DoA Advantage Play Explained

[jackanory2279]

Thought this may be the best topic to post an observation.

After having played thousands of spins, you can tell when the game is going to pay in normal play.

If the first reel does an extra turn, you have a winning spin. If it lands normal you're not going to win, even if one scatter symbol appears on any of the first lines.

that machines horrible.. if you dont hit a 5 grand feature you hit a 90p feature...

 

[citizenx]

that machines horrible.. if you dont hit a 5 grand feature you hit a 90p feature...

Mostly the latter in the last few days!

 

[JackMack]

It always makes me chuckle when the affiliates post on here mocking the idea that the slots are not purely random (not as in 5 random stop positions and the result is whatever the result is) when the evidence is 100% that they are weighted.
There are too many games to mention all software where the bonus and wild symbols visually and statistically disappear from the reels.
Even new releases like the MG Chef game the scatters disappear on some reels for a while (you will never see them go past nor will they hit)
Also when the game slag and we get those long spins where we cans see full cycles of the reel layouts it is undeniable and obvious - sometimes the reels are longer as well with extra symbols. I have no idea why this should be visually represented though instead of just weighting the stop positions as with 3 reel slots.
It may have something to do with licensing requirements.
Also no doubt they maintain a random element but also no way do you have the same possibilities of a win each spin.
The actual TRTP may be tied to the reels and paytable but they are not bound by them. What I mean by that is that the reel layouts are a rough visual representation of the TRTP and not that the TRTP is a mathematical result of the visual representation of the symbols and the paytable.

The visuals are irrelevant and they could be just 12 symbols long instead of 100 and play exactly the same way only people would get uppity because they would know the stop positions are really just representation of the result of that "lottery draw"
Oddly this doesn't seem to bother people on 3 reel slots though, especially those that have bonus rounds where the weighting is very conspicuous.
ie a reel maybe 20 symbols long and a scatter on win line of last reel triggers a bonus but you will always see the bonus symbol 1 below or 1 above because the bonus symbol is "weighted" to have 1 in 150 chance or whatever and not a 1 in 20 chance.

None of that means the game are rigged or not set to the TRTP as advertised but it does mean they can be hot and cold because the variance is not natural but manufactured which is why bonus giving scatter symbols especially will literally vanish sometimes and others they will be flying in every spin (until the bonus is triggered or the algorithm that controls that aspect of the variance is switched)

No cats, no tinfoil hats, just basic programming geared toward the needs of the client (Casino)

 

[goatwack]

It always makes me chuckle when the affiliates post on here mocking the idea that the slots are not purely random (not as in 5 random stop positions and the result is whatever the result is) when the evidence is 100% that they are weighted.
There are too many games to mention all software where the bonus and wild symbols visually and statistically disappear from the reels.
Even new releases like the MG Chef game the scatters disappear on some reels for a while (you will never see them go past nor will they hit)
Also when the game slag and we get those long spins where we cans see full cycles of the reel layouts it is undeniable and obvious - sometimes the reels are longer as well with extra symbols. I have no idea why this should be visually represented though instead of just weighting the stop positions as with 3 reel slots.
It may have something to do with licensing requirements.
Also no doubt they maintain a random element but also no way do you have the same possibilities of a win each spin.
The actual TRTP may be tied to the reels and paytable but they are not bound by them. What I mean by that is that the reel layouts are a rough visual representation of the TRTP and not that the TRTP is a mathematical result of the visual representation of the symbols and the paytable.

The visuals are irrelevant and they could be just 12 symbols long instead of 100 and play exactly the same way only people would get uppity because they would know the stop positions are really just representation of the result of that "lottery draw"
Oddly this doesn't seem to bother people on 3 reel slots though, especially those that have bonus rounds where the weighting is very conspicuous.
ie a reel maybe 20 symbols long and a scatter on win line of last reel triggers a bonus but you will always see the bonus symbol 1 below or 1 above because the bonus symbol is "weighted" to have 1 in 150 chance or whatever and not a 1 in 20 chance.

None of that means the game are rigged or not set to the TRTP as advertised but it does mean they can be hot and cold because the variance is not natural but manufactured which is why bonus giving scatter symbols especially will literally vanish sometimes and others they will be flying in every spin (until the bonus is triggered or the algorithm that controls that aspect of the variance is switched)

No cats, no tinfoil hats, just basic programming geared toward the needs of the client (Casino)

Great so now you've blown their cover and revealed casinos' secrets, and a hit is out on you!

But the best reward they could come up with is unfortunately is 20 free spins on Starburst, tight bastards

You live another day:eat:

 

[JackMack]

Great so now you've blown their cover and revealed casinos' secrets, and a hit is out on you!

But the best reward they could come up with is unfortunately is 20 free spins on Starburst, tight bastards

You live another day:eat:

Woohoo!

No need to blow anyone's cover though, it is in plain view as I have explained and in accordance with licensing laws.

 

[interlog]

I have no idea how exactly the machines are programmed, but logic tells me that the second you press the spin button the outcome is known. The result can be presented in different ways, whether that is a massive reel win or a bonus round with the same monetary result.

So basically, it is about the presentation of the result. The more exciting that presentation is (ie bonus rounds) the more likely a player will go back to the machine. The fact you've a bonus round can be very exiting because you may be in for the big one.

 

[Adriana B]

I have no idea how exactly the machines are programmed, but logic tells me that the second you press the spin button the outcome is known. The result can be presented in different ways, whether that is a massive reel win or a bonus round with the same monetary result.

So basically, it is about the presentation of the result. The more exciting that presentation is (ie bonus rounds) the more likely a player will go back to the machine. The fact you've a bonus round can be very exiting because you may be in for the big one.[/QU

Although yesterday I hit bonus rounds twice and only got a couple of dollars each time. Kept playing thinking that it was bonus round friendly. NOT!

 

[interlog]

Although yesterday I hit bonus rounds twice and only got a couple of dollars each time. Kept playing thinking that it was bonus round friendly. NOT!

I had bonus rounds that paid no further than the pay for 3 scatters. But I have equally had bonus rounds paying well over 400 x bet.

When that bonus round drops, you know you MAY be in for the big one. That's the reason they have them and occasionally drop them in.

 

[gagamel]

When you spin the button the result of your spin is clear. It doesn`t matter how long your spin needs and what you see, it`s eye candy, just for entertaining. Or do you really want to see after a spin:

Here is your result--> RNG 1458745215235 which means you lost 100% of your bet. Please try again

I have no worries about the random of any major provider because sometimes I win more than 1000x my bet and then I have long cold streaks. In the long run I will have my TRTP which means I lose.

That`s the nature of the game.

 

[Jono777]

I have no idea how exactly the machines are programmed, but logic tells me that the second you press the spin button the outcome is known. The result can be presented in different ways, whether that is a massive reel win or a bonus round with the same monetary result.

So basically, it is about the presentation of the result. The more exciting that presentation is (ie bonus rounds) the more likely a player will go back to the machine. The fact you've a bonus round can be very exiting because you may be in for the big one.

The reels and symbols are just 'eye candy' and yep the result is known.

I had a nice £10 appear in balance earlier before reels had even started spinning - said to wife 'Here come the 5 Sheriff badges'

Guess the EM lag helps a little too

 

[rshkrn]

I don't think it's nonsense, and turning €975 into €11,236 in less than a week is no joke for me at least! It was an experiment that I tried and those are the results. Why I posted this thread in the 'Slots Discussion' section

A lot of people have commented over the years that DoA feels different than usual slots, it's one of only a handful of slots online that have special terms and conditions applied to it. I have never tried this technique before, so was interested in the results of upping my bet when the game appeared to be paying better, and betting less when it wasn't.

I am afraid it was pure luck and nothing else....

If you put in the right volume in DOA, you will eventually hit the 5 scatters or wildline....period, nothing to do with running hot or wild

 

[jumboshrimp]

Any insights by Nicola on this great game are well appreciated by me
A lot of people have asked her about this game and she took the time to answer.

 

[Balthazar]

Any insights by Nicola on this great game are well appreciated by me
A lot of people have asked her about this game and she took the time to answer.

Except that this thread is extremely misleading (and potentially harmful) because it implies that games aren't random. I know that Nicola posted it in good faith though.

 

[ugaboga]

bgo.com admitted that they removed DoA for 'commercial' reasons. That suggests the game has potential to lose them a lot of money.

If it's totally random and set to a fixed payout %, why did they remove it for 'commercial' reasons?

 

[Batman]

bgo.com admitted that they removed DoA for 'commercial' reasons. That suggests the game has potential to lose them a lot of money.

If it's totally random and set to a fixed payout %, why did they remove it for 'commercial' reasons?

The payout refers at a long term payout of the slot;
You may have a 150% payout this month, and a 50% payout next month...
They probably won't take that risk...

 

[Finn]

bgo.com admitted that they removed DoA for 'commercial' reasons. That suggests the game has potential to lose them a lot of money.

If it's totally random and set to a fixed payout %, why did they remove it for 'commercial' reasons?

Wagering requirements for a bonus expire when you go bust. Because of this, any high risk strategy that results in going bust fast or shooting high up, any this kind of strategy lowers your average wagering completion, resulting in higher expected average gains.

High risk and going either bust relatively fast with minimal completion of wagering or shooting up high might come either from high stake sizes or high variance.

High risk strategies based on stake sizes of 25-100% of bonus size are banned by majority of casinos. DoA has gotten pretty famous for it's capability to deliver 2k times the stake size or higher hits. I think it gets singled out due to it's high variance, because of this some casinos either ban playing it with bonus money, or make it contribute less to the wagering.

DoA has both high variance and high RTP, 96.8%.

For 96.8% RTP, the break even wagering is 31.25. Because of DoA's high variance, taking advantage of the fact that wagering requirements expire when going bust, it is probably very easy to get average wagering completion of below that 31.25 with 35-40 wagering requirements, even with x50 wagering and the usual stake size restrictions it might be doable.

 

[Wild Reels]

the actions of 1 casino doesn't add any validity to this thread, especially when bgo have pulled other games in the past temporarily to investigate them, they are entitled to do that but it doesn't add any weight to this thread

What about the other 1000 casinos that still have DOA running, they must be stupid running a slot machine that opens to exploitation if it contains a way to guarantee winning massive amounts of money every single time you play it.

I went over 1 year without a wild line, then managed to get about 6 or 7 in a short period of time, taking bonuses and hammering casinos was my secret or perseverance.

ive had £100 sessions that haven't given 1 bonus round, sessions that lasted 5 hours that gave over 25+ bonus rounds with no wild line win, and sessions that lasted 5 mins that gave a wild line win, and a mix of all of these outcomes in between.

Rolastan would probably be the best person to have spotted any patterns in the slot with over 140 wild line wins, and from their screenshots they still maintain the same stakes now that they did back at the start,

unfortunately whilst this thread was made with the best intentions people are always looking for the holy grail of slot emptiers, and we've seen a few recently where the slots were malfunctioning and quickly fixed.

are people going to be now betting normally stake wise spot a "pattern" and then bust out in 5 mins later when they raised the stakes to stupidly high levels ?

 

[goatwack]

the actions of 1 casino doesn't add any validity to this thread, especially when bgo have pulled other games in the past temporarily to investigate them, they are entitled to do that but it doesn't add any weight to this thread

What about the other 1000 casinos that still have DOA running, they must be stupid running a slot machine that opens to exploitation if it contains a way to guarantee winning massive amounts of money every single time you play it.

I went over 1 year without a wild line, then managed to get about 6 or 7 in a short period of time, taking bonuses and hammering casinos was my secret or perseverance.

ive had £100 sessions that haven't given 1 bonus round, sessions that lasted 5 hours that gave over 25+ bonus rounds with no wild line win, and sessions that lasted 5 mins that gave a wild line win, and a mix of all of these outcomes in between.

Rolastan would probably be the best person to have spotted any patterns in the slot with over 140 wild line wins, and from their screenshots they still maintain the same stakes now that they did back at the start,

unfortunately whilst this thread was made with the best intentions people are always looking for the holy grail of slot emptiers, and we've seen a few recently where the slots were malfunctioning and quickly fixed.

are people going to be now betting normally stake wise spot a "pattern" and then bust out in 5 mins later when they raised the stakes to stupidly high levels ?

My best streak on DoA resulted in 2 wildlines out of 3 bonus rounds, both with several spins to go and the additional 5 spins as well.

This in turn led to £25 turning into £1200. I had upped bets after the first good bonus round to about 90p a spin (!).

So now sitting at 1200 I'm sure most would have gone on to up bets to 3.60+ a spin but let's be honest here, that was all she wrote. Had this been bonus money then I would have gone hell for leather so I'm not surprised casinos quake with fear at the mention of this slot.

I knew where to draw the line with this streak, I think to insinuate that patterns can be detected on a slot like this is outright bad advice and dangerous. It is also easy to dish out wisdom when having a larger bankroll to justify one's own crazy experiments, chances are most that play this game will have extremely modest budgets.

I think the only advantage play to be had on this game is to know when to refrain from chasing that impossible hit and come back another time, ie when it's not brutalizing the player

 

[Adriana B]

WTH is up with this game

It almost seems like they felt too many people were winning on this game and they have pulled the plug. Unfortunately, before I could reap the benefits! Probably had 500 spins with nothing but losses. This game is dead to me for a long time.

 

[asm]

I am not going to point out anyone here because I am not here to argue or belittle anyone (or make anyone feel belittled that is), but some of you really lack the understanding about the mechanics of it all. It is all about random number generation. This random number will be just that...random. Regardless of your bet size, the physical time in your house when you place the bet, or are you just feeling lucky.

I think if you refute the idea that most of the things this forum deals with are purely random and you cannot effect it, and if you believe that you are being swindled or "rewarded" by software providers and front ends that manipulate results, you're definitely in the wrong place and should stop immediately.


PS. A random number generated with a .09€ wager would be a different number when generated inside the same session, only upping the bet to 7.2€. That's because the random number generated was generated in different conditions, being nevertheless absolutely random (like the first number). Complicated I know, but that's the best I can do

 

[brianmon]

PS. A random number generated with a .09€ wager would be a different number when generated inside the same session, only upping the bet to 7.2€. That's because the random number generated was generated in different conditions, being nevertheless absolutely random (like the first number). Complicated I know, but that's the best I can do

What conditions could have changed? If you pressed the spin button at 9p stake, at EXACTLY the same micro second as you pressed it after changing to 7.2 you'd more than likely get the same number since Netent, and therefore DOA use a pseudo-random number generator rather than a 'real' RNG. The numbers are generated mathematically from algorithms rather than from something completely random like a pure white noise source

 

[spintee]

What conditions could have changed? If you pressed the spin button at 9p stake, at EXACTLY the same micro second as you pressed it after changing to 7.2 you'd more than likely get the same number since Netent, and therefore DOA use a pseudo-random number generator rather than a 'real' RNG. The numbers are generated mathematically from algorithms rather than from something completely random like a pure white noise source

I believe all presses have there own RGN, If you was at £1p a spin & went to £20 it would be a different out come, I have tried and tested, NO WAY I can prove it but does make sense to keep the RTP on a steady basis,,

I got nearly 3k of a 30p bet, if I was playing £30 a spin do you reckon it would of drooped 300k that would wipe most casino's out?

Only reason I say is I always have 100 - 500 times bet on small roll, If I was big rolling than would of took casinos out, I have been well over 10 deposit and 400 - 400 in bank roll, You times my deposit x 10 and pay out than a few players could wipe a casino

 

[Jono777]

I since found out that DOA features and whether you get a wild line or not is dependent upon how many bullets are in the 'chambers' of the triggering pistols, if its a 'prime number' you get a wild line if not your SOL!

 

[asm]

What conditions could have changed? If you pressed the spin button at 9p stake, at EXACTLY the same micro second as you pressed it after changing to 7.2 you'd more than likely get the same number since Netent, and therefore DOA use a pseudo-random number generator rather than a 'real' RNG. The numbers are generated mathematically from algorithms rather than from something completely random like a pure white noise source

You kind of answered your own question. You can't time it the same way. I wouldn't understand or know does it work with milliseconds, even if you did not change the wager and tried there is absolutely no way you can time spins in meaningful intervals even if you believed there is a pattern. While you're busy changing the wager, about 2 seconds (2 million microseconds) pass.

It's pure chance. It's just a different chance.

 

[brianmon]

You kind of answered your own question. You can't time it the same way. I wouldn't understand or know does it work with milliseconds, even if you did not change the wager and tried there is absolutely no way you can time spins in meaningful intervals even if you believed there is a pattern. While you're busy changing the wager, about 2 seconds (2 million microseconds) pass.

It's pure chance. It's just a different chance.

I'm NOT saying that you could choose to press spin at the EXACT time.
I'm say that if you did happen to, then the random number would most likely be the same number whatever you stake happened to be. since they use a pseudo RNG, rather than a true RNG