load of useful feedback. Some he was able to use, others he wasn't. At the end of the day the Developer has to make the decisions about what to include or not, it's a fine balancing act for them and I suspect a very difficult one. As for the success of Afterlife Inferno I'm sure we'll get an update at some point.

I was involved in the testing, it's not the type of game i'd play normally, but my feedback was as relevant as someone that loved it, and enabled the developer to know whether they had pitched it to the right sort of player. All comments are valid and can be used in all sorts of ways, either to validate the thinking or unearth something not considered.

 

[Harry_BKK]

This should be fun!

Can't wait to see what games come out after the PFG has given them a thourough bashing, + & -

 

[robby811]

This is amazing news.
This can only mean better games for the players.
Can you imagine?
No more Hugo’s or emoticons ...
Or twin spin deluxe. Starburst....

LoL what do you have against Twin Spin or Starburst its not my fav slots but ist not bad and also not top of the Best .... just standard slots i use then often when i have only few cents from some 5FS rewards or something and often it works to get up

And also think about when was starburst realeased i think long time ago ???

 

[The Viking]

Great idea as we all have diffrent opinon on how slots should be made
Should be cool seeing 15-20 diffrent views on how slots play and how you want them to be

 

[robby811]

Hopefully the Thread continues the way, like the few last Posts are written... so that i directly and clearly understand anything whats it is about I m now honest as i started reading dunovers 1st Post i was done at the half and did not really understand it all because thats higer level english so much words i dont have heard before and when i then have to search each and every one of them and what they mean __ NO im Out skip to next post But great Idea @dunover anyway i know what this thread is all about

 

[dunover]

Thanks for interest and replies!

With confidentiality, even if we have worked on a game and it is now released, the public wouldn't know if we had assisted via the PFG unless the developer appeared here and endorsed the service or commented themselves. I shall also make it clear that no single tester would be aware of the other ones involved so all opinions are ringfenced individually.

I would not be supplying all the information, i.e. sending the tester a demo link and crib sheet that stated 'this is a HV game' or 'has a volatile feature' etc. It is important that the tester evolves their own opinion and impression of those aspects themselves - after all the customer needs to know (possibly more than all else) how the game would be identified and viewed by a new player when released, as that's when the game has to start getting some footfall so-to-speak and begins to earn them money.

I won't disclose the contents I am going to be adding to the tester sheet, but one I can state publicly (and this is why I need trust here!) is the fact you will likely get a demo link which allows you to trigger features and big wins etc. from a menu. The obvious temptation is that from minute one you would sit there actioning the 'goodies' first and having done that would lose focus (no pun etc.) on playing the base game normally which is a vital part of my reporting back. So the game will need playing realistically for the first 20-30 minutes until you get the 'feel' for it. Then for expediency's sake you could play the various features several times by initiating them yourselves therefore the sequence layout in the sheet or notepad would reflect this; features would be further down the list!

As for Afterlife, the game is designed for a specific player and had a maths model Leander hadn't used or modelled games on before although slots such as their Codex could be quite volatile. Until that point they hadn't issued a game along the lines of Immortal or other multi player-select features. As you will be aware, Leander don't have the casino penetration (yet) of other mid-sized developers such as Play'n Go and Elk Studios so a varied and attractive games catalogue is needed and there are also platform considerations for developers too. It wasn't long ago BTG had relatively few customers but a run of successes beginning with B*n*nz* has changed that - big time!

That brings me to the fundamental aspects of slot development. The ingredients are all out there already, graphics artists, maths people, expanding wilds, multiplying wilds, multiways, cascading reels and numerous others - it's how you put them together and mix those ingredients! If you take B*n*nz* it was one of the rare games that created a new ingredient. Actually no, I believe Dragon Born or QoR was the first to use their trademarked 'megaways' format (dynamic reel rows) but the other 2 ingredients of cascading replacement symbols (numerous such as Da Vinci Diamonds, Gonzo's etc.) and feature increasing multiplier (Cleopatra 2) were there for years. BTG put them together very well, making a very complex formula work eventually and patenting it and you know the rest...

I suppose the example above is the dream of every developer as just one smash hit could spring a massive upturn in casinos' take-up of their slots. Development is also expensive with licensing, auditing and integration considerations. Bigger developers tend to have two types of game I find, having analysed over 7,500 online slots during the last 4 years. I'll give you an example, Microgaming - you see numerous what I label 'type 2' slots which are nothing more than shelf-fillers, in other words all variations or clones of the same basic mechanic or framework with a few tweaks and then we get the occasional 'type 1' such as Jurassic Park or World which you can see far more resources have been invested in and has a very different appearance and mechanic. I would surmise that those bigger 'type 1' projects would be where the PFG could be vital to a developer and come into its own and pay dividends.

 

[Reelsoffun]

As I understand these focus groups, the maths element is mostly irrelevant (but for feedback for future games and in only the most rudimentary way), as by the time it reaches the focus group, those are the least likely tweaks to be made, as opposed to general appeal, graphics, music, smooth running/bugs, likeability etc.
I could be wrong of course

Yeah thats what I was meaning that some games lack in even the basics of core things that could be in all games like removal of BIG/MEGA win count ups for 12x etc All those little niggly things that piss players off where the developer either has no clue it does or dont care, some games its blatant that the designer dont even play slots. The player group would be able to get all the core basics ironed out, as once thats done the math will just be for each type of player on a per game basis, eg low mid and high variance. But some of the stuff that's been mentioned so many times like scatter dropping sounds when its impossible to trigger eg when your first one lands on reel 4 is just plain lazy to not have sorted out as a "core" basics, and there is countless other little bits which providers probably count as minor but would really improve the player experience way more than they realize, which is what i feel the focus group is going to be more about, with other stuff of course.

 

[dunover]

Yeah thats what I was meaning that some games lack in even the basics of core things that could be in all games like removal of BIG/MEGA win count ups for 12x etc All those little niggly things that piss players off where the developer either has no clue it does or dont care, some games its blatant that the designer dont even play slots. The player group would be able to get all the core basics ironed out, as once thats done the math will just be for each type of player on a per game basis, eg low mid and high variance. But some of the stuff that's been mentioned so many times like scatter dropping sounds when its impossible to trigger eg when your first one lands on reel 4 is just plain lazy to not have sorted out as a "core" basics, and there is countless other little bits which providers probably count as minor but would really improve the player experience way more than they realize, which is what i feel the focus group is going to be more about, with other stuff of course.

Which is exactly what we will identify, report and then hopefully see dropped into Room 101.....

 

[Jono777]

Which is exactly what we will identify, report and then hopefully see dropped into Room 101.....

You know that Target on the final spin on CFTBL is going nowhere, right?

 

[dunover]

You know that Target on the final spin on CFTBL is going nowhere, right?

Yes, the Turd will retain its innate pointless animation and MG will still tell you post-feature '0.00 Congratulations! You Win Bugger-All'

 

[Casinomeister]

For the official brief rundown - it's here:
The Gaming Analysis Group - Casinomeister

And we changed the name to Gaming Analysis Group (GAG)

 

[dunover]

For the official brief rundown - it's here:
The Gaming Analysis Group - Casinomeister

And we changed the name to Gaming Analysis Group (GAG)

Yeah. So forget 'PFG'. That's soooo yesterday.

Maybe amend my thread title?

Edit - it's done.

 

[goatwack]

So 'Thorough Internal Testers' is out then?

 

[dionysus]

So 'Thorough Internal Testers' is out then?

Well, you'll always be a T.I.T. in my mind goatie

 

[goatwack]

Well, you'll always be a T.I.T. in my mind goatie

Thanks man, I'm always striving to be a better T.I.T

Hold on

Why I oughta

 

[dunover]

So 'Thorough Internal Testers' is out then?

As is the Casinomeister Union of New Testers

and Moratorium Involving New Game Examination.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Sounds a great idea.

Only one concern tho. And no disrespect to Simmo or others involved.

But the one time this was tried does not seem to have turned out to be the greatest of successes. By that i mean there has been no mention of Afterlife Inferno since the thread at it's release. For a slot with such potential not a screenshot or mention of it since.

So need to ask how many of the people that put their input in actually play it. It just does not seem to have been a great success. I know tho its all trial and error to get what everyone wants.

Yeah i know i sound negative but at least i give criticism where i think its due and that can't be bad

Hard to play a game that didn't appear at the time of release on any of the casino's I can play at here in Belgium. I even PM'd @Simmo! about it after he asked me to but he never replied. We're now quite a few weeks after release and still none of them have it. I'd like to give it a go but yeah, that's that...

 

[bebo67]

I'm up for being a tester And I promise I won't swear

 

[Simmo!]

Hard to play a game that didn't appear at the time of release on any of the casino's I can play at here in Belgium. I even PM'd @Simmo! about it after he asked me to but he never replied. We're now quite a few weeks after release and still none of them have it. I'd like to give it a go but yeah, that's that...

Oops - really sorry about that SiS. Totally slipped my mind but Leander games tend to have limited coverage and I don't get updates on where the game goes.

That said, I have been watching how it's performed since going live and as Trancemonkey suggested early doors, it's settled into the middle of the pack. One or two casinos sort on popularity and it does poke it's head up quite high from time to time but ultimately, it's a pretty high variance game and it became obvious from the game testing the focus group did here that it would divide opinion. The focus group process was fantastically useful and I learned a lot from it (I think Leander did too from the quality of feedback). Actually, I have been approached since then to get involved in another game and now that my dream of doing a properly high variance game is out of my system, if I get the gig, I'll be aiming for something more medium variance (OK, probably a bit above that lol ;-) ) and applying a lot of what I learned there too.

 

[dunover]

Oops - really sorry about that SiS. Totally slipped my mind but Leander games tend to have limited coverage and I don't get updates on where the game goes.

That said, I have been watching how it's performed since going live and as Trancemonkey suggested early doors, it's settled into the middle of the pack. One or two casinos sort on popularity and it does poke it's head up quite high from time to time but ultimately, it's a pretty high variance game and it became obvious from the game testing the focus group did here that it would divide opinion. The focus group process was fantastically useful and I learned a lot from it (I think Leander did too from the quality of feedback). Actually, I have been approached since then to get involved in another game and now that my dream of doing a properly high variance game is out of my system, if I get the gig, I'll be aiming for something more medium variance (OK, probably a bit above that lol ;-) ) and applying a lot of what I learned there too.

Neil - contact this Simmo! bloke and do your sales stuff. We may have a new customer.

 

[dunover]

I'm up for being a tester And I promise I won't swear

Swearing is fine, I even did it once or twice on my videos. It will be edited out of the final customer report though.

 

[Balthazar]

Hello! Finally good ol' dunover has turned blue on the forum, and that's not just the language! The long awaited inception of the Player Focus Group is here and I shall be administering the day-to-day running of it alongside Neil and Bryan. The PFG is a commercial venture leveraged off the back of Casinomeister's stellar reputation and the combined knowledge of its membership. This is the first service of this type as far as we know and we believe the concept has great potential for both developers and players.

Many members here often bemoan the lack of quality in new slot releases and are repeatedly observing aspects players don't like in many of them. There seems sometimes to be a disconnect between developers and the market and both of those entities want the same thing - decent and playable games!

To that end, what better idea than to link the combined experience of seasoned players here and those having other areas of expertise in game analysis and development along with marketing and to then provide that to developers in one tiered service?

Well, it's happening now finally and this is where my role requires some (paid) assistance. While Bryan and Neil mainly perform the customer liaison and marketing role, I shall be assigning testers from various demographics and will be analysing the game in question myself and providing the final customer report and video annotation of said Excel report. A summary of the testers' findings and opinions is a vital part of this report as obviously we all focus on different aspects and have varied preferences which the developer needs to be aware of. More heads a better job makes!

I will shortly be contacting a number of respected members who have previously demonstrated a good understanding of new slots and like myself have posted polite, intelligent and objective opinions regarding them. Perhaps it's a good job my YT has gone! but trust me on this - every developer requires honesty, whether negative or otherwise as those of you whom have helped Simmo! with Afterlife Inferno will recall.

All I will require is the tester's age group and male/female (something I already know for most anyway) as I need a balanced group of respondents. Those I have chosen for any particular contract will have their forum name forwarded to Bryan because as holder of the Data Protection on CM only he can obtain necessary details for your payment via Paypal or Bank Transfer only. I will select a pool of suitable persons and usually only some (rather than all) will be used on any particular contract, depending on the requirements of the customer. Payments will be settled by Bryan once final invoicing is complete and paid.

Your work will take 2-3 hours maximum, most of which will be playing a demo and the rest filling in a crib sheet on either notepad or Excel I have designed and sent you at the beginning. Once that's returned to me, you're done. It goes without saying that your role will be absolutely confidential and in some cases the admin will have to sign a No Disclosure Agreement. This is why I shall be choosing very carefully!

Sorry for the long post, but I need to be pretty expansive here to hopefully forestall any questions I anticipated.

Further down the line I believe both ourselves as players and the developers will see the benefits of this project! Thanks!

Congratulations to you Dunover for the initiative, that's good stuff. I've always been saying that I didn't understand who designed most of these slots because surely they weren't slot players. Well, looks like that's about to change

 

[robby811]

I'm up for being a tester And I promise I won't swear

Ohh Ohhh oHhhh

Everybody be aware

 

[robby811]

Thanks man, I'm always striving to be a better T.I.T

Hold on

Why I oughta

Show me the Tits big ones ?! <3 but no nubs just T*** sry but i can t handle me i have to post it....