Copyright issues with forum posts

[Sassy1]

For the past day or so Ive been trying to figure out a diplomatic way to comment on this thread. I hope Ill be successful in that attempt, but if not, perhaps this isnt the place for me. Id also like to preface my post by saying I have no history (good or bad) with any of the parties involved. I am speaking only as a constituent here.

Several members here are disturbed by this situation and for whatever reasons, dont feel comfortable vocalizing their feelings. When this story first broke, there was compassion for BBs situation and outrage towards whoever it was that gave the story to InfoPowa. Once Jetset came forward and admitted it was he who modified and submitted BBs work to InfoPowa, most of the members here backed down and started walking on eggshells. It really left a sour taste in my mouth (and the mouths of others), as it gave the impression that it was the good ole boys club. Had it been myself, or JaneDoe, or JohnBlow who did the deed, would the discussion have quieted down so quickly? I think not. I liken it to my local mayor getting pulled over for speeding and not being ticketed because hes the mayor. If I worked in City Hall with the mayor, I probably wouldnt say a thing as Id want to keep my job and not get glared at on the elevator, but if I were just a local citizen, Id be writing letters to the editor of my local paper about the injustice.

I am frequently sent emails encouraging me to post here. Every time I log on, I get a message telling me that its been awhile since I contributed here. Perhaps situations like this are one of the reasons that people arent as active here lately. I think if this site wants to grow and prosper, this situation needs to be addressed in a more forthright and fair manner.

 

[bryand]

I am frequently sent emails encouraging me to post here. Every time I log on, I get a message telling me that its been awhile since I contributed here. Perhaps situations like this are one of the reasons that people arent as active here lately. I think if this site wants to grow and prosper, this situation needs to be addressed in a more forthright and fair manner.

With all due respect Sassy, if your point is that other members are walking on eggshells because jetset did the deed, why are you being so diplomatic? Lead by example.

 

[Sassy1]

With all due respect Sassy, if your point is that other members are walking on eggshells because jetset did the deed, why are you being so diplomatic? Lead by example.

I thought I made my points without being nasty. Isn't that leading by example? I'm not sure what you would like me to do or say differently. I'm open to suggestions and I'm sorry that I am not clear as to what you hope(d) for from me?

 

[jod5413]

Bryand,

With All Due Respect, Sassy is leading by example. Diplomacy, respect, intelligence, truthfulness, what else would you like?

Shouting, cussing, inane babbling, stupidity, arrogance, rabble rousing, is that what you are wanting? I think there is enough of that going on across the forums.

She made a sane and rational post, with valid points. That is the way it should be done. In the grown up world anyway.

You would be lucky if there were more members like her at Casinomeister to lead by example.

 

[bryand]

Thanks Sassy1 and jod5413. Another member was kind enough to PM me about my post and I quickly realized that it's appearance is completely contrary to my thoughts at the time. Sassy, you were not the intended target of the post and I applaud your courage. I have been slammed publicly and privately for stating the painful truth on occasion.

 

[USA2112]

Everyone commenting on this issue with bb28's post have all brought up good points. Though, some members comments seem to be focusing more on the moral issues instead of what the real issues are here.

I think everyone agrees the post itself brings up some good points that need to be addressed with online casinos, but it's not like these same points have not been brought up before in many of forums on the net, because they have as mentioned above, many times.

Also, this is a public forum and when people post in a public forums their post become public information no matter how you look at it these are the facts. Unless there's something attached that gives them ownership of the material, which there was not, or someone else has the right to ownership of the material which they do, it is in the terms of the forum when members sign up. The Casinomeister owns copyrights on all material in his forum.

Then you have to consider if the poster wants to claim ownership /copyright of the post in the first place for any credit or compensations for the post itself. First, this should be done before posting the material in the forum, and second and most important, there should have be a request to the forum owner whether the member can post their copyrighted material in the forum in the first place. Which in this case would have been the Casinomeister.

I only bring this up because if all forum owners were expected to give credit or especially compensate their members for posting in there forum with out requesting their services to do so and without a monetary agreement being made, forum owners would go broke.

That being said, I would like to point out that I'm not saying the BB28 ever expected no credit or compensation. I believe the post was written with good intent to help other members and gamblers by bringing light once again to some serious issues that casinos need to take in consideration and hopefully will make some necessary changes.

As for infopowa, I don't feel they were in the wrong considering this is a common issue with some online casinos that's important, but infopowa should have made a better effort in rewriting the material before sending it out on the wire. If this had been done the issue would not have even came up.

 

[jod5413]

One of the real issues is the morals involved. Casinomeister has created a forum that has been formatted to be a community, with people interacting in a personal manner, as friends. He stressed this in his latest update to his forum.

Most of the upset over this entire post has been how one member of the community was treated by another member of the same community. It is the one issue that has not been addressed.

And, that is all the original poster was asking for at the end of this entire thread.

A real issue for a real person.

 

[Sassy1]

Everyone commenting on this issue with bb28's post have all brought up good points. Though, some members comments seem to be focusing more on the moral issues instead of what the real issues are here.

As Jod stated, this is about the moral issues (ethics). BB is fully aware that what she posted here is now the property of Casinomeister. It's obvious the proper procedures weren't followed regarding the use of the material or we wouldn't have been reminded of those rules by Casinomeister on the bottom of the first page of this thread in which he posted the following:

If everyone could reread the rules on posting material from other sites to here; material here to other sites:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

Then, when we all learned that it was Jetset who used the material, everyone seemed to act like, Ohhhhhhhh, since it was HIM, then maybe it's okay....or they stopped discussing it. I believe if it had been me or you that had done it; this thread would be 50 pages long by now of people chastising us for the deed.

I know of a website in which the moderators are paid to write casino reviews. One person in particular, searched the web and found reviews written by individuals on other websites and used them without permission, passing the work off as her own. Do you think it was ethically alright for that person to steal another person's work and get paid for it? The info was on the web for any of us to see or take. The info was valuable and we could all make better decisions based on those reviews. Does that therefore mean it was okay for someone else to take that work and get paid for it?

Ethics are a large part of our lives and if we aren't concerned about ethics, be prepared for the resulting chaos.

 

[GaryWatson]

Im sure everyone here will agree that Infopowa and Jetset do a great job relaying up to date information to this community. They open many avenues for discussion.

On this occassion, I think it was an error of judgement. If it had been re-worded to a satisfactory level, fine. For BB to basically see her own post in print and used, not so fine.

I think both should chat privately and come to some sort of mutual agreement which will keep both parties happy.

GaryWatson All Rights Reserved.

 

[bayleesprings]

Casinomeister has created a forum that has been formatted to be a community, with people interacting in a personal manner, as friends.

Otherwise known as family

 

[mrracetrack]

I think after 9 pages of comments and thoughts from many different members on this issue... Jetset owes the forum members... and specifically bb28... the courtesy of a more in depth explanation about this... and perhaps an apology.

Jetset's one post on this issue a few days ago... and nothing since... doesn't seem very professional or appropriate to me.

 

[USA2112]

Then, when we all learned that it was Jetset who used the material, everyone seemed to act like, Ohhhhhhhh, since it was HIM, then maybe it's okay....or they stopped discussing it. I believe if it had been me or you that had done it; this thread would be 50 pages long by now of people chastising us for the deed.

Not sure I agree with this I just give my opnion as I see it. As for being chastised you could be right, that's one thing about certain members in all forums, there's always someone ready to jump on the band wagon.

I know of a website in which the moderators are paid to write casino reviews. One person in particular, searched the web and found reviews written by individuals on other websites and used them without permission, passing the work off as her own. Do you think it was ethically alright for that person to steal another person's work and get paid for it? The info was on the web for any of us to see or take. The info was valuable and we could all make better decisions based on those reviews. Does that therefore mean it was okay for someone else to take that work and get paid for it?

If the person mentioned above was doing a copy and paste with no rewrite or changes of the material for a profit, then of course this is ethically wrong. However, there's still the question of ownership and copyright on the material or if this person was posting public information, this just can't be ignored no matter what are morals tell us, it's just the way it is.

Maybe there's a lesson here for everyone, people who take the time to write good quality subjects and then post it in public forums should also get some protection on their material, there's sites where you can get copyrights. Question is then, could you post it in just any public forum without asking, it would depend on the forum.

I think anyone that is in the business of providing news and information for others especially on the net, has every right to rewrite and publicate any subject matter found worthy of content as long as the necessary work is done that makes the material their own before using it. In this case it seems this should have been done better.

Im sure everyone here will agree that Infopowa and Jetset do a great job relaying up to date information to this community. They open many avenues for discussion.

On this occassion, I think it was an error of judgement. If it had been re-worded to a satisfactory level, fine. For BB to basically see her own post in print and used, not so fine.

I think both should chat privately and come to some sort of mutual agreement which will keep both parties happy.

GaryWatson All Rights Reserved.

That pretty well somes it up! could'nt have said it better.

 

[winbig]

If the person mentioned above was doing a copy and paste with no rewrite or changes of the material for a profit, then of course this is ethically wrong. However, there's still the question of ownership and copyright on the material or if this person was posting public information, this just can't be ignored no matter what are morals tell us, it's just the way it is.

But the point is, only a small portion of the writing was changed, and NO CREDIT was given to the original author.

Copyright or not, commercial use or not, it's still called plagiarism. If I were to turn in a paper for class that only had a small portion changed from the original, I'd be thrown out of school.

If someone wanted to use the work, fine...copy and paste it, give the original author credit, then write your own little editorial to go along with it.


edit:

<devil's advocate>

I don't see any copyright notices under any of the infopowa posts....does that mean I can change a few words and use them for my commercial use as well, since they're on a forum?

 

[GaryWatson]

USA2112, just to let you know it did not pass the copyscape test, I checked

I paraphrased your observations into a more news oriented story

That was BB's only explaination

 

[GaryWatson]

GaryWatson All Rights Reserved.

P.S. USA2112 please refrain from reposting my copywritten material unless you have Meisters written approval, joking He's probably suffering from a UEFA cup hangover like me. Please dont let Rangers win the final

 

[RobWin]

edited: Ahh hell, nevermind...what's the use...

 

[BingoT]

I paraphrased your observations into a more news oriented story

At least Quote by the person that wrote it.
Just comp bb in some way and end this.

I'm happy to clear this up for you, BB28, because it seems that one of the members here has been trying to create an Internet controversy over the further publication of the excellent points raised in your post.

I paraphrased your observations into a more news oriented story and sent it to as many casino managers as I could think of, because the content, although certainly not new, is critically important and needs to be issued as a reminder to operators as frequently as possible.

This is the email I sent to one of the webmasters that BingoT has been badgering over this:


"As far as I am concerned the article explains that it is based on a post by a player using a handle on a forum, and because it is not a direct re-print (I paraphrased a fair amount to give it a news flavour) I did not link it back to the original.

"The points it makes are all well known, but are absolutely essential and bear repeating frequently to remind operators of what the players are entitled to expect - this is why I transformed the post into a news story despite having carried similar material on different occasions over the years we have been in operation.

"Certainly there was no intention to "steal" BB28's relevant and important observations in her post, which we freely acknowledge.

"Rather it was a case of seizing on another opportunity to push these important requirements in front of the operators once again."

 

[GaryWatson]

At least Quote by the person that wrote it.
Just comp bb in some way and end this.

I'm happy to clear this up for you, BB28, because it seems that one of the members here has been trying to create an Internet controversy over the further publication of the excellent points raised in your post.

I paraphrased your observations into a more news oriented story and sent it to as many casino managers as I could think of, because the content, although certainly not new, is critically important and needs to be issued as a reminder to operators as frequently as possible.

This is the email I sent to one of the webmasters that BingoT has been badgering over this

....

 

[USA2112]

But the point is, only a small portion of the writing was changed, and NO CREDIT was given to the original author.

I believe I agreed there should have been more effort. I also notice you have brought up school more than once, would be a D at best.

 

[GaryWatson]

Ive made my last post on this thread. I dont think I could contribute further other than



I hope everything resolves for the sake of the community.

 

[GaryWatson]

Did I say last responce? Smiley faces do not throw up. Ty fot the vile response Jetset. I'll take my ban, can you admit you were in the wrong?

 

[BingoT]

I hope everything resolves for the sake of the community.

AMEN
This is not good for any community of great people to have going on.

 

[GaryWatson]

AMEN
This is not good for any community of great people to have going on.

For the record. I sent a PM to Jetset. appealing to his better nature. I found out he might not have one.

Now, for the second time please cease using thew PM system here to bombard me with your flawed opinions.

My one and only ever PM to you does not constitute a bombardment. If you would like to post our PM's feel free to do so.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi all,

I think that all of the controversy on copyright vs forum postings vs news has taken away from the significance of the original piece. No one is talking about the importance of how to treat players but have began bickering about rights and such.

Jetset provides the infopowa news on this site and a number of others. He's already explained his position on the paraphrasing and distribution of the piece - and these other webmasters (Jan, Reviewed-casinos etc.) have a relatively close relationship with Casinomeister as well. And like I mentioned before, there has been a number of times in the past when items appeared in the forum and then were disiminated as news out into Cyberland.

I have a way to solve this and have PMd bb about a proposal. Thanks!

 

[bayleesprings]

I have a way to solve this and have PMd bb about a proposal. Thanks!

Thanks Bryan...