Bonus Complaint Confiscation at Lucky247 Casino

[Ivan4eg88]

Hi all!

I played no deposit freespins at Lucky247 casino, made a wager, send my documents to support, they reviewed it.
After that i requested a withdrawal. After a few days withdrawal was cancelled and money was confiscated.
I send e-mail to their support asking for a reason of confiscation and they answered:
"Hi ******,

Thank you for choosing Lucky247 Casino.

Upon reviewing your game play we have confirmed that the majority of your winnings were won off free spins and there was no deposits activities.

Therefore your withdrawal was confiscated.

Should you require any further assistance, feel free to contact us at any time as we are available 24/7 at your convenience."

I asked: "So can you send my money back to my account and i will make a deposit?"

They answered:

"Hi *******,

Thank you for choosing Lucky247 Casino.

Upon reviewing your game play we have confirmed that the majority of your winnings were won off free spins and there was no deposits activities.

Therefore your withdrawal was confiscated. Your deposit was to have been made before the withdrawal request. It will thus remain confiscated.

Should you require any further assistance, feel free to contact us at any time as we are available 24/7 at your convenience."

Is it normal? I played no deposits in many casinos and never see such bad practice.

 

[Tirilej]

If I remember correct then what they are saying is written in their rules.

Have you not read them?

They are trying to make people sign up with those free spins that are not suppose to be free. I didn't know they were possible to play without making a deposit first.

 

[Ivan4eg88]

If I remember correct then what they are saying is written in their rules.

Have you not read them?

They are trying to make people sign up with those free spins that are not suppose to be free. I didn't know they were possible to play without making a deposit first.

I read T&C. They are saying that it is possible to make minimum deposit and withdraw bonus winnings. The problem was that i requested withdrawal before making deposit.
But at another casinos, when cashout is cancelled because deposit needed, they return money to balance.

 

[Ivan4eg88]

I asked support to explain why they confiscate my money.
They answered:

"Hi Ivan,

Thank you for choosing Lucky247 Casino.

Kindly be advised that we have received your recent withdrawal request, however upon reviewing your game play we have confirmed that the majority of your winnings were won off free spins.

Please note the point below stipulated in our promotional terms and conditions regarding winnings off free spins - Point 15 under terms and conditions:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The Casino further reserves the right to limit any withdrawal/s from bonus/free money/ to (5) times the value of the bonus and 100 casino credits currency from winnings attained from bonus free games or free spins issued. Note that this applies to progressive jackpot wins as well. This limit is applied to all bonuses where no deposit has been made unless otherwise specified. This includes the limiting of any cash withdrawal from the initial no deposit bonus until the fifty (50) times play through requirement has been met.

Cashins attained from winnings on Free Spins are limited to 100 credits.

We trust the above explanation will suffice for the confiscation of the cashin."

I can't understand this explanation, they confiscated my money and show me term about withdrawal limit. I requested withdrawal of 100 euro as in the terms.
I pm'ed to Lucky247 CM's represantative, he read this topic but answered nothing
And it is accredited casino?

 

[jshort]

The rep never replied to me either awhile back when I asked him about a contradictory term in their T&Cs regarding video poker being allowed during bonus play.

Hopefully you'll get your $100 owed to you.

 

[dunover]

The rep never replied to me either awhile back when I asked him about a contradictory term in their T&Cs regarding video poker being allowed during bonus play.

Hopefully you'll get your $100 owed to you.

No, he won't. The terms are clear saying a minimum deposit must be made prior to withdrawing any NDB winnings. He invalidated his withdrawal by failing to do so. Game over.

 

[miso]

They should ask for a min deposit for verification purposes.

To claim winnings from non-deposit bonus money, players are required to supply a valid withdrawal (PMOP) method that is controlled by a bank (this will exclude Skrill, uKash, NetTeller Click2Pay, etc. ). Where the deposit option cannot be used as a Preferred Method of Payment, example Ukash; the withdrawal will be processed to this Card or Bank account supplied. The deposit value is to be turned / wagered a minimum of once.

What bothers me is that they confiscate progressive wins won on free spins. Unlikely scenario, but could happen.
Not to mention that endless spam. I was in contact with their rep, but nothing changed.

 

[Ivan4eg88]

No, he won't. The terms are clear saying a minimum deposit must be made prior to withdrawing any NDB winnings. He invalidated his withdrawal by failing to do so. Game over.

Yes, but the terms says anything about confiscation in case of requesting withdrawal before making a deposit.
The same term is in most other online casinos and if you requesting withdrawal before deposit they simply turn money back to your casino balance and you are able to deposit and then withdraw your money.

 

[petro]

No, he won't. The terms are clear saying a minimum deposit must be made prior to withdrawing any NDB winnings. He invalidated his withdrawal by failing to do so. Game over.

That seems unreasonable to my mind. The casino should say he can't withdraw until he has made a deposit; not steal his winnings.
OP should contact the rep and if the rep does not cooperate contact max to PaB.

The rep can be found here.

 

[Ivan4eg88]

That seems unreasonable to my mind. The casino should say he can't withdraw until he has made a deposit; not steal his winnings.
OP should contact the rep and if the rep does not cooperate contact max to PaB.

The rep can be found here.

I pm'ed casino rep today, after my message he read this topic but answered nothing

 

[petro]

I pm'ed casino rep today, after my message he read this topic but answered nothing

Wait for a few days. If you don't get a response PaB.

 

[aceking123]

I pm'ed casino rep today, after my message he read this topic but answered nothing

hmm try this one , shihaam , vipsupport@lucky247.com , they could no doubt point you to whats going on if the reps not responding .

 

[Ivan4eg88]

hmm try this one , shihaam , vipsupport@lucky247.com , they could no doubt point you to whats going on if the reps not responding .

It seems that it's support for VIP players. I am not VIP. I will wait for a few days.

 

[miso]

I wanted to mention Sacha, but she left the building it seems, her account is dormant. The new rep never posted or anything, so all you can do is wait.
Just keep in mind that no deposit wins are not exactly the top of their priorities. Having said that a rep for accredited casino is supposed to reply to
any played issues in a timely manner.

You haven't breached any rules, as far as we know. Nowhere does it say that the winnings will be confiscated when a WD is made before making a
deposit. The part of terms I pasted is quite badly worded, they don't even mention that a deposit has to be made, only that you have to provide them
with a deposit and withdrawal method. It's up to you to understand that "provide" means "deposit"

Just give it a while and if things don't move, PAB

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

 

[vinylweatherman]

They should ask for a min deposit for verification purposes.

To claim winnings from non-deposit bonus money, players are required to supply a valid withdrawal (PMOP) method that is controlled by a bank (this will exclude Skrill, uKash, NetTeller Click2Pay, etc. ). Where the deposit option cannot be used as a Preferred Method of Payment, example Ukash; the withdrawal will be processed to this Card or Bank account supplied. The deposit value is to be turned / wagered a minimum of once.

What bothers me is that they confiscate progressive wins won on free spins. Unlikely scenario, but could happen.
Not to mention that endless spam. I was in contact with their rep, but nothing changed.

This is the first time I have seen a casino claim that Neteller isn't good enough for a first withdrawal!

There is something VERY fishy going on at Neteller. It may not legally be a bank, but it is still regulated properly, both by the IOM and the UK. It works effectively like a bank current account, and has strict KYC procedures of it's own, stricter than some casinos.

It seems that casino operators are running scared of Neteller and Skrill, yet they refuse to say just what the problem is. For users of Neteller, it's legal status also means that balances are NOT protected in the same way that bank balances are, and this could be a problem if the flight of operators gets significant enough to threaten the viability of running Neteller. This has already happened to Click2Pay, it no longer exists having closed down due to lack of business. I had an email telling me that my long dormant Click2Pay account would be closed as the company was withdrawing the service.

That term also suggests that even withdrawing after making a deposit would not be allowed to Neteller, as it states that where the verification deposit comes from Neteller, it doesn't count to validating it as a valid PMOP. If the verification deposit doesn't count, then logically ANY deposit made from Neteller doesn't count as verifying the method, the implication being that they do not pay back to Neteller, but only to a nominated bank account the details of which must be supplied beforehand.

Neteller also have the dubious reputation of being far too cooperative with casinos who dispute a players' win. They will sometimes tell the casino about a player's Neteller activities with third parties, and also offer a "no questions asked" facility for casinos to "charge back" a withdrawal they paid earlier if they then decide that the play was "abusive". They would not get this level of cooperation from a bank, definitely not where the bank tells the casino about other transactions the account holder has made, and to whom. The bank would not even confirm or deny a correct guess from the casino, if they did, the DPA would have them and they could face a fine from the ICO.

 

[Lucky Lefty]

Hi Ivan4eg88's

Lucky Lefty here - the representative of the casino. Firstly please accept my apologies for the late response to this matter.

I've read through the thread and discussed the matter with the Casino Management team - they've advised me that the terms and conditions were adhered to in the decision that was made on your account. I do understand that the support team mailed you to request the necessary deposit in order to validate the withdrawal & due to no response the winnings were confiscated.

Should you wish to discuss the matter further please feel free to contact me directly: although it does appear that the decision made by the Management & Security team is final I'd be more than happy to direct you to the relevant authorities to make an official appeal.

kind regards
LuckyLefty

 

[petro]

I do understand that the support team mailed you to request the necessary deposit in order to validate the withdrawal & due to no response the winnings were confiscated.

I think this might be the problem.

My question would be; did the casino give the player a reasonable amount of time to respond?

 

[Ivan4eg88]

Hi Ivan4eg88's

Lucky Lefty here - the representative of the casino. Firstly please accept my apologies for the late response to this matter.

I've read through the thread and discussed the matter with the Casino Management team - they've advised me that the terms and conditions were adhered to in the decision that was made on your account. I do understand that the support team mailed you to request the necessary deposit in order to validate the withdrawal & due to no response the winnings were confiscated.

Should you wish to discuss the matter further please feel free to contact me directly: although it does appear that the decision made by the Management & Security team is final I'd be more than happy to direct you to the relevant authorities to make an official appeal.

kind regards
LuckyLefty

Hi!
My documents was reviewed 29.10
Money was confiscated 01.11
It is only a few days.
Support never said that i have limited time to deposit, so i did not hurry to deposit as soon as possible.

 

[petro]

The reason given by the rep:

I do understand that the support team mailed you to request the necessary deposit in order to validate the withdrawal & due to no response the winnings were confiscated.

Is different to the reason that support@lucky247 gave:

Upon reviewing your game play we have confirmed that the majority of your winnings were won off free spins and there was no deposits activities.
Therefore your withdrawal was confiscated. Your deposit was to have been made before the withdrawal request. It will thus remain confiscated.

So, on one hand the rep is saying they confiscated the winnings because of no response and on the other hand support@lucky247 are saying the winnings were confiscated because no deposit was made.

These are two different things, so which should we believe is the reason for the confiscation?
I would say it's better to go on what the rep is saying because it's the most recent reason for the confiscation. And it seems that the time-frame the player was given to respond was unreasonable.

I would still advise to PAB in this situation unless the T&C stipulates a time-frame. And the only mention of a time frame in the T&C I read was for 90 days.

I just found this in Lucky247's T&C:
However in certain circumstances (special bonus events, etc.), if a player requests a withdrawal prior to fulfilling all their wagering requirements of the bonus, they will forfeit their remaining Bonus Balance.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

But since this term does not specify what a "special bonus event, etc." is, the term is irrelevant.

I also found this in Lucky247's T&C:
To claim winnings from non-deposit bonus money, players are required to supply a valid withdrawal (PMOP) method that is controlled by a bank (this will exclude Skrill, uKash, NetTeller Click2Pay, etc. ). Where the deposit option cannot be used as a Preferred Method of Payment, example Ukash; the withdrawal will be processed to this Card or Bank account supplied. The deposit value is to be turned / wagered a minimum of once.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It's very poorly written. I can't see where it says players must make a deposit to withdraw winnings on NDBs.
If I'm reading this correctly it talks about players supplying valid withdrawal methods and then disconnected from that it states "The deposit value is to be turned / wagered a minimum of once."
So, I would ask the casino; Where is it located in the T&C that players must make a deposit prior to withdrawing from an NDB?

 

[Ivan4eg88]

The reason given by the rep:

I just found this in Lucky247's T&C:
However in certain circumstances (special bonus events, etc.), if a player requests a withdrawal prior to fulfilling all their wagering requirements of the bonus, they will forfeit their remaining Bonus Balance.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

But since this term does not specify what a "special bonus event, etc." is, the term is irrelevant.

No, it is about requesting withdrawal before the wagering of bonus is completed. I requested withdrawal when bonus was fully wagered.

 

[petro]

No, it is about requesting withdrawal before the wagering of bonus is completed. I requested withdrawal when bonus was fully wagered.

This is what I'm up to: I would ask the casino; Where is it located in the T&C that players must make a deposit prior to withdrawing from an NDB?

I noticed a conflict in the T&C at Lucky247.
It lists VP as counting for 2% of the WR. Later in the T&C it states: "All video pokers will NOT contribute to bonus wager requirements and all players with bonus balances will be excluded from wagering on video pokers."

I should also mention that I tried to contact their live chat. They advertise 24 hour help but it's been off-line for at least an hour.

 

[jshort]

This is what I'm up to: I would ask the casino where is it located in the T&C that players must make a deposit prior to withdrawing from an NDB?

I noticed a conflict in the T&C at Lucky247.
It lists VP as counting for 2% of the WR. Later in the T&C it states: "All video pokers will NOT contribute to bonus wager requirements and all players with bonus balances will be excluded from wagering on video pokers."

Already asked them about their contradictory T&Cs; no response.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Ivan4eg88's

Lucky Lefty here - the representative of the casino. Firstly please accept my apologies for the late response to this matter.

I've read through the thread and discussed the matter with the Casino Management team - they've advised me that the terms and conditions were adhered to in the decision that was made on your account. I do understand that the support team mailed you to request the necessary deposit in order to validate the withdrawal & due to no response the winnings were confiscated.

Should you wish to discuss the matter further please feel free to contact me directly: although it does appear that the decision made by the Management & Security team is final I'd be more than happy to direct you to the relevant authorities to make an official appeal.

kind regards
LuckyLefty

That's an odd way to interpret the emails sent by CS

They seem to state that the winnings were confiscated because they were all won from free spins, and didn't really address the issue of a confirmation deposit. There is nothing to suggest to the player that all they need do is make a deposit in order to have the decision reversed and the winnings paid.

As well as the short timeframe, only a narrow variety of methods "count", with the most common deposit methods on offer not counting. It therefore isn't simply a matter of a player making a deposit, but a matter of a player first having to set up a new deposit method other than their usual one, get money into it, and then make a deposit. All assuming of course that they read between the lines of the email and interpreted it to mean that a deposit was required, rather than it stating that the winnings were confiscated.

If a deposit method is offered by the casino that normally works for withdrawals too, it's reasonable for a player to assume this is all they need, other than their KYC documents. This looks rather like the player being ambushed with a series of hoops to jump through that are not mentioned in the terms and conditions with any degree of clarity, and then being accused of being deliberately uncooperative because they missed one.

It seems to me the decision to confiscate was made right from the start, and it was never intended to offer the player a way out by having them deposit. The discussions about the player having been given an opportunity which they chose to ignore is really a blame shifting exercise to make it look as though there was every chance that the player would get paid if they made a verification deposit.

This is also what would happen to other players who read the term, play the free spins, and then provide an approved method of withdrawal as defined in the term:-

To claim winnings from non-deposit bonus money, players are required to supply a valid withdrawal (PMOP) method that is controlled by a bank (this will exclude Skrill, uKash, NetTeller Click2Pay, etc. ). Where the deposit option cannot be used as a Preferred Method of Payment, example Ukash; the withdrawal will be processed to this Card or Bank account supplied.

The real oddity in this term is that for it's purpose Neteller is classed as a payment method that can't be used to pay a withdrawal, which as any Neteller customer knows is bullshit. It is also out of date because Click2Pay has shut down. Both Skrill and Neteller are properly regulated by the UK, and in the case of Neteller, also by the IOM. They both have to follow the same anti money laundering laws that banks have to follow, and both operate along the lines of a non interest bearing current account hybridised with a prepaid payment (credit) card. In some respects, Neteller are even stricter than a regular bank. You can only have one Neteller account per household, but an individual can have many different current accounts at my bank (Lloyds), along with savings accounts and credit cards. One can then have even more accounts through different banks. Unlike Neteller, my bank will tell you absolutely nothing about my "third party" transactions on the account given to effect a withdrawal from a free chip, nor any of the other accounts. Neteller on the other hand is notorious for being over cooperative with casinos by telling them information about other transactions that might allow the casino to make a judgement as to the intent behind claiming a free chip at their casino. It's those players that take your free chip and gladly send you the details of a current account at a bank (that they may have just set up for the purpose of receiving free chip withdrawals), that you should be worried about.

If anything, sending a cheque through the post to the registered address is the best way to make life hard for multi accounters. They would need access to several physical properties, much harder that setting up "child" current accounts alongside their main banking facility.

 

[petro]

I'd be more than happy to direct you to the relevant authorities to make an official appeal.

I don't know how maxd feels about this but I think it's better to PAB first.

 

[maxd]

I don't know how maxd feels about this but I think it's better to PAB first.

I'd say it's up to the player. If they think they'd get better service on their issue by going to the licensing body -- in this case the LGA in Malta -- then by all means that's what they should do.

The casino is of course free to recommend whatever they like but IMO they're not in the position of being able to dictate to the player where the player takes their issue. I know Malta is trying to block third parties (like us) from being involved in player issues but until there are legitimate legal reasons for doing so I'm of the opinion that players are still free to seek whatever assistance they feel they need.

If anyone has specific questions on such matters they are always free to ask Bryan or me directly. PM or email, works either way. If you ask the question here on the forums we might not see it so in that case please do use the "Report Post" feature to bring the question to our attention (see the link in my signature).