Club World Casinos - licensed?

[greedygirl]

Too much focus on Affiliates, how about how the casino treats the players? That should be the core issue here, not how about Affiliates make a living off people losing.

This IS about protecting the players. If you know that an operator is committing theft and fraud upon those they rely upon to deliver the players, history will show you that the players are next in line. There are two reasons operators don't pay their affiliates and vendors: 1) Greed and 2) No funds in the coffers for payments. Usually #1 creates #2.

If you believe we are focusing too much on affiliates, you are absolutely wrong. Affiliates are the first to get screwed and players won't be far behind. Please understand we ARE trying to protect the players.

 

[Dinahnana]

I think the writing was on the wall that Club World Group was heading for Rogue Town when they removed Neteller and Skrill from their cashier system. This to me is a bad sign since Jackpot Capital Group still has them. Also when they were bought by a shady outfit I knew this was going to happen. So now we are left with a handful of decent RTG casinos. RTG is not coming out of this in a good way in my opinion since as it stands the vast majority of the casinos operating on their software are rogues. This is not good.

I think if RTG wants to stay alive maybe they ought to license their games in Europe to multi platform casinos so that we in Europe can enjoy playing the games without worrying about situations like this happening. I am not sure it can be done but if Videoslots has Rival then why not some RTG games? Just a thought.

If the whole debacle with Purple Lounge casino taught me is that nothing is certain in the online casino industry and casinos can go from being excellent to rogue in a very fast and spectacular fashion. I am saddened by what has happened with CWC group as they were the best RTG casinos out there.

I am sure their great people Martyn and Karolina will not have any problem finding new employment as they have publicly proven that they can do a top notch job and that I think are qualities that any good outfit are looking for so I wish them all the work and thank them for their years of service.

Very dark days indeed and I am truly pissed that their affiliate program has shafted their affiliates since it's mostly the affiliates that bring the customers in and a casino cannot survive without them. I am not an affiliate but I think that job is a very difficult one at the best of times. They put so much work into their sites and sometimes the rewards are small and sometimes big so when a major affiliate program goes rogue and screws them out of their hard earned money it really gets my goat.

 

[nutnut]

This IS about protecting the players. If you know that an operator is committing theft and fraud upon those they rely upon to deliver the players, history will show you that the players are next in line. There are two reasons operators don't pay their affiliates and vendors: 1) Greed and 2) No funds in the coffers for payments. Usually #1 creates #2.

If you believe we are focusing too much on affiliates, you are absolutely wrong. Affiliates are the first to get screwed and players won't be far behind. Please understand we ARE trying to protect the players.

Well I disagree, the two are totally separate. I have worked with companies before, running ads and at times they have pulled and not paid me what i owe. But it does not relate at all to the players not being paid. Affiliates trying to force their view point will no doubt win on here given half the forum is running their own.

But it won't wash with me. Until the players are screwed then the affiliates complaining about not being paid is a totally different point.

 

[nutnut]

I think the writing was on the wall that Club World Group was heading for Rogue Town when they removed Neteller and Skrill from their cashier system. This to me is a bad sign since Jackpot Capital Group still has them. Also when they were bought by a shady outfit I knew this was going to happen. So now we are left with a handful of decent RTG casinos. RTG is not coming out of this in a good way in my opinion since as it stands the vast majority of the casinos operating on their software are rogues. This is not good.

I think if RTG wants to stay alive maybe they ought to license their games in Europe to multi platform casinos so that we in Europe can enjoy playing the games without worrying about situations like this happening. I am not sure it can be done but if Videoslots has Rival then why not some RTG games? Just a thought.

If the whole debacle with Purple Lounge casino taught me is that nothing is certain in the online casino industry and casinos can go from being excellent to rogue in a very fast and spectacular fashion. I am saddened by what has happened with CWC group as they were the best RTG casinos out there.

I am sure their great people Martyn and Karolina will not have any problem finding new employment as they have publicly proven that they can do a top notch job and that I think are qualities that any good outfit are looking for so I wish them all the work and thank them for their years of service.

Very dark days indeed and I am truly pissed that their affiliate program has shafted their affiliates since it's mostly the affiliates that bring the customers in and a casino cannot survive without them. I am not an affiliate but I think that job is a very difficult one at the best of times. They put so much work into their sites and sometimes the rewards are small and sometimes big so when a major affiliate program goes rogue and screws them out of their hard earned money it really gets my goat.

This is not true at all, once you have the links for sign ups all it requires is a few words and images and good SEO skills and basic web design skills and knowledge, affiliate sites should be hobbies not full time jobs living off them. I can find a million sites with same casinos and links, only sites like this stand out from the crowd.

 

[dunover]

Too much focus on Affiliates, how about how the casino treats the players? That should be the core issue here, not how about Affiliates make a living off people losing.

How ridiculous - CASINOS make a living off of players losing. Far more than affiliates ever will.

I suggest you read and understand the thread before making snide remarks about affiliates - let me explain, in case you have difficulty in grasping it, why the focus is on affiliates:

Firstly, there is proven theft from affiliates, as yet not from players but no doubt that will follow, especially when somebody tries to cash a big win out. Ask Bryan, money is being stolen by reassigning or detagging players.

Secondly, players are already signed up there and may well get ripped off - so what's the logical thing to do, to stop this scam expanding? Contact all decent and honest affiliates and get them to immediately withdraw any links to the rogue shitbags and criminals that now run the craphouse. This greatly reduces the chances of any new players being drawn into the CWG cesspit and fucked over.

Lastly the whole craphouse has been taken over in operation by a very rogue affiliate group that have made money by defrauding Netent, players and every other twat unwise enough to be associated with them and the vomit and filth they peddle to the unwary.

So it's CM (also an affiliate site) who has investigated these scum, informed other webmeisters (and anybody else who will listen) of their bilious tricks in order to propagate removal of their links to prevent players in future from being scammed.

These 'greedy' affiliates have spent their time reworking their sites in order to achieve removal of links and have probably sacrificed the little bit they (may) have been paid by doing so.

So these glib comments aren't very welcome, especially from somebody who clearly hasn't a clue how hard and stressful the affy has it sometimes.

P.S. I just noticed another stupid comment:

"..all it requires is a few words and images and good SEO skills and basic web design skills and knowledge..."

So in one bad sentence you've listed 5 skills of which the average joe will have 1. SEO skills along with detailed knowledge of the industry and slots probably very few have. Yet you've managed to trivialize it and belittle it all in one line. As if anybody can do it. Which is why everybody does it eh?

I don't know what your issue is with affiliates - envy? Resentment because you've lost too much gambling? Whichever, you are starting to sound spiteful and are getting close to flaming here. Listen to Greedygirl, she grasped the point immediately. Take note.

 

[Tirilej]

Well I disagree, the two are totally separate. I have worked with companies before, running ads and at times they have pulled and not paid me what i owe. But it does not relate at all to the players not being paid. Affiliates trying to force their view point will no doubt win on here given half the forum is running their own.

But it won't wash with me. Until the players are screwed then the affiliates complaining about not being paid is a totally different point.

So you're saying that Bryan are wrong who Rogue them even though they have stolen affiliate earnings from both him and other affiliates?
You are aware that this forum are run by affiliate money aren't you?

I can't believe what I'm reading. I would never play at a company that have treated people like they have done.
I would never play at a place that are working with Affpower who thought it was fine using fake games.
I'm not an affiliate but I believe in justice for everyone!

Edit: dunovers was posting a bit stronger words while I was typing...

 

[nutnut]

Dunover you won't change my opinion, I know the effort that goes into making a site for sign ups, and it does not require the effort that is made out by some. As I also stated it should be a hobby for 99% and full time for 1%.

As for envying them? Ridiculous comment, i ran several websites for years and turned over large sums of money from ad revenue, and one thing I was offered was sign up betting site accounts, I refused them as I felt morally they are wrong and greedy. If i wanted a affaliate site I can knock one up tonight, so no envy is not the word, nor do I have a gambling problem as suggested too.

Personally I'm sick to back teeth of these sites, streamers and YT accounts spamming sign up links. Thats just my opinion. Before this gets into a slanging match this will be my last comment.

 

[greedygirl]

Well I disagree, the two are totally separate. I have worked with companies before, running ads and at times they have pulled and not paid me what i owe. But it does not relate at all to the players not being paid. Affiliates trying to force their view point will no doubt win on here given half the forum is running their own.

But it won't wash with me. Until the players are screwed then the affiliates complaining about not being paid is a totally different point.

This is so offensive on so many levels.

If I'm to understand this, it's ok with you for affiliates to not just go unpaid, but to receive falsified information on what is truly due to us. So long as the players are being treated well???

In other words, if I steal from your mother, it's ok if I treat you nicely? What a load...

I'll be celebrating 17 years in this industry next month. I learned in the earliest months that more important than any casino...more important than whatever website you may operate...players come FIRST. Without players, you have no income. I've also learned early on (and this is through the school of hard-knocks) that once a casino dives into a purposeful road of theft and deception towards its advertising partners, players will be next to suffer. The situation we're discussing is not just some unfair change in terms radically affecting future income. No. This is manipulation of tags and numbers. The number of players tags in question run into the thousands. While other webmasters have privately shared with me stories similar to my own, I'm not going to speak on their behalf. I will say however, in the case of GoneGambling we will lose nearly 40% of our income as a result. It's going to be incredibly difficult for me to make ends meet as a result. But in your mind, that's ok--I should continue to promote them...pat them on the back for a job well done, because FOR THE MOMENT they're treating players well.

Not gonna happen.

I've spent the past decade busting my ass to make sure players are treated fairly. I've successfully negotiated literally millions of dollars in claims by players owed by countless casinos. And now I'm essentially being told by some forum poster that I'm not worried about players.

What a bunch of crap.

 

[Dinahnana]

This is not true at all, once you have the links for sign ups all it requires is a few words and images and good SEO skills and basic web design skills and knowledge, affiliate sites should be hobbies not full time jobs living off them. I can find a million sites with same casinos and links, only sites like this stand out from the crowd.

You may be right Nutnut but as far as I know you need more than a few words. You need to have articles of substance inputted on a regular basis in order to keep your site relevant within the Google search engine and that takes both ingenuity and work. This is part of the SEO skill set. It is a very competitive market out there with many talented people so you would have to be on top of your game in order to keep alive. You cant employ black hat SEO techniques because that is not only unethical in my opinion but if you get caught by Google your site will be booted posthaste. Please any webbies reading this post correct this if I am wrong.

You also need to make sure you keep updating your link info to reflect the changing bonuses, t's and c's etc because if you have outdated info on there and people sign up without knowing your gonna have some pissed off player.

So I guess each part of being a good affiliate may seem easy and little work on the surface but to put all the moving parts together in order to make your site one of the better ones takes work and you have to stay on top of things. Again I am not an affiliate but I am pretty much well versed in what it takes to make a site good. Just take a look at Dunpvers site for one and off the top of my head. This is an excellent site has good content and looks like he puts alot of thought and work into it and it shows.

P.S. If as others have already clearly stated in this thread a casino rips off their affiliates then the players will most certainly be next. So any affiliate that is aware of this situation but continues to promote CWC until it starts ripping off their players is as rogue as the casino itself.

 

[LHofsdal]

How ridiculous - CASINOS make a living off of players losing. Far more than affiliates ever will.

I suggest you read and understand the thread before making snide remarks about affiliates - let me explain, in case you have difficulty in grasping it, why the focus is on affiliates:

Firstly, there is proven theft from affiliates, as yet not from players but no doubt that will follow, especially when somebody tries to cash a big win out. Ask Bryan, money is being stolen by reassigning or detagging players.

Secondly, players are already signed up there and may well get ripped off - so what's the logical thing to do, to stop this scam expanding? Contact all decent and honest affiliates and get them to immediately withdraw any links to the rogue shitbags and criminals that now run the craphouse. This greatly reduces the chances of any new players being drawn into the CWG cesspit and fucked over.

Lastly the whole craphouse has been taken over in operation by a very rogue affiliate group that have made money by defrauding Netent, players and every other twat unwise enough to be associated with them and the vomit and filth they peddle to the unwary.

So it's CM (also an affiliate site) who has investigated these scum, informed other webmeisters (and anybody else who will listen) of their bilious tricks in order to propagate removal of their links to prevent players in future from being scammed.

These 'greedy' affiliates have spent their time reworking their sites in order to achieve removal of links and have probably sacrificed the little bit they (may) have been paid by doing so.

So these glib comments aren't very welcome, especially from somebody who clearly hasn't a clue how hard and stressful the affy has it sometimes.

P.S. I just noticed another stupid comment:

"..all it requires is a few words and images and good SEO skills and basic web design skills and knowledge..."

So in one bad sentence you've listed 5 skills of which the average joe will have 1. SEO skills along with detailed knowledge of the industry and slots probably very few have. Yet you've managed to trivialize it and belittle it all in one line. As if anybody can do it. Which is why everybody does it eh?

I don't know what your issue is with affiliates - envy? Resentment because you've lost too much gambling? Whichever, you are starting to sound spiteful and are getting close to flaming here. Listen to Greedygirl, she grasped the point immediately. Take note.

The bolded part is 100% spot on! And not to make myself sound like an idiot, I knew NOTHING how affiliates make money until I read Bryans article. Now this is just my opinion, but if you could screw over the ones that are taking the time to make your bottom line grow, it is only a matter of time before you screw over everyone else.

I really am thankful for people like Greedygirl and everyone that runs a player advocate site. Because they are all about PROTECTING the player!

So you're saying that Bryan are wrong who Rogue them even though they have stolen affiliate earnings from both him and other affiliates?
You are aware that this forum are run by affiliate money aren't you?

I can't believe what I'm reading. I would never play at a company that have treated people like they have done.
I would never play at a place that are working with Affpower who thought it was fine using fake games.
I'm not an affiliate but I believe in justice for everyone!

Edit: dunovers was posting a bit stronger words while I was typing...

Sara-it is not just you! It is the same for anyone with morals. To patronize an establishment that everyone knows has wronged many people, is beyond my belief.

What I do find truly amazing is the number of players and affiliates that are joining together to get the word out. Without sites like this one and all other player advocate sites players have no clue what kind of site they are dealing with.


LH

 

[dunover]

Dunover you won't change my opinion, I know the effort that goes into making a site for sign ups, and it does not require the effort that is made out by some. As I also stated it should be a hobby for 99% and full time for 1%.

As for envying them? Ridiculous comment, i ran several websites for years and turned over large sums of money from ad revenue, and one thing I was offered was sign up betting site accounts, I refused them as I felt morally they are wrong and greedy. If i wanted a affaliate site I can knock one up tonight, so no envy is not the word, nor do I have a gambling problem as suggested too.

Personally I'm sick to back teeth of these sites, streamers and YT accounts spamming sign up links. Thats just my opinion. Before this gets into a slanging match this will be my last comment.

You are naïve. 'Knocking one up' is about 10% of the overall enterprise. With a comment like that I find it hard to believe your other claims above.

Doesn't require effort? I laughed when I read that, I hope Simmo! reads it! Have you any idea of the vast amount of info some networks collate: images, reviews, csv data entries constantly being maintained and improved for the back-end all on a daily basis? The changing of promotional links on a daily basis, the analysis of new games and uploading it all? Adding daily blog updates, chasing up commission overdue and conversing with various affiliate managers?

You may have put minimal effort into your enterprises, but I can assure you there are many casino affiliates that do the opposite.

 

[Dave]

What a sad state of affairs.

For over a decade, this group went from strength to strength with the previous owner at the helm. Players were paid, affiliates were paid, and I trusted them.

I hoped that the new management might be able to succeed with help from the existing staff, but clearly that isn't going to happen. Martyn and Karolina put in their notice without having new jobs lined up -- that speaks volumes.

Stealing from Ted's widow and children was the final straw for me, though. That's just sick. How can they sleep at night?

I spent this evening taking down all of their reviews and special jackpot pages (they had a quite a few local progressive jackpots). I am still collecting data behind the scenes, for now, just in case there is some miracle scenario where the previous owner is able to regain control of the company and right the ship.

 

[Nightfly]

I really can't elaborate on what has already been said. Truly a big blow to RTG and players here in the States. I hope they realize they only hurt themselves.

 

[slotmaster]

I think the writing was on the wall that Club World Group was heading for Rogue Town when they removed Neteller and Skrill from their cashier system. This to me is a bad sign since Jackpot Capital Group still has them. Also when they were bought by a shady outfit I knew this was going to happen. So now we are left with a handful of decent RTG casinos. RTG is not coming out of this in a good way in my opinion since as it stands the vast majority of the casinos operating on their software are rogues. This is not good.

I think if RTG wants to stay alive maybe they ought to license their games in Europe to multi platform casinos so that we in Europe can enjoy playing the games without worrying about situations like this happening. I am not sure it can be done but if Videoslots has Rival then why not some RTG games? Just a thought.

If the whole debacle with Purple Lounge casino taught me is that nothing is certain in the online casino industry and casinos can go from being excellent to rogue in a very fast and spectacular fashion. I am saddened by what has happened with CWC group as they were the best RTG casinos out there.

I am sure their great people Martyn and Karolina will not have any problem finding new employment as they have publicly proven that they can do a top notch job and that I think are qualities that any good outfit are looking for so I wish them all the work and thank them for their years of service.

Very dark days indeed and I am truly pissed that their affiliate program has shafted their affiliates since it's mostly the affiliates that bring the customers in and a casino cannot survive without them. I am not an affiliate but I think that job is a very difficult one at the best of times. They put so much work into their sites and sometimes the rewards are small and sometimes big so when a major affiliate program goes rogue and screws them out of their hard earned money it really gets my goat.

I was actually going to ask videoslots for some time now what about real time gaming slots, I think the random jackpots and the low rtp and bad rep may not fit videoslots style though I would love videoslots to get them.

 

[Casinomeister]

Too much focus on Affiliates, how about how the casino treats the players? That should be the core issue here, not how about Affiliates make a living off people losing.

I am a firm believer that when running a company, your ethics are reflected throughout. What the casino operators are doing is fraud - it doesn't matter what flavor it is - fraud is fraud. And this is not a minor version of it (like not paying the pizza delivery guy), but possible 10s of thousands of dollars - maybe even reaching 100,000s - only a proper audit would be able to figure this out.

But a company that is willing to cheat its marketers, people who they more or less consider business partners, is the same type of company that will delay and stall payments so that you play your winnings back. It's cheating - and it doesn't matter what part of the office it's coming from. A cheat is a cheat.

 

[sapit222]

I was actually going to ask videoslots for some time now what about real time gaming slots, I think the random jackpots and the low rtp and bad rep may not fit videoslots style though I would love videoslots to get them.

RTG at Videoslots or some other good casino would be great.

 

[jetset]

I see that the Affiliate Edge site is still displaying both GPWA and Casinomeister award signage?

I have not been successful in giving them the right of reply to a story on this issue that we are preparing.

 

[dunover]

From the research I've done, the road seems to lead to Israel via Cyprus - surprise surprise.

 

[Dinahnana]

I was actually going to ask videoslots for some time now what about real time gaming slots, I think the random jackpots and the low rtp and bad rep may not fit videoslots style though I would love videoslots to get them.

I am by no means a slot expert but I am an avid slots player. RTG would have two choices to go if they wanted to market to multi-platform casinos.1. keep the random jackpots which I can't see why it cannot be done or 2. Get rid of the random jackpots and thereby upping the RTP of the games. I think RTG is being kept financially viable by all the rogue outfits that they supply to but if they were to go down the multi-platform route I think that is a more viable business option for them in the future in todays online gambling market. All this is just my opinion and suppositions but hey who knows it could work!

 

[Webzcas]

I see that the Affiliate Edge site is still displaying both GPWA and Casinomeister award signage?

I have not been successful in giving them the right of reply to a story on this issue that we are preparing.

Bryan the Casinomeister logo on Affiliate Edge is currently linking to their 2015 award page here https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2015/best-affiliate-program-2015/

You might want to 301 that to their new Rogue Page

 

[Dinahnana]

I am a firm believer that when running a company, your ethics are reflected throughout. What the casino operators are doing is fraud - it doesn't matter what flavor it is - fraud is fraud. And this is not a minor version of it (like not paying the pizza delivery guy), but possible 10s of thousands of dollars - maybe even reaching 100,000s - only a proper audit would be able to figure this out.

But a company that is willing to cheat its marketers, people who they more or less consider business partners, is the same type of company that will delay and stall payments so that you play your winnings back. It's cheating - and it doesn't matter what part of the office it's coming from. A cheat is a cheat.

Spot on post Bryan as usual and of course correct. A company that is willing to cheat their partners out of income which is bound to give them negative press will have no compunction to cheat out their players. When players start getting screwed around you can bet there will be more negative posts regarding this and to those players that have been following this debacle but continue to deposit at CWC and end up getting shafted deserve it as far as I am concerned because the writing is on the wall. It may be a harsh observation on my part but it's how I feel.

 

[maxd]

Well I disagree, the two are totally separate. ... But it does not relate at all to the players not being paid. ...

In other words you are relying on the kindness of cheats, liars and thieves and you're recommending that others should too. I sincerely hope that anyone who reads your words takes a moment to deeply and seriously reflect on what you are actually saying. Turning a blind eye on a criminal today is inviting him into your life tomorrow.

... all it requires is a few words and images and good SEO skills and basic web design skills and knowledge ...

As Dunover said, maybe that applies to sites you've worked on, or the times you worked on them, but that description you gave means almost nothing in this day and age. Small affiliates are dropping like flies these days and even those who've been in the game for a decade or more are being seriously challenged to keep their heads above water. If you think it's so trivial I encourage you to give it a try because it won't be long before you'll know what BS that truly is. Not trying to be offensive here, just saying that you are so barking up the wrong tree that it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

 

[dunover]

'affpower scam' is certainly pretty universal in Google now, the tossers from Tel Aviv will no doubt be renaming themselves shortly....

Which brings me to the question of WHY is Ask Grumblers the only mainstream site NOT to tell the truth about these c***s?

 

[Webzcas]

I prefer this one

 

[dunover]

LOL..... I quite like this one myself....