Club World Casinos - licensed?

[The Dude]

I know there was an issue about the Club World group of casinos being licensed - and yes, they claimed to have been licensed in Curacao - but are they?

"Club World Casinos operates through the gaming License holder BeSoftware incorporated under the laws of Curacao for the purpose of operating virtual casino gambling on the Internet. "



The official Curacao chamber of commerce shows "no results" for that company:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I checked all results for "software" - yet "besoftware" is not listed. Why?

Odd thing is this is what Revenuejet did in 2014 - claimed to be run by a company that didn't exist. And we know what happend to them.

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2014/

 

[lnspin]

Hey Brian, Sent you a PM about this, take a look at it when you get a chance

 

[The Dude]

Is it that people don't care about what is happening to this casino group? Feel like I'm talking to myself here.

 

[rena35]

I for one care and i am glad you are warning people now like you did with the casino titan group. You can lead a horse to water...well you know. I was hoping things got better, so few places to play.

 

[chuchu59]

I have a funny feeling that more RTG casinos will do something roguish soon. I hope the safebet era isnt returning.

 

[Tirilej]

I searched a bit and the only thing I could find was this. Not Inc but NV, and that was the only with BeSoftware and Curacao.
The link didn't work of course.

Edit: I have the real link now. I asked support.
Old / Expired Link

But if the company exist is maybe another question, but don't they check even that?

 

[KasinoKing]

Is it that people don't care about what is happening to this casino group? Feel like I'm talking to myself here.

To be honest - I don't care about them very much any more.
The guys working there I interacted with were (are) all wonderful, friendly nice people: Karolina, Martin, Steven, Jonathan - all top-notch
But the COMPANY's attitude to players and affiliates has always been lacking IMHO. I don't mean rogue-like, just poor compared to the best groups.
The "license" they held wasn't really worth the paper it was written on anyway - so what's the difference if they're licensed or not?

The group had (still has) great potential which has never been realised, due to poor management decisions. Shame really...

KK

 

[weesie]

Is it that people don't care about what is happening to this casino group? Feel like I'm talking to myself here.

I have been waiting for them to get their act together.

How long I am willing to wait, I don't know.

It would be nice to play there again since USA players have such limited

choices.

 

[cpdnd31]

I loved CW group. However I wont touch them until I know once again that they are a top notch casino.

I actually only play casinos that take and withdraw with bitcoin. Im sick of wire transfers and Canadian checks that go bouncy bouncy.

bitcoin only for me.

Intertops is doing a nice job and I am hearing wonderful things about Casino Extreme. i am waiting until someone I know does a big withdrawal thru bitcoin to see if there are any hiccups then I will be depositing there.

I am so done running in circles toplay online and then if you win big you have to wait and worry. bitcoin only and then there is no excuse as to why you did not recieve payment.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Is it that people don't care about what is happening to this casino group? Feel like I'm talking to myself here.

To be honest - I don't care about them very much any more.
The guys working there I interacted with were (are) all wonderful, friendly nice people: Karolina, Martin, Steven, Jonathan - all top-notch
But the COMPANY's attitude to players and affiliates has always been lacking IMHO. I don't mean rogue-like, just poor compared to the best groups.
The "license" they held wasn't really worth the paper it was written on anyway - so what's the difference if they're licensed or not?

The group had (still has) great potential which has never been realised, due to poor management decisions. Shame really...

KK

In reference to the attitude towards the players, I have experienced certain lack of attention towards players and certain issues with managing the casino since belonging there. A lot of these issues can be considered minor, and have never prevented me from playing there. I have in the past brought up some of these issues, but none of these have prevented me from playing there. Here's a few examples: lack of VIP program, not grouping randoms correctly in set groups, allowing processors to overcharge. I can recall that there was not a lot of hysteria due to lack of attention in the past, and CW was considered one of the better RTG's. Ultimately CW has always paid quickly so I have pushed to the side any lack of detail and I have always considered them a top RTG, comparatively speaking.

I mention this because although management and licensing has changed, has the most important thing, paying players stopped?

Change of management can always be a major thing, and I do understand from reading the thread of that, the CM CW relationship looked seriously strained. As a business person I have had many client relationships change and end when new management came in. Sometimes I sucked up dislike for changes and other times I have continued to pursue my views and lost the client. Even with management change these businesses continued to operate and provide products or services. Some succeeded and I'm sure some failed.

I agree with KK that the licensing can be considered an insignificant issue especially for the US Player. Online gambling in the US is obviously not considered legal, so skating around a license isn't really a surprise. Everything about online gambling in the US has always been shady, so it is good CW has always stuck to paying.

I understand the change of management could hurt things, so it is very smart to remain vigilant, but CW has been such a top RTG for a longtime, that I would need to continue to give them the benefit of the doubt until something such as payment issue arise.

 

[bonustreak]

We got a bit annoyed with slot tournaments, contest etc with the CW gang about 2 yrs ago. To be specific there was an employee that worked there a couple years ago, who was not very friendly towards my moderators for contest etc.
I just want to say that I am saying the brands were bad or suffering. Jonathan ,Martyn,Carolina are amazing people and really made the ship run so well. The one bad apple was removed a few yrs back but now that I know the new
owners are taking over, I have decided not to work with them on the level I once did..

 

[The Dude]

I searched a bit and the only thing I could find was this. Not Inc but NV, and that was the only with BeSoftware and Curacao.
The link didn't work of course.

Edit: I have the real link now. I asked support.
Old / Expired Link


But if the company exist is maybe another question, but don't they check even that?

Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head. This Besoftware company needs to be listed in the Curacao chamber of commerce - it's not. And we are all aware how lax the licensing can be on this island. If it is not listed there, why not?

To be honest - I don't care about them very much any more...

Well, you should care about them if you are looking at this from an affiliate's perspective. If you have sent players there, you want to make sure that those players are treated well - fairly and properly. If there is a sign of them doing something dodgy, then your player base should be made aware of this.

Something dodgy is going on, and from what I have experienced in this business, the truth will come out in the end. The Internet does not lie, and it is easy to start connecting the dots when enough dots start appearing in front of you.

I should add that business ethics covers every aspect of doing business - and is paramount with Internet businesses since so much is built on trust. It's the freaking Internet.

Whether it's paying your bills on time, adhering to your terms and conditions, or treating players and your marketing partners properly - bad practice in one realm will poison the others.

If a company is willing to screw over it's players, they will do the same to their marketing partners as well as to the pizza delivery guy.

And visa versa. If a company is willing to f&*% it's business partners, they will eventually shaft the players. Speaking from nearly 19 years worth of experience in this business, I think I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Tirilej]

Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head. This Besoftware company needs to be listed in the Curacao chamber of commerce - it's not. And we are all aware how lax the licensing can be on this island. If it is not listed there, why not?



Well, you should care about them if you are looking at this from an affiliate's perspective. If you have sent players there, you want to make sure that those players are treated well - fairly and properly. If there is a sign of them doing something dodgy, then your player base should be made aware of this.

Something dodgy is going on, and from what I have experienced in this business, the truth will come out in the end. The Internet does not lie, and it is easy to start connecting the dots when enough dots start appearing in front of you.

Us players are really easy to fool that's for sure. I did find it odd that there was no information about the company on the internet though, at least nothing I could find.
They were really fast in giving me the link though so maybe the staff isn't aware or suspicions either.

 

[maxd]

... The guys working there I interacted with were (are) all wonderful, friendly nice people: Karolina, Martin, Steven, Jonathan - all top-notch

You might want to update your Rolodex, people move on and that certainly applies here.

 

[lockinlove]

From a players perspective, Karolina made that casino great.

Now that there are new owners which are obviously misinforming her or she is ignoring it because she cherishes her job, who knows.

One thing can be certain, their reputation has had a hit against it with all the misleading crap and ignorance from the owners

 

[maxd]

From a players perspective, Karolina made that casino great.

Agreed, but a casino is a team of which the Manager is absolutely an important part. What made CWC great from an industry point of view was that Jonathan assembled a great team, strongly emphasized the importance of respecting the player, and made sure that ethos permeated the entire organization. Good casinos don't happen by accident and CWC was great. I think it's important to give credit to all those that made it so, Karolina included.

 

[dunover]

Something is a bit sniffy here if you ask me: Tirilej gave us a url to an apparent license page (which I also found) which is this:
Old / Expired Link

This doesn't look right to me as I've often checked Cup-o-cocoa's official site and it always uses the url/domain

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

as do sub-domains. notice the 'e' !!!

Are you lot sure this isn't a 'lookalike' url - are you 100% sure that Cup-o-cocoa CWG certificate is Kosher?

Would explain why Bryan can't find this lot in the Cup-o-cocoa 'Chamber Of Commerce'

P.S. Looking further this site:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I think is nothing to do with licensing, more a license holder offering hosting and skins to casinos and other services, similar to a master license holder in the UK giving White Label operations out to other operators. I think this a bit different to a casino having their own license from curacao-egaming.com

 

[gsx600]

I stopped playing there a while ago...I am playing at casinos that withdraw to bitcoin also.

 

[KasinoKing]

You might want to update your Rolodex, people move on and that certainly applies here.

I am fully aware that 2 of the people I mentioned are no longer with the company - that's why I said "were (are)".

I was NOT aware of what a Rolodex was though - I had to Google that!

KK

 

[shewoff]

I would say that the member's here may have eased off of CWG. When the issue of the card pay system vanishing and they seem'ed content to string player's along. It seemed fishy that far back as far as I'am concerned.

The thread that I started about that issue was very active with US player's concern's. And no one except Karolina bothered to even try to put player's at ease. It show's that US player's are perhaps getting sick and tired of being the whipping post for the online casino group's to beat on.

Sooner or later this will become a issue with the power's that be and it may come down to a loss of any accredited casino's that US player's have left and that is not many nowaday's.

I'm sure that I'am not the only one who has been around long enough to remember the times when the casino's just seem to go bad all at once.I played at many many casino's back in the day that I can no longer play at because they dropped the US player's like a pile of hot rock's.

I will play as long as it seem's possible to win and get rewarded for my play by being paid in a timely manner. I'am one of those who does not just play for the entertainment value bot to win and I'am proud of that.

I would very much like to see any statistic's on the percentage of US player's as a whole in the industry? We may be stuck with certain casino's but if we play enough we have the voice to make people listen. Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

 

[BMWSTACK]

Us players are really easy to fool that's for sure.

Why do you say this? First off CW is not US exclusive, plenty of non US play there. So it's not only US they attempt to fool with potential deceptive information.

So why are you taking a shot at US people?

 

[cj1990]

For what it is worth I withdrew about 1.6k from casino extreme off of a 50.00 deposit back in January . And 500 from them in the same month, and more.

They have always been fair to me but I won't play with bonuses there due to their restrictions.

This is really the only casino I don't stress about getting paid from and it's damn near instant.

I feel rather confident depositing my money there .

I loved CW group. However I wont touch them until I know once again that they are a top notch casino.

I actually only play casinos that take and withdraw with bitcoin. Im sick of wire transfers and Canadian checks that go bouncy bouncy.

bitcoin only for me.

Intertops is doing a nice job and I am hearing wonderful things about Casino Extreme. i am waiting until someone I know does a big withdrawal thru bitcoin to see if there are any hiccups then I will be depositing there.

I am so done running in circles toplay online and then if you win big you have to wait and worry. bitcoin only and then there is no excuse as to why you did not recieve payment.

 

[Jasminebed]

I care. I have just had nothing useful to add, but I appreciate the info.

I stopped playing with CWG for reasons unrelated to trustworthiness or payments, rather a snit over no birthday bonuses despite losses almost two years ago.

But I've returned to casinos I stopped playing at in the past, but nothing CWG sends is enticing me given the current changes and non-status.


If you will lie about your licensing, something easily checked, can you be trusted NOT to lie about other things, perhaps things not so easily checked?

 

[Tirilej]

Why do you say this? First off CW is not US exclusive, plenty of non US play there. So it's not only US they attempt to fool with potential deceptive information.

So why are you taking a shot at US people?

Now where did you put your brain?

If I had written US then ok, but I didn't. I wrote Us = us, we, the people, the gamblers

 

[dunover]

Why do you say this? First off CW is not US exclusive, plenty of non US play there. So it's not only US they attempt to fool with potential deceptive information.

So why are you taking a shot at US people?

She started the sentence with 'us' as in 'we' not 'US' meaning USA....

 

[Deanna]

Do we know that Karolina is still there? The last few PMs I had with her seemed off, the sentence structure was not her norm if that makes any sense. I just wondered if it was really her. I have only played there once or twice in the last few months, when I had payouts pending at my other two main casinos. I'm kind of with the rest of the group, just waiting to see what happens. I will say that all the time I played there Karolina was super spot on in taking care of me, that's what made it such a good place to play for me.

 

[The Dude]

Us players are really easy to fool that's for sure...

That's how I read it. US 'merican players.

 

[The Dude]

Do we know that Karolina is still there? The last few PMs I had with her seemed off, the sentence structure was not her norm if that makes any sense. I just wondered if it was really her. I have only played there once or twice in the last few months, when I had payouts pending at my other two main casinos. I'm kind of with the rest of the group, just waiting to see what happens. I will say that all the time I played there Karolina was super spot on in taking care of me, that's what made it such a good place to play for me.

She was spot on. Won Best Casino Manager two years in a row for good reason. Just ask Max how helpful and professional she was - she was really on top of things there.

 

[Tirilej]

That's how I read it. US 'merican players.

Now I can be a bit evil, but never that much. I do respect players from the US just as much as from any other country.
Nothing more needs to be said about that

I suspect Karolina is not there now. The awards are put back on Club Worlds site, except for her award, which she really wanted there.
Then I've seen a new member called Karolina. That was the gossiping part of me speaking

 

[Webzcas]

The staff that are still there should not and cannot be held accountable for what is happening at Club World. Unfortunately the main person who made all the decisions who I trusted implicitly has left the building. I don't have a very good feeling as a result ....

 

[dunover]

That's how I read it. US 'merican players.

She knows English well enough to capitalize both the 'U' and the 'S' if she meant Americans. Poor Sara, needs a hug and a glass of wine now.

 

[lotusch]

Agreed, but a casino is a team of which the Manager is absolutely an important part. What made CWC great from an industry point of view was that Jonathan assembled a great team, strongly emphasized the importance of respecting the player, and made sure that ethos permeated the entire organization. Good casinos don't happen by accident and CWC was great. I think it's important to give credit to all those that made it so, Karolina included.

Why would you change something that is good.
I do not understand.
CWC group had a great reputation amongst their players and got some raving reviews on gambling forums and platforms.
Why tarnish all this by changing the managment.

Bad move I suppose.

 

[maxd]

... CWC group had a great reputation amongst their players and got some raving reviews on gambling forums and platform.

The short story is that it was a hostile take-over where newbies took over from and effectively pushed out the former chief of operations.

The new management has made some highly controversial decisions. The old team -- folks that we all knew and respected -- has been gutted.

 

[bonustreak]

This is a case of evil taking over the good.. I cross my fingers and hope that 'J' comes back with a new brand and these evil doers are put out to the pasture. They should not succeed off the back of a man who made
all these brands what they are today. I don't feel comfortable sending players to any of these casinos and I will support my long time friend. I feel really bad for the employees left behind,they are not the bad apples but merely just pawns in an evil game.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Now where did you put your brain?

If I had written US then ok, but I didn't. I wrote Us = us, we, the people, the gamblers

Oops ok I feel better that we are all in the same boat, now I can say your statement is entirely correct.

 

[shewoff]

You ask WHY?MONEY,MONEY,MONEY that is no doubt why the change. More money even if it is from a bunch of crook's or non-gaming money entities. It will always be that way in this biz.

CWG was a great group back then and now it does appear that they have been taken over by a group that lack the ability or care what the player's want. It just will not and does not matter to them.Recovering the investment and making more is the real and only reason behind many of these "HOSTILE TAKEOVER's".

And people who are looking to better their lot in life are it seem's to be the honey in the pot?We,Us, It really does not matter they will take advantage of ALL.Thank's to CM and forum's of a like mind some of us can be spared this loss. Thank you,CM Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

 

[Tirilej]

Oops ok I feel better that we are all in the same boat, now I can say your statement is entirely correct.

You US people are so sensitive sometimes

 

[shewoff]

:lolsign: Good stuff!Ya gotta love the sense of humor here.Peace Out! shewoff

 

[weesie]

You US people are so sensitive sometimes

"Sometimes" is questionable any more.

This whole world has gone "PC" nuts and I would bet someone would

argue with a person that says the sky is blue! (When in fact, it is!)

Seriously!


It makes me crazy to read some of the stuff I have read.

Almost glad I am old and not long for this world any more.

Frightens me to think what will come of it.

 

[Jasminebed]

The sky actually isn't blue. The sun produces the full spectrum of light, but due to molecules in the atmosphere, blue light is the one most efficiently scattered, and what we predominantly see.

Just saying

 

[rena35]

Hopefully CWG will chime in

 

[The Dude]

Hopefully CWG will chime in

I wouldn't count on it.

 

[shewoff]

Oh Yes, I must agree with ya Bryan. That would no doubt place them where they do not want to be. And that would be held accountable for their action's.But would not that be fun? Oh I think so and just to see them squirm.

I would actually challenge any of the CWG group that are or have been monitoring this thread to come on out and give us your take on thing's?Come on what would you have to lose?

Sadly I don't think so.censored Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

 

[weesie]

The sky actually isn't blue. The sun produces the full spectrum of light, but due to molecules in the atmosphere, blue light is the one most efficiently scattered, and what we predominantly see.

Just saying

Yeah, yeah, yeah.......... I get what you're saying Jasminbed......

But I wasn't being scientific with the description ...... just the color, mam!

 

[maxd]

Hopefully CWG will chime in

To what end? We know the new guys have already done some pretty shitty things, our old friends there are gone. They can chime away but it's hard to get music out of a turd, and who wants to hear it anyway? Perhaps not the most erudite metaphor there but you get the point.

 

[Tirilej]

To what end? We know the new guys have already done some pretty shitty things, our old friends there are gone. They can chime away but it's hard to get music out of a turd, and who wants to hear it anyway? Perhaps not the most erudite metaphor there but you get the point.

The thing is Max, that we don't know as much as you do. We've been told that they changed owners, license, removal of the awards from their site which were put back, and that some staff have left them. We haven't been told all the shitty stuff they've done.

Now I don't play there anyway but my guess is that many people who are doesn't take this as serious as they maybe should.

 

[maxd]

The thing is Max, that we don't know as much as you do. ...

Fair point. I'd say wait a week or two. I think most of the dirt will be public knowledge by then and I'm pretty sure most of you aren't going to like it.

 

[KasinoKing]

Fair point. I'd say wait a week or two. I think most of the dirt will be public knowledge by then and I'm pretty sure most of you aren't going to like it.

Well the sooner the better.
There are many affiliates promoting these guys on their websites (including me) based on their previous high reputation - if it's going to turn into a pile of manure, we need to know ASAP so we can take them off our lists.

KK

 

[maxd]

... we need to know ASAP so we can take them off our lists.

Understood, I expect you'll know soon enough.

 

[The Dude]

RE affiliates: I would suggest that you check your stats for the past year carefully. I would also recommend finding a replacement.

I will be contacting affiliates very shortly on this via PM.