Corrupt Online Gaming

[StaceyLee]

Great to see the handshakes

As this pub is obviously closing I would just like to say to 4OAK that even though you appear to have "crossed the line" (for want of better terminology), I hope that you find some sense of peace with your current turmoil.

I could be reading things wrong but I too feel that there are more pieces to your jigsaw than meet the eye, which makes it difficult to deduce all the factors that are contributing to your concerns and therefore what support is needed.

I have not experienced the demons you are facing and certainly don't envy your position, which is why I am limited in being able to extend a helping hand. But once again, I hope you are able to find resolution of sorts. And hopefully you have been able to gain something from this channel of communication.

All the best.
Cheers
StaceyLee

 

[CoolCat]

I am new here and have been reading this thread. I know my comment isn't gonna make any new friends. But no one here has the right to condemn 4oak comments. He said what was on his mind. Whether you want to admit it or not. Most members here are addicts. You can call it entertainment, fun and games, or whatever. But the amount of money wasted amongst the people here. Could easily pay many people's college tuitions, provide shelter for the homeless. Help those who has lost their jobs and are behind on necessities. But no you (including myself) rather give it away to the man behind the curtain. Then come here and ridicule a fellow member. Because he said whats on his mind. I read some of the threads like "Are you Up or Down this year?" And I just shake my head. Im sorry I just have to say it. Some of you are just clueless. You argue over RTG, MG, 3dice, Rival which one has the tightest slots. This is like drug users arguing over which dealer has the better dope. I remember when 3dice first started out. They had limited funds. Enzo is a smart business man. He catered to your needs. His slots bet limit was at a small set limit. After a period his homemade software grew and grew. He knew to keep you happy with fast payouts and great comps. In Return you would be back. See he had the best dope (if you will). As his casino grew. So did the slots betting limits. But you know who made this happen? The same addicts that come here and bash another member. Because he no longer like some of the dope that is being sold. Sad Sad Sad! And for those who don't like his comment about this place. Go sit in a couple of G.A. meetings. They will tell you to avoid places that promotes gambling. And once you're in recovery. You will began to see. The promotor was just as a bad as the casino.

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Casinomeister has a great site here, and IMO, a lot of integrity. There seems to be certain subjects that are "off limits" and/or "beyond discussion", however, and that in my mind is the main issue I have with this site.

A specific thread where the powers that be would not press a casino for a public answer or commit to utilzing their industry knowledge to divulge exactly what constitues "advantage playing" comes to mind as an example. This and other similar instances seem to me to be a compromise given to the casinos else they would not be agreeable to negotiate through PABs, etc., a sort of middle ground given by CM so that the site is not treated as a nemesis but rather as a mediator by the casinos in general. Of course, this keeps the cash flowing to the site as well. I understand why it happens, but wish it wasn't needed.

Online casinos, on the other hand, are for the most part, IMO, scum and cheaters. There may be a couple out there that are totally honest, but most "skim" the payout odds, or manipulate the deal, or just downright screw the player in the backside whenever and as often as they think they can get away with while still keeping the deposits flowing.

Do I have proof? No, I don't, but then again that would be almost impossible to obtain without being an insider. But the stakes are too big, the money is too easy, human nature is too corrupted, and I've seen way too much in "coincidences" that have robbed me of my share of winnings to think anything but the worst. This is why I no longer gamble online.

Before the casino apologists scream that it just isn't true because I can't prove it, allow me to point out that the opposite (that many online casinos are 100% legitimate) cannot be proven factual, either. So it's just a matter of what you individually believe, isn't it?

Some choose to think that online gaming is mostly on the up-and-up; I think that the casinos use this belief in order to empty your pockets. P.T. Barnum once remarked: "there's a sucker born every minute", and it is obvious to me that most online casinos are counting on it.

 

[jetset]

Okay, I'll finally chime in so that we can focus on the OP's opening post and hopefully we won't get distracted by the extra stuff

You'll need to be specific if you are trying to make a point here. Making sweeping comments doesn't do anyone a bit of good, unless of course you are venting. But since you are questioning my integrity, then you need to be specific.

You mention banning of members. The moderators and I are extremely tolerant when it comes to dishing out vacations or permanent 86s - the bottom line is we have guidelines on banishments; it's all spelled out here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum-faq/forum-policies/

No one gets banned for an opinion - it's how they present their opinions that gets them banned . And we adhere to a "three strikes yer out" policy. We are all members here - casino reps to be included. It's not us versus them - it's all us.

You mention that casino reps don't enter threatening threads? Who wants to enter a "threatening thread"? No thread should be threatening - they should be provocative or inquisitive - not threatening. Please remember casino reps do this stuff on their own time, and many don't get involved because either they are unaware, or they don't want to mis-speak. You need to be a bit understanding about all of this. The bottom line is that nothing is swept under the carpet. If you are going to make these kind of accusations, then be prepared to point out specifically where something has been purposely "covered up." I don't take this lightly.

It has been mentioned in this thread a number of times that there is corruption in nearly all types of business endeavors. This industry is no different than a number of them (think construction contracting, politics, and pharmaceuticals ). Corruption is no stranger to the online gaming community.

But that said, there are many, many good upstanding entities that far outnumber the bad. Ladbrokes, 32red, Betfred, etc., etc., etc. These are genuinely regulated and have extremely high profiles. I do not consider these companies nor their brethren to be corrupt. You are looking at the half empty glass when you throw these accusations around.

Back to Casinomeister. It's not all about me and what I think. I am an advocate of fair play - and I am the chief webmaster. It's the membership HERE that is the "watchdog" - not me alone. As mentioned, this is and always has been an information site. I and you (we) provide this information; it is up to the visitor/reader to make their own decisions based on what they see.

I've run this site for over twelve years, and I think I have found the balance between advocacy and promotion. I have never been motivated by money -people who know me personally know this - I'm motivated by interacting with people and providing a useful tool that members value. That's it.

So it's up to you; take it or leave it.

Good post, and perhaps a reminder to some here that false and carelessly used aspersions on the integrity of this site and its staff are taken seriously.

Posters often forget that there are real people behind the avatars and posts, with real potential for taking umbrage when unfair criticism or insult is levelled.

The biggest insult you can hand out to someone like Casinomeister is a lack of integrity, when all the history of this site indicates otherwise.

As he implies above - if you find this site fraudulent or offensive to your view then the decision to take it or leave it is entirely your own.

 

[kauphy]

:lolup

Ah shucks maxd, someones gotta stick up for us "folks that are at best deluded and at worst, simply empty headed"

yes i reamber being call names like that on this site again and again by the same people caz i would not agree with them.

if they can not get you to agree with them and go to the dark side then they start name calling and not only here but if they see you in other froms.

i had that happen to me just the other day.


i so agree with you cail.

 

[Stuff57]

Kudos !
I agree your post could have benefited from more specific content to strengthen the credibility of some of your statements. However I give you a major thumbs up for having the wherewithal to speak your mind knowing that it would go against popular opinion.
Being new here and not frequenting many forums I have not yet formed an opinion of this one.
However I do know that Gambling Forum Administrators have a very difficult task. Their income is dependant upon their affiliate status with the Casinos they Rep yet they also have a responsibility to their members to ensure they are presented with reputable Gaming Sites. With the current situation in the gambling world their task has become even harder as more and more casinos are becoming so blatantly scandalous.
From what my wife has told me this site is probably the best for their ability to balace the two!

 

[4 of a kind]

I swore to myself I would just express my opinion in my opening post and leave this thread alone. I already knew prior to posting the direction this thread was going to take, but didn’t care. In fact I could have listed the names and posted their comments for them to save them the trouble. But here I am again because when something is bothering me, be it right or wrong I just can’t keep my mouth shut. Especially when I know I’m getting screwed. I’ll keep this factual story short since I can’t get into many details anyhow. In fact I'm pretty certain this post will be removed.

A good friend of mine who trusted me (at one time) like a father trusts his son, who played online also and had the same doubts me and everyone else who are stupid enough to trust in them about the integrity and honesty of most online casinos came across some serious information.

Well unfortunately he was able to obtain irrefutable serious evidence of foul play on a particular casino software and shared this evidence with me who gave my word to remain silent till everything was properly put in place and decisions being made on what to do with it. This is not like the poker scandals where a few insiders allegedly were the ones not only deceiving the players but the companies themselves. This information would be considered and viewed completely different.

After pondering back and forth for weeks the decision was made to remain silent for so many reasons it would take several more pages to explain why, and just utilize the information for personal gain and obviously walk away from online gaming.

I wasn’t happy with this decision but agreed to remain silent. After days turned into weeks, then months, it was eating away at my stomach. No one here would obviously know what it’s like to read and post in threads knowing what I know, forced to talk in circles being careful not to cross the line. I had my personal doubts about online gaming for the last couple of years and always expressed my doubts in conversations. But after this took place it should be obvious to most when my posting took the massive turn to 100% negativity.

Then I a person who believes a hand shake is as meaningful as a signed contract (I guess at one time I did) decided on my own to seek opinions on this data. Being selective all I forwarded was a very small sample showing certain internal access to the software is indeed available before getting into more serious details. Shortly after this my friend who had no idea what I did was visited in person at his home residence.

I refuse to discuss this issue any further and understand this story will be viewed has a figment of my conspiracy imagination. So here I am again opening the doors for ridicule. Please don’t let me hold you all back any longer reading this. Get to work...

Of course I can't post the evidence for the love and respect I have for my friend nor will I. I'd like to say for all you players who believe what the casinos and everyone else who want to tell you how safe and honest they are with no proof, my story should then be viewed no differently.

In closing I would like to use Bryans quote in a previous post here...

So it's up to you; take it or leave it.

P.S. jod5431, just mentioning your name in my post is actually lowering my standards, but your pretty much like a pair of pocket aces that get cracked on the river. Useless...

 

[Nifty29]

OK 4OAK.

So let's say I believe you that you and your friend have irrefutable evidence of something sinister with a certain casino software (and I am not saying I absolutely don't believe you).

What to do next?

If your friend has been visited because of information you leaked/disseminated, then I would imagine they probably know who you are. The question is have you been 'visited' also, and if not, why not? After all, you know just the same as him so surely you are a similar risk/threat to those who would insist this information be kept from players.

You did not indicate the nature of the information you have, other than it being 'data' of some kind and that some kind of unauthorised access is available to casino operators. If you were in the shoes of those reading this thread, would you not be asking more questions to ascertain whether you really do have this information and how it affects your gaming experience? I am 100% sure you would, and therefore you must be prepared to field those questions to some degree or face ridicule. After all, you intimate that this is very serious information not just a few guys cheating.

As I said, I am not inclined to dismiss your claims out of hand. I have always stated that if I see or hear about something concrete then I am all ears, so the floor is yours if you want to convince me.

I also see that you and your friend are happy to use this information to your advantage (and I assume to everyone else's disadvantage), so doesn't that make you just as dodgy as the operators involved, especially since you won't share the information with anyone else?

My last questions, for now, is why haven't you shared this information with Bryan? Surely he is discreet enough and has enough contacts to authenticate your claims? I put it to you that this would be the perfect avenue to vindicate yourself and expose those operators who are 'fleecing' all of us. Why be part of a gambling information portal and not share what you know?

One last note is that what you said here:

P.S. jod5431, just mentioning your name in my post is actually lowering my standards, but your pretty much like a pair of pocket aces that get cracked on the river. Useless...

...is completely unacceptable IMO.

Call someone's opinion 'useless', call someone's theories 'useless' , but don't put yourself on a such a high pedestal that you can judge the usefulness of anyone else as a person. It's disgusting. Instead of throwing around judgements of people you don't even know, try taking a look at yourself. If you want credibility, you are going about it the wrong way.

You stepped well over the line and you should be a man and apologise.

P.S. Don't you love the high 5's for a post that contained personal insults against another member? Some people need to grow up.

 

[Webzcas]

I refuse to discuss this issue any further and understand this story will be viewed has a figment of my conspiracy imagination. So here I am again opening the doors for ridicule. Please don’t let me hold you all back any longer reading this. Get to work...

Oh please. Sorry but I don't buy this. You make sweeping statements, alleging ALL online casinos are corrupt and bent, tarring them with the same brush. But yet, refuse to share your evidence, even privately with a third party like Bryan.

You cannot post publically what you have, not only questioning the integrity of ALL online casinos, but also the integrity of the owner of this site and then fail to deliver the evidence.

Having worked for an operator, in the IT Department no less, where I was the manager of the department, for a very high profile Microgaming Powered Casino. I can tell you straight now, that your comments have cast a doubt over all online casino software companies including Microgaming. When I know for a fact that there is absolutely nothing wrong with MGS whatsoever.

I am afraid in my mind, unless you back up your allegations with fact, then I will consider you nothing more than a typical message board troll.

This is my opinion as a member of this forum and not a moderator.

 

[BingoT]

4 of a kind all I can say is you started this and now I say finish it.
I think the members here at CM's needs to know the whole truth.
Just post your findings and let it take it's course.
I think the members here should hear you out. or let at least let Bryan know because this is his home.
Thanks
~T~

 

[blacklabrador]

OK 4OAK.

So let's say I believe you that you and your friend have irrefutable evidence of something sinister with a certain casino software (and I am not saying I absolutely don't believe you).

What to do next?

If your friend has been visited because of information you leaked/disseminated, then I would imagine they probably know who you are. The question is have you been 'visited' also, and if not, why not? After all, you know just the same as him so surely you are a similar risk/threat to those who would insist this information be kept from players.

You did not indicate the nature of the information you have, other than it being 'data' of some kind and that some kind of unauthorised access is available to casino operators. If you were in the shoes of those reading this thread, would you not be asking more questions to ascertain whether you really do have this information and how it affects your gaming experience? I am 100% sure you would, and therefore you must be prepared to field those questions to some degree or face ridicule. After all, you intimate that this is very serious information not just a few guys cheating.

As I said, I am not inclined to dismiss your claims out of hand. I have always stated that if I see or hear about something concrete then I am all ears, so the floor is yours if you want to convince me.

I also see that you and your friend are happy to use this information to your advantage (and I assume to everyone else's disadvantage), so doesn't that make you just as dodgy as the operators involved, especially since you won't share the information with anyone else?

My last questions, for now, is why haven't you shared this information with Bryan? Surely he is discreet enough and has enough contacts to authenticate your claims? I put it to you that this would be the perfect avenue to vindicate yourself and expose those operators who are 'fleecing' all of us. Why be part of a gambling information portal and not share what you know?

One last note is that what you said here:



...is completely unacceptable IMO.

Call someone's opinion 'useless', call someone's theories 'useless' , but don't put yourself on a such a high pedestal that you can judge the usefulness of anyone else as a person. It's disgusting. Instead of throwing around judgements of people you don't even know, try taking a look at yourself. If you want credibility, you are going about it the wrong way.

You stepped well over the line and you should be a man and apologise.

P.S. Don't you love the high 5's for a post that contained personal insults against another member? Some people need to grow up.

I disagree, I will say this then leave the Jod thing alone. Jod brings it on herself, if she can't post like an adult and bring anything to the table then she should expect to be treated the way others are treating her in this thread. I just shake my head at some of the utter crap that Jod spews at others for no other reason than she is miserable in her own skin. As for your comment about the high 5's for bashing another poster, take a look at the hate posts that Jod got thanked for over the last couple weeks. This is NOT a one way street here, she gets thanks on hers but when its the other way around its unacceptable? Good grief, are u related to her?

As for 4oak having info on a casino being crooked, who cares either way? The stats on casinos speak VOLUMES and one can form their own opinion based on that alone. Sorry but 20 something deposits on Club World for $60 and never getting my balance over $250 tells me their software payouts have changed dramatically in the last 3 months. That among dozens of others posts reflecting the EXACT SAME results on RTG sites. I don't need inside info, I just send them to the trash bin and move on

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Oh please. Sorry but I don't buy this.....

Having worked for an operator, in the IT Department no less, where I was the manager of the department, for a very high profile Microgaming Powered Casino.... When I know for a fact that there is absolutely nothing wrong with MGS whatsoever.

So what proof do you have that it is a "fact" that there is nothing wrong with MGS "whatsoever"? You question someone's assertions because they offer no evidence, then you make sweeping assertions yourself without any specific detail either - not exactly a winning debate position.

The fact is that those forum participants who want the rest of us to believe that online gaming is generally fair (unless corrupted by a rogue operator) always seem to point out that those who make assertions otherwise have no proof of their position. Fair enough, but I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO OFFER IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT ONLINE GAMBLING, OR ANY SMALLER DEFINED SECTOR THEREOF, IS NOT MANIPULATED (above normal house advantage) FOR THE HOUSE'S GAIN IN SOMEWAY. Not your opinion mind you, or even a preponderance of evidence, but absolute proof.

If you can't offer such, then you have no logical right to shout down those of us who believe that online gambling is by-and-large a fraud simply by asserting that we "have no proof". You'll have to do better than that to convince me and many others on this site that we are just sore losers.

 

[Nate]

After pondering back and forth for weeks the decision was made to remain silent for so many reasons it would take several more pages to explain why, and just utilize the information for personal gain and obviously walk away from online gaming.

I wasn’t happy with this decision but agreed to remain silent.

OK 4OAK.

I also see that you and your friend are happy to use this information to your advantage (and I assume to everyone else's disadvantage), so doesn't that make you just as dodgy as the operators involved, especially since you won't share the information with anyone else?

By reading the post it is clear what the OP intended. Firstly, he had the opportunity to use the information to his advantage AND Remain silent. He was not happy about taking advantage, BUT remained silent.

I dont see how this makes him dodgy?

P.S. Don't you love the high 5's for a post that contained personal insults against another member? Some people need to grow up.

One thing that is evident here is the following: I was never indicative of Bryan or CM being shady at the very least. I merely sought clarity on an issue I.e - AUDITS. jod5431 began throwing insults my way... I replied, thats that. I cannot believe because the post from 4OAK contained a small line aimed at jod, you crit people who have thanked the post. FYI, my 'High 5' as you would call it was for clarity on WHY 4oak has chosen NOT to continue further and not related to jod... My day does not revolve around slagging and thanking people for slagging others... seriously

The Irony is, Posts that were primarily insults and blatant slagging were thanked and nominated. Where are your comments on those?

Nate

 

[Webzcas]

So what proof do you have that it is a "fact" that there is nothing wrong with MGS "whatsoever"? You question someone's assertions because they offer no evidence, then you make sweeping assertions yourself without any specific detail either - not exactly a winning debate position.

Ok. I worked for Ladbrokes. I can confirm that no one at Ladbrokes had access to any of the gaming software on the casino. MGS are the only people with access to the gaming servers and this I believe is still the case today. The casino and this goes for any MGS casino, has no ability to change the percentage payouts on any of the games

In addition the casino was back then regularly audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers, each and every month, to ensure the random number generator for the casino, was indeed random. In turn they provided payout percentage reports.

The assertion I made is based on fact, having first hand worked for an operator for five years. Rather than in the case of 4oak state something controversial knowing it would be lapped up by conspiracy theorists, yet failing convenently by way of using a neat 'get out of jail my friend is at risk card', to provide evidence to back this up.

 

[ksech]

4oak, I am wondering why you have felt the need to open yourself back up to what you consider ridicule and biased opinions. You continue to verbally flaunt you have "insider" information of wrongdoing, but are unwilling to try to work with a third party to cure the problem. Do you want blind faith in what you are proclaiming? This isn't meant as a blast towards you, I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. I agreed with parts of your initial post. I'm not a poker player (just not smart enough to figure out the dynamics of the game), so some of your prior posts have been informative for me as a reader.

I don't condone the verbal diatribes some are prone to express, but I am not forced to read them either. It's a choice on what I conceive as truth and what I don't. I didn't feel I was getting a fair game of slots on any platform, hence I CHOSE to stop playing. But that is just my own personal feelings on the matter. I'm not trying to sway anyone elses' opinion on this issue. It's mine and mine alone.

You throw out a bone, but are unwilling to give ANY tidbit of fact as proof. Give the players something valid to chew on and ponder. There must be some small tidbit you can give without compromising yourself or your friend.

I do want to point out, I am disappointed in the fact that you had to throw in the last part about Jod. Wouldn't it have been much simpler to make use of the ignore function?

 

[Nate]

Rather than in the case of 4oak state something controversial knowing it would be lapped up by conspiracy theorists, yet failing convenently by way of using a neat 'get out of jail my friend is at risk card', to provide evidence to back this up.

Oh trust me Webzcas, its far from a Conspiracy... Just because I support his statement, does not land me in the category of Conspiracy Theorist. I have not 'lapped' up his theories either...

I do not know if I would divulge such information IF somebody was at risk. Putting a friend at risk for the benefit of an internet forum is betrayal. I do not for one second believe 4oak has NO evidence.... I bet he has plenty...

 

[Webzcas]

Nate, don't get me wrong. If there is something tangible that 4oak has, then he needs to share it and I along with everyone else are all ears.

By not doing so, yet still strongly alleging some wrongdoing, is tantamount to trolling in my book. If for whatever reason he cannot trust a respected third party such as Bryan, there are I am sure other individuals who he could approach. How about Michael Shackleford the Wizard for one?

Whichever way you spin it, what he has stated in this thread, requires hard cold facts to back up his posting.

Unless he does this, then IMO this is a classic troll thread which unfortunately is getting the reaction and attention he desired.

As for your point about getting his friend in trouble. Surely by raising the issue in a public fora environment is already doing that. All far too convenient if you ask me. It would have been much more prudent to discreetly approach a respected and trusted third party privately.

 

[blacklabrador]

Ok. I worked for Ladbrokes. I can confirm that no one at Ladbrokes had access to any of the gaming software on the casino. MGS are the only people with access to the gaming servers and this I believe is still the case today. The casino and this goes for any MGS casino, has no ability to change the percentage payouts on any of the games

In addition the casino was back then regularly audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers, each and every month, to ensure the random number generator for the casino, was indeed random. In turn they provided payout percentage reports.

The assertion I made is based on fact, having first hand worked for an operator for five years. Rather than in the case of 4oak state something controversial knowing it would be lapped up by conspiracy theorists, yet failing convenently by way of using a neat 'get out of jail my friend is at risk card', to provide evidence to back this up.

This is indeed correct. I remember looking at the monthly payout percentages on Riverbelle that were backed by price waterhouse, however I dont have the pure MG software anymore being in the US. I wonder if it still has that option in the software?

 

[ksech]

Oh trust me Webzcas, its far from a Conspiracy... Just because I support his statement, does not land me in the category of Conspiracy Theorist. I have not 'lapped' up his theories either...

I do not know if I would divulge such information IF somebody was at risk. Putting a friend at risk for the benefit of an internet forum is betrayal. I do not for one second believe 4oak has NO evidence.... I bet he has plenty...

Apparently his "friend" had no such qualms about involving him in this. Would you imperil a true friend like this? And if you were this friend, wouldn't you do everything in your power to try to legally resolve this to protect yourself and your friend? There must be someone/ someplace this person can go to for legal help (unless they CHOOSE not too). Just an observation...

 

[Webzcas]

Yes, they are still audited monthly. But they are not allowed to mention the auditor anymore. I believe in most cases it is still PWC though. It is also stated on the websites of the casinos in most instances.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Yes, they are still audited monthly. But they are not allowed to mention the auditor anymore. I believe in most cases it is still PWC though. It is also stated on the websites of the casinos in most instances.

Those transparent audits.

The "Too Big To Fail" Banks in the US had stress tests and with a little change in FASB accounting rules granted only to the insolvent subject banks by the US Gov. in 2008, the TBTF banks are instantly solvent upon audit. Fact is if those toxic assets still had to be "marked to market" then or even today, all the TBTF's are actually insolvent. More bonuses paid by the US taxpayer for these broke institutions. Audits and lack of transparency=LOL

E-Cogra and audits, Shackleford's purchaser of his audit business and audits, PWC and audits, et al and audits=LOLOLOLOL!

 

[Nate]

Nate, don't get me wrong. If there is something tangible that 4oak has, then he needs to share it and I along with everyone else are all ears.

By not doing so, yet still strongly alleging some wrongdoing, is tantamount to trolling in my book. If for whatever reason he cannot trust a respected third party such as Bryan, there are I am sure other individuals who he could approach. How about Michael Shackleford the Wizard for one?

Whichever way you spin it, what he has stated in this thread, requires hard cold facts to back up his posting.

Unless he does this, then IMO this is a classic troll thread which unfortunately is getting the reaction and attention he desired.

As for your point about getting his friend in trouble. Surely by raising the issue in a public fora environment is already doing that. All far too convenient if you ask me. It would have been much more prudent to discreetly approach a respected and trusted third party privately.

I agree with you 100%!! The whole idea WAS to expose this issue from my understanding. It got to a level where issues arose and people were tracked down and visited. This IMPO is enough to tell you ' You're messing with the wrong people'.

Websites generate revenue streams from Casinos... Could it be possible that it was not appropriate to address these issues with Third Parties for other reasons? {No insinuations or insults to CM or others intended}. If 4oak intended to expose and stopped, he has very good reasons for not doing so. He has reasons for not involving a 3rd party as well.

Apparently his "friend" had no such qualms about involving him in this. Would you imperil a true friend like this? And if you were this friend, wouldn't you do everything in your power to try to legally resolve this to protect yourself and your friend? There must be someone/ someplace this person can go to for legal help (unless they CHOOSE not too). Just an observation...

Ksech, legal help in the real world does NOT exist where corruption is rife. Government officials and police are easily manipulated when money is involved. I have first hand experience of this and would prefer not to go into detail on the matter.

Ask yourself the question... What makes a respectable member, who is logical in his thought process do a 180 degree turn and assume the worst? What would make him want to tell the world and then all of a sudden shut up about the scenario? Was the experience he had serious enough to say 'it exists' but for the life of me, i CANNOT divulge for reasons of safety?

I think we are giving 4OAK less credit than he really deserves... If individuals on this thread wish to dismiss it as hogwash, they may do so, but a continual roasting of the member will not bear any more fruit than his intial post did. I believe we should be patient on the matter and hopefully, he will be in a position to divulge more.

Nate

 

[The Dude]

To be fair, 4ofakind did share with me some screenshots that I forwarded to the software provider for comment. They never got back to me, but this was in late summer when I was not around too much. I'll chase it down once more.

 

[The Dude]

...
P.S. jod5431, just mentioning your name in my post is actually lowering my standards, but your pretty much like a pair of pocket aces that get cracked on the river. Useless...

Last warning - next time it's a suspension.

 

[blacklabrador]

Let's put the Jod bashing in the past, me included. Hopefully though, she can realize she is quite offensive at times and just tone it down a bit. I would like to get along with every member on here so I am calling a truce Jod, deal?

 

[rouletteguy]

Well I've said it once and I'll say it again, We as human beings will never completely trust somthing we cannot physically see in action. No amount of regulation will ever change that. There will alway's be those who cry foul when they lose. But give it time Government regulation is coming soon enough. At least for Canada it seems a definite thing.

I think the issue is the reel strips they are not entirely random they are designed to return a fixed percentage to players over time. This is the same for table games and slots. With a table game you can make a conscious decision to vary your method of play. Therefore a pre-determined reel strip could not offer a guaranteed fixed RTP it would in essence be a random game.
That is a huge risk for a shoe string budget casino. Nope I think the same software a chess computer uses is very similar to what you get when you play table games. But only at some casino's.

Casinomeister is the best we have right now to advocate for us and I choose to believe that it would be piss poor business practice for Bailey to bite the hand that feeds him. The reality is if he were taking kick backs or screwing over his following he wouldn't have anything. It would be leaked somwhere with proof and his rep would be destroyed.

PAB works ask the thousands who have been successful with it and why in hell would Brian be worried about a casino's advertising when there are many others who would pay for the space on his site?

 

[WyldGirl]

Nate, don't get me wrong. If there is something tangible that 4oak has, then he needs to share it and I along with everyone else are all ears.
Whichever way you spin it, what he has stated in this thread, requires hard cold facts to back up his posting.
Unless he does this, then IMO this is a classic troll thread which unfortunately is getting the reaction and attention he desired.

OK I was content for some time just following this thread but now in all fairness to 4oak I am gonna jump my daring butt right in the middle of this fire.
It does not matter what evidence is put before the players because they do not care to see the trth as then they would have to admit that their continued play was absolute proof of an ADDICTION!

And I am not talking out of my other end when I say this as have already proved it on 2occassions. I put a matter before the players showing absolute proof that that a casino had an error in the bonus calculations as $999.43 had been wagered on a $8.10 which had a $243 wager requirement on it and still at the end of play with zero in my cash account there was 1 penny still in the bonus!.
Would love to go into more details but the issue is being filed in the PaB!

On another occassion I posted showing absolutely that a pattern of every time I would win more than a couple of dollars the game would spin out of control then boot me out to begin all over!
I even had a chat support talking on chat while watching my game do this (with a ss of her admitting she could see it happening.)

Both times there ws no favorable resolve - well if a $10 BONUS with a 30 x wager is considered resolve then ~
AND both times the same group of players did nothing but spout childish insults and antogonistic replys.

And we wonder why nobody brings anything real to the table

===

Now a word to jod5431.
You truely must hate yourself because all I ever see is you jumping into any post, where someone has practiced their right to free speech, to begin one of your childish attacks that most people outgrow by the age of 5. Try getting an educatuion and then it might become possible for you to bring something worthy of reading to the table!

To this board and it's administration I apologize if I have crossed any lines as disrespect to this site or it's staff was not my intent.

 

[just play]

What the hell is wrong with everyone? Why is Jod's name being brought up in such a terrible way?

I must have missed something where she said something negative to someone...BUT, it's ok for other people to say negative things to her?

Think about it...does this make sense? You can't have it both ways.

I say your a jerk....I get slammed....then other people say I'm a jerk and it's ok???

Am I friends with Jod, I would say no, I don't consider people at an online forum friends unless we converse out of the forum, that's just me. Do I talk back and forth with her in posts, sure, but I do that with many others as well....there is a double standard here, and it pretty much sucks.



Onto the OP...I also have my doubts about online casinos being fair, don't we all in some way or another?

 

[De Beuker]

Funny how the Truly Random Advocates here always ask for proof.
But as soon as something that could be seen as proof is posted here, all the Truly Random Advocates are nowhere to be found, and the silence becomes deafening.

Webcaz, you as a former IT department manager should be able to explain to me how an event described in this thread could possibly happen on truly random software.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/50-free-spins-at-aspinalls-0-nothing-nada.40523/

And thats the problem.
No matter what anyone comes up with, there's always a minimalistic, astronomical tiny little chance that it actually might happen.

The fact that these chances are so extremely small that it would take the entire worlds population to spin this game 24/7 for the next million years doesn't count?

Miss Token decided to post about it, but how many more times did this happen? Nobody knows.
Maybe it WAS the first time ever, maybe other players ran into this but just took the casinos explanation that it was just a matter of bad luck..

 

[blacklabrador]

What the hell is wrong with everyone? Why is Jod's name being brought up in such a terrible way?

I must have missed something where she said something negative to someone...BUT, it's ok for other people to say negative things to her?

Think about it...does this make sense? You can't have it both ways.

I say your a jerk....I get slammed....then other people say I'm a jerk and it's ok???

Am I friends with Jod, I would say no, I don't consider people at an online forum friends unless we converse out of the forum, that's just me. Do I talk back and forth with her in posts, sure, but I do that with many others as well....there is a double standard here, and it pretty much sucks.



Onto the OP...I also have my doubts about online casinos being fair, don't we all in some way or another?

You clearly missed some of Jods posts over the past few days if you have to ask such a question.

 

[just play]

You clearly missed some of Jods posts over the past few days if you have to ask such a question.

Yes, I probably did.

But again....she sucks, but everyone else doesn't?

Please inform me how that isn't a double standard, I would really like to know.


For anyone....(I'm using me as an example) I say some negative things to some posters, get slammed because of it...THEN...posters say negative things about me and it's ok?

PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT LOGIC (if you can)

 

[The Dude]

Admin stuff

Just a friendly reminder that I'd like this thread to stay focused. If anyone would like to, please feel free to start a new thread about member bashing in the Attic or other appropriate place. Thank you

 

[jod5413]

Let's put the Jod bashing in the past, me included. Hopefully though, she can realize she is quite offensive at times and just tone it down a bit. I would like to get along with every member on here so I am calling a truce Jod, deal?

You clearly missed some of Jods posts over the past few days if you have to ask such a question.

That was a short truce, I think.

4oak, I think you are talking about Scuter? If so, please share the info with Bryan, because what was being said by him on Webzcas' forum sounds like your story. If it is anywhere close to being true about the things he said, that would definitely be something to spread around on forums. The more people that know about it, the less chance any one person would be in trouble or danger.

 

[just play]

Just a friendly reminder that I'd like this thread to stay focused. If anyone would like to, please feel free to start a new thread about member bashing in the Attic or other appropriate place. Thank you

Sorry Bryan...I didn't know there was a double standard here...and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction.


*my mouth shutting begins now*

 

[The Dude]

Sorry Bryan...I didn't know there was a double standard here...and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction.


*my mouth shutting begins now*

No double standard here. There is no flaming in this forum, and those who flame and get caught are usually verbally warned or spanked. No big deal.

/derail

Back to the topic at hand. I think I know what 4ofakind is getting at. In August, he forwarded me screenshots that show RTG's Goldbeard RTP being changed from 95% to 97.5%. What is unusual about these screenshots is that the operators who saw these told me they had no such permissions to do so (I think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere), in other words this was a different version of the RTG backend.

Today RTG has gotten back to me on this, and these screen shots are from the numero-uno administrators back end. This is what a casino owner would see. Now as discussed in previous threads about RTG RTP, the person with this access can only change the RTP with the full consent of RTG. This has been done here. What is a big deal is that some affiliate manger (who I believe was fired) had access to this and was acting the fool telling people he could make changes at a whim. He should have never been allowed that sort of access - and I believe that the casino Casino33 went down the tubes anyway.

But who is to say which casino this was - it was never identified on the screen shots.

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

So is this the seed of what is deemed "corrupt" in this thread? Changes being made on the RTP of 2.5% by someone who should have never had this access? I can think of a lot worst things to get riled up about.

 

[takethemoney]

No double standard here. There is no flaming in this forum, and those who flame and get caught are usually verbally warned or spanked. No big deal.

/derail

Back to the topic at hand. I think I know what 4ofakind is getting at. In August, he forwarded me screenshots that show RTG's Goldbeard RTP being changed from 95% to 97.5%. What is unusual about these screenshots is that the operators who saw these told me they had no such permissions to do so (I think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere), in other words this was a different version of the RTG backend.

Today RTG has gotten back to me on this, and these screen shots are from the numero-uno administrators back end. This is what a casino owner would see. Now as discussed in previous threads about RTG RTP, the person with this access can only change the RTP with the full consent of RTG. This has been done here. What is a big deal is that some affiliate manger (who I believe was fired) had access to this and was acting the fool telling people he could make changes at a whim. He should have never been allowed that sort of access - and I believe that the casino Casino33 went down the tubes anyway.

But who is to say which casino this was - it was never identified on the screen shots.

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

So is this the seed of what is deemed "corrupt" in this thread? Changes being made on the RTP of 2.5% by someone who should have never had this access? I can think of a lot worst things to get riled up about.

And, from what I understand 1.5% of the money wagered goes into the the Random Jackpots pool. But.....we have to believe that those settings are the only settings available, based on what we are told by people who have an interest in us believing what they say. I personally find this suspect, therefore no longer play them. It just seems that there is an awful lot of losing for a 95% + RTP. Anyway, I am following the advice I've been given by others by not playing.

 

[funeral979]

I have to assume that there is much more to this story than seeing the RTP of a slot change from 95% to 97.5%.

Call me stupid, but how can this information be used for personal gain?? Just because you can lose a little less over the long term?

Anyhow, 4OAK seems to be much more concerned with videopoker/table game fairness, and whether these games are RTP driven. This seems to be the crux of his concerns over the past 6 months.

 

[cheekymonkey]

Online gambling may be corrupt, it may not. But you can say this for a lot of things in life, especially in gambling - horse racing, greyhounds etc etc.

However, I do think that to be able to gamble online is totally irresponsible by all parties involved - the casino, the player and whoever else comes in to it.

With these outrageous betting limits on slots (now up to about £500 a spin in some places, possibly more) and also with roulette and blackjack (betting £1,000s per hands/spin) it's a sure road to disaster.

It's absolutely disgusting to think that you can sign in to a website, enter your debit/credit details and spend your life savings in a matter of a few hours or even, minutes.

Stop now. Let's go back to our parents era, or grandparents. A night out at the casino was fun in those days. Not anymore and especially not online.

The only way to beat the casinos is by NOT PLAYING at the casinos.

Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

 

[The Dude]

...Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

But the thing is, a lot of people enjoy it - including me and quite a number of our members. Many of whom gamble with money budgeted just for that - and that's it.

It's a choice. You chose what to do online. No one makes these choices for you; you are the master of your own domain.

And to say gambling needs to stop - that would be like saying people need to stop making decisions. Because that is what gambling simply is - a decision making process. You chose to either bet on black, or bet on red. Hold the Ace, or hold the King and Queen...it goes on and on. Gambling is human nature. You do this every time you make a decision. Do you buy the VW or buy the Volvo? Which school do you send your kids to? Which doctor is the best one? Do you bet on red or bet on black?

Become the master of your domain - don't let other people do the thinking for you.

 

[silcnlayc]

Casinomeister: It's a choice

Absolutely agree. Only you can be your own enemy. Gambling is like any other past time a person chooses to do. If taken to extreme, it can become something unappealing and ruin you just as any other vice one has if taken tot he extreme. People die from over eating...should we stop eating? People die from dringking , should we stop drinking? People die while driving, flying etc...get the picture..The only dangerous thing about gambling is YOURSELF. If you have a problem...seek help.

I use my spendable income gambling...I do not go out to dine or drink or movies..(unless all are free of course) I choose to dabble in gambling with those funds...because they actually at times give a nice return unlike the dining out and drinking, all the return you get there is the bathroom after a few hours...

So, there are choices in life...good or bad...we all have free will. Some give up their free will....for one reason or other..

.

 

[Tengil]

The thing with gambling tough is that you dont choose if you become addicted. More opportunities to gamble leads to more addicts.

And gambling is harmful for the economy, online gambling even more as it lacks many of the positive externalities that B&M gambling has.
And comparing to other addictions, you cant drink or do drugs over the internet so I see cheekymonkeys point to some extent.

In Finland we have some kind of slots or VPs in basically every store, gas station etc which has lead to that some 110 000 people has some kind of gambling problem. Quite much for a country with a population of little over 5,3 million.

But online gambling is here to stay so strict regulation like in France seems to be the only way to go. Where BTW not a single operator offering casino games has been accepted AFAIK.

 

[silcnlayc]

spiderlegz :The thing with gambling tough is that you dont choose if you become addicted. More opportunities to gamble leads to more addicts.

I understand where cheekymonkey is coming from also, but you have to put in to perspective. Food is all around people also and the USA has become one of the largest, most morbidly obese country there is due to many addicted to food.

So, yes, there are other addictions that can KILL all around us...but you still have CHOICES. If one chose to sit on the couch, and eat and become 600 lbs...are we to remove food from all stores etc because some have this addictive personality? Gambling does not kill...it can ruin you, unlike some other addictions..that can truly kill you...

.

 

[Tengil]

I understand where cheekymonkey is coming from also, but you have to put in to perspective. Food is all around people also and the USA has become one of the largest, most morbidly obese country there is due to many addicted to food. So, yes, there are other addictions that can KILL all around us...but you still have CHOICES. If one chose to sit on the couch, and eat and become 600 lbs...are we to remove food from all stores etc because some have this addictive personality? Gambling does not kill...it can ruin you, unlike some other addictions..that can truly kill you...

.

Well people must to eat to survive.

Plus gambling problems can lead to suicide or killing people. A few years ago we had a case in Finland when a father killed his wife and two children because of gambling addiction. Huge debts and shame lead to that.

Some peoples brains work differently hence why some become addicted to gambling almost instantly and some over time. The choice one have is of course never to play for starters.

Edit: gambling has existed like forever but video slots which are by far the most addictive has only been around since the 90s.

2nd edit: a bit OT, could make up for an interesting discussion how to decrease or/and limit problem gambling.

 

[Nate]

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

I believe that this is just a 'small' issue in the greater scheme of things. 4OAK would not make a mountain outta a mole hill....

2.5% in the greater scheme and for any businesses bottom line can mean the difference between PROFIT and LOSS... 2.5% is a BIG deal IMPO...Set a Video Poker from 99.7 RTP to 97.2 and we see a significant difference.... If 2.5% was not such a big deal, why don't some Casino's increase the RTP by 2.5%?

They won't, because it makes a difference...

Nate

 

[felicie]

I want to derail this thread one more time, then I will be done.

I actually appreciate hearing the opinions of me by the members in this thread. Most of you are not my friends, in case you didn't know that. My friends I treat with respect as they do me, and they post honestly and are forthright with their opinions, just as I post honestly.

I tend to get mouthy (cranky old lady? ) but never without proof or cause, no matter what you think. I post honestly and say in public what so many of you do privately by PMs among your friends (Mavin, you know what I mean?). If that means I am childish, so be it.

I am not in a contest to see how popular I am. So, feel free to express your opinions any time, I actually think a lot of you are funny and I find you quite entertaining. However, since so many of you are "offended" by what I say, I would suggest you put me on ignore. That way you won't be so upset when I post my opinions in the future, alrighty then?

Jod

Just one thing and I'm going too jod. I think you have a wonderful sense of humor and it isn't your opinion on things that offends. It is the attack mode you go into first imo.
I know you think I'm empty headed or delusional and you're probably right to some degree but did you also know empty headed & delusional is what I deal with 24/7 365 days of the year with my mom? maybe, maybe not and that's not important anyway. What's important I think is that we all try to treat each other the way we would like to be treated ourselves which might explain a big part of this thread. peace

 

[hitobito2005]

Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

Maybe you should move to the Middle East or China if you don't like freedom.

 

[maxd]

Plus gambling problems can lead to suicide or killing people. A few years ago we had a case in Finland when a father killed his wife and two children because of gambling addiction.

No, a person like that kills because he was a homicidal freak. At worst gambling addiction may have helped nudge him a little closer to the edge a little sooner than might otherwise have been the case.

People have said similar things for yonks: "guns made him kill" or "drugs made him do it" or alcohol or his boring job or spicy corn chips were supposedly to blame.

To paraphase an old one: gambling doesn't kill people, people kill people.

 

[vinylweatherman]

No double standard here. There is no flaming in this forum, and those who flame and get caught are usually verbally warned or spanked. No big deal.

/derail

Back to the topic at hand. I think I know what 4ofakind is getting at. In August, he forwarded me screenshots that show RTG's Goldbeard RTP being changed from 95% to 97.5%. What is unusual about these screenshots is that the operators who saw these told me they had no such permissions to do so (I think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere), in other words this was a different version of the RTG backend.

Today RTG has gotten back to me on this, and these screen shots are from the numero-uno administrators back end. This is what a casino owner would see. Now as discussed in previous threads about RTG RTP, the person with this access can only change the RTP with the full consent of RTG. This has been done here. What is a big deal is that some affiliate manger (who I believe was fired) had access to this and was acting the fool telling people he could make changes at a whim. He should have never been allowed that sort of access - and I believe that the casino Casino33 went down the tubes anyway.

But who is to say which casino this was - it was never identified on the screen shots.

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

So is this the seed of what is deemed "corrupt" in this thread? Changes being made on the RTP of 2.5% by someone who should have never had this access? I can think of a lot worst things to get riled up about.

This is STILL a problem though, since this is NOT exactly what we have been told about this before. The previous statement was that an operator had to request the change from RTG, and RTG would implement it. Further, no more changes for another 6 months.

This IS somewhat different. Now we see that the owner CAN make such changes, but should get permission from RTG. HOWEVER, the changes are made from the OWNER'S console, NOT by RTG themselves. Whilst permission is required, what is to stop the owner from just going ahead and doing it anyway. Virtual casinos are NOT going to let a matter of RTG denying them permission to stop them from going ahead anyway, and unless RTG are monitoring continuously, and thoroughly, they may never notice that such changes have been made. I am sure rogue owners will make sure of this to the best of their ability, such as making sure all gets "changed back" for "audit day". It also seems that operators were not COMPELLED to upgrade to this new back end, and some may still have the old version where ANYONE can make these changes, NOT just the owner.

There IS a motive for an UPWARD change to 97.5% too, it is to "sucker in" a player who gets a better game, only to be "had" once they become more confident and deposit more & play harder - at which point the RTG is put back to who knows what.

Not even the OWNER should have this access, it should ONLY be possible for RTG themselves to make the changes, this way they can be CERTAIN that ONLY changes they have granted permission for are made.

I think I know who this "affiliate manager" was. He came to the affiliate conference where I appeared on the Meister's "player panel". He took me aside after and said he knew even MORE than he had said already, and that he feared for his job if he exposed what he said was a more serious scandal with RTG. Later, I hear he "has a new job", because a new casino33 rep appeared on the forum to tell us they had parted company with their former affiliate manager. I suspected he got fired, but no-one was saying

It seems he took advantage of lax controls to gather "evidence" for his cause, which somehow became a vendetta against RTG and certain operators. The aim seems to be to have convinced high profile players that RTG were cheating, and seriously so. We would then spread the word, which would cause damage to other RTG operators.

We of course KNOW that RTG are "cheating" a bit because they can have the same slots but with different RTP settings at different casinos. A few other softwares can do this, but unlike RTG, they are more open about doing it. 3Dice, for example, rework existing games, and the RTP changes as a result, but they ANNOUNCE what they have done, why, and even how. TopGame and Rival (in the early days) would rework games after negative feedback on the forum. We knew it was happening.

RTG is different, even Dogboy said he was not allowed to tell us how we could identify which RTP setting matched which reel layout, even though he WAS allowed to say that changing reel layouts was the WAY RTP settings were changed, and that there were generally 3 different layouts provided, each with different RTP settings, and which the operator could choose from when they ordered the software, and every 6 months thereafter.

 

[funeral979]

I personally could care less if RTG operators can change RTP's on the fly. After all, even the lowest setting is probably better than what I get in any land based casino. Without a doubt I do way better with online slots than with land based ones.

I am more concerned with table games (blackjack specifically). This grey area of natural card game vs. artificial RTP slotjack has yet to be addressed properly.

 

[winbig]

Originally Posted by cheekymonkey:
Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

Huh? Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't you take a break from gambling online last year or so because you had a problem? Or am I thinking of someone else? If so, I give you my apologies in advance for the following statement:

Of course you have a vested interest for making the above statement. Don't assume that all online gambling should be banned just because of your shortcomings.