Gossip and Rumours Evolution Gaming Rigged ?

[DonkeyEvo]

I would say large stakes would put a player at a low priority of that container (unless they have lost ridiculous amounts and long term RTP needs to correct itself) but there's no doubt that live isnt really "live" but controlled by an RNG with the live portion being for show purposes.

Thats right, this could be one of the factors.

For example; lets imagine you are playing roulette with 200 different players. And you happen to be the one placing the biggest bets. This would certainly impact the choice this container makes.

Im not saying you will not be able to win if you happen to be the biggest better, since many other factors are calculated in aswell.
For example; When you have a bad rtp, or when your rtp is higher, this will also impact it.

 

[satchnz]

In general, to simply explain this is not possible as the complete process is very complex.

However for most games all players are put into a container. This container then decides the games outcome based on many different factors.

So…this is done in order to make sure the actual RTP of the game does not stray too much higher than what is advertised??

 

[DonkeyEvo]

So…this is done in order to make sure the actual RTP of the game does not stray too much higher than what is advertised??

Yes, and it will manage individual players rtp's aswell.

 

[satchnz]

Yes, and it will manage individual players rtp's aswell.

Ok this aligns with how I thought it worked and what I’ve read before.

While it’s a very crappy way to operate, as long as they maintain RTP they aren’t breaking any regulations I guess. No different to how video roulette probably works, and not the great scandal it sounded like.

But…this is the reason I will never play any of these live games.

 

[DonkeyEvo]

Ok this aligns with how I thought it worked and what I’ve read before.

While it’s a very crappy way to operate, as long as they maintain RTP they aren’t breaking any regulations I guess. No different to how video roulette probably works, and not the great scandal it sounded like.

But…this is the reason I will never play any of these live games.

I wouldn't even call it gambling, however everyone has got their own interpretation of gambling. In my eyes this is misleading customers.

 

[satchnz]

I wouldn't even call it gambling, however everyone has got their own interpretation of gambling. In my eyes this is misleading customers.

Don’t get me wrong. I totally agree with you 100%. I would expect most customers think these games are purely random.

 

[neilw]

We still don't know what game is being referred to.

It's all conjecture until we get a straight answer and an explanation of what game and the part of the game that is being manipulated.

If we're talking about the allocation of the lightning multipliers, that is one thing. If it's manipulating the final result where the ball lands, that's another thing.

Why won't you answer the specific questions addressed to you?

 

[satchnz]

We still don't know what game is being referred to.

It's all conjecture until we get a straight answer and an explanation of what game and the part of the game that is being manipulated.

If we're talking about the allocation of the lightning multipliers, that is one thing. If it's manipulating the final result where the ball lands, that's another thing.

Why won't you answer the specific questions addressed to you?

Well looking at it logically:

Roulette and wheel games - they can manipulate the allocation of multipliers and where the ball or pointer lands based on all bets placed. They can also alter what bets are placed and the payout of those bets. The last two would be blatantly obvious to the player, so it would have to be one or both of the first two options.

For card based games I hate to think what they might or might not be doing.

If they are manipulating one of their games it would be safe to say they will be manipulating all that are possible to manipulate. But I appreciate you want to hear this from the horse’s (donkey’s) mouth.

 

[DonkeyEvo]

We still don't know what game is being referred to.

It's all conjecture until we get a straight answer and an explanation of what game and the part of the game that is being manipulated.

If we're talking about the allocation of the lightning multipliers, that is one thing. If it's manipulating the final result where the ball lands, that's another thing.

Why won't you answer the specific questions addressed to you?

Thats because of the complex nature this is put together. What exactly do you mean by manipulating the final result? If you are reffering to the physics I have no clue how exactly this is done.

Its not like there's someone with a remote control affecting the game's outcome. Its all algorithms.

 

[Jono777]

Post some proof, this will stop any negativity and remove any doubt

 

[satchnz]

Thats because of the complex nature this is put together. What exactly do you mean by manipulating the final result? If you are reffering to the physics I have no clue how exactly this is done.

Its not like there's someone with a remote control affecting the game's outcome. Its all algorithms.

If they are not manipulating the physics of these games then I’m at a loss on how algorithms alone could come into play, so I’ll stop speculating now.

But some of us here do have a reasonable level of intelligence so we should understand if you can explain what is happening at a high level.

Regardless the end result is the same - stay away from these types of games.

 

[Webzcas]

Post some proof, this will stop any negativity and remove any doubt

Well ideally send proof direct to Neil.

 

[goatwack]

Yeah, send it to Neil, but by Jove print the proof here too goddamit. How many rigged threads have we endured, only to have the protagonist chicken out at the last minute!

I've earned my Rigged stripes, and I demand to see those dodgy spins and funky balls

 

[satchnz]

Yeah, send it to Neil, but by Jove print the proof here too goddamit. How many rigged threads have we endured, only to have the protagonist chicken out at the last minute!

I've earned my Rigged stripes, and I demand to see those dodgy spins and funky balls

And to be fair, I did learn my physics in the southern hemisphere. Your water over here goes down the plug hole in the wrong direction so lord only knows how other things are meant to work over on this side.

 

[justdoit]

any one use this page? when you play table games
casinoscores.com

 

[Reelsoffun]

Ok this aligns with how I thought it worked and what I’ve read before.

While it’s a very crappy way to operate, as long as they maintain RTP they aren’t breaking any regulations I guess. No different to how video roulette probably works, and not the great scandal it sounded like.

But…this is the reason I will never play any of these live games.

Well that’s a bit of a stretch to say they wouldn’t be breaking any regulations, if they manipulating the RTP on a game or player basis to maintain RTP, they wouldn’t be able to do that without basing it on past play, in other words they are using a compensator, making the results not independent and linked to previous play would be against all we are told that each spin is random and not affected by past outcomes? So which is it?

 

[satchnz]

Well that’s a bit of a stretch to say they wouldn’t be breaking any regulations, if they manipulating the RTP on a game or player basis to maintain RTP, they wouldn’t be able to do that without basing it on past play, in other words they are using a compensator, making the results not independent and linked to previous play would be against all we are told that each spin is random and not affected by past outcomes? So which is it?

It’s all guesswork as the OP doesn’t want to offer up any real explanation. I should have put a ? after I said “I guess”.

 

[slot_zombie]

Post some proof, this will stop any negativity and remove any doubt

Well, we may have been left dangling without the proverbial knockout (donkey?) punch of anything in the form of evidence... ..

But we have at least been treated to the sight of Donkeyevo's (forum avatar) luscious lips. Got quite lost in them there for a moment. And I'm not even confused. ..

 

[johnnymcc1966]

36 numbers being played by thousands of people at a time,so somebody is going to win every spin aren't they as all numbers are covered many times? So how do you manipulate all the numbers if the ball doesn't fly off the table and land in the brazziere of the large chested attractive lady spinning the wheel?

 

[trees]

they just know who can win once a while and who not.
they let u win and u continue and they take right back.

i even heard they have ppl have accounts on all the casinos and come win our lost money.
to make look the rtp is OK.
but they got the money with no tax paid as it was won!!
if u ask me they can control the physics?
just look all the videos on youtube!! do they look natural??
ofcourse not!!
and iam telling u.. i aint small player!!

 

[johnnymcc1966]

they just know who can win once a while and who not.
they let u win and u continue and they take right back.

i even heard they have ppl have accounts on all the casinos and come win our lost money.
to make look the rtp is OK.
but they got the money with no tax paid as it was won!!
if u ask me they can control the physics?
just look all the videos on youtube!! do they look natural??
ofcourse not!!
and iam telling u.. i aint small player!!

Well then. That's me completely convinced as that's irrefutable.

 

[trees]

Well then. That's me completely convinced as that's irrefutable.

believe me !! they know all the numbers from all the casinos who is playing.. they got all the data only they abuse it
they know where they have to get money from!!

let me tell u a story.

i played so many years on evolution gaming roulette i use everywhere about same nickname only few numbers behind is diffirent.
also i played pokerstars poker.
then pokerstars got casino games and live games aswell.
but my pokerstars nickname is totally diffirent,.
when i join the live roulette the girl greets me with the nickname i use elsewhere!!!
how is that possible? they just know it was me!!

 

[goatwack]

But again, and God even I'm saying it now, if someone plays Evolution for years and discovers they're a bit fishy, then wouldn't said player stop playing there, if convinced foul play is afoot?

Three, four, five sessions and you'd think that's enough handing them money. And if carrying on playing, to prove just how dodgy the games actually are, wouldn't that player make it their personal (and expensive) mission to collate data on those wrongdoers?

Because as much as I detest Evolution, right now it's just a collection of anecdotes and bad sessions, without a shred of Kojak-esque proof

 

[trees]

But again, and God even I'm saying it now, if someone plays Evolution for years and discovers they're a bit fishy, then wouldn't said player stop playing there, if convinced foul play is afoot?

Three, four, five sessions and you'd think that's enough handing them money. And if carrying on playing, to prove just how dodgy the games actually are, wouldn't that player make it their personal (and expensive) mission to collate data on those wrongdoers?

Because as much as I detest Evolution, right now it's just a collection of anecdotes and bad sessions, without a shred of Kojak-esque proof

as most of you are worried that the slot providers rtp is too low to increase their winnings.
that i have the same with evolution.
my hitting rate is way too bad as i cover so many numbers it is just impossible!!
yes iam a big fool and just continue that is my weakness.
i can buy houses with the money they took from me~!!!

 

[aceking123]

This is the main gripe with evolution roulette games it happens far far to often, it doesn't really matter which live games you play, it just has a knack of popping in where you haven't placed a bet, it really also doesn't matter if you have 30 numbers covered, it finds the ones uncovered at a alarming rate.

Game show wheels are out of this because I believe 100% they're not random & can be controlled to meet the rtp%.

From next month I shall play immersive roulette again & record a month's worth of play & bets, from 3 casinos using same bets, clearly I'm not going to get anywhere near enough spins but should have some fair stats from it, if anyone feels they wanna add there game play as well, this would be helpful ?

 

[BillyGoldblum]

One time I was playing it and I noticed it kept landing on a few parts I wasnt betting and thought it was strange. So I bet $1 on 35 numbers to see if something weird was going on. It landed on the one number I didnt bet.

Im not kidding and I havent played them since and that was some years ago.

 

[trees]

That is happening to me all the time..
The more i cover the more it will catch me on the weakest part I didn’t bet.

Some say just bad luck. I don’t call it bad luck anymore as I have lost too
Much money on it and spend so
Many sessions that I notice this behavior of the roulette is not natural and sometimes the manipulation goes wrong and that u see in some videos players recording it..
It’s like a illusion or a magic trick that works 99,99% of the time only evolution knows it..

Let me tell u another thing when I join table the girls start to cough and that I know it doesn’t matter anymore where I bet she gave the pitbosss already a sign everytime when I cover many numbers …

 

[Webzcas]

So, has any proof been sent to @neilw as of yet? I see the OP @DonkeyEvo hasn't been seen in the forum since the early hours of Sunday morning......

 

[satchnz]

I wouldn’t hold your breath…

 

[Jono777]

Think OP went to post proof, there was an intervention and they are now helping to prop up the M6 Motorway.

 

[neilw]

So, has any proof been sent to @neilw as of yet? I see the OP @DonkeyEvo hasn't been seen in the forum since the early hours of Sunday morning......

Nope, nothing, nada.

I'm disappointed, as I thought we'd be given some insight into how the games have been constructed.

It's given me an idea, so I am doing some research myself. Watch this space.

 

[Sasukdcf]

Ok so I have a question on this and I will confess I sit strongly on the side that these games are rigged to hell and back… having played and lost loads in the past ( and had one HUGE hit also )

And in my mind the frequency they go on cold spells and miss the 1 in 7 odds to hit a premium position on the wheel and go for 70/80/90 spins with nothing is just way to frequent …

Anyways the question is….

If it was controlled via motor for instance… to control RTP
Would that actually be allowed….

What law would it be breaking….

 

[TheAddict]

If it's controlled in order to maintain near as possible to a desired rtp then it's essentially compensated and so there should be info somewhere on the game detailing it is either compensated or not random.

 

[neilw]

Ok so I have a question on this and I will confess I sit strongly on the side that these games are rigged to hell and back… having played and lost loads in the past ( and had one HUGE hit also )

And in my mind the frequency they go on cold spells and miss the 1 in 7 odds to hit a premium position on the wheel and go for 70/80/90 spins with nothing is just way to frequent …

Anyways the question is….

If it was controlled via motor for instance… to control RTP
Would that actually be allowed….

What law would it be breaking….

When Playtech first released Spin A Win, the wheel, although physical, was controlled by RNG. They quickly scrapped it, and went for a manual wheel, letting gravity and the flapper control the outcome.

The wheels being used by Evo, Playtech, Pragmatic etc are made by TCS John Huxley and are all manual wheels. I've seen behind them, and there is nothing there, no motors, wires or anything that could control the spin.

 

[The Reel Story]

Ok so I have a question on this and I will confess I sit strongly on the side that these games are rigged to hell and back… having played and lost loads in the past ( and had one HUGE hit also )

And in my mind the frequency they go on cold spells and miss the 1 in 7 odds to hit a premium position on the wheel and go for 70/80/90 spins with nothing is just way to frequent …

Anyways the question is….

If it was controlled via motor for instance… to control RTP
Would that actually be allowed….

What law would it be breaking….

Shades of grey here. If the result was chosen by a legitimate RNG, and they used a mechanical wheel to show that number, then that would be allowed (as the result is still random).

If they were actively choosing the number they want the result to be, because it is advantageous to them. then they would be breaking the terms of their gambling license and, probably, it would also constitute fraud.

As always in these situations, the reason it isn't rigged is because it doesn't have to be. The theoretical RTP of the game is already mathematically and statistically below 100%, so there is no reason to 'control' it. The game is designed for that to happen naturally.

If it's controlled in order to maintain near as possible to a desired rtp then it's essentially compensated and so there should be info somewhere on the game detailing it is either compensated or not random.

Online games are not allowed to be compensated.

 

[TheAddict]

Didn't know the law had changed on compensated online games. (Though I'm assuming it was legal at the time people were taking advantage of badly made Compensated online games.)

 

[The Reel Story]

Didn't know the law had changed on compensated online games. (Though I'm assuming it was legal at the time people were taking advantage of badly made Compensated online games.)

It's been a while but I think it's been a standard for as long as there has been regulation (at least in the UK). Of course, there was a time when there wasn't regulation and I'm no lawyer to say whether such a thing would or wouldn't have been covered by any fraud laws

 

[Sasukdcf]

So throwing a few things back there to all that have just commented and whoever else wants to chip in...

1) so Playtech made a wheel that was controlled.... so its easy enough to do...

2) thats a naive outlook " why would they cheat the maths is made so they dont have too" Cmon, why are there so many rogue casinos out there.... maths says they dont have to be rogue.... GREED... same reason RTP is altered and why roulette balls magically bounce out after coming to a rest....

3) heres a Tin hat theory for you..... I have one on slots too thats similar.... but @neilw, you say you have seen behind a wheel....

whats to say its the wheel they use.... maybe thats the one they show the authorities.....

also would you agree that the wheel (assuming its not controlled) can be subject to a certain amount of control by the host.... who after being hired and practising as its not subject to any interference like in roulette with the diamonds, should be able to judge release speed and position = a certain areas... known to players as being in collect mode... as each wheel always has a dead area

 

[The Dude]

So throwing a few things back there to all that have just commented and whoever else wants to chip in...

1) so Playtech made a wheel that was controlled.... so its easy enough to do...

2) thats a naive outlook " why would they cheat the maths is made so they dont have too" Cmon, why are there so many rogue casinos out there.... maths says they dont have to be rogue.... GREED... same reason RTP is altered and why roulette balls magically bounce out after coming to a rest....

3) heres a Tin hat theory for you..... I have one on slots too thats similar.... but @neilw, you say you have seen behind a wheel....

whats to say its the wheel they use.... maybe thats the one they show the authorities.....

also would you agree that the wheel (assuming its not controlled) can be subject to a certain amount of control by the host.... who after being hired and practising as its not subject to any interference like in roulette with the diamonds, should be able to judge release speed and position = a certain areas... known to players as being in collect mode... as each wheel always has a dead area

Just to chime in here real quick, it's hard to fathom how a conspiracy theory works in this industry (hidden knobs, reels tweaked, fake RTPs etc.), when there are SO MANY disgruntled ex employees who could easily blow a whistle. When and if that happens it's pretty rare. And now we have the OP who seems to not be able to provide any real evidence.

 

[The Dude]

Just think about how many ex-employees of Playtech would love to take those folks down.

 

[The Reel Story]

Just think about how many ex-employees of Playtech would love to take those folks down.

I AM an ex Playtech employee and I was dispatched under some pretty questionable circumstances.

Don't get me wrong, they do a lot of shady stuff (like most businesses). Minimizing tax, questionable acquisitions using company capital etc etc, but the point is, it's all LEGAL questionable stuff.

There was nothing I ever saw or built, or no conversation I ever had that pertained to rigging games. It just wasn't on the agenda. Quite the contrary, a LOT of money and effort is spent on adhering to the regulations.

'Greed' simply isn't a good enough reason for what is being suggested. There are plenty of other, legal, ways to be greedy in business that don't put your entire business at risk.

 

[Sasukdcf]

Hey Boss man, I feel honoured that you have taken the time to "chime in"

Thats a valid argument to a point, HOWEVER you could say that about the government, about the NHS about the energy companies, about Apple, Microsoft, Tiktok Insta EE barclays

The list is endless.....

I came on here back in 2015 when I was ABSOLUTELY 100% convinced there was an issue on coral..... I delved into it on here a little and then went rogue taking on Coral (to the Highest Level, which I already had a head start as my company had worked for them on a large Roll out for their shops so had some big names to start the ball rolling.....)

Not big enough though and although I did manage to spark an investigation internally and finally get offered £2K as a goodwill gesture (which I declined)

I then went to GC before they stopped taking phone calls and as it wasnt about an individual case they did start a case.....


BUT its a closed shop...... it went round in circles and Coral wouldnt answer the GCs Questions and so I went to the Testing House Nmi I think it was, and managed to speak to one of the directors there who was really candid with me and explained how the testing worked and what it did and didnt cover.... it transpired that the issue I was reporting was not even tested by the testing house AT ALL (progressive Jackpot) itwas onlt testing the RTP of the game itself and nothing to do with the PJP.....

I invested 100s of hours on this and the fact is its a Cloak and dagger industry thats so full of greed and I honestly think to believe its totally above board and as it should be is naive.....

the UKGC is so out of its depth its a joke, proved by things like removing autoplay (thanks for the RSI in my hand now) and the casinos know it and if they do get caught for something they just pay a fine, (way less than they netted from the breach and carry on)

 

[Sasukdcf]

didnt mean to hit send.....

But getting back to the point...... why are there sooooooooo many videos of these wheels going JUST past" when it looks like its landing all day long.... and how do they go on such long losing runs sooooooo often

 

[Sasukdcf]

never seen my local casino Roulette table do this!!! (sadly as i bet on zero all the time !!! )

 

[Sasukdcf]

so getting a bit techy now but hows about this for a theory...

If roulette balls were made of piezoeletric ceramic .The material used on the wheel was Barium Titanate BaTiO3 on the surface, and Barium sulfate BaSO4 on the inside insulation. The ball could have polarized surface charges when hit by an ultrasonic sound wave. This is sent from the inter- digital transducers placed in the pockets of each number. They send a wave to the ball that polarizes the surface with a negative charge. The spoon/ pocket of the number also negative; therefore the ball jumps out through electrostatic repulsion. Each number pocket is controlled by a transistor called IGBT. This transistor turn on the switch so that the pocket is negatively charged. The control room computer leaves the pockets that it wants the ball to go in neutral or off. This is all managed by the sophisticated software and computers. So that why you can see situation when the ball either gets pushed out violently or sucked into the exact to a number.

That would explain the above and be fairly simple to achieve the desired results

 

[paul7388]

so getting a bit techy now but hows about this for a theory...

If roulette balls were made of piezoeletric ceramic .The material used on the wheel was Barium Titanate BaTiO3 on the surface, and Barium sulfate BaSO4 on the inside insulation. The ball could have polarized surface charges when hit by an ultrasonic sound wave. This is sent from the inter- digital transducers placed in the pockets of each number. They send a wave to the ball that polarizes the surface with a negative charge. The spoon/ pocket of the number also negative; therefore the ball jumps out through electrostatic repulsion. Each number pocket is controlled by a transistor called IGBT. This transistor turn on the switch so that the pocket is negatively charged. The control room computer leaves the pockets that it wants the ball to go in neutral or off. This is all managed by the sophisticated software and computers. So that why you can see situation when the ball either gets pushed out violently or sucked into the exact to a number.

That would explain the above and be fairly simple to achieve the desired results

Yeah thats exactly what i thought as well lol.

 

[Daavid63]

so getting a bit techy now but hows about this for a theory...

If roulette balls were made of piezoeletric ceramic .The material used on the wheel was Barium Titanate BaTiO3 on the surface, and Barium sulfate BaSO4 on the inside insulation. The ball could have polarized surface charges when hit by an ultrasonic sound wave. This is sent from the inter- digital transducers placed in the pockets of each number. They send a wave to the ball that polarizes the surface with a negative charge. The spoon/ pocket of the number also negative; therefore the ball jumps out through electrostatic repulsion. Each number pocket is controlled by a transistor called IGBT. This transistor turn on the switch so that the pocket is negatively charged. The control room computer leaves the pockets that it wants the ball to go in neutral or off. This is all managed by the sophisticated software and computers. So that why you can see situation when the ball either gets pushed out violently or sucked into the exact to a number.

That would explain the above and be fairly simple to achieve the desired results

Good evening Sasukdcf,
Obviously you are the head shed at Evo games, thanks for the intel ??

 

[Sasukdcf]

Good evening Sasukdcf,
Obviously you are the head shed at Evo games, thanks for the intel ??

damn .....sprung !!!

 

[Sasukdcf]

I AM an ex Playtech employee and I was dispatched under some pretty questionable circumstances.

Don't get me wrong, they do a lot of shady stuff (like most businesses). Minimizing tax, questionable acquisitions using company capital etc etc, but the point is, it's all LEGAL questionable stuff.

There was nothing I ever saw or built, or no conversation I ever had that pertained to rigging games. It just wasn't on the agenda. Quite the contrary, a LOT of money and effort is spent on adhering to the regulations.

'Greed' simply isn't a good enough reason for what is being suggested. There are plenty of other, legal, ways to be greedy in business that don't put your entire business at risk.

I would expect that it depends how high up the food chain you are as to what intel you are fed, and obviously anything thats "suspect" is going to be for limited eyes and ears, But that said..... how does it put their business at risk when those that regulate it are morons.

The latest issue I have had with Jackpot Joy (Difeferent thread) who trade as being whiter than white and yet have blatently lied to me " without any doubt or Grey area just a bold lie " and yet despite trying and having all the chats and emails and the like, and refusing their "goodwill gesture" out of principle for the hundreds/ thousands of players involved in the issue.... Im now at Deadlock letter stage with them and cant get anywhere with GC or Ecogra that I can see it though to a conclusion because NO ONE CARES even though JPJ would have made thousands and thousands of pounds of extra money from a game that was on their site for 48 hours and was broken!! and despite telling them the previous day they kept it on for another 24 hours with everyone having the same issue....

and if you watched any of the links I posted with BLATENT ball irregularities.... no one does anything about them....

explain them??

 

[aceking123]

I would expect that it depends how high up the food chain you are as to what intel you are fed, and obviously anything thats "suspect" is going to be for limited eyes and ears, But that said..... how does it put their business at risk when those that regulate it are morons.

The latest issue I have had with Jackpot Joy (Difeferent thread) who trade as being whiter than white and yet have blatently lied to me " without any doubt or Grey area just a bold lie " and yet despite trying and having all the chats and emails and the like, and refusing their "goodwill gesture" out of principle for the hundreds/ thousands of players involved in the issue.... Im now at Deadlock letter stage with them and cant get anywhere with GC or Ecogra that I can see it though to a conclusion because NO ONE CARES even though JPJ would have made thousands and thousands of pounds of extra money from a game that was on their site for 48 hours and was broken!! and despite telling them the previous day they kept it on for another 24 hours with everyone having the same issue....

and if you watched any of the links I posted with BLATENT ball irregularities.... no one does anything about them....

explain them??

Your not going to get any answers to it though, if any player that could provide details of games being bent, would open the flood gates to every user demanding back the used funds on games.

We've seen a few games being pulled for errors, not always in the favour of the casinos, though the so called providers & test houses didn't pick up the errors, players did pick up on it & would of abused it.

Regards live I'm with you on it, I know Neil has said he's been & checked out the wheel show games but I'm sure he would of been shown a different set up of the wheel, meaning I firmly believe that they may have 3 or 4 of the same studio set ups, there is no way those game shows are not set up to meet bang on RTP%. Glorified slot in disguise.

Not a true live event as which you believe in the case, far to many videos showing dynamics & gravity defined movements of the ball, I could I few videos a few years ago to where to ball sat in between 3 & 26 number pockets perfectly balanced & never fell into either pocket.