Thanks..the sort codes and account numbers have been triple checked but i hadn't thought about getting the bank details the casino uses and see if First direct find a problem with that. Can i still PAB even though this is not an accredited casino here? I didn't think i could? Also i sense they will just say they are working on it...and part of me believes this but what is considered reasonable time in trying to solve a problem?
Here is a live chat from 1st August..another response i got when i pushed them again...
Me: hi
You are now chatting with carla.
carla: Hi M, How may I help you?
Me: HI carla
Me: still no sign of my withdrawal? what is going on? Please can you help?
carla: let me look up your file and your username
Me: Is it unreasonable to expect payment by now?
carla: I see Christian send you a message earlier today
Me: I have just had an email from Christian 3 mins ago!
carla: 3 mins ago?
carla: ah, yes chekcing the time it is
Me: yes..but it is more of the same...
Me: I understand your position, but for us it is also not normal that a banking transfer willbe declined. I am doing my best to make an exception for you here, and get payouts done ASAP to you. Once again, you are right that is taking more time than normal, but unfortunately we can not change the fact the payouts got declined by bank. Normally it will be handled after 24 hours, and on bank acounts 1-3 working days afterwards. I keep you posted.
carla: What do you mean, by more of the same?
Me: same thing he has been saying to me for weeks now.
carla: I see, he is trying to make an exception for you here,,,
carla: Normal procedures are that we have a known valid bankpayment for our KYC records.
Me: i don't understand why ( like so many other casinos) payment can't be made back to moneybookers ( my deposit method) or neteller ( my other e-wallet)...
carla: I see there is the trouble.
Me: i know... but if it is not working ...we can't just carry on ignoring things!
carla: becuase we are bound to regulations which preventing money laundering
carla: that is why we set up a policy according to those rules
Me: My bank has never refused bacs tranfers before from all over the world!
carla: one part for higher payment amounts, is that we also have a proven right bank account, than we know alwyas to whho we send money to.
Me: can you give me details of attempted bacs transfers..where from, when , how much etc so i can ask my bank ...
carla: Al I can see here in a glance is that we have tried 3 times -
carla: I have no access to the banking logs are statements, I can only see the attempts and results
Me: its the UK... it should work...it has always worked in the past... I need the details. I am really frustrated.
carla: I really understand your frustration M
Me: Can you get the details so i can try to do something my end.
carla: But I know your case in in good hands at Christians
Its the most frustrating experience i have ever had. God knows why i ever signed up to them...Just fancied trying a new place ...they didn't even have a great bonus !
There is no SPECIFIC regulation that stipulates payment must be made to a particular account, just that whatever accounts are used have gone through the appropriate KYC checks.
Moneybookers (Skrill) is also an account that has to comply with KYC procedures, so once verified, is just as much a "known account" as a bank account. Since you have deposited via Skrill, the casino has already verified the account.
There is also an alternative to their failed procedures, and that is for you to DEPOSIT from the bank account they are trying to pay to. This will also tie you to the account, and even if they still can't make payment to it, they will at least have satisfied their "policy".
I usually deposit via Neteller, and have frequently withdrawn more than €4000, WAY more, yet have never had a casino insist on paying via bank transfer.
From what First Direct told you, you (or a fraudster) could more EASILY defraud the casino by providing the sort code and account number of their own account, having first deposited via a hacked Skrill account. The bank cannot check CREDITS, it's just a matter of the sender providing the correct details, which in turn is provided by the player. Making a deposit from your bank is a different matter, you either have to log in to the bank to initiate the transfer, or use a debit card on the casino's banking page, for which you will need possession of the card. The casino would then get the details from the inbound deposit and be able to check that the name matches the details provided to the casino.
There is yet another alternative, knowing which bank it is, and that is for them to send a cheque, and you to pay it in using one of those envelopes you will have been sent to manage the account, and which can be ordered online if you run out.
Whilst a cheque is even slower than the 1-3 days for a bank transfer, if it's in your name, and the casino's bank account has the money, it should go through. The casino will not have to use your sort code and account number to send a cheque, you provide this on the envelope when paying it in.
They can then verify that the cheque has been deposited, which again should satisfy their policy of having a verified bank account on file for you.
As for me, NO casino has "my bank details on file", so there is something a bit odd going on here.
Now this in particular looks like the whole thing is a stalling tactic:-
carla: I have no access to the banking logs are statements, I can only see the attempts and results
Me: its the UK... it should work...it has always worked in the past... I need the details. I am really frustrated.
carla: I really understand your frustration M
Me: Can you get the details so i can try to do something my end.
carla: But I know your case in in good hands at Christians
Understandable that CS don't have instant access to this, but then CS dodges the request for them to obtain the details the cashiers are using so that you can verify with your bank that they are correct. They would rather work in the dark as they have been trying for half the month, rather than have you help out by getting help from First Direct as to why THEY are bouncing the credits back to the casino's bank.
It could be that the casino's bank are using the details you sent, but not in the correct format for the region from which the transaction originates. Perhaps they are trying to use the sort code and account number as IBAN and BIC, for an international (non US) payment, whereas in the short form (6 digit sort and 8 digit account no) they are for transfers between accounts wholly within the UK banking system.
You could try sending them the international IBAN and BIC to try, instead of the sort code and account number. This might work (unless they really are stalling). IBAN and BIC are shown on the statement that comes through the post, or if you have online only, should be available from the banking pages, or you could phone them and ask.
You should seriously consider not going back to this casino after this gets sorted out, it has been a complete farce of a very simple procedure.