Corrupt Online Gaming

[4 of a kind]

I decided to finally get off my chest once and for all, and express my personal opinions on several topics.

I’ve only been an active member here for a year and nine months. Although, that may appear to be a short time for many members here; for me it was enough time to come to the following conclusions.

When I first joined here after the UIGEA was passed it was obvious to me at that time that things were changing for the worst with online gaming. I’ve joined and participated in several other gaming forums, but this site was always the predominate choice. I’m also certain it’s obvious to most that I’m now being viewed as a rebel. When I first joined I was optimistic and even impressed to learn about what I had no clue of. But after reading thousands of threads here and at other forums, I’ve concluded that it’s just not possible to run a players advocate site on the one hand and in the other collecting sponsorship funds from the same people their suppose to be protecting us from. I know someone has to pay the bills, but when it comes to online gaming it’s just not going to work. (for most) I know many of the same die hard casinomiester fans are going to respond to these comments, but I’m sorry to say, player advocates / casino payments is like trying to mix oil and water.

I’ve seen in to many cases biased, misleading, banning members, and in some cases blatantly corrupt behavior take place one to many times. We’ve all seen in just about every serious issue casino reps., advocates, affiliates, constantly refusing to enter threatening threads. Extremely serious issues and accusations never finding a conclusion, just eventually being swept under the carpet and fade away. Many experienced players like me trying to point out issues that may not be obvious to others in an effort to help, only to find themselves being attacked from the die hard faithful. (Always the same little group of fans) In many cases these same people actually trying to help others will eventually end up banned. If the casinos were challenged the same way experienced players trying to help were, maybe this cesspool business would have a chance to correct itself and become fun again.

The sad truth is that regardless what anyone person can prove, the casinos will never change without serious regulation. I’m familiar with an issue where a person’s life has been threatened if he came forward. Why should he be willing to take that chance? Even if he came forward it would only obviously have a serious impact for a short period of time, until they re-brand, re-sell, or whatever, which we already have seen many times already in the past.

Online gaming has become the new definition for corrupt, regardless what one may be foolish enough to believe.

 

[Westland Bowl]

It's hard to keep the online casinos honest when the cards are controlled by them. The online casinos can pass the randomness audits with flying colors but that doesn't mean anything if a betting strategy is used. Their RNGs analyzes how you play (it is naive to believe they don't) and it is pretty darn hard to win once it figures your strategy. Therefore, what's the point of playing online casinos anymore?

At this point, if the status quo continues in the online casino industry, I would not care if the US passes online gambling regulation as long as card drawing is hidden and in control of the online casino. I'd rather push for land casinos to open up in more states. I have yet to see cards moving around by themselves in a shoe in response to my blackjack strategy.

 

[nisosbar]

Can you be more specific? For example, is there a particular thread where you find that CM failed to do what, in your opinion, should have been done?

I mean, without specifics, it's difficult to understand what your point here is.

 

[StaceyLee]

I hear ya 4ofaKind and do acknowledge your bravery in holding a stand with the fact that you simply want a clear, precise answer to this issue. For you to put up your own money to try and uncover some truth shows how passionate and dedicated you are to this issue. As I roam the forum it does appear that a considerable amount of discussion is about the integrity of computer programming with RNG's.

And I too have my suspicions, how can one not, when there is no valid proof or guarantee that we are playing against lady luck alone. But then I become complacent for awhile, as chasing further seems as hopeless as finding that elusive needle in a haystack - especially as I personally do not have any comprehensive knowledge or lengthy experience in this industry.

I then also wonder about where the line is drawn - how grey is the middle between black and white - when it comes to the forum providing a support base for players, yet receiving it's bread and butter from the one's we seek a fair deal from. Survival, is I believe, the predominant force here and without the current arrangement, where would we have the opportunity to discuss the "politics" of on-line casinos. For CM to rely on players making contributions to provide an income for full-time commitment to advocating would not be a secure option. So I will always sit on the fence with this one as I have personally reaped many rewards for being provided the opportunity to become a member and gain valuable information outside of the current issue.

I then ask myself, if I was in a position where I was a consistent player and a consistent winner for a long time, (dreamer) and I was offered remuneration by a casino to advocate on their behalf - would I accept - knowing full well that those that I help lure in, run a huge risk of losing their bread and butter money. What gets in the way of this one is morality. And even though I consider myself to have high values and morals I would surely be tempted and possibly could even accept: after all I could then turn a blind eye to what happens to everyone else, because surely I am only doing the right thing by providing better survival for myself. The hard part that I would have to ignore is that to increase my nest I have to be draining someone else's.

All said and done though, this is the world we live in and this is business. We are unfortunately not at liberty to go sit in a beautiful forest singing and eating strawberries all day. But as history shows, to make change and to be heard, enough people need to join the march for there is no doubt that rallies, strikes, protests, etc are a definite path to resolving issues.

So whether or not there is ever a resolution to this issue, I respect your dedication and commitment to trying and should your endeavours reach a point where voices need to be heard to help persuade the conglomerates to provide valid proof of their services, I will certainly put my pen to paper.

Cheers
StaceyLee

 

[jod5413]

Oh for Heaven's sake, 4oak. Get a life. To come here and do nothing but bad mouth this site with your ridiculous and ignorant comments is truly disgusting.

I’m also certain it’s obvious to most that I’m now being viewed as a rebel

Rebel? Ha ha ha, that's rich!

Maybe you are going through a mid life crisis and need to disrespect Casinomeister to prove you are still a force to be reckoned with?

I would assume if we are all messed up and this site is problematic for you, you will be ending your membership here? Maybe you and your good buddies (Robwin and/or Scuter and/or ??) can put together a truly "good and honest" forum for folks like you?

StaceyLee, you are a newbie and as such it is easy for some members here to steer you wrong. Please do your research here and elsewhere before you actually commit to one train of thought.

 

[jetset]

Jod tells it like it is, and in this instance I have to agree with her.

4oak has done nothing but whinge (not 'rebel' - whinge) here about the industry and the people in it, and how corrupt the whole thing is etc etc ad nauseum, apparently trying to either build a heroic maverick reputation for himself or discredit the webmaster and his staff here for reasons unknown to me.

Over and over and over again - always the same whiney and almost entirely negative comments and aspersions. There's just no balance to it, and that imo discredits or at the very least dilutes the content.

I happen to support his view that bona fide regulation could be an effective answer to many of the problems that exist. That is happening, albeit on a fragmented basis outside the USA, but that is politicians at work - often in self-interested, corrupt and wheeler dealing processes that frankly pay only lip service to the real protection of the player.

As a member here 4oak is entitled to express an opinion, however misguided, biased or ill-informed this might be in the opinion of other members, and he has done that. There will inevitably be those who support his view, and that is their right, too.

But again, imo this total condemnation of an industry in which there are many good operators, large companies of integrity and fair businessmen actually dilutes the credibility of his outraged rants. A little balance goes a long way, and I see little evidence of this in his posts....but that's my personal view.

The obvious question one asks oneself in viewing repetitive assaults of this nature is: "If the poster feels so strongly that everything about this industry is irredeemably corrupt and evil, why has he/she hung around it on the message board periphery for so long? Surely the sensible move for someone so utterly convinced of the criminally crooked and fraudulent nature would turn his or her back on it in sheer disgust, frustration and impotence?

But then, 4oak may feel that continual negative public railing and ranting can bring about the change desired? In the absence of other initiatives, some driven by the industry itself, that's arguable imv.

There are undeniably aspects of this industry that need to be rooted out and changed for the better, and this Casinomeister site has done way more than its fair share in doing this, and continues to do so. Players need to continue to expose wrongdoing in a factual and as far as possible well considered manner in order for this process to continue.

But to consign the entire industry to the rubbish tip is going too far....

 

[maxd]

I think Jetset has said what needs be said regarding the casino side of things. I'd like to say a few words about the portal side of things, Casinomeister in particular since CM was one of 4oak's targets.

Those of you that have been around the online gambling scene for a few years or more will probably be having a strong sense of deja vu after reading 4oak's post. Every once in a while some forum poster, usually someone known for being outspoken and at the center of more than their fair share of forum rows, will claim that sites like Casinomeister must be corrupt because that's their only option if they accept advertiser money. They reason that since the money flows from advertiser to website the favours must be flowing from website to advertiser. Every major online gaming portal in the history of the business has been thusly accused, usually every few months or so. And the accuser's message has remained uncannily consistent in that it's almost always the same thing being said, over and over again.

For those of you who may not have swallowed this line of reasoning without question I would suggest to you that you ask yourself one question: is the accuser's message based on anything factual or is it just them saying "I think there must be corruption therefor there is"? I respectfully suggest that the vast majority of the time it is the latter, the "it must be so" argument.

The problem is that's no argument at all. People used to say our world was flat because "it must be so". Or Earth was the center of the cosmos because "it must be so". Or some poor man or woman was a witch and must die because "it must be so".

What we're really talking about here is a failure to see further than one's own reasoning allows. It's basically saying "I can't imagine how such a thing is possible therefor it is not possible". It's a shortcoming on the observer's part being projected onto the thing observed.

The point in this case is that there are many reasons why advertisers advertise on sites where they do not in fact call the shots. The primary reason being that if there are enough eyes seeing the adverts then the advertiser's purpose is accomplished, regardless of what else the site says, does, or aspires to.

Or, look at it this way: do the people who advertise on billboards control the Highways Departments? There is revenue being generated so surely the Highways Department must be doing favours for the advertisers, or so the "it must be so" logic goes.

Of course we know that the billboard advertisers generally do not control the Highways Department and any suggestion that they do would normally be met with howls of derision. I suggest to the readers that the accusations against Casinomeister forwarded here are of the same calibre and deserve pretty much the same response.

 

[Nate]

The sad truth is that regardless what anyone person can prove, the casinos will never change without serious regulation. I’m familiar with an issue where a person’s life has been threatened if he came forward. Why should he be willing to take that chance? Even if he came forward it would only obviously have a serious impact for a short period of time, until they re-brand, re-sell, or whatever, which we already have seen many times already in the past.

Online gaming has become the new definition for corrupt, regardless what one may be foolish enough to believe.

It is seemingly evident that Online Casinos WILL NOT be regulated like their B&M counterparts. There is too much at stake for the software providers if jurisdictions based successful licence applications on software credibility and available capital. Just think of it? Don't you think that RTG or Rival would be running short of customers if licensing was STRICT? Don't you think that certain jurisdictions would stand to lose a ton of money in licence fees if they were more strict?

What still leaves a question mark in my head is how certain software’s and operators gain licences or are certified by third parties. If you look at the bigger picture, the CASINO provides the data for an audit to take place.

A B&M is audited on site by a third party and a regulator allowing ALL parties, FULL, Unrestricted access to all reports, data and software audit trails highlighting changes. An online Casino on the other hand, (Or at least what I’ve read on some of them) SUBMIT their data to a third party. The auditors / third party are not invited on site to have full unrestricted access to complete their audit. Audits are occurring from an office of a 3rd party in the USA and the Casino server is based in the Netherlands. How does that work? Is it easy for Casinos to manipulate data and forward it to a 3rd party? Can we believe that the integrity of the data was not manipulated? If the Casino says it was not.... it's hearsay as far as im concerned.

Are there regulatory requirements for Online Casinos when there are software changes / enhancements to software? I don't think so. Some online Casinos don't report anything to their licensing authority. The licence they receive from some of the jurisdictions basically boils down to 'You may operate an Online Casino'.

In a nutshell, regulation is thin and far from rooting out thieves. As I stated before, there is a bigger picture to regulation by governments. it's not only about keeping the money in the country, but about Job creation, Fairness, An authority to complain to (who is able to pull a licence) and integrity.

I have been playing for many years online and find it hard to believe that payouts are becoming a more distant hope than ever. Continuous Ludicrous runs of 'Bad Luck' on software is being labelled as 'Normal' or touted as Lady Luck not visiting you... BS if you ask me!

It is also evident that when DIRECT questions are posed to Reps or Casino managers, they are avoided or never answered directly....

The integrity of many casinos and sotware providers have been thoroughly soiled; BUT, they continue to operate and all is forgotten... It's a cut throat business and involves so much of money, some are willing to kill for it!


Nate

 

[ibutlercasino]

Well put,

From the casino side of things, I can say that regulation in the jurisdiction of the casino is not a pass with flying colors affair as said, I can speak for jurisdictions like Malta, Gibraltar, Alderney, Isle of Man which I know personally, there is a period of 6 months of vigorous testing by the gaming authority, let alone that the hardware RNG device has been certified to be random by the local Weights and Measures Authorities. You can read about these devices here

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. Now if as you say some casinos have biased their software in favor of the casino I find that unlikely as they are spot audited(unannounced) and risk losing their license which so much time and money has been invested into. Also why would they bother getting 3rd party certification. Initially I would reflect on my playing style, see if I am chasing winnings or playing against the odds, which is usually the case I have seen in my years in this industry. Regarding monitoring players, this is done not by the RNG but by agents and if they see someone stricken by bad luck in most cases they will issue a goodwill credit to the customer. I agree the more regulation there is the better, but at the same time we cannot deny that the licensed casinos are regulated already and more regulation will only mean higher costs for licensing in different jurisdictions which would eventually be worked into the payout percentages of the games(meaning that they would drop the payout to the lowest permissible by the authorities) something that would really make the conspiracy theorists start yelling corruption. Its a matter of cross government agreements just as with other forms of trade. For example cars must have specific standards from country to country, that doesn't mean they have to be built there or licensed there.

Just my (personal)two cents

 

[P.V.]

Or, look at it this way: do the people who advertise on billboards control the Highways Departments? There is revenue being generated so surely the Highways Department must be doing favours for the advertisers, or so the "it must be so" logic goes.

Never mind, read this quote wrong.

 

[blacklabrador]

I decided to finally get off my chest once and for all, and express my personal opinions on several topics.

I’ve only been an active member here for a year and nine months. Although, that may appear to be a short time for many members here; for me it was enough time to come to the following conclusions.

When I first joined here after the UIGEA was passed it was obvious to me at that time that things were changing for the worst with online gaming. I’ve joined and participated in several other gaming forums, but this site was always the predominate choice. I’m also certain it’s obvious to most that I’m now being viewed as a rebel. When I first joined I was optimistic and even impressed to learn about what I had no clue of. But after reading thousands of threads here and at other forums, I’ve concluded that it’s just not possible to run a players advocate site on the one hand and in the other collecting sponsorship funds from the same people their suppose to be protecting us from. I know someone has to pay the bills, but when it comes to online gaming it’s just not going to work. (for most) I know many of the same die hard casinomiester fans are going to respond to these comments, but I’m sorry to say, player advocates / casino payments is like trying to mix oil and water.

I’ve seen in to many cases biased, misleading, banning members, and in some cases blatantly corrupt behavior take place one to many times. We’ve all seen in just about every serious issue casino reps., advocates, affiliates, constantly refusing to enter threatening threads. Extremely serious issues and accusations never finding a conclusion, just eventually being swept under the carpet and fade away. Many experienced players like me trying to point out issues that may not be obvious to others in an effort to help, only to find themselves being attacked from the die hard faithful. (Always the same little group of fans) In many cases these same people actually trying to help others will eventually end up banned. If the casinos were challenged the same way experienced players trying to help were, maybe this cesspool business would have a chance to correct itself and become fun again.

The sad truth is that regardless what anyone person can prove, the casinos will never change without serious regulation. I’m familiar with an issue where a person’s life has been threatened if he came forward. Why should he be willing to take that chance? Even if he came forward it would only obviously have a serious impact for a short period of time, until they re-brand, re-sell, or whatever, which we already have seen many times already in the past.

Online gaming has become the new definition for corrupt, regardless what one may be foolish enough to believe.

You hit that one right out of the park, gone! I agree with you about getting attacked by a small group of players that "have a casinos back" when in fact it should be quite the opposite. I have said more than once a certain accredited casino on here will eventually be found to be corrupt because they simply dont pay out fairly and a certain poster started name calling. Really? I thought most of the posters on here were able to handle a legit conversation in an adult manner but that is CLEARLY not the case.

I went as far as to say if online casino employees can have access to this forum, who is to say that the person that attacked me wasnt a ghost that uses a different name just to get on here and back its casino? Truth of the matter is, no one knows who everyone is on here, even Bryan, he just has IP addresses.

As I stated after the person attacked me , I am not on here to stir the pot, I am on here to help others and share my THOUGHTS and OPINIONS of my casino expieriences. I am 37 years old and have played online since 1997, English Harbour was my 1st casino and I still play with them to this day. I am fortunate to have never been screwed by an online casino getting paid knowing that others have. This forum can help avoid such a disaster but its too bad a certain few on here have to resort to attacking posters that they dont agree with just because their favorite casino is in question. I got 2 words for those few on here. Grow up.

 

[blacklabrador]

....

 

[just play]

Truth of the matter is, no one knows who everyone is on here, even Bryan, he just has IP addresses

Didn't you watch his Halloween Special? He's clearly a ghost.

 

[blacklabrador]

Didn't you watch his Halloween Special? He's clearly a ghost.

What I meant is Bryan doesn't know all of the members that post on his site, he just knows their IP addresses.

 

[Mavin1]

First off, I would like to say that I support 4ofaK thoughts on this subject as he has demonstrated to be good poster many many times in the past. He is a poker player, I am not, but I feel pretty certain that he knows what he is saying based on his own experience and I give him respect for that.

As for the webmasters side of things, this I feel is an area where even they can and have been duped just as much as the playing public, so I find no fault in this aspect. We all earn a living at what we are best at and webmasters, affiliates and reps for the most part do a dam good job. But even in this arena you have the webmasters that no matter what still promote the rogues, sucking in the unsuspecting players and tarnishing the reputation of all webmasters and affiliates.

When one examines the rogue pits, like here on CM, you can see it is not empty by any means and this does show that promoting will not be done just for the sake of income.

However as with anything, there is corruption, collusion, deception and bumbling bullshit. I seriously doubt regulation will do anything more than what is happening now. The evidence is that in all these years, the rogues are still in business and business is good.

The problem then is there are to many rogues out there tarnishing the entire industry, diluting the playing fields. Thus the few really genuine great online casinos are suffering from the reputation that is being created unfairly by the numerous rogues and white labels.

So why are they still in business? It comes down to the fact that it doesn't matter what the public may think, feel or know, they are still there and always will be and the better casinos are suffering for it. This is the point where the software providers themselves should be held accountable, for licensing their product to just anybody and not giving a crap how the public will be affected in the long term.

The other thing I feel is good about forums such as this, is that even though a new casino may come along and many may sing their praises and catch many up in the net with all the kudos and hooplah, that it is here where the casino also are caught when they turn from the public face of being reputable to showing just how rogue they truly are.

It is here that players who get duped by these casino also find webmasters that are willing to take the casino on and fight for the player's rights. So although a webmaster may earn a living working for the casinos, the casinos also are fully aware that this webamster is also working for the player.

So if a casino comes along and thinks they will trick a webmaster, it is just a matter of time before they are caught with their ass showing.

So yes I agree very much with 4ofaK regarding the corruption in the industry. It is just the corrupted parts are overshadowing the reputable parts and being that one bad apple that is spoiling the whole bunch.

So I apologize now for my few curse words I used in my post, but I do not apologize for supporting my friend.

 

[Simmo!]

Just a few thoughts on this myself with no real coherent structure:

1) Every industry has good guys and bad guys

2) Every forum has people who have polar opposite opinions. Where the problems arise is where people don't respect this.

3) Every industry has people who put money ahead of morals

4) Regulation may help but is not a solution in itself

5) Politicians can and will ultimately decide how this industry operates. Is politics itself free of corruption?

6) Gambling is a very emotive passtime. The amount/number of times a player loses or wins will often affect their opinions.


Guess what I am saying overall is that you could take the OP and put it in many forums in various business markets and it would probably get some agreeing and some disagreeing.

 

[Mavin1]

So true Simmo and as for government/politicians stepping in, then I think I would trust the industry even less.

 

[Tengil]

While I dont have any serious doubts about the fairness of the games I agree that online gaming is somewhat corrupt. There are maybe 20 good groups/casinos out of hundreds of shitholes that I would recommend.
Low entry barriers and costs makes it possible for all kind of crooks or just downright incompetent persons to start up an online casino.

The main reason is the so called licensing jurisdictions, which of course only cares about their own pockets. On paper they may seem good but thats about it. Failure after failure.

Online gaming is one of the most crooked businesses out there IMO. Plus it has a negative impact on economy aswell.

 

[Webzcas]

There are maybe 20 good groups/casinos out of hundreds of shitholes that I would recommend.

Very valid point. Although I would think it is slightly higher than 20, but not much higher. For every good honest operation, I would guess there are 10 to 20 or so clip joints you wouldn't want your worst enemy to play at.

Unfortunately sites such as CM will always attract criticism due to it's high profile in the industry. But 99% of the time Bryan gets it spot on imo. Am I biased? Yes. Am I right though? I think so.

 

[hitobito2005]

Can you be more specific? For example, is there a particular thread where you find that CM failed to do what, in your opinion, should have been done?

I mean, without specifics, it's difficult to understand what your point here is.

I agree with this. Most of 4oaks posts are long, wordy rants without specifics to back them up.

I also find him a bit rude, I mean this response to jod5413 a few days ago was just uncalled for:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/real-vs-fun-vp.40737/

 

[skiny]

My two cents.

I've read in this forum many times in the past, the quips, comments and direct accusations that this cannot be a fair and unbiased platform simply because the site relies on revenue from the very casinos being discussed. I, myself have seen the odd occasion where Bryan or one of the moderators have taken the casino's side of a debate for reasons that I didn't quite understand but I don't believe it's anyone's duty to agree with me on any particular topic and everyone is welcome to their opinion.

It probably isn't an easy thing to sit on the fence between the players and the casinos knowing that the casinos pay the bills but duty dictates advocacy for the players. I'm sure choices have to be made.

But here's the reality... If this site was no more than a billboard for online casinos deemed fair through the web site's rules of accreditation and Bryan was notably biased toward the casino's points of view, the site would have much less value to the players. And logically (at least to me) the less value the site holds for players, the less value the site holds for the casinos.

One of the reasons this site has become so popular and has such a large following is the fact that Casinomeister is not automatically or inherently biased toward any casino in a dispute. It makes good business sense for a casino to advertise in a place that is A) very popular and B) known to be fair and honest.

To start or keep a trend of casino support over player advocacy would only serve to damage the site's reputation. In the long run a poor reputation would result in less traffic and regardless of who is paying the bills, less traffic means less revenue.

I've never had a conversation at length with Bryan but from what I've read on this site he doesn't strike me as a stupid man. I'm fairly certain he knows where his money is coming from and regardless of how many banners he splashes across these pages, nobody is making a dime if nobody is around to click them. Following that logic, it would make very little sense for Casinomeister to just sit back and let the casinos have free reign while while watching all the members of his site walk out the back door. The only way to increase revenue, to increase membership and to increase popularity of a site like this is to keep it fair and honest and this site has been around for a long time.

 

[swampwitch]

A "watchdog", by definition, is someone or something whose whole purpose is to "watch" and report unethical or crooked practices. What funds the "watchdog" can never be the "watched", or there is a conflict of interest.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Bryan ever called himself a "watchdog"?
I know other sites with "Watchdog Lists" have called the Casinomeister site a "watchdog".

I would contend that Bryan is not a watchdog, and that Casinomeister is not a watchdog site. I would categorize Casinomeister as an information and business portal, and I would call Bryan the owner of such. Bryan makes his money from the promotion of online gambling venues, and Casinomeister is the tool he uses to make that money.
The fact that there are lists of good and bad casinos on Casinomeister does not make Casinomeister or Bryan himself a "watchdog".

Now, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, what I am saying is that neither Bryan or Casinomeister is a watchdog...if you take "watchdog" as a NOUN.

What Bryan does do through Casinomeister is watchdog...WATCHDOG as VERB.
His recommended and not-recommended lists are examples of watchdogging. The PAB service is watchdogging. The stances taken by management either pro or con over a particular issue whether it's about a Casinomeister-promoted venue or not is watchdogging.

It is my considered opinion that Casinomeister and staff are the best in the business at mainstream WATCHDOGGING. There's never been any pretense that this place was not here to make a buck. Never. There's never been any pretense that this is a completely altruistic endeavor...here only to cater to the needs of the put-upon. This place would do very well without the PAB service. This place would be just fine if it didn't allow people to kvetch and whinge. The fact is, there IS a PAB service, and we can piss and moan all we want, and it doesn't do Bryan's bottom line any good.

Do I think Bryan makes a wrong call now and then? Yup. But I also think he sometimes lets people bend him over sans dinner and a show.

Bryan and Casinomeister aren't the bad guys. You want bad guys? There are shitloads of sites that call themselves watchdogs that are ACTUALLY unethical bullshit artists that brag about promoting rogues and crooks, who only care about the hundreds of thousands they and their acolytes rake in per month.

Casinomeister is an honest joint. Take it as it is, and not what you've decided it should be.

 

[LHofsdal]

I think the OP has the right to post their OPINION, and that is just what it is, an OPINION, it is not FACT.

I have been a member here for almost a year now and I really think that Casinomeister is fair. I have read many posts and if it weren't for the time and efforts of Max and/or Bryan, many people would be out alot of money.

This site has been up and running for 10+ years, and if it were doing so much wrong, do you think it would have lasted this long and have so many active users? Did anyone stop and think that what if they didn't have advertisers to help pay for the site? What if they didn't have advertisers, and Casinomeister charged US (the members) to work on the PAB's and to post here? Then I guess they would be faulted for that too. Because they handle our PAB and take our money to do so.....

I mean c'mon, what they do for us they do at no charge to us. They take the time to look into our complaints and help try and solve them. Lets face it, some of these complaints are time consuming. I really do believe they do all this in a professional and unbiased manner. Hell, they even prepare a summary of all the PAB so we can all see the outcome.

As far as the whole online gaming industry being corrupt, I have to disagree. As with everything else in life, you have the good with the bad. Hence the Accredited and Rogue lists. Again, that takes time to create, keep updated and Casinomeister does this service for us at no charge.

Does Casinomeister always make the right decision? Maybe, or maybe not. But I can honestly say that in my opinion they are fair. Max and/or Bryan have the ability to see things we as members can not see, so who are we to question their decisions? They may make decisions we all do not agree on, but we almost always do not have the whole story. They do. I don't think they make their decsions based on the amount of advertising money the site collects. I do believe however, they are fair.

Again, this is my opinion, but I do think some of what I wrote is fact.

LH

 

[jod5413]

I agree with this. Most of 4oaks posts are long, wordy rants without specifics to back them up.

I also find him a bit rude, I mean this response to jod5413 a few days ago was just uncalled for:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/real-vs-fun-vp.40737/

Well, it may seem to be uncalled for but.....I have a bad habit of riding the a$$ of folks that are at best deluded and at worst, simply empty headed. Although there are very few people here that don't know I am a bit mouthy. But...They also know that I do not say anything I can not prove. In fact, a lot of people I go off on can not dispute my posts so they just smart mouth about my posts. What'cha gonna do, huh?

What'cha think of that, Nate and 4oak?

 

[skiny]

Well, it may seem to be uncalled for but.....I have a bad habit of riding the a$$ of folks that are at best deluded and at worst, simply empty headed. Although there are very few people here that don't know I am a bit mouthy. But...They also know that I do not say anything I can not prove. In fact, a lot of people I go off on can not dispute my posts so they just smart mouth about my posts. What'cha gonna do, huh?

What'cha think of that, Nate and 4oak?

I can dispute any post.

 

[jod5413]

Hey Babe, you can dispute my posts any time you want!

 

[skiny]

I mean c'mon, what they do for us they do at no charge to us...

As far as the whole online gaming industry being corrupt, I have to disagree. As with everything else in life, you have the good with the bad. Hence the Accredited and Rogue lists. Again, that takes time to create, keep updated and Casinomeister does this service for us at no charge.

A website, as with many things doesn't have to directly charge us to make money off us. I believe that Bryan and the rest of the gang here believe in what they are doing but make no mistake, this isn't all just out of the goodness of their hearts. This website provides certain services to players in need and it may be true that it is not necessary for them to do it but these services are a big part of what attracts players to this website and gives players the confidence to click it's links. Without a strong track record of conducting honest investigations and advocating for players who have been wronged those links would be just another shot in the dark hoping to find an honest casino and would see a lot less traffic, I would imagine.

Does Casinomeister always make the right decision? Maybe, or maybe not. But I can honestly say that in my opinion they are fair. Max and/or Bryan have the ability to see things we as members can not see, so who are we to question their decisions? They make make decisions we all do not agree on, but we almost always do not have the whole story. They do. I don't think they make their decsions based on the amount of advertising money the site collects. I do believe however, they are fair.

We are the people spending all the money. Repsect and appreciation doesn't require blind faith. If I disagree with something I will question it and you should too.

Hey Babe, you can dispute my posts any time you want!

I disagree!

 

[StaceyLee]

An Assurance of Quality Control is what would make me comfortable in this industry. As we know Quality Control ensures that, for example, a double-adaptor has been manufactured according to strict safety measures, therefore you can confidently plug it into your power point feeling safe that it will not cause a short and burn your house down. Inferior products are always made and are available to purchase. And although they probably shouldn't be allowed into the consumer market, they always get in! We have had media attention reminding people to look for stamps of approval on products that have been made under quality control safety guidelines as inevitably people opt for the cheaper, inferior product and have sadly had to watch their homes burn to the ground. My point being that Quality Control provides the consumer with an informed choice.

From what I can ascertain from the information I find here, there are auditing practices in place, but these applications may have flaws and be provided as a false smoke screen of security. The key word here being "may" - so how does one know. One cannot be blamed for suspicion as it cannot be denied that we live in a world of corruption. So I do still look for some sense of Quality Control. I find it here! Albeit not always foolproof, but it is far better than blindly participating in an industry that is fraught with speculation by its own nature.

Who knows, in time maybe there eventually will be a system of Quality Control within this industry that is structured by the consumers to provide guaranteed assurance of the quality of the product that we use. I think that by continually questioning, challenging and watchdogging this issue we are forever moving one step closer to a probable solution.

I do sympathize with all long-term members, as it must get a little frustrating having to re-hash what sometimes appears "same ol', same lo'". But for newbies like myself it is still important that these topics are addressed, for even if the current thread reflects similar material to one of a year ago, at least it lets us know what, if any, developments have transpired along the way that we might have missed out on.

These threads have great topics and contain many valuable, intelligent contributions - from both sides of the fence. So thanks to all, your contributions are always greatly appreciated.

Cheers
StaceyLee

 

[X-Raided]

Where's my boy NASHVEGAS when you need him?

I'd love to hear his input on this thread.

 

[Mavin1]

Oh for Heaven's sake, 4oak. Get a life. To come here and do nothing but bad mouth this site with your ridiculous and ignorant comments is truly disgusting. Rebel? Ha ha ha, that's rich!

Maybe you are going through a mid life crisis and need to disrespect Casinomeister to prove you are still a force to be reckoned with?

I would assume if we are all messed up and this site is problematic for you, you will be ending your membership here? Maybe you and your good buddies (Robwin and/or Scuter and/or ??) can put together a truly "good and honest" forum for folks like you?

StaceyLee, you are a newbie and as such it is easy for some members here to steer you wrong. Please do your research here and elsewhere before you actually commit to one train of thought.

Well, it may seem to be uncalled for but.....I have a bad habit of riding the a$$ of folks that are at best deluded and at worst, simply empty headed. Although there are very few people here that don't know I am a bit mouthy. But...They also know that I do not say anything I can not prove. In fact, a lot of people I go off on can not dispute my posts so they just smart mouth about my posts. What'cha gonna do, huh?

What'cha think of that, Nate and 4oak?

Hey Babe, you can dispute my posts any time you want!

I am just about sick of your antagonistic attitude when someone posts something you don't agree with. Instead of giving a mature debate and point out why you truly think things are different than what the OP stated, you start with the attacks, ridicule, insults and childish nonsense.

You cause some members to flame and then laugh about it when they are reprimanded, you to should be reprimanded for inciting such emotions in other posters, but you never are. You are kudo'd by the few that pump you up where you then become even more of a smart ass than before.

I guess you need these ego pumps to get through your day and here in just this one thread you are being your usual mean snotty self towards not only Carl, but also Robwin, Nate and others.

One time I had publicly apologized to you in the thread I had started about Censorship and you weren't even gracious enough to accept it. Same thing with Nifty, both of you love to jump on posters that aren't politically correct, but ignore it if the same posters humbles themselves to you.

Your avitar fits you extremely well as it is antagonistic just as you truly are and I'm sure at the end of the day, you must feel really good about yourself having finally had the opportunity to once again make someone else look stupider than you.

You remind me of the old movie, Lord Of The Flies.

 

[Nate]

Well, it may seem to be uncalled for but.....I have a bad habit of riding the a$$ of folks that are at best deluded and at worst, simply empty headed. Although there are very few people here that don't know I am a bit mouthy. But...They also know that I do not say anything I can not prove. In fact, a lot of people I go off on can not dispute my posts so they just smart mouth about my posts. What'cha gonna do, huh?

What'cha think of that, Nate and 4oak?

- i didn't see I was being dragged into this...

If you read my post, my post was NOT directed at CM or its affiliation with online Casinos. I simply put forward the question: If third party audits are taking place, then are the audits taking place on site or from an office in another country?

Casino's provide the data to a third party for the audit. Does the Auditor come on site and does he/she have free unrestricted access to the data? Maybe someone from the Online industry would care to elaborate on that or
Maybe You jod5413 can prove this, since your whole day consists of being nasty and sitting on a forum and poking fun at others...

Your life must be real sad if you have nothing better to do then sit and wait like a vulture on the forum to attack other posters... Truly, You are deluded!

 

[maxd]

I recommend a collective chill pill be taken here before this gets out of hand and ends up being padlocked.

 

[Nifty29]

WHOA!

Hold on a minute Mavin. I haven't even SAID anything in this thread.

What the hell is your problem?

I don't recall any time that you have 'apologised' and I have subsequently taken aim or ignored you.

You know, you sure are being snarky for someone who calls people out for being snarky....

4OAK is fully entitled to his opinion and you are fully entitled to agree with it.......just as I am fully entitled to consider it a load of bollocks.

BTW I thought you had quit gambling?

 

[StaceyLee]

RRRREEEEOOOOOWWWWW this is getting better than "Days of Our Lives. Looovvvee the distraction guys and it would be oh so much fun to take you down the local pub, buy you a beer, mention on-line casino forum and WOOOMPHAH! - sit back and enjoy the show. The electrical chemistry would be spectacular, (especially after the next three beers). But I better stop there before my imaginative imagination starts conjuring further images of what the chemistry would be like if some of you were put in another room

Forever a mediator by nature though, how about givin each other a big kiss and make-up ........okay, or not

Seriously, you are all equally credible and respected by many, but if it's gonna be - fair bump, play on - don't forget to heed Maxd's intervention.........and like sand through..........the rest of us will stay tuned for the next exciting instalment.

Cheers
StaceyLee

 

[ksech]

Phew, lots of reading in this thread...
Just an observation...
Every few months it appears "groups" go on a binge of attacking each other. In my opinion, this site has lost many informative posters due to childish name calling and finger pointing. I've always considered this site one of the best places a gambler can go to, to read about others experiences (whether good OR bad) and to share on opinions of different aspects of the online gambling world.

There is no law which states you HAVE to agree with everything being said. There is no law stating you have to come here daily and participate. Reading something can be taken in different contexts, as you cannot hear the inflection in a posters voice (or hear their thoughts as they type out a post) as to how they wish to be acknowledged.

This thread has gone from a personal opinion, to name calling and finger pointing. I thought we were all adults here(?). The original topic is being lost through personalized flaming.

Since I never played poker (and it's probably a good thing since the dynamics of the game are totally lost on me), I find it interesting to read the many different opinions on play. Whether it be slots, roulette, or poker, I think the industry is slightly skewed.

When I was playing I was a small time player. I didn't have the funds to bankroll $1000's a day/week/month. From a low roller's point of view (and this is just MY opinion), I found the industry to have greatly changed after the UIGEA. It didn't matter which platform I played, the dry spells seemed to be long and the final rewards didn't come anywhere near what my "donations" had been. I wasn't expecting to win EVERY time I played, but even a small win now and then was like winning the lottery. Yes, I do understand the term GAMBLING. And yes, I understand these online casinos are businesses, out to make money (what business isn"t?).

But, it would seem to my simple, sensibilities...Better to allow a player a win after every 5th or 6th deposit to keep them coming back. The sad fact was, even decent line wins were inconceivable. When you can make 100-200 spins on a game, with a less than betsize line win every 7 or 8 spins, what makes a player want to keep playing? It becomes tedious and frustrating.

Do you go after the "next one is the one" fantasy? These online casinos have the US players by the throat and they know it. Without the competition of decent places to play, they know the "addicts" will keep coming back. Did you find, pre-UIGEA, you were luckier? Games were looser? Options of casino choices greater?

I personally, and this is just my opinion again, don't think things in the online world will change unless the laws which govern the casinos change. We will continue to see a rise in online casinos, making outlandish SUBs to draw in players. Whether or not they will survive is totally up to the players.

You DO have a choice...You can continue to play where you are allowed to, or you can choose NOT to keep donating to casinos whom you deem unfair/baised/ or whatever. No one is pointing a gun to your head FORCING you to make that deposit. Let your money talk, if you find a casino you think is "rogue", STOP playing there.

Debate is great, and as ADULTS, we should be thankful for this place. As far as the mudslinging is concerned...Grow up!

 

[The Dude]

Okay, I'll finally chime in so that we can focus on the OP's opening post and hopefully we won't get distracted by the extra stuff

....
I’ve seen in to many cases biased, misleading, banning members, and in some cases blatantly corrupt behavior take place one to many times. We’ve all seen in just about every serious issue casino reps., advocates, affiliates, constantly refusing to enter threatening threads. Extremely serious issues and accusations never finding a conclusion, just eventually being swept under the carpet and fade away. Many experienced players like me trying to point out issues that may not be obvious to others in an effort to help, only to find themselves being attacked from the die hard faithful. (Always the same little group of fans) In many cases these same people actually trying to help others will eventually end up banned. If the casinos were challenged the same way experienced players trying to help were, maybe this cesspool business would have a chance to correct itself and become fun again.

The sad truth is that regardless what anyone person can prove, the casinos will never change without serious regulation. I’m familiar with an issue where a person’s life has been threatened if he came forward. Why should he be willing to take that chance? Even if he came forward it would only obviously have a serious impact for a short period of time, until they re-brand, re-sell, or whatever, which we already have seen many times already in the past.

Online gaming has become the new definition for corrupt, regardless what one may be foolish enough to believe.

You'll need to be specific if you are trying to make a point here. Making sweeping comments doesn't do anyone a bit of good, unless of course you are venting. But since you are questioning my integrity, then you need to be specific.

You mention banning of members. The moderators and I are extremely tolerant when it comes to dishing out vacations or permanent 86s - the bottom line is we have guidelines on banishments; it's all spelled out here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum-faq/forum-policies/

No one gets banned for an opinion - it's how they present their opinions that gets them banned . And we adhere to a "three strikes yer out" policy. We are all members here - casino reps to be included. It's not us versus them - it's all us.

You mention that casino reps don't enter threatening threads? Who wants to enter a "threatening thread"? No thread should be threatening - they should be provocative or inquisitive - not threatening. Please remember casino reps do this stuff on their own time, and many don't get involved because either they are unaware, or they don't want to mis-speak. You need to be a bit understanding about all of this. The bottom line is that nothing is swept under the carpet. If you are going to make these kind of accusations, then be prepared to point out specifically where something has been purposely "covered up." I don't take this lightly.

It has been mentioned in this thread a number of times that there is corruption in nearly all types of business endeavors. This industry is no different than a number of them (think construction contracting, politics, and pharmaceuticals ). Corruption is no stranger to the online gaming community.

But that said, there are many, many good upstanding entities that far outnumber the bad. Ladbrokes, 32red, Betfred, etc., etc., etc. These are genuinely regulated and have extremely high profiles. I do not consider these companies nor their brethren to be corrupt. You are looking at the half empty glass when you throw these accusations around.

Back to Casinomeister. It's not all about me and what I think. I am an advocate of fair play - and I am the chief webmaster. It's the membership HERE that is the "watchdog" - not me alone. As mentioned, this is and always has been an information site. I and you (we) provide this information; it is up to the visitor/reader to make their own decisions based on what they see.

I've run this site for over twelve years, and I think I have found the balance between advocacy and promotion. I have never been motivated by money -people who know me personally know this - I'm motivated by interacting with people and providing a useful tool that members value. That's it.

So it's up to you; take it or leave it.

 

[felicie]

I recommend a collective chill pill be taken here before this gets out of hand and ends up being padlocked.

Ah shucks maxd, someones gotta stick up for us "folks that are at best deluded and at worst, simply empty headed"

 

[blacklabrador]

I am just about sick of your antagonistic attitude when someone posts something you don't agree with. Instead of giving a mature debate and point out why you truly think things are different than what the OP stated, you start with the attacks, ridicule, insults and childish nonsense.

You cause some members to flame and then laugh about it when they are reprimanded, you to should be reprimanded for inciting such emotions in other posters, but you never are. You are kudo'd by the few that pump you up where you then become even more of a smart ass than before.

I guess you need these ego pumps to get through your day and here in just this one thread you are being your usual mean snotty self towards not only Carl, but also Robwin, Nate and others.

One time I had publicly apologized to you in the thread I had started about Censorship and you weren't even gracious enough to accept it. Same thing with Nifty, both of you love to jump on posters that aren't politically correct, but ignore it if the same posters humbles themselves to you.

Your avitar fits you extremely well as it is antagonistic just as you truly are and I'm sure at the end of the day, you must feel really good about yourself having finally had the opportunity to once again make someone else look stupider than you.

You remind me of the old movie, Lord Of The Flies.

Spot on Mav. Last time I was questioning the fairness of slots on 3dice casino, Jod came at me with a barrage of insults, name calling and making sure that I was aware I am fairly new on this site calling me a newbie. She certainly has some issues that she should deal with in real life before posting on a message board. If she stepped out of cyberworld for a second and re-read what she posts to people, she would realize that if she said what she did to another woman in person, she would get punched right in face without a doubt. How far fetched is it to picture a cranky old woman sitting on her computer getting lit up on a casino, then logging onto casinomeister right after only to take her anger out on other gamblers. Sounds about right.

Since when does being new on a message board not qualify one to express their opinions on a certain matter? How in the hell does she know my backround or anyone elses for that matter. If this was my board, people like her would no longer be members, she brings nothing to the table and in fact probably has run off a few members that simply don't want to hear her nonsense. Enough about that nutjob, I'll just leave it at that and its appearant she has been this way since day one judging from all the other posters

 

[blacklabrador]

Okay, I'll finally chime in so that we can focus on the OP's opening post and hopefully we won't get distracted by the extra stuff




You'll need to be specific if you are trying to make a point here. Making sweeping comments doesn't do anyone a bit of good, unless of course you are venting. But since you are questioning my integrity, then you need to be specific.

You mention banning of members. The moderators and I are extremely tolerant when it comes to dishing out vacations or permanent 86s - the bottom line is we have guidelines on banishments; it's all spelled out here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum-faq/forum-policies/

No one gets banned for an opinion - it's how they present their opeinions that gets them banned . And we adhere to a "three strikes yer out" policy. We are all members here - casino reps to be included. It's not us versus them - it's all us.

You mention that casino reps don't enter threatening threads? Who wants to enter a "threatening thread"? No thread should be threatening - they should be provocative or inquisitive - not threatening. Please remember casino reps do this stuff on their own time, and many don't get involved because either they are unaware, or they don't want to mis-speak. You need to be a bit understanding about all of this. The bottom line is that nothing is swept under the carpet. If you are going to make these kind of accusations, then be prepared to point out specifically where something has been purposely "covered up." I don't take this lightly.

It has been mentioned in this thread a number of times that there is corruption in nearly all types of business endeavors. This industry is no different than a number of them (think construction contracting, politics, and pharmaceuticals ). Corruption is no stranger to the online gaming community.

But that said, there are many, many good upstanding entities that far outnumber the bad. Ladbrokes, 32red, Betfred, etc., etc., etc. These are genuinely regulated and have extremely high profiles. I do not consider these companies nor their brethren to be corrupt. You are looking at the half empty glass when you throw these accusations around.

Back to Casinomeister. It's not all about me and what I think. I am an advocate of fair play - and I am the chief webmaster. It's the membership HERE that is the "watchdog" - not me alone. As mentioned, this is and always has been an information site. I and you (we) provide this information; it is up to the visitor/reader to make their own decisions based on what they see.

I've run this site for over twelve years, and I think I have found the balance between advocacy and promotion. I have never been motivated by money -people who know me personally know this - I'm motivated by interacting with people and providing a useful tool that members value. That's it.

So it's up to you; take it or leave it.

All one has to do is watch your videos and it is clear you are not motivated by money, you seem like a truly genuine nice guy that enjoys what he does thoroughly.

 

[StaceyLee]

I have to say "Well said" CM. I think to take a positive from all of this, (as of course the negatives of regulation will endure), this thread provided an opportunity for you to get up front and personal with members.

I sympathize for you, as your professional experience, advocacy and internal knowledge of the industry far outweighs many of us that are only skimming the surface. And for you to have to go back into the kindy playground must surely be taxing on your time or inclination. But I would like to thank you for your exposure in this thread as it humanizes you to me - bit like the big boss taking a wander through the pit every so often. Always makes the workers feel warm, fuzzy and important.

Thanks and keep up the good work!
Cheers
StaceyLee

 

[mattsgame]

I think for me I can sum up my feelings on this topic in 1 word TRUST/FAITH (ok maybe 2 word)

Without any trust or faith in people where would we be?

We have to trust webmasters to be honest, If we didn't I doubt any of us would be here contributing?

We have to trust Casinos to do the right thing or we would not be playing there?

We have to trust the audits.

We have to trust E-Wallets to be safe and secure.

If you don't have any trust or faith in these people why are you here? why do you play online? why do you use e-wallets?

Also if Online gaming was Regulated we would have to trust the regulators,who's to say they would not be corrupt.

I completely do not agree with Casinomeisters conflict of interest.

If there was a conflict of interest I think most people here would see right threw it and these forums would not exist.The posters here are quite intelligent!

Anyways I think I'am just blabbing, but these are my thoughts on the issues raised.

Cheers
Matt

 

[asianeyes]

I am just about sick of your antagonistic attitude when someone posts something you don't agree with. Instead of giving a mature debate and point out why you truly think things are different than what the OP stated, you start with the attacks, ridicule, insults and childish nonsense.

You cause some members to flame and then laugh about it when they are reprimanded, you to should be reprimanded for inciting such emotions in other posters, but you never are. You are kudo'd by the few that pump you up where you then become even more of a smart ass than before.

I guess you need these ego pumps to get through your day and here in just this one thread you are being your usual mean snotty self towards not only Carl, but also Robwin, Nate and others.

One time I had publicly apologized to you in the thread I had started about Censorship and you weren't even gracious enough to accept it. Same thing with Nifty, both of you love to jump on posters that aren't politically correct, but ignore it if the same posters humbles themselves to you.



Your avitar fits you extremely well as it is antagonistic just as you truly are and I'm sure at the end of the day, you must feel really good about yourself having finally had the opportunity to once again make someone else look stupider than you.

You remind me of the old movie, Lord Of The Flies.

You're right, Mavin. She sounds and expresses like a young child.

P.S. and the avitar is befitting!

 

[RedAndi]

Phew, lots of reading in this thread...
Just an observation...
Every few months it appears "groups" go on a binge of attacking each other. In my opinion, this site has lost many informative posters due to childish name calling and finger pointing. I've always considered this site one of the best places a gambler can go to, to read about others experiences (whether good OR bad) and to share on opinions of different aspects of the online gambling world.

I agree with you on this Ksech

 

[Mavin1]

I would just like to express now that I have gotten my vent off my chest why I feel 4ofaKind deserves a little more consideration. In the time he has been here he became well respected and contributed some great postings, earning him 3 nominations in this short period. That in itself says a lot about a poster.

But somewhere something has gone astray and his view has differed from what it was originally. None of us know why, but is it so hard to be kind, patient and understand with a poster that deserves a little more consideration than the typical trouble maker? Doesn't matter if it were him, Robwin or whom ever, they have earned the patience they should have been shown.

I respect that Bryan has come on here and stated how things are from his side and he has done this without insulting the OP or making the OP feel like an imbecile. He has handled the OP's post with mature respect and this is how members should treat one another.

Nifty it's been some time that I had apologized to you in a thread, but I will always remember that you hadn't thanked it as acknowledgement, maybe you didn't come back to the thread, I don't know. So once again, here today I will apologize to you yet again. Because even though you can be very stubborn with your opinions against many of us, I respect you and appreciate your offerings. You may have totally dissagreed with myself and others many times, but you have never once made me feel ashamed for venting my views.

Every member here is a unique individual with many different ways of seeing and expressing things and if they have not just gone off the deep end from the get go, then at least give them a little better treatment and consideration they deserve.

Edit: Winbig, please remove the nomination from my post, although I appreciate you making a show of standing with me, it is not a reason for a nomination. This as has been discussed before is an FU nomination and we don't want to be unfair to posts that deserve being honored.

 

[Nate]

Hi Mavin1,

In the words of Shaggy... "It Wasn't Me'

Anyways, I see the logic in that you would like the nomination removed.

I totally agree with your post and I do not believe for one moment that 4OAK has made any of this up. It would be entirely up to the OP to justify his comments should he deem it necessary. No one will know the circumstances surrounding his original post and the reasons thereof.

I would however like to state that I for one, do not doubt his integrity and do not believe he would have made the statement unless he stumbled across something that he should not have.

Nate

 

[Mavin1]

Sorry Nate, my mistake, that would be Winbig. The memory goes fast from one page to the next.

 

[Luckylizzy]

I appreciate Casinomeister's efforts to keep players safe from the corrupt online casinos in this industry. Of course no one is perfect and we cannot expect them to be. Regulation of online gambling is slowly trickling through the world and will definitely take some. I look forward to when it happens.

 

[blacklabrador]

Back to the subject at hand now that everyone expressed opinions on a certain poster...... I cleaned house this morning on my home PC. I have 2 casinos left standing, Riverbelle, and for god knows what reason, 3dice. They arent even close in fairness on payouts but I decided to give them another chance. They are on this ice though once again after depositing the last few times and once again, no decent wins.

- Club World = GONE, see ya, nice knowing you. What a refreshing change it was so play about 8 months ago for the 1st time on a RTG site after only MG sites. I would have some nice playback, a withdraw or 2 a week, and nice customer support and prompt payouts. 3 months ago, it changed. No one wins there anymore. Ever. Its nauseating reading all the posts of people losing on a daily basis and not getting bonus rounds on 500-1000 + spins. its hard to believe you will be in business anymore a year from now, good luck with your new stingy slots

- English harbour = Adios, nice knowing u long friend. You were the 1st casino I ever played on online yet my long streak of deposits and no oppurtunities to cash out anything led me to delete you. No real problems with you guys, in fact I would recommend a friend to you, maybe i just hit a cold streak.

- Casino Grand Bay = Bye Bye. You changed the whole format of the casino and went to a new software that flat out sucks. The number of CD's I get in the mail with free $50 bonuses are clearly because you have lost your loyalty base by changing everything. I wont be back, the games suck and the casino sucks.

+ Riverbelle, love ya. Cant say enough good things about you overall, payouts, customer service, and bonus offers. I trust this casino 100% and have no doubt that I will get my money every single time I withdraw.

? 3dice, hate ya. lol. You have fun games, great support, but the slots are tighter than anything I have ever seen online. Enzo is a cool dude, the other girls are great but numerous posts about people never winning on there is a red flag. I deleted you once, I will dabblle here and there now that i reinstalled you, but I dont imagine you will be around on my computer for long but who knows.

What it comes down to is everyone has their favorite casino for numerous different reasons. Bottom line is go with one you 100% TRUST , one you never ever had an issue with, and argument with, a bonus issue with, any kind of problems and we will all be much happier.

My personal opinion now is that it is not healthy for our bankrolls to have more than 2 or maybe even 3 casinos installed. Why torture yourself with the stress if you can trust them ? Gambling is suppose to be fun, entertaining, and for some, just a getaway for a few hours to relax and enjoy yourself. For some, this is no longer the case, fortunately for me, I realize that cream rises to the top, and I am done with the shenanigans of questionable casinos

 

[jod5413]

I want to derail this thread one more time, then I will be done.

I actually appreciate hearing the opinions of me by the members in this thread. Most of you are not my friends, in case you didn't know that. My friends I treat with respect as they do me, and they post honestly and are forthright with their opinions, just as I post honestly.

I tend to get mouthy (cranky old lady? ) but never without proof or cause, no matter what you think. I post honestly and say in public what so many of you do privately by PMs among your friends (Mavin, you know what I mean?). If that means I am childish, so be it.

I am not in a contest to see how popular I am. So, feel free to express your opinions any time, I actually think a lot of you are funny and I find you quite entertaining. However, since so many of you are "offended" by what I say, I would suggest you put me on ignore. That way you won't be so upset when I post my opinions in the future, alrighty then?

Jod

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty it's been some time that I had apologized to you in a thread, but I will always remember that you hadn't thanked it as acknowledgement, maybe you didn't come back to the thread, I don't know. So once again, here today I will apologize to you yet again. Because even though you can be very stubborn with your opinions against many of us, I respect you and appreciate your offerings. You may have totally dissagreed with myself and others many times, but you have never once made me feel ashamed for venting my views.

I really appreciate your words Mavin

Contrary to the beliefs of some, I do actually try to keep the discussion about the issue and not the person. The times I have deviated from that is when I have been personally insulted, and unfortunately it is usually the same people who cannot cope with someone asking legitimate questions about their theories etc. It comes back to what Max posted the other day about the 'because it is' mindset - anyone is welcome to post any theory they have, but they need to accept that putting these theories out in the public domain will attract both support and criticism, and the way one handles the criticism is what most readers use as a yardstick for their credibility (and that of their theories).

When the statement 'all online casinos are rigged and cheat' is made, there is seldom a realistic and logical explanation given beyond 'because I'm losing' or 'Ive lost 10 deposits in a row' or 'because I just think it is'.....and this is where the problem lies for me. You will also notice that when someone is on a winning streak they don't post stating that the casino must be rigged because they are winning too much or too often e.g. someone a while back hit 2 RF's in 2 days at the same casino- big result against the odds, but where are the 'the games are rigged' people then?

Anyway, I have always respected you Mavin because you avoid making it personal and I think you are a good person based on how and what you contribute to the forum. I'm sorry if I did forget to thank you when you posted an apology as I would normally always do that when someone directs a positive post at me, and I reckon I must not have gone back to that thread or chances are I would have done it

As for the derailing re: Jod......

Some of you need to get some Kool-Aid or something.

The thread has turned into a lynch mob out for another members' blood, and it is unacceptable. In fact, it is childish.....which is amazing given Jod has been accused of the same thing!

It is also really disappointing to see people thanking and nominating posts that have direct accusations/insults against another member. It smacks of that lynch mob mindset and it stinks.

If you cannot cope what another poster says, then use the IGNORE feature. If you don't agree with what they think, and you want to be an adult about it, then stick to the issues and accept that everyone is different and that nobody is perfect and that not everyone will get along.

The image I am left with after reading this thread is that of some redneck town hall meeting where someone stands up and shouts "that Jod woman is a bitch" and suddenly all these people start yelling "yeah she's a bitch".

It makes me sick.