Corrupt Online Gaming

[rouletteguy]

Well I've said it once and I'll say it again, We as human beings will never completely trust somthing we cannot physically see in action. No amount of regulation will ever change that. There will alway's be those who cry foul when they lose. But give it time Government regulation is coming soon enough. At least for Canada it seems a definite thing.

I think the issue is the reel strips they are not entirely random they are designed to return a fixed percentage to players over time. This is the same for table games and slots. With a table game you can make a conscious decision to vary your method of play. Therefore a pre-determined reel strip could not offer a guaranteed fixed RTP it would in essence be a random game.
That is a huge risk for a shoe string budget casino. Nope I think the same software a chess computer uses is very similar to what you get when you play table games. But only at some casino's.

Casinomeister is the best we have right now to advocate for us and I choose to believe that it would be piss poor business practice for Bailey to bite the hand that feeds him. The reality is if he were taking kick backs or screwing over his following he wouldn't have anything. It would be leaked somwhere with proof and his rep would be destroyed.

PAB works ask the thousands who have been successful with it and why in hell would Brian be worried about a casino's advertising when there are many others who would pay for the space on his site?

 

[WyldGirl]

Nate, don't get me wrong. If there is something tangible that 4oak has, then he needs to share it and I along with everyone else are all ears.
Whichever way you spin it, what he has stated in this thread, requires hard cold facts to back up his posting.
Unless he does this, then IMO this is a classic troll thread which unfortunately is getting the reaction and attention he desired.

OK I was content for some time just following this thread but now in all fairness to 4oak I am gonna jump my daring butt right in the middle of this fire.
It does not matter what evidence is put before the players because they do not care to see the trth as then they would have to admit that their continued play was absolute proof of an ADDICTION!

And I am not talking out of my other end when I say this as have already proved it on 2occassions. I put a matter before the players showing absolute proof that that a casino had an error in the bonus calculations as $999.43 had been wagered on a $8.10 which had a $243 wager requirement on it and still at the end of play with zero in my cash account there was 1 penny still in the bonus!.
Would love to go into more details but the issue is being filed in the PaB!

On another occassion I posted showing absolutely that a pattern of every time I would win more than a couple of dollars the game would spin out of control then boot me out to begin all over!
I even had a chat support talking on chat while watching my game do this (with a ss of her admitting she could see it happening.)

Both times there ws no favorable resolve - well if a $10 BONUS with a 30 x wager is considered resolve then ~
AND both times the same group of players did nothing but spout childish insults and antogonistic replys.

And we wonder why nobody brings anything real to the table

===

Now a word to jod5431.
You truely must hate yourself because all I ever see is you jumping into any post, where someone has practiced their right to free speech, to begin one of your childish attacks that most people outgrow by the age of 5. Try getting an educatuion and then it might become possible for you to bring something worthy of reading to the table!

To this board and it's administration I apologize if I have crossed any lines as disrespect to this site or it's staff was not my intent.

 

[just play]

What the hell is wrong with everyone? Why is Jod's name being brought up in such a terrible way?

I must have missed something where she said something negative to someone...BUT, it's ok for other people to say negative things to her?

Think about it...does this make sense? You can't have it both ways.

I say your a jerk....I get slammed....then other people say I'm a jerk and it's ok???

Am I friends with Jod, I would say no, I don't consider people at an online forum friends unless we converse out of the forum, that's just me. Do I talk back and forth with her in posts, sure, but I do that with many others as well....there is a double standard here, and it pretty much sucks.



Onto the OP...I also have my doubts about online casinos being fair, don't we all in some way or another?

 

[De Beuker]

Funny how the Truly Random Advocates here always ask for proof.
But as soon as something that could be seen as proof is posted here, all the Truly Random Advocates are nowhere to be found, and the silence becomes deafening.

Webcaz, you as a former IT department manager should be able to explain to me how an event described in this thread could possibly happen on truly random software.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/50-free-spins-at-aspinalls-0-nothing-nada.40523/

And thats the problem.
No matter what anyone comes up with, there's always a minimalistic, astronomical tiny little chance that it actually might happen.

The fact that these chances are so extremely small that it would take the entire worlds population to spin this game 24/7 for the next million years doesn't count?

Miss Token decided to post about it, but how many more times did this happen? Nobody knows.
Maybe it WAS the first time ever, maybe other players ran into this but just took the casinos explanation that it was just a matter of bad luck..

 

[blacklabrador]

What the hell is wrong with everyone? Why is Jod's name being brought up in such a terrible way?

I must have missed something where she said something negative to someone...BUT, it's ok for other people to say negative things to her?

Think about it...does this make sense? You can't have it both ways.

I say your a jerk....I get slammed....then other people say I'm a jerk and it's ok???

Am I friends with Jod, I would say no, I don't consider people at an online forum friends unless we converse out of the forum, that's just me. Do I talk back and forth with her in posts, sure, but I do that with many others as well....there is a double standard here, and it pretty much sucks.



Onto the OP...I also have my doubts about online casinos being fair, don't we all in some way or another?

You clearly missed some of Jods posts over the past few days if you have to ask such a question.

 

[just play]

You clearly missed some of Jods posts over the past few days if you have to ask such a question.

Yes, I probably did.

But again....she sucks, but everyone else doesn't?

Please inform me how that isn't a double standard, I would really like to know.


For anyone....(I'm using me as an example) I say some negative things to some posters, get slammed because of it...THEN...posters say negative things about me and it's ok?

PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT LOGIC (if you can)

 

[Casinomeister]

Admin stuff

Just a friendly reminder that I'd like this thread to stay focused. If anyone would like to, please feel free to start a new thread about member bashing in the Attic or other appropriate place. Thank you

 

[jod5413]

Let's put the Jod bashing in the past, me included. Hopefully though, she can realize she is quite offensive at times and just tone it down a bit. I would like to get along with every member on here so I am calling a truce Jod, deal?

You clearly missed some of Jods posts over the past few days if you have to ask such a question.

That was a short truce, I think.

4oak, I think you are talking about Scuter? If so, please share the info with Bryan, because what was being said by him on Webzcas' forum sounds like your story. If it is anywhere close to being true about the things he said, that would definitely be something to spread around on forums. The more people that know about it, the less chance any one person would be in trouble or danger.

 

[just play]

Just a friendly reminder that I'd like this thread to stay focused. If anyone would like to, please feel free to start a new thread about member bashing in the Attic or other appropriate place. Thank you

Sorry Bryan...I didn't know there was a double standard here...and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction.


*my mouth shutting begins now*

 

[Casinomeister]

Sorry Bryan...I didn't know there was a double standard here...and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction.


*my mouth shutting begins now*

No double standard here. There is no flaming in this forum, and those who flame and get caught are usually verbally warned or spanked. No big deal.

/derail

Back to the topic at hand. I think I know what 4ofakind is getting at. In August, he forwarded me screenshots that show RTG's Goldbeard RTP being changed from 95% to 97.5%. What is unusual about these screenshots is that the operators who saw these told me they had no such permissions to do so (I think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere), in other words this was a different version of the RTG backend.

Today RTG has gotten back to me on this, and these screen shots are from the numero-uno administrators back end. This is what a casino owner would see. Now as discussed in previous threads about RTG RTP, the person with this access can only change the RTP with the full consent of RTG. This has been done here. What is a big deal is that some affiliate manger (who I believe was fired) had access to this and was acting the fool telling people he could make changes at a whim. He should have never been allowed that sort of access - and I believe that the casino Casino33 went down the tubes anyway.

But who is to say which casino this was - it was never identified on the screen shots.

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

So is this the seed of what is deemed "corrupt" in this thread? Changes being made on the RTP of 2.5% by someone who should have never had this access? I can think of a lot worst things to get riled up about.

 

[takethemoney]

No double standard here. There is no flaming in this forum, and those who flame and get caught are usually verbally warned or spanked. No big deal.

/derail

Back to the topic at hand. I think I know what 4ofakind is getting at. In August, he forwarded me screenshots that show RTG's Goldbeard RTP being changed from 95% to 97.5%. What is unusual about these screenshots is that the operators who saw these told me they had no such permissions to do so (I think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere), in other words this was a different version of the RTG backend.

Today RTG has gotten back to me on this, and these screen shots are from the numero-uno administrators back end. This is what a casino owner would see. Now as discussed in previous threads about RTG RTP, the person with this access can only change the RTP with the full consent of RTG. This has been done here. What is a big deal is that some affiliate manger (who I believe was fired) had access to this and was acting the fool telling people he could make changes at a whim. He should have never been allowed that sort of access - and I believe that the casino Casino33 went down the tubes anyway.

But who is to say which casino this was - it was never identified on the screen shots.

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

So is this the seed of what is deemed "corrupt" in this thread? Changes being made on the RTP of 2.5% by someone who should have never had this access? I can think of a lot worst things to get riled up about.

And, from what I understand 1.5% of the money wagered goes into the the Random Jackpots pool. But.....we have to believe that those settings are the only settings available, based on what we are told by people who have an interest in us believing what they say. I personally find this suspect, therefore no longer play them. It just seems that there is an awful lot of losing for a 95% + RTP. Anyway, I am following the advice I've been given by others by not playing.

 

[funeral979]

I have to assume that there is much more to this story than seeing the RTP of a slot change from 95% to 97.5%.

Call me stupid, but how can this information be used for personal gain?? Just because you can lose a little less over the long term?

Anyhow, 4OAK seems to be much more concerned with videopoker/table game fairness, and whether these games are RTP driven. This seems to be the crux of his concerns over the past 6 months.

 

[cheekymonkey]

Online gambling may be corrupt, it may not. But you can say this for a lot of things in life, especially in gambling - horse racing, greyhounds etc etc.

However, I do think that to be able to gamble online is totally irresponsible by all parties involved - the casino, the player and whoever else comes in to it.

With these outrageous betting limits on slots (now up to about £500 a spin in some places, possibly more) and also with roulette and blackjack (betting £1,000s per hands/spin) it's a sure road to disaster.

It's absolutely disgusting to think that you can sign in to a website, enter your debit/credit details and spend your life savings in a matter of a few hours or even, minutes.

Stop now. Let's go back to our parents era, or grandparents. A night out at the casino was fun in those days. Not anymore and especially not online.

The only way to beat the casinos is by NOT PLAYING at the casinos.

Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

 

[Casinomeister]

...Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

But the thing is, a lot of people enjoy it - including me and quite a number of our members. Many of whom gamble with money budgeted just for that - and that's it.

It's a choice. You chose what to do online. No one makes these choices for you; you are the master of your own domain.

And to say gambling needs to stop - that would be like saying people need to stop making decisions. Because that is what gambling simply is - a decision making process. You chose to either bet on black, or bet on red. Hold the Ace, or hold the King and Queen...it goes on and on. Gambling is human nature. You do this every time you make a decision. Do you buy the VW or buy the Volvo? Which school do you send your kids to? Which doctor is the best one? Do you bet on red or bet on black?

Become the master of your domain - don't let other people do the thinking for you.

 

[silcnlayc]

Casinomeister: It's a choice

Absolutely agree. Only you can be your own enemy. Gambling is like any other past time a person chooses to do. If taken to extreme, it can become something unappealing and ruin you just as any other vice one has if taken tot he extreme. People die from over eating...should we stop eating? People die from dringking , should we stop drinking? People die while driving, flying etc...get the picture..The only dangerous thing about gambling is YOURSELF. If you have a problem...seek help.

I use my spendable income gambling...I do not go out to dine or drink or movies..(unless all are free of course) I choose to dabble in gambling with those funds...because they actually at times give a nice return unlike the dining out and drinking, all the return you get there is the bathroom after a few hours...

So, there are choices in life...good or bad...we all have free will. Some give up their free will....for one reason or other..

.

 

[Tengil]

The thing with gambling tough is that you dont choose if you become addicted. More opportunities to gamble leads to more addicts.

And gambling is harmful for the economy, online gambling even more as it lacks many of the positive externalities that B&M gambling has.
And comparing to other addictions, you cant drink or do drugs over the internet so I see cheekymonkeys point to some extent.

In Finland we have some kind of slots or VPs in basically every store, gas station etc which has lead to that some 110 000 people has some kind of gambling problem. Quite much for a country with a population of little over 5,3 million.

But online gambling is here to stay so strict regulation like in France seems to be the only way to go. Where BTW not a single operator offering casino games has been accepted AFAIK.

 

[silcnlayc]

spiderlegz :The thing with gambling tough is that you dont choose if you become addicted. More opportunities to gamble leads to more addicts.

I understand where cheekymonkey is coming from also, but you have to put in to perspective. Food is all around people also and the USA has become one of the largest, most morbidly obese country there is due to many addicted to food.

So, yes, there are other addictions that can KILL all around us...but you still have CHOICES. If one chose to sit on the couch, and eat and become 600 lbs...are we to remove food from all stores etc because some have this addictive personality? Gambling does not kill...it can ruin you, unlike some other addictions..that can truly kill you...

.

 

[Tengil]

I understand where cheekymonkey is coming from also, but you have to put in to perspective. Food is all around people also and the USA has become one of the largest, most morbidly obese country there is due to many addicted to food. So, yes, there are other addictions that can KILL all around us...but you still have CHOICES. If one chose to sit on the couch, and eat and become 600 lbs...are we to remove food from all stores etc because some have this addictive personality? Gambling does not kill...it can ruin you, unlike some other addictions..that can truly kill you...

.

Well people must to eat to survive.

Plus gambling problems can lead to suicide or killing people. A few years ago we had a case in Finland when a father killed his wife and two children because of gambling addiction. Huge debts and shame lead to that.

Some peoples brains work differently hence why some become addicted to gambling almost instantly and some over time. The choice one have is of course never to play for starters.

Edit: gambling has existed like forever but video slots which are by far the most addictive has only been around since the 90s.

2nd edit: a bit OT, could make up for an interesting discussion how to decrease or/and limit problem gambling.

 

[Nate]

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

I believe that this is just a 'small' issue in the greater scheme of things. 4OAK would not make a mountain outta a mole hill....

2.5% in the greater scheme and for any businesses bottom line can mean the difference between PROFIT and LOSS... 2.5% is a BIG deal IMPO...Set a Video Poker from 99.7 RTP to 97.2 and we see a significant difference.... If 2.5% was not such a big deal, why don't some Casino's increase the RTP by 2.5%?

They won't, because it makes a difference...

Nate

 

[felicie]

I want to derail this thread one more time, then I will be done.

I actually appreciate hearing the opinions of me by the members in this thread. Most of you are not my friends, in case you didn't know that. My friends I treat with respect as they do me, and they post honestly and are forthright with their opinions, just as I post honestly.

I tend to get mouthy (cranky old lady? ) but never without proof or cause, no matter what you think. I post honestly and say in public what so many of you do privately by PMs among your friends (Mavin, you know what I mean?). If that means I am childish, so be it.

I am not in a contest to see how popular I am. So, feel free to express your opinions any time, I actually think a lot of you are funny and I find you quite entertaining. However, since so many of you are "offended" by what I say, I would suggest you put me on ignore. That way you won't be so upset when I post my opinions in the future, alrighty then?

Jod

Just one thing and I'm going too jod. I think you have a wonderful sense of humor and it isn't your opinion on things that offends. It is the attack mode you go into first imo.
I know you think I'm empty headed or delusional and you're probably right to some degree but did you also know empty headed & delusional is what I deal with 24/7 365 days of the year with my mom? maybe, maybe not and that's not important anyway. What's important I think is that we all try to treat each other the way we would like to be treated ourselves which might explain a big part of this thread. peace

 

[hitobito2005]

Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

Maybe you should move to the Middle East or China if you don't like freedom.

 

[maxd]

Plus gambling problems can lead to suicide or killing people. A few years ago we had a case in Finland when a father killed his wife and two children because of gambling addiction.

No, a person like that kills because he was a homicidal freak. At worst gambling addiction may have helped nudge him a little closer to the edge a little sooner than might otherwise have been the case.

People have said similar things for yonks: "guns made him kill" or "drugs made him do it" or alcohol or his boring job or spicy corn chips were supposedly to blame.

To paraphase an old one: gambling doesn't kill people, people kill people.

 

[vinylweatherman]

No double standard here. There is no flaming in this forum, and those who flame and get caught are usually verbally warned or spanked. No big deal.

/derail

Back to the topic at hand. I think I know what 4ofakind is getting at. In August, he forwarded me screenshots that show RTG's Goldbeard RTP being changed from 95% to 97.5%. What is unusual about these screenshots is that the operators who saw these told me they had no such permissions to do so (I think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere), in other words this was a different version of the RTG backend.

Today RTG has gotten back to me on this, and these screen shots are from the numero-uno administrators back end. This is what a casino owner would see. Now as discussed in previous threads about RTG RTP, the person with this access can only change the RTP with the full consent of RTG. This has been done here. What is a big deal is that some affiliate manger (who I believe was fired) had access to this and was acting the fool telling people he could make changes at a whim. He should have never been allowed that sort of access - and I believe that the casino Casino33 went down the tubes anyway.

But who is to say which casino this was - it was never identified on the screen shots.

Putting things into perspective: what's the difference between 95 and 97.5 percent? Not much - 2.5% - at least the change wasn't down to 80% which you'll find all over in Vegas (11 days and counting yeessss!). Another thing, I believe that new games coming out of RTG will be all set to 95% - and that's it - no changes allowed.

So is this the seed of what is deemed "corrupt" in this thread? Changes being made on the RTP of 2.5% by someone who should have never had this access? I can think of a lot worst things to get riled up about.

This is STILL a problem though, since this is NOT exactly what we have been told about this before. The previous statement was that an operator had to request the change from RTG, and RTG would implement it. Further, no more changes for another 6 months.

This IS somewhat different. Now we see that the owner CAN make such changes, but should get permission from RTG. HOWEVER, the changes are made from the OWNER'S console, NOT by RTG themselves. Whilst permission is required, what is to stop the owner from just going ahead and doing it anyway. Virtual casinos are NOT going to let a matter of RTG denying them permission to stop them from going ahead anyway, and unless RTG are monitoring continuously, and thoroughly, they may never notice that such changes have been made. I am sure rogue owners will make sure of this to the best of their ability, such as making sure all gets "changed back" for "audit day". It also seems that operators were not COMPELLED to upgrade to this new back end, and some may still have the old version where ANYONE can make these changes, NOT just the owner.

There IS a motive for an UPWARD change to 97.5% too, it is to "sucker in" a player who gets a better game, only to be "had" once they become more confident and deposit more & play harder - at which point the RTG is put back to who knows what.

Not even the OWNER should have this access, it should ONLY be possible for RTG themselves to make the changes, this way they can be CERTAIN that ONLY changes they have granted permission for are made.

I think I know who this "affiliate manager" was. He came to the affiliate conference where I appeared on the Meister's "player panel". He took me aside after and said he knew even MORE than he had said already, and that he feared for his job if he exposed what he said was a more serious scandal with RTG. Later, I hear he "has a new job", because a new casino33 rep appeared on the forum to tell us they had parted company with their former affiliate manager. I suspected he got fired, but no-one was saying

It seems he took advantage of lax controls to gather "evidence" for his cause, which somehow became a vendetta against RTG and certain operators. The aim seems to be to have convinced high profile players that RTG were cheating, and seriously so. We would then spread the word, which would cause damage to other RTG operators.

We of course KNOW that RTG are "cheating" a bit because they can have the same slots but with different RTP settings at different casinos. A few other softwares can do this, but unlike RTG, they are more open about doing it. 3Dice, for example, rework existing games, and the RTP changes as a result, but they ANNOUNCE what they have done, why, and even how. TopGame and Rival (in the early days) would rework games after negative feedback on the forum. We knew it was happening.

RTG is different, even Dogboy said he was not allowed to tell us how we could identify which RTP setting matched which reel layout, even though he WAS allowed to say that changing reel layouts was the WAY RTP settings were changed, and that there were generally 3 different layouts provided, each with different RTP settings, and which the operator could choose from when they ordered the software, and every 6 months thereafter.

 

[funeral979]

I personally could care less if RTG operators can change RTP's on the fly. After all, even the lowest setting is probably better than what I get in any land based casino. Without a doubt I do way better with online slots than with land based ones.

I am more concerned with table games (blackjack specifically). This grey area of natural card game vs. artificial RTP slotjack has yet to be addressed properly.

 

[winbig]

Originally Posted by cheekymonkey:
Online gambling should be banned outright. It's a sick hobby that doesn't need regulation, no - it needs to be stopped altogether.

Huh? Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't you take a break from gambling online last year or so because you had a problem? Or am I thinking of someone else? If so, I give you my apologies in advance for the following statement:

Of course you have a vested interest for making the above statement. Don't assume that all online gambling should be banned just because of your shortcomings.