Deposited £74.9k at VideoSlots while SE

deepsky2

One more spin
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Location
toronto ontario canada
Personally I think the poster should take personal responsibility for their own financial decisions win or lose. These type of complaints just give anti-gambling regulators more ammunition for tougher regulations that end up spoiling it for everyone.
I agree and if he won it would of been another story Im sure it wouldn't be posted. This kind of stuff ruins it for others and if Videoslots have to pay this back get ready for further rtp reductions!
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
My dear CMers, do you realize how in all these SE cases, which mostly turn out not to be true, we are served bits and pieces of info that only supports the OP case. We are used as props to try and exert pressure on a casino.

We should refuse to give any advice until the OP has shown all parts of how the story unfolded. Posting a screenshot with transactions to Trustly made me laugh, TBH. That money could have gone to thousands of other merchants.

I wonder what the real story this time will be. I have a good hunch but won't say anything just in case as it could be a warning. Addicts will try anything to get money.
 

Tango82

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 4, 2020
Location
London, England
Bit of an update today as I got in touch with a alternative dispute resolution service and they had a look through my case and set out the path for me to resolve the issue, hopefully on my own.

As per my original post, I was self-excluded at Videoslots in 2016 for 5 years (expires 2021) and an old e-mail confirm this and backed-up by Naomi who works at Videoslots customer service recently.

It would seem the local exclusion at Videoslots holds more power in my complaint so I will be following the guidance set out in their complaints procedure.

Appreciate those who helped and sent me messages with advice. I will let you know how I get on.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Bit of an update today as I got in touch with a alternative dispute resolution service and they had a look through my case and set out the path for me to resolve the issue, hopefully on my own.

As per my original post, I was self-excluded at Videoslots in 2016 for 5 years (expires 2021) and an old e-mail confirm this and backed-up by Naomi who works at Videoslots customer service recently.

It would seem the local exclusion at Videoslots holds more power in my complaint so I will be following the guidance set out in their complaints procedure.

Appreciate those who helped and sent me messages with advice. I will let you know how I get on.

I'm sorry but you still haven't replied to pretty much the most important question.
Is your address the same as the one you excluded on, especially on your previous account?
If it's not, then I don't see what Videoslots have done wrong.
Certainly your email was different, as it picks that up before you even start registering.

Having said that, Videoslots have stated you were playing from early 2019, which your gamstop registration clearly shows you were self excluded at that point. If your first account was also excluded (which wasn't confirmed or denied by VS on here) and the name, address and DOB match the new one, then you should get the money back, and I would hope you report this regulatory failure to the UKGC. If they don't do anything then the Guardian and Daily Mail love stories about problem gambling and hardships it causes, the UKGC tend to do something then.

Must say though, I'm still leaning towards Videoslots not having done anything wrong here, simply because you are still very selective in what you have said. So were Videoslots in their post, for example, they specifically stated the first account wasn't Gamstop excluded, which could suggest it being excluded locally, but the difference is, they have Data Protection laws to follow, so thats possibly understandable.
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
To me if there is a full name match and DOB with gamstop's database that should be enough to trigger a manual, more detailed check before allowing someone to gamble. The stringency of a manual check could be set at the same level as the SOW checks

The gamstop condition "You agree not to attempt to register new gambling accounts, log in to any of your existing accounts" seems absurd, if a user has the willpower to do that they don't need gamstop, or am I missing something?
 

Slottery

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
To me if there is a full name match and DOB with gamstop's database that should be enough to trigger a manual, more detailed check before allowing someone to gamble. The stringency of a manual check could be set at the same level as the SOW checks

The gamstop condition "You agree not to attempt to register new gambling accounts, log in to any of your existing accounts" seems absurd, if a user has the willpower to do that they don't need gamstop, or am I missing something?

That could be preventing some circumvent attempts, or at least make them to have one spelling mistake, use of middle name to top of current things. Would just need change for Gamstop where and what reply they send on login (possible match with block until player verified?), wouldn't huge amount of manual work but some of course (probably still less than now when going through these claims after managed to deposit and play).

In Sweden for PaynPlay casinos where you use your personal id for creating account, there are not many questions if details are right or not, but people ask 3rd parties to create accounts for them which for sure is less than adding slightly different details on registration.

I think that condition is good to be there, players don't AFAIK don't get refunds or anything rejected if their details are really matching, so it's good to state what they shouldn't be doing, at least it's mentioned there and people don't say they didn't know it's not cool to use fake details (like in US you find really weird things in some machines instructions, these legendary "Don't put cat to microwave" things to be there as some need everything to be covered and if it's not, it's not their fault, nobody told...

Casinos could also maybe reduce these photoshop claims by reporting forged Gamstop forms to police, not to get money about it or anything but maybe it would be less popular if you need to sort out these with their fraud department, can't see that is anyhow accidental anymore if you forge details to file you download from GS site. Dunno how it would be in practice but that could for some people save their deposits if they would have chance to end up to explain it to police (assuming that it's crime in UK to forge documents and make false claims based on that).
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Theres no chance at all of the police in the UK getting involved in that, they barely investigate burglary's, car theft, and don't investigate credit card fraud unless the bank asks them to.

Ive said it in other threads, but making use of the royal mail postcode look up service would likely cut out most SE fraud.
Make it mandatory for all casinos & gamstop to use it on registration, and pre fill the address details based on that.
It stops anyone changing the way the address is formatted. Anyone attempting to scam will know they need to go through KYC/verification checks, so know they have no chance if they input the wrong postcode or house number. It does prevent them inputting a house number as 1 1 rather than 11 though.
The average size of a postcode area in the UK is 15 properties. If an active SE is detected in your postcode area then you have to provide ID before being allowed to deposit.which is then checked against the actual SE database to confirm you aren't the same person. Or surname and postcode to reduce the false positives.

I'm sure there would be the odd false positive, but being honest, how many active self exclusions are there likely to be in 15 houses next to each other, or going the extra step, how many who share the same surname as the non excluded customer.

One rep mentioned the cost was prohibitive for a small casino, but its around 0.5p per lookup (half pence). I don't believe even the smallest casino can't afford that. If it saves them say £250 they would otherwise have to pay a scammer back, that £250 would pay for 50,000 postocde lookups.
 

Slottery

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Even not investigated (like these other examples mentioned), fraud could be reported. It's probably quite obvious case if you forge your GS form to show different details than it really have. Some could forget doing it if knowing these will be reported to police and Gamstop.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Even not investigated (like these other examples mentioned), fraud could be reported. It's probably quite obvious case if you forge your GS form to show different details than it really have. Some could forget doing it if knowing these will be reported to police and Gamstop.
It's only a deterrent if people think they might get caught and punished in a way that would negatively affect them. Like speeding, people speed as they know the chances of getting caught are low, and if they do it's a £100 fine, 3 points (that don't affect anything) or 4 hours on a speeding course. Watch speeding disappear overnight if instead of what it is now, anyone caught got 10 years in prison and there were cops on every street with speed guns.
Same with this, people would know it wouldn't get investigated so nothing would happen, so they wouldn't care.
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Of course, the postcode system is not infallible. It's not always fully up to date, and can be entirely wrong.

When I moved to my current house I had to spend several hours of back and forth emails to get Tesco to deliver here. Apparently my house (which has stood for around a century) does not exist on their copy of the database.

Manual entry is the only way around it.
 

Slottery

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
It's only a deterrent if people think they might get caught and punished in a way that would negatively affect them. Like speeding, people speed as they know the chances of getting caught are low, and if they do it's a £100 fine, 3 points (that don't affect anything) or 4 hours on a speeding course. Watch speeding disappear overnight if instead of what it is now, anyone caught got 10 years in prison and there were cops on every street with speed guns.
Same with this, people would know it wouldn't get investigated so nothing would happen, so they wouldn't care.

Don't still see any harm on reporting these, some might don't want even that happening. If somebody would try to scam me with forged documents, i would report it even it would be 99.89% sure that it wouldn't get investigated. Assume police would need to take that report even they wouldn't actually do anything further.
 

arw5533

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Location
Somewhere only I know
Hopefully OP wouldn't fiddle Gamstop details.

I can say that I have tried many, many times to sign up while on Gamstop to this site and always got rejected.

In reality if your blowing money while SE then rightfully you should accept responsibillity especially as the site referenced has UKGC licensing and Gamstop. I blew money on scam casinos while at a low point as I can't sign up to UK regulated sites till 2023 that is how strong this system has been at keeping me off this and other sites.

I think something is missing here or OP isn't being entirely open. This post reminds me of how as a problem gamer I felt when I reached the low of dragon chasing and blowing all my money...winning nothing or blowing it back and wishing I could get it back.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Of course, the postcode system is not infallible. It's not always fully up to date, and can be entirely wrong.

When I moved to my current house I had to spend several hours of back and forth emails to get Tesco to deliver here. Apparently my house (which has stood for around a century) does not exist on their copy of the database.

Manual entry is the only way around it.
yes but thats a very small minority of properties, plus are you sure it the was the royal mail one? I had that sort of problem with a few companies where the postcode wouldn't pull my address up, but when I checked the code they were using, it wasn't connecting to the royal mail one, they were using a third party one. If it was ok elsewhere then Tesco probably weren't using Royal Mail. I think I had problems with HSBC, certainly it was one of the main banks.

Thats where manual checking before a deposit comes in though. Postcode can't be found, someone manually checks the ID, searches for SE etc.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Don't still see any harm on reporting these, some might don't want even that happening. If somebody would try to scam me with forged documents, i would report it even it would be 99.89% sure that it wouldn't get investigated. Assume police would need to take that report even they wouldn't actually do anything further.
Yes, but it would be the casino reporting it. So you have the added problem of it being cross borders. Plus, lets take this case at face value for a second, in the OP there are 74000 reasons why most casinos wouldn't go to the trouble of doing so.
 

Gaz237

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
May 8, 2014
Location
chelmsford UK
Theres no chance at all of the police in the UK getting involved in that, they barely investigate burglary's, car theft, and don't investigate credit card fraud unless the bank asks them to.

Ive said it in other threads, but making use of the royal mail postcode look up service would likely cut out most SE fraud.
Make it mandatory for all casinos & gamstop to use it on registration, and pre fill the address details based on that.
It stops anyone changing the way the address is formatted. Anyone attempting to scam will know they need to go through KYC/verification checks, so know they have no chance if they input the wrong postcode or house number. It does prevent them inputting a house number as 1 1 rather than 11 though.
The average size of a postcode area in the UK is 15 properties. If an active SE is detected in your postcode area then you have to provide ID before being allowed to deposit.which is then checked against the actual SE database to confirm you aren't the same person. Or surname and postcode to reduce the false positives.

I'm sure there would be the odd false positive, but being honest, how many active self exclusions are there likely to be in 15 houses next to each other, or going the extra step, how many who share the same surname as the non excluded customer.

One rep mentioned the cost was prohibitive for a small casino, but its around 0.5p per lookup (half pence). I don't believe even the smallest casino can't afford that. If it saves them say £250 they would otherwise have to pay a scammer back, that £250 would pay for 50,000 postocde lookups.

It's bloody hard work to get a crime reference number out of them.

They don't like giving them out as it not good for their yearly figures.

I live out on a peninsular, between the river Crouch and the river Blackwater. Nearest police station is over 1 hour away

But fair play to the police, they post sat nav tracking of the route they took the night before :rolleyes: and I feel very assured that they drivethoughmy village at 3am regularly, so at least the criminals know it's open house. On the plus side they often drop me home from the pub. (or used to)
 
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Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
OP has not been back here for some days, has not submitted a PAB, nor has he posted that he's going the official VS complaint route. Now, if someone is really determined to get 70K / 25K or whatever back, there would be more activity.

I did, as usual, some investigations and a few things do not add up, nor do they seem kosher. Won't post everything that I found as it could serve as a warning.

A few things though. As per his screenshot, he GAMSTOPed on 11th April 2020.

- Funny that the OP took screenshots of the RTPs on 11th April and total deposits/withdrawals on 12th April 2020. Why would you do that (especially the deposits/withdrawals stats) if you know that you activated GAMSTOP on 11th April other than setting up a GAMSTOP con?
- The pic for the deposits/withdrawals shows the start date set for 1st Nov 2017, some two years earlier than him actually creating the account. Now, if you really want to prove a case 100%, you enter the month you actually made the first deposit. Yet he covered that up by entering a random date.
- He claimed he was able to open an account while still on the old GAMSTOP which expired on 5th September 2019. Yet his screenshot for the RTP are all dated November 2019 or later. Also, the "from" date is 14th October 2019, over a month after the old GAMSTOP allegedly expired.
- To the left is my current RTP screen for the last six months, to the right his. You can see mine is well mixed throughout the months, his are all from November 2019. Coincidence? Maybe but rather improbable and unusual if you play quite a few games and battles over the months.

1592115395330.png
 
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pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Wouldn't like to ask Harry for a lend of a tenner:

- So, i contacted HMRC to determine your taxable income. Taking into account average food spends and the current interest rates and, following a review of Equifax and ur commitments, I have came to the conclusion you have 200 pounds in disposable income. So why the tenner? Fuel spends are down, mortgage holidays are in place for covid-19?

Oh ffs Harry, you got me, it's for Bonanza.
 

ladyhawke

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Location
Here, There, Everywhere.
Bit of an update today as I got in touch with a alternative dispute resolution service and they had a look through my case and set out the path for me to resolve the issue, hopefully on my own.
Can someone who understands how the ADR process works, please explain something to me?

If you contact an ADR, would they not take control of the situation from start to finish, not just give you a few pointers on how to proceed, and then leave you to it, which is what the OP appears to be saying.

And as @Harry_BKK has pointed out: OP […] has not submitted a PAB, nor has he posted that he's going the official VS complaint route.

For the amount of money at stake, why would the OP come here to CM for advice/help, then ignore the PAB process, ignore VS's official complaint route, and go directly to an ADR which apparently has nothing to do with VS?

The State of Denmark springs to mind.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
A few things though. As per his screenshot, he GAMSTOPed on 11th April 2020.

- Funny that the OP took screenshots of the RTPs on 11th April and total deposits/withdrawals on 12th April 2020. Why would you do that (especially the deposits/withdrawals stats) if you know that you activated GAMSTOP on 11th April other than setting up a GAMSTOP con?
- The pic for the deposits/withdrawals shows the start date set for 1st Nov 2017, some two years earlier than him actually creating the account. Now, if you really want to prove a case 100%, you enter the month you actually made the first deposit. Yet he covered that up by entering a random date.
- He claimed he was able to open an account while still on the old GAMSTOP which expired on 5th September 2019. Yet his screenshot for the RTP are all dated November 2019 or later. Also, the "from" date is 14th October 2019, over a month after the old GAMSTOP allegedly expired.

Just playing devils advocate here, but, Videoslots confirmed he set up the account and it has been active since early 2019. At that point the old GS SE was still in force, and assuming the details were the same and on the VS account, he shouldn't have been playing at that point. I don't see what his screenshots being dated later prove, as VS confirmed the account opening date.

How did he login on the 12th to take screenshots, if the GS SE started on the 11th? The login should have been blocked surely?

Regarding the ADR, I wouldn't use one against Videoslots either, remember that case where they lost then refused to comply, which was against their own terms and conditions.
Unless its changed, ADR's don't look at SE cases anyway do they?
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Just playing devils advocate here, but, Videoslots confirmed he set up the account and it has been active since early 2019. At that point the old GS SE was still in force, and assuming the details were the same and on the VS account, he shouldn't have been playing at that point. I don't see what his screenshots being dated later prove, as VS confirmed the account opening date.

How did he login on the 12th to take screenshots, if the GS SE started on the 11th? The login should have been blocked surely?

Oh yes, the GAMSTOP pic. :rolleyes: :D

Why has he not submitted his complete GAMSTOP records to VS? That would clear everything up if all is so super-kosher, wouldn't it? :what:

Also, he has not confirmed whether all details on GAMSTOP and VS match other than name and DOB. GAMSTOP works on 4/6 minimum IIRC. 2/6 would not be flagged.

VS did not confirm the exact date and "early 2019" could be a translation error from a non-native person.

AFAIK, GAMSTOP is not instant when you register, it will take some hours or a day for the database to update. According to the pic, he set it up on 11th April late evening, the screenshot from the 12th April could have been made at 00:01am.
 
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Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Can someone who understands how the ADR process works, please explain something to me? If you contact an ADR, would they not take control of the situation from start to finish, not just give you a few pointers on how to proceed, and then leave you to it, which is what the OP appears to be saying.

For the amount of money at stake, why would the OP come here to CM for advice/help, then ignore the PAB process, ignore VS's official complaint route, and go directly to an ADR which apparently has nothing to do with VS?

The State of Denmark springs to mind.

Because this case has all the hallmarks of a GAMSTOP con. There are plenty of closed forums where people exchange tricks and ways to exploit the apparent GAMSTOP flaws and loopholes.

He was asked numerous times if all details between GAMSTOP and VS match. His answer was always: name and DOB.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Oh yes, the GAMSTOP pic. :rolleyes: :D

Why has he not submitted his complete GAMSTOP records to VS? That would clear everything up if all is so super-kosher, wouldn't it? :what:

Also, he has not confirmed whether all details on GAMSTOP and VS match other than name and DOB. GAMSTOP works on 4/6 minimum IIRC. 2/6 would not be flagged.

VS did not confirm the exact date and "early 2019" could be a translation error from a non-native person.

AFAIK, GAMSTOP is not instant when you register, it will take some hours or a day for the database to update. According to the pic, he set it up on 11th April late evening, the screenshot from the 12th April could have been made at 00:01am.

As I say, just playing devils advocate - I don't believe the OP either :)
The fact he hasn't answered my question about the address when I've asked twice, says it all to me.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
If there is genuine wrongdoing from the casino in terms of exclusions then he has to go straight to the UKGC. They may take some time but will deal with it from a regulatory perspective and the result would be a return of net losses if any wrongdoing found. It's not out with the realms of possibility that a casino had issues with SE prior to the rule change last year. It's been highlighted than numerous casinos had problems before that, although VS was not one that was flagged.
 
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