Copyright issues with forum posts

[babs7262]

When ever I write something that may look like a good post or whatever I am writing, I go here


www.myfreecopyright.com

Its free and gives it a fingerprint with time/date stamp

Im sorry you went through this BB, It was a great article/post and I still would go here anyway .

 

[RobWin]

I have not personally rewritten your post. I have not asked anyone to do so. I do not approve any rewriting of anything.

I really don't understand where you are coming from here judging by what you say above and then at the bottom you said...

I am of the opinion that keeping our reworked version with the quotes and 2 links online would be fair use of your post.

So which is it...it actually sounds like you are contradicting yourself here in these three statements ??

 

[RobWin]

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.

Reproduction is one thing BUT Reworked is a whole nother ballgame...check it out with your legal advisors !!

 

[heatherad]

Wow! Quite the turnaround since I was last sitting at my computer reading this thread.
What a shame that bb28's excellent post had to be marred by all this.
BT..I think you got more than what you bargained for and it backfired on you. It is quite transparent what you tried to do and that is all I will say on the subject.
I'm really sorry bb28 that your exceptional post was stolen by others and that should not be allowed. Hopefully it will be sorted out and those very people will come on here and wherever else they posted your words and apologize sincerely.
Hang in there girl, we are rooting for you.

 

[LaurieJim]

Wow! Quite the turnaround since I was last sitting at my computer reading this thread.
What a shame that bb28's excellent post had to be marred by all this.
BT..I think you got more than what you bargained for and it backfired on you. It is quite transparent what you tried to do and that is all I will say on the subject.
I'm really sorry bb28 that your exceptional post was stolen by others and that should not be allowed. Hopefully it will be sorted out and those very people will come on here and wherever else they posted your words and apologize sincerely.
Hang in there girl, we are rooting for you.

..........ditto!!! hang in there b.b and as i said before an excellent post and i hope you get the credit thats due for such a remarkable article, one of the best ive read on here so far..............laurie

 

[bb28]

I have not personally rewritten your post. I have not asked anyone to do so. I do not approve any rewriting of anything. I have jumped up and down to correct a mistake. What more do you want from me?

Maybe you didn't personally rewrite it, but you posted it in it's altered format, even after you came here and heard my viewpoint, just adding a link is not the right thing to do and I made this clear in my reply to the Professor from Cap. He understood exactly what I asked and he complied.

I can understand why you are upset about this, but I really think you are wrong when you start questioning my ethics.

I came on here with good intentions to try and sort this out. I have done everything you asked for in your mails.
Leaving the plagiarized article up is just wrong and it doesn't make it all OK to credit this website and me. The point is you left the plagiarized article up even after you knew that it was because of your visit here.

A mistake has happened somehow. I am well aware of that - but I really don't know how. But since it among others happened on my website I said I was sorry. You asked for a quote - you got two quotes.

In my email I asked if you wanted me to delete it completely (an email I send you a long time before you posted last time - and not "a couple of minutes ago" as you suggest in your latest post). You did not reply to this email - but now you question my ethics? That's really not fair.

I was of the impression that you were interested in getting your opinion out to people and even on other website's. Apparently I was wrong. If you don't want others to discuss your opinion it's probably best not to publish your opinion in the public domain.

I have said many times that it's a important message but I don't want it out there in it's reworked version.


source:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I am of the opinion that keeping our reworked version with the quotes and 2 links online would be fair use of your post. Yet I asked you if you wanted it online because I felt that was the right thing to do. Obviously the playing field for "fair use" is debatable - let's not go there. But there is definitely nothing wrong with my ethics. Copyright.gov is a valid source in my opinion - not some high school kid plagiarism definition.

No it NOT alright to keep that version on there and please do look up the definition for plagiarism, anywhere you so desire. I really don't see how you could possibly justify your opinion. It's not fair use, it's plagiarism, just as simple as that.


I have now deleted our news report since that is what you prefer?

Thank you for deleting it.

 

[bb28]

How did this happen??

Can anyone shed any light on how this edited version came to be on InfoPowa News Service?
That is the root of the problem and now I'm finding it out there on the web in a lot of other places as well and it's not the original.

As I've said before....it's not so much that I mind that it's out there because the message is very important and I wrote it for all of us. If I had known that someone would have been interested in publishing it, I would have polished it up a bit but to have someone else do it for me. Well it's just wrong!

Some of the stories of how lacking customer service is at times are just really, really sad. It came from everyone here who has been treated badly or unfairly. I'm just the one who happened to put the words together.

BB

Thank you to everyone who has offered their support either by public message or private PM. I really do appreciate it! :notworthy

 

[jetset]

Can anyone shed any light on how this edited version came to be on InfoPowa News Service?
That is the root of the problem and now I'm finding it out there on the web in a lot of other places as well and it's not the original.

As I've said before....it's not so much that I mind that it's out there because the message is very important and I wrote it for all of us. If I had known that someone would have been interested in publishing it, I would have polished it up a bit but to have someone else do it for me. Well it's just wrong!

Some of the stories of how lacking customer service is at times are just really, really sad. It came from everyone here who has been treated badly or unfairly. I'm just the one who happened to put the words together.

BB

Thank you to everyone who has offered their support either by public message or private PM. I really do appreciate it! :notworthy

I'm happy to clear this up for you, BB28, because it seems that one of the members here has been trying to create an Internet controversy over the further publication of the excellent points raised in your post.

I paraphrased your observations into a more news oriented story and sent it to as many casino managers as I could think of, because the content, although certainly not new, is critically important and needs to be issued as a reminder to operators as frequently as possible.

This is the email I sent to one of the webmasters that BingoT has been badgering over this:


"As far as I am concerned the article explains that it is based on a post by a player using a handle on a forum, and because it is not a direct re-print (I paraphrased a fair amount to give it a news flavour) I did not link it back to the original.

"The points it makes are all well known, but are absolutely essential and bear repeating frequently to remind operators of what the players are entitled to expect - this is why I transformed the post into a news story despite having carried similar material on different occasions over the years we have been in operation.

"Certainly there was no intention to "steal" BB28's relevant and important observations in her post, which we freely acknowledge.

"Rather it was a case of seizing on another opportunity to push these important requirements in front of the operators once again."

 

[JanBalslev]

...just adding a link is not the right thing to do and I made this clear in my reply to the Professor from Cap. He understood exactly what I asked and he complied.

In your original email to me I belive you asked for getting credited with a link. I belived that I did comply with what you wanted by adding a link. It has always been my intention to comply with exactly what you have asked for and I hope that I do that now.

I will be stepping out of this discussion now - thanks again for making a fine post. :notworthy

 

[KasinoKing]

I paraphrased your observations into a more news oriented story and sent it to as many casino managers as I could think of,...

 

[bayleesprings]

Sorry, I thought this thread needed a bit of humor...and I'm always the one for the job.

Item #9...Misspelt? WTF? Are you freakin' serious? I haven't used that word since I was like 4yrs old. Everyone in the WORLD knows there's no such word. How ironic for it to be in the same sentence with "use spellcheck".

I think I will now go around using the word AIN'T...

Keep up the good work BB!! :notworthy

By the way, this is all copyrighted,
Christie

 

[just play]

Sorry, I thought this thread needed a bit of humor...and I'm always the one for the job.

Item #9...Misspelt? WTF? Are you freakin' serious? I haven't used that word since I was like 4yrs old. Everyone in the WORLD knows there's no such word. How ironic for it to be in the same sentence with "use spellcheck".

I think I will now go around using the word AIN'T...

Keep up the good work BB!! :notworthy

By the way, this is all copyrighted,
Christie

ain't
One entry found.

ain't




Main Entry: ain't
Pronunciation: \ˈānt\
Etymology: contraction of are not
Date: 1749
1 : am not : are not : is not
2 : have not : has not
3 : do not : does not : did not used in some varieties of Black English
usage Although widely disapproved as nonstandard and more common in the habitual speech of the less educated, ain't in senses 1 and 2 is flourishing in American English. It is used in both speech and writing to catch attention and to gain emphasis <the wackiness of movies, once so deliciously amusing, ain't funny anymore Richard Schickel> <I am telling youthere ain't going to be any blackmail R. M. Nixon>. It is used especially in journalistic prose as part of a consistently informal style <the creative process ain't easy Mike Royko>. This informal ain't is commonly distinguished from habitual ain't by its frequent occurrence in fixed constructions and phrases <wellclass it ain't Cleveland Amory> <for money? say it ain't so, Jimmy! Andy Rooney> <you ain't seen nothing yet> <that ain't hay> <two out of three ain't bad> <if it ain't broke, don't fix it>. In fiction ain't is used for purposes of characterization; in familiar correspondence it tends to be the mark of a warm personal friendship. It is also used for metrical reasons in popular songs <Ain't She Sweet> <It Ain't Necessarily So>. Our evidence shows British use to be much the same as American.

 

[bayleesprings]

Our evidence shows British use to be much the same as American.

Awww, the British. My grandmother was born in Ireland but grew up in England. She came to the states with my grandfather when she was 16 , so I've always had a big place in my heart for the British.

Thanks for posting that reply, it sure made me smile.

Ain't that somethin',
Christie

 

[BingoT]

Ain't so bad at Snopes

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[lojo]

I'm happy to clear this up for you, BB28, because it seems that one of the members here has been trying to create an Internet controversy over the further publication of the excellent points raised in your post.

I paraphrased your observations into a more news oriented story and sent it to as many casino managers as I could think of, because the content, although certainly not new, is critically important and needs to be issued as a reminder to operators as frequently as possible.

This is the email I sent to one of the webmasters that BingoT has been badgering over this:


"As far as I am concerned the article explains that it is based on a post by a player using a handle on a forum, and because it is not a direct re-print (I paraphrased a fair amount to give it a news flavour) I did not link it back to the original.

"The points it makes are all well known, but are absolutely essential and bear repeating frequently to remind operators of what the players are entitled to expect - this is why I transformed the post into a news story despite having carried similar material on different occasions over the years we have been in operation.

"Certainly there was no intention to "steal" BB28's relevant and important observations in her post, which we freely acknowledge.

"Rather it was a case of seizing on another opportunity to push these important requirements in front of the operators once again."

This really raises some interesting questions.
Some facts are known:
CasinoMeister owns all content on the forum.
BB28 didn't claim copyrights.
JetSet attributed the core of the story to a poster on a message board; though he didn't 'name' her - he also didn't claim they were original ideas.
The original poster felt sleighted by the use of her ideas.
Another poster raised the issue with webmasters carrying commercial content from InfoPowa 'created' by JetSet.

The questions it raises for me are:
Is this how stories are usually created for InfoPowa, and does it matter?
Does Jetset own his revision, or does infopowa?
Was infopowa paid, per subscription, for this piece?
Why has the issue gone mute with JetSet's disclosure?

I'm personally struggling with the ethics question. I can see the legal aspects and fair use aspects on one side, and I can feel for the OP as well. The legal side is pretty clear - Bryan has claimed copyright to all material posted here and it is agreed to when we sign up. If he doesn't have an issue with an associate harvesting content, copyright is a moot point. Fair use can be a sticky wicket; but only applies to copyrighted materials, so it is moot as well.

Can motive be argued, and if so does it have any weight? I don't think so.

Per Jetsets statement "Certainly there was no intention to "steal" BB28's relevant and important observations in her post, which we freely acknowledge." I may misunderstand that convoluted sentence - what is freely acknowledged? Certainly not the source, be it BB28 or this forum. It was acknowledged only that the original message came from a message board.

All of this could have been avoided - the OP would have been flattered rather than felt ripped-off, if JetSet would have simply taken the time to compliment her on the post, and ask her permission to use the material - maybe going so far as to let her proof the copy before publication. Who knows, it may have inspired her to write on more subjects of interest to us all.

Now that we know the chain of events and where the responsibilities lie, there is no sense in slagging subscribers to the news feed. But infopowa may want to release an update; replacing the article with one crediting the original creator as a gesture of good will.

 

[GaryWatson]

I think lojo just about summed it up. Had it been dealt with differently, BB would have seen the use of her article as a compliment. Thats why I feel it a little ironic considering the content of the post

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Lojo,

Welcome back

As for webmasters (or anyone else for that matter) who want to use material at Casinomeister, it's a good thing to ask ahead of time.

Jetset is in a better position than I am to explain how news agenicies collect information and how this is edited for clarity or concisiveness. Infopowa supplies the Casinomeister news here - as well as a number of other websites. There are times when interesting threads appear, or posts, and these are picked up by the news. Sometimes the website is mentioned - sometimes not - I think it depends on the situation - perhaps it's not to show bias for a particular site. Especially if all the news happens here (jk)

 

[bb28]

I'd like to address a few things about all this and I apologize for repeating myself in part of it, but I think it's important that I reiterate on some things.

The original post was written in hopes that casino's and their support staff could see the problems and issues that a lot of people are having. I also offered solutions....mostly tongue in cheek but they were serious answers. It was inspired from some of my own experiences but mostly other experiences that have been mentioned here numerous times. I just happen to be the one who summed it up and posted it. After I hit submit and read what I had written, I was proud of it and felt good about it and I hoped it would get attention from the people in this industry who do have the power to change things. The edited version that got send out, well the message itself didn't get changed that much, but some of my words did and yes I didn't like it then and I still don't.

If Jetset had contacted me and said....hey great post and I think it's newsworthy, do you mind if I send it out? I would have been extremely flattered and pleased and I would have said yes. As for the editing of it to make it more newsworthy, I would have liked to have been the one given the opportunity to do that but I wasn't. That still upsets me.

Lojo and others have brought up some things that do need to be discussed.

It is understood that Casinomeister does have copyright rights and the post was and his property, but as someone else pointed out. CM didn't credit for it, nor did I and the question is, is that right?

Also is there money being made from it? If so that does bring up a whole other batch of issues that need to be discussed.

These things should be ironed out because it's likely that this same scenario could happen again.

With all this said......I think the original message was very important and it should be read by anyone who is in the casino business and it would be good if this hadn't happened to deflect from that. I wish that it hadn't turned into what it has.

BB

 

[joeypbg]

Peace and goodwill to all men (and women). When you really think of it there is nothing new under the sun. So technically it is not even who posted it first. It is who tried to have it copyrighted first.

So PEACE to all !

 

[jod5413]

I am curious.

Setting aside the legalities, copyright issues, plagiarism accusations.

I have not seen one word by anyone here at this forum that should at least have been apologising and offering to make amends for what has happened with BB's original post.

A lame excuse as to why BB's post was taken and allegedly rewritten to make it more newsworthy, is certainly not any consolation to the author of the piece. And, considering the few words added and/or changed, it is very arbitrary that the piece was even made more newsworthy.

BB has been a contributing member that is obviously liked and respected by her peers here.

The "powers involved" should be willing to apologise and admit they were wrong. And, answer her questions that she has repeatedly asked. Seems like the adult, responsible and professional thing to do.

Not to mention it would just be plain nice!

 

[dominique]

Ok, I just read this whole thing and these things jump out at me:

It's a great post, and all managers should read it. It got widely distibuted and many managers likely did read it by now, so that's a good thing. Players benefit from that. Kudos to BB for writing it!

BB didn't receive well deserved recognition for it. The ideas are not original, and bits and pieces and different versions have floated around for years. But it was her personal summary and she spent time and effort writing the piece and very definitely deserves the credit and kudos. If I write about Einstein's theories they are not original to me either, but the writing is.

Theoretically, Bryan owns it. If one posts something on a message board, it's like giving it to to the person who makes it possible for all here to communicate the way we do. I think that was likely part of why infopowa, who are on good personal as well as business terms with Bryan, would assume it would be ok to publish the post.

I don't think anyone involved in this acted in ill will.

Plagiarism is alive and doing very will online. The site www.copyscape.com allows you to enter your writing and search the web for rip offs. I can't tell you how much of my writing gets ripped off - on a daily basis even. So much that I only chase down the worst offenders anymore, it would turn into a fulltime job to police the web for my own stuff if I wen't after everything. It's a mess, and it's unethical. You will find CAP full of posts about entire site content being stolen. Bryan has had trouble with this, too.

I consider those people thieves. But I don't see what happened here that way. I think it happened because BB wrote something that needs to be widely read, and theoretically she does not own it after posting it here. If she had posted it on her own site, that would be different.

BB, I hope you are feeling flattered, you should, it is flattering. Not every post here at Meister gets such immense exposure all over (none really), and while you were not always credited, you know, and we all know now that it's your piece and you can be proud of it. :notworthy

 

[GaryWatson]

Dominique,

I agree with the most part. The truth is, whoever rewrote this article did a 10 min job and tried to use it as theirs. Thats not an attack on the company name, that is an attack on the individual. BB should be proud, and lets not forget the message she put forward but I still feel Infopowa have a duty to send a few chips her way, and if not public, a personal appology.

In a way, this could have been dealt with in a less uglier fashion and I think it takes a little away from the actual point, THE ARTICLE!!!

 

[catrina m]

I remember reading the original here and thought it was a great job.

They should give credit where credit is due.

It was a fantastic post! Posted here first.

 

[steinhaug]

And the winner is?

Money makes the world go round, news agencies rip of anyone anytime all the time! Look at newspapers and news sites in different countries, same story just translated from one language to another. Nobody even cares anymore. Reporters (a dying breed by the way, if anyone left?) don't even care to rewrite a story, just translate it. Heck - they can't even spell anymore, misspellings and strange translated sentences which doesn't make any meaning unless you translate back to original language.

I live in Norway and see this all the time, espesially in IT-related news. Don't you love it when Washington Post comes with a long article it pops up a stream of lookalikes all over the world! Everyone wants to be the author, on the other hand nobody wants to do the piece. We are a bunch of lazy a**holes in 2008!

I am sorry to see your story was ripped off this way, you truly deserve a check in the post! Your post was ripped for a commercial feed, everyone else made money from your post and you didn't. On the other hand, looking at the current world of affairs - tough luck buster! Even CM doesn't care about this, and he has the legal copyright of your work - so case closed!

I probably sound a little harsh here, however the world can be looked at theoritical or practical. I choose the practical one! If you do choose the theoretical be prepared to be treated as cannon fodder!

Thumbs up bb28, and great article, great points!

 

[BingoT]

I am sorry to see your story was ripped off this way, you truly deserve a check in the post! Your post was ripped for a commercial feed, everyone else made money from your post and you didn't. On the other hand, looking at the current world of affairs - tough luck buster! Even CM doesn't care about this, and he has the legal copyright of your work - so case closed!

I know Bryan does care on this.
He does have to look out for his members also.