Deposited £74.9k at VideoSlots while SE

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
It's only a deterrent if people think they might get caught and punished in a way that would negatively affect them. Like speeding, people speed as they know the chances of getting caught are low, and if they do it's a £100 fine, 3 points (that don't affect anything) or 4 hours on a speeding course. Watch speeding disappear overnight if instead of what it is now, anyone caught got 10 years in prison and there were cops on every street with speed guns.
Same with this, people would know it wouldn't get investigated so nothing would happen, so they wouldn't care.

Don't still see any harm on reporting these, some might don't want even that happening. If somebody would try to scam me with forged documents, i would report it even it would be 99.89% sure that it wouldn't get investigated. Assume police would need to take that report even they wouldn't actually do anything further.
 

arw5533

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Location
Somewhere only I know
Hopefully OP wouldn't fiddle Gamstop details.

I can say that I have tried many, many times to sign up while on Gamstop to this site and always got rejected.

In reality if your blowing money while SE then rightfully you should accept responsibillity especially as the site referenced has UKGC licensing and Gamstop. I blew money on scam casinos while at a low point as I can't sign up to UK regulated sites till 2023 that is how strong this system has been at keeping me off this and other sites.

I think something is missing here or OP isn't being entirely open. This post reminds me of how as a problem gamer I felt when I reached the low of dragon chasing and blowing all my money...winning nothing or blowing it back and wishing I could get it back.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
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Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Of course, the postcode system is not infallible. It's not always fully up to date, and can be entirely wrong.

When I moved to my current house I had to spend several hours of back and forth emails to get Tesco to deliver here. Apparently my house (which has stood for around a century) does not exist on their copy of the database.

Manual entry is the only way around it.
yes but thats a very small minority of properties, plus are you sure it the was the royal mail one? I had that sort of problem with a few companies where the postcode wouldn't pull my address up, but when I checked the code they were using, it wasn't connecting to the royal mail one, they were using a third party one. If it was ok elsewhere then Tesco probably weren't using Royal Mail. I think I had problems with HSBC, certainly it was one of the main banks.

Thats where manual checking before a deposit comes in though. Postcode can't be found, someone manually checks the ID, searches for SE etc.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Don't still see any harm on reporting these, some might don't want even that happening. If somebody would try to scam me with forged documents, i would report it even it would be 99.89% sure that it wouldn't get investigated. Assume police would need to take that report even they wouldn't actually do anything further.
Yes, but it would be the casino reporting it. So you have the added problem of it being cross borders. Plus, lets take this case at face value for a second, in the OP there are 74000 reasons why most casinos wouldn't go to the trouble of doing so.
 

Gaz237

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
May 8, 2014
Location
chelmsford UK
Theres no chance at all of the police in the UK getting involved in that, they barely investigate burglary's, car theft, and don't investigate credit card fraud unless the bank asks them to.

Ive said it in other threads, but making use of the royal mail postcode look up service would likely cut out most SE fraud.
Make it mandatory for all casinos & gamstop to use it on registration, and pre fill the address details based on that.
It stops anyone changing the way the address is formatted. Anyone attempting to scam will know they need to go through KYC/verification checks, so know they have no chance if they input the wrong postcode or house number. It does prevent them inputting a house number as 1 1 rather than 11 though.
The average size of a postcode area in the UK is 15 properties. If an active SE is detected in your postcode area then you have to provide ID before being allowed to deposit.which is then checked against the actual SE database to confirm you aren't the same person. Or surname and postcode to reduce the false positives.

I'm sure there would be the odd false positive, but being honest, how many active self exclusions are there likely to be in 15 houses next to each other, or going the extra step, how many who share the same surname as the non excluded customer.

One rep mentioned the cost was prohibitive for a small casino, but its around 0.5p per lookup (half pence). I don't believe even the smallest casino can't afford that. If it saves them say £250 they would otherwise have to pay a scammer back, that £250 would pay for 50,000 postocde lookups.

It's bloody hard work to get a crime reference number out of them.

They don't like giving them out as it not good for their yearly figures.

I live out on a peninsular, between the river Crouch and the river Blackwater. Nearest police station is over 1 hour away

But fair play to the police, they post sat nav tracking of the route they took the night before :rolleyes: and I feel very assured that they drivethoughmy village at 3am regularly, so at least the criminals know it's open house. On the plus side they often drop me home from the pub. (or used to)
 
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Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
OP has not been back here for some days, has not submitted a PAB, nor has he posted that he's going the official VS complaint route. Now, if someone is really determined to get 70K / 25K or whatever back, there would be more activity.

I did, as usual, some investigations and a few things do not add up, nor do they seem kosher. Won't post everything that I found as it could serve as a warning.

A few things though. As per his screenshot, he GAMSTOPed on 11th April 2020.

- Funny that the OP took screenshots of the RTPs on 11th April and total deposits/withdrawals on 12th April 2020. Why would you do that (especially the deposits/withdrawals stats) if you know that you activated GAMSTOP on 11th April other than setting up a GAMSTOP con?
- The pic for the deposits/withdrawals shows the start date set for 1st Nov 2017, some two years earlier than him actually creating the account. Now, if you really want to prove a case 100%, you enter the month you actually made the first deposit. Yet he covered that up by entering a random date.
- He claimed he was able to open an account while still on the old GAMSTOP which expired on 5th September 2019. Yet his screenshot for the RTP are all dated November 2019 or later. Also, the "from" date is 14th October 2019, over a month after the old GAMSTOP allegedly expired.
- To the left is my current RTP screen for the last six months, to the right his. You can see mine is well mixed throughout the months, his are all from November 2019. Coincidence? Maybe but rather improbable and unusual if you play quite a few games and battles over the months.

1592115395330.png
 
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pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Wouldn't like to ask Harry for a lend of a tenner:

- So, i contacted HMRC to determine your taxable income. Taking into account average food spends and the current interest rates and, following a review of Equifax and ur commitments, I have came to the conclusion you have 200 pounds in disposable income. So why the tenner? Fuel spends are down, mortgage holidays are in place for covid-19?

Oh ffs Harry, you got me, it's for Bonanza.
 

ladyhawke

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Location
Here, There, Everywhere.
Bit of an update today as I got in touch with a alternative dispute resolution service and they had a look through my case and set out the path for me to resolve the issue, hopefully on my own.
Can someone who understands how the ADR process works, please explain something to me?

If you contact an ADR, would they not take control of the situation from start to finish, not just give you a few pointers on how to proceed, and then leave you to it, which is what the OP appears to be saying.

And as @Harry_BKK has pointed out: OP […] has not submitted a PAB, nor has he posted that he's going the official VS complaint route.

For the amount of money at stake, why would the OP come here to CM for advice/help, then ignore the PAB process, ignore VS's official complaint route, and go directly to an ADR which apparently has nothing to do with VS?

The State of Denmark springs to mind.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
A few things though. As per his screenshot, he GAMSTOPed on 11th April 2020.

- Funny that the OP took screenshots of the RTPs on 11th April and total deposits/withdrawals on 12th April 2020. Why would you do that (especially the deposits/withdrawals stats) if you know that you activated GAMSTOP on 11th April other than setting up a GAMSTOP con?
- The pic for the deposits/withdrawals shows the start date set for 1st Nov 2017, some two years earlier than him actually creating the account. Now, if you really want to prove a case 100%, you enter the month you actually made the first deposit. Yet he covered that up by entering a random date.
- He claimed he was able to open an account while still on the old GAMSTOP which expired on 5th September 2019. Yet his screenshot for the RTP are all dated November 2019 or later. Also, the "from" date is 14th October 2019, over a month after the old GAMSTOP allegedly expired.

Just playing devils advocate here, but, Videoslots confirmed he set up the account and it has been active since early 2019. At that point the old GS SE was still in force, and assuming the details were the same and on the VS account, he shouldn't have been playing at that point. I don't see what his screenshots being dated later prove, as VS confirmed the account opening date.

How did he login on the 12th to take screenshots, if the GS SE started on the 11th? The login should have been blocked surely?

Regarding the ADR, I wouldn't use one against Videoslots either, remember that case where they lost then refused to comply, which was against their own terms and conditions.
Unless its changed, ADR's don't look at SE cases anyway do they?
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Just playing devils advocate here, but, Videoslots confirmed he set up the account and it has been active since early 2019. At that point the old GS SE was still in force, and assuming the details were the same and on the VS account, he shouldn't have been playing at that point. I don't see what his screenshots being dated later prove, as VS confirmed the account opening date.

How did he login on the 12th to take screenshots, if the GS SE started on the 11th? The login should have been blocked surely?

Oh yes, the GAMSTOP pic. :rolleyes: :D

Why has he not submitted his complete GAMSTOP records to VS? That would clear everything up if all is so super-kosher, wouldn't it? :what:

Also, he has not confirmed whether all details on GAMSTOP and VS match other than name and DOB. GAMSTOP works on 4/6 minimum IIRC. 2/6 would not be flagged.

VS did not confirm the exact date and "early 2019" could be a translation error from a non-native person.

AFAIK, GAMSTOP is not instant when you register, it will take some hours or a day for the database to update. According to the pic, he set it up on 11th April late evening, the screenshot from the 12th April could have been made at 00:01am.
 
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Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Can someone who understands how the ADR process works, please explain something to me? If you contact an ADR, would they not take control of the situation from start to finish, not just give you a few pointers on how to proceed, and then leave you to it, which is what the OP appears to be saying.

For the amount of money at stake, why would the OP come here to CM for advice/help, then ignore the PAB process, ignore VS's official complaint route, and go directly to an ADR which apparently has nothing to do with VS?

The State of Denmark springs to mind.

Because this case has all the hallmarks of a GAMSTOP con. There are plenty of closed forums where people exchange tricks and ways to exploit the apparent GAMSTOP flaws and loopholes.

He was asked numerous times if all details between GAMSTOP and VS match. His answer was always: name and DOB.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Oh yes, the GAMSTOP pic. :rolleyes: :D

Why has he not submitted his complete GAMSTOP records to VS? That would clear everything up if all is so super-kosher, wouldn't it? :what:

Also, he has not confirmed whether all details on GAMSTOP and VS match other than name and DOB. GAMSTOP works on 4/6 minimum IIRC. 2/6 would not be flagged.

VS did not confirm the exact date and "early 2019" could be a translation error from a non-native person.

AFAIK, GAMSTOP is not instant when you register, it will take some hours or a day for the database to update. According to the pic, he set it up on 11th April late evening, the screenshot from the 12th April could have been made at 00:01am.

As I say, just playing devils advocate - I don't believe the OP either :)
The fact he hasn't answered my question about the address when I've asked twice, says it all to me.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
If there is genuine wrongdoing from the casino in terms of exclusions then he has to go straight to the UKGC. They may take some time but will deal with it from a regulatory perspective and the result would be a return of net losses if any wrongdoing found. It's not out with the realms of possibility that a casino had issues with SE prior to the rule change last year. It's been highlighted than numerous casinos had problems before that, although VS was not one that was flagged.
 

videoslotheaven

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Location
Slot heaven
They are obliged to refund his net loss.. I self exlcuded from some sites and a year or so later i changed email due to severe spam. I signed up with a casino unknowingly withing the same group.

Won 3k euros. Withdrew. It took a while for them to approve and suddenly i got a mail saying my account is closed due to self exclusion on sister sistes. They paid my winnings PLUSS the losses on the other sites exeption being sites that i had positive net proffit on. No hassle, they didd this on their own initiative. Saying their system was flawed as it is supposed to pick up name,dob and such not just email.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
They are obliged to refund his net loss.. I self exlcuded from some sites and a year or so later i changed email due to severe spam. I signed up with a casino unknowingly withing the same group.

Won 3k euros. Withdrew. It took a while for them to approve and suddenly i got a mail saying my account is closed due to self exclusion on sister sistes. They paid my winnings PLUSS the losses on the other sites exeption being sites that i had positive net proffit on. No hassle, they didd this on their own initiative. Saying their system was flawed as it is supposed to pick up name,dob and such not just email.

"Obliged" my *ss. :rolleyes:

Please point to the paragraph in the LCCP where it says casinos need to refund losses when people try to fraudulently circumvent GAMSTOP or other SE's.

The UK is rife in fraudulent activity with regards to this malarkey. Casino operators employ entire departments just to detect and combat the fraud.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
"Obliged" my *ss. :rolleyes:

Please point to the paragraph in the LCCP where it says casinos need to refund losses when people try to fraudulently circumvent GAMSTOP or other SE's.

The UK is rife in fraudulent activity with regards to this malarkey. Casino operators employ entire departments just to detect and combat the fraud.

The poster has put it in down in a slightly dubious way. However, with the change to LCCP around verification there should be no way a player can get round it. Specifically the part added in LCCP around verification before the player is allowed to gamble of, at least, the following.

Name, date of birth, address as a minimum BEFORE being allowed to gamble. If its electronic matching it's the voters roll/credit file search. Casinos also must track with Gamstop and their own SE register. If its manual verification then it's much the same. That's all clear in LCCP so there should be no scope for it unless a player is using fraudulent documents which is of course into the realms of a criminal act.

Reality is, some casinos havent retrospectively applied these rules and players who signed up years ago may be their risk.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
The poster has put it in down in a slightly dubious way. However, with the change to LCCP around verification there should be no way a player can get round it. Specifically the part added in LCCP around verification before the player is allowed to gamble of, at least, the following.

Name, date of birth, address as a minimum BEFORE being allowed to gamble. If its electronic matching it's the voters roll/credit file search. Casinos also must track with Gamstop and their own SE register. If its manual verification then it's much the same. That's all clear in LCCP so there should be no scope for it unless a player is using fraudulent documents which is of course into the realms of a criminal act.

Reality is, some casinos havent retrospectively applied these rules and players who signed up years ago may be their risk.

Yes, agree it should not be possible.

Still, the LCCP has no clear wording that says: "Operators must return deposits or refund losses." At least, the last time I checked, which is a few months ago. It is just something that has become the norm and is wildely exploited by fraudsters and addicts.
 

videoslotheaven

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Location
Slot heaven
Why would they do this then? I was not even aware. Never asked for my deposits back. This was a Malta site.

They could have just paid me and let me play on there without refunding and closing the accounts. 1700 in losses they paid me on top of the 3k winnings.
 
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