[CLOSED] ClubWorld: change the terms ... and forfeited $1,600

[ftg]

Hi

As requested by Rusty here is a new thread with full clarification of our terms on comps and bonuses.

Comps no longer have a max cashout rule, this is already in effect.

Bonuses will not have a 10x max cashout rule starting on Tuesday 3rd July.
Some high value bonuses might have a fixed max cashout rule on Random Jackpot wins but that detail will be specifically mentioned in the details.

Wagering for each bonus will be in the bonus details page found in the email sent or by clicking on the link in the marquee message. Customer service are also available 24/7 for questions on bonuses.

I hope this matter is now resolved to your satisfaction and you continue playing with us in the knowledge that we do appreciate you playing with us and we act on your suggestions to improve.

Thanks

Jason

I had a problem with my withdrawal at Clubworld recently about 10x Max cashout.

They imposed 10x max cashout rule in non-deposit bonus.

Jason left & I talked to Charlie, the Customer Support Manager just a few minutes ago.

I promised I would give Charlie 30 minutes before giving out the details. Actually Charlie rejected to reconsider but I would just wait for 30 minutes.

 

[daera]

I had a problem with my withdrawal at Clubworld recently about 10x Max cashout.

They imposed 10x max cashout rule in non-deposit bonus.

Jason left & I talked to Charlie, the Customer Support Manager just a few minutes ago.

I promised I would give Charlie 30 minutes before giving out the details. Actually Charlie rejected to reconsider but I would just wait for 30 minutes.

But what were the terms of the non-deposit bonus? Was there a max cashout on it? There is a max cashout on non-deposit bonuses, at least for some I know for sure. These terms have been on their site for awhile. Why post something without including the terms of that specific bonus or telling us what bonus it was exactly?

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[heatherad]

ftg..
Unless things have changed(which I've not heard), all non-deposit bonuses have a max 10x cashout. I made the post right after checking it out with Customer Support.

Just some information from Club World Support...

Welcome Bonuses this is the $750 3 deposit bonuses have a maximum cashout of $2000,
Normal daily email promotions that deposit coupons have no maximum cashout.
Also deposit coupons recieved from Customer Services, has no maximum cashout
Comp Points have no maximum cashout
Non deposit bonuses, Cashback bonuses, or promotions with prizes have a maximum cashout of 10x chip value.

Wagering requirements:

15x for welcome bonuses this is the deposit & Bonus together.
non deposit bonuses, have a playthrough of also 10x,

promotional emails, have a playthrough of either 10x or 15x, which they can find out from customer services, also deposit bonuses given by CS will also have a playthrough of 15 or 10x which they also can ask CS

Before playing with bonuses, its always a good idea to double check with Customer Service beforehand.

I'm guessing if they are saying it is 10x that it has not changed.

 

[ftg]

where is the terms of 10x max cashout

Even Charlie can't tell where I can find the terms of 10x max cashout.

The story is as follows:
1. 12 Jan: I e-mail the support asking for a non-deposit bonus.

2. 13 Jan: Charlie e-mailed me personally with $50. (no terms and condition attached in the e-mail)

3. 13 Jan: I had a decent run of BJ (as well as some slots) and ran up to $2150 and requested an cashout.

4. 14 Jan: I chatted to Live Chat stephen asking for cashout status. He told me that there's a max. of $500 for that bonus. I asked where I can find the terms. (I really don't know. I just remember that Clubworld cancelled the 10x cashout stuff)

5. Stephen pointed me to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and said the 10x max cashout rule was there.

He's absolutely wrong here, as I went through every single word of it and couldn't find any mentioning of 10x cashout.

He then said it was manager decision.

I even followed the link at the end of the page:

Bonus terms regarding no deposit bonuses and forum bonuses can be found by clicking here.

But it leads to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

only.

6. I capture the whole page of

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

in case they change it later on.

7. I called and talked to Charlie and asked him why there is a 10x max. He pointed again to me to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I stated again there was no such terms there.

He then said that I should know that there was a 10x cashout limitation since I was a regular player and this was included when the casino sent e-mail to all players to state there was no max cashout for deposit bonus. I told him what I can really remember is just the max cashout is cancelled (I am really honest, I don't know there's such 10x max cashout policy.)

I challenged what if there's a new player joining the casino last month but there's no direct answer from him.

He then said that earlier I received a non-deposit bonus from them by e-mail which include 10x terms. I said that I am not aware of this and this was not the bonus that we are talking about.


8. I then search Casinomeister while talking to Charlie over the phone since I remember Clubworld did announce this in Casinomeister and I thought if it really stated that, I have nothing to say.

I searched and found this thread. I refer this to him.

9. Charlie commented that Jason left.

10. I argued that there's no mention about the types of bonus


9. I emphasized that Jason stated that:
Bonuses will not have a 10x max cashout rule starting on Tuesday 3rd July.


================================================

So my arguements are:
1. Stephen and Charlie can't point out there is a 10x cashout in

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This is the official terms and conditions and we should follow strictly there.

2 The e-mail containing the bonus has no terms included and should refer it to the official terms and conditions but not on any earlier e-mail which may or may not be relevant to the bonus being given. (If I received several bonus with different terms and condition by email, how can I refer the issue to which e-mail?)

3 this of course existed some time ago but this is definitely not existing terms: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
I don't think you can follow any link the web site normally to the page. I mean there may be other old terms and conditions in the web servers with no links to them. They should no longer be valid.

4. I have no doubt that there may be 10x cashout there (and they know it internally) but it's their responsibility to let players know there's such terms attached when they give out bonus. If there's no such terms attach, player can only refer to the official terms and condition which is

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

That's it!


===================================================

Charlie decided to just send me $500, foreiting my $1600.

I WAS UPSET and think Clubworld is UNFAIR and UNREASONABLE.

 

[ftg]

This is what Charlie sent me regarding the withdrawal

===============================================

ith regards to our telephone conversation about the max cash out on a non deposit bonus I have listed the terms below for you:



Bonus Terms:

Please note that the maximum cash out on all Non-Deposit bonuses is 10x the bonus amount.

All our bonuses/coupons are non cash able and the amount of the bonus/coupon will be deducted from the withdrawal.



As for your recent withdrawal on a non max cash out



A $50 was given with a max cash out of 10x the bonus amount.

========================================================

It was quite obvious the terms was written when he wrote the e-mail by his understanding but not referring to their official t&c:

Bonus Terms:

Please note that the maximum cash out on all Non-Deposit bonuses is 10x the bonus amount.

All our bonuses/coupons are non cash able and the amount of the bonus/coupon will be deducted from the withdrawal.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This just shows how confusing max cashout rules are, and why most casinos just don't have them. It seems odd that MG casinos can safely run with no max cashout rules on their bonues, yet RTG have to stick rigidly to this rule or risk going bust.
It has been made worse by the forum rep saying one thing, but casino management limiting what "no max cashout" actually means in practice.

I dislike the rule, as it punishes those rare runs of luck, and they DO happen, yet when the run is in favour of the casino, there is no similar rule to help the player limit their total loss, such as a 100% rebate on losses beyond the highest max cashout.
This could also distort the house edge. A player could deposit many times with these bonuses, and FINALLY hit somethig that merely wins him back his money, yet this positive run could be cut by the max cashout, and he would NOT win back his money, but only a fraction of it. In this way, the rule caps positive variance, but does nothing to limit the negative variance.

I also found SERIOUS problems with their bonus mailers, they had a bonus for, say, 2nd Feb, but the link took you to a page giving the terms for a bonus dated 24th Jan, which had nothing to do with the offer. This happened repeatedly, and all these offers came from "Lauren", probably a made up name like "Lyris" of "Lyris Listmanager" to make it look like a real person had sent it, instead of a general player mass mailer. I ignored them all, since it was impossible to get at any terms and conditions, and eventually "Lauren" got the push, and I have received nothing since.
I have not played there in quite a while, and have replaced them with iNetBet recently. They have a more stable bonus regime, all the terms can be seen, and max cashouts only apply to simple free chips, better still, the bonus itself is CASHABLE, proven after my recent first cashout where the amount of the bonus was NOT removed from the total. In my final session, I won back all but $100 of my total deposits, but had a max cashout and phantom bonus rule applied, I would have probably only got half my money back, not nearly all of it.

 

[ftg]

Clubworld got my $1,600 but lost me as a loyalty player foreover.

Shame on Clubworld.

 

[winbig]

It clearly states (#14 on

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

):

14. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 10x the bonus amount.


The problem lies in the fact that this is a dynamically generated page (ASP), so there's no telling when/if this was updated recently.

 

[ftg]

This is newly added. I have saved the screen a few hours ago.

Here it goes!

Like I said earlier, no one from Clubworld can point out where they could find the max cashout rule!

The new terms #14 was newly added.

-------------------------------------

But this is also indicating that they don't put the rule of max cashout rule on non-deposit on their website after Jason announced here that:

Bonuses will not have a 10x max cashout rule starting on Tuesday 3rd July.

 

[ftg]

Clubworld,

OK. The change on the page is correct and absolutely needed so that you will have ground to impose max cashout rule.

But, how about my case?

It's quite sure now that you don't have this rule properly stated in your website as well as the email that you sent me the offer but when I win, you just want to take advantage of the rule that you are aware of but I have no idea of ?

Shame! Shame! Shame!

Is this a case for PAB? I never used it. Anyone can suggest?

 

[ftg]

It clearly states (#14 on

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

):

14. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 10x the bonus amount.


The problem lies in the fact that this is a dynamically generated page (ASP), so there's no telling when/if this was updated recently.

This NEWLY added terms is no help on the clarification of max. cashout policy of Clubworld, after a second thought. It created another confusion.

How about Comps? In my dictionary, Comps is non-deposit in nature, but I believe they don't have max. cashout limit on Comps.

That's why I though all bonuses are without any max. cashout limit when Jason (former rep. of Clubworld here) wrote in the forum:

Bonuses will not have a 10x max cashout rule starting on Tuesday 3rd July. (of 2007)



My fault or their responsibility?

 

[winbig]

This NEWLY added terms is no help on the clarification of max. cashout policy of Clubworld, after a second thought. It created another confusion.

How about Comps? In my dictionary, Comps is non-deposit in nature, but I believe they don't have max. cashout limit on Comps.

That's why I though all bonuses are without any max. cashout limit when Jason (former rep. of Clubworld here) wrote in the forum:

Bonuses will not have a 10x max cashout rule starting on Tuesday 3rd July. (of 2007)



My fault or their responsibility?

IIRC, they came flat out and said that there's no max cashout on comps...

 

[ftg]

I know their policy now but they should state very clearly in their web site.

Some casinos do classify Comps as non-deposit bonus and apply rules to Comps as if it is non-deposit bonus.

Now the point is they have just newly added the term #14

14. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 10x the bonus amount.

to their terms in their web site without anywhere mentioning on Comps.

What if one day Charlie leaves the company and then the new support manager intrepret that non-deposit bonus includes Comps? This is just the reverse of what is happening:


Jason (the former Clubworld employee) stated openly in the forum last year

Bonuses will not have a 10x max cashout rule starting on Tuesday 3rd July.

and now when I cashout, another manager said that Jason left already, and the rule of bonus above doesn't apply to non-deposit bonus.

My point is if they say Bonuses without classfying types of bonuses, the Bonueses should includes all types of bonuses.

 

[ftg]

ClubWorld: change the terms in their web site after my complaint and forfeited $1,600

I decided to make a formal complaint here：

Link Outdated / Removed


In short,

1. Clubworld didn't included the 10x max. cashout rule in the terms and condition but they claimed they have that for non-deposit bonus. They didn't include any terms about that in the e-mail when they sent me the bonus.

2. Clubworld added the terms in their web site after my complaint and after they forfeited my $1600 payout. ($2150 total request, $50 bonus, $500 sent to me, $1600 forfeited.)

 

[ftg]

Finally I decided to open a new thread to make a complaint at here

 

[vinylweatherman]

I decided to make a formal complaint here：

Link Outdated / Removed


In short,

1. Clubworld didn't included the 10x max. cashout rule in the terms and condition but they claimed they have that for non-deposit bonus. They didn't include any terms about that in the e-mail when they sent me the bonus.

2. Clubworld added the terms in their web site after my complaint and after they forfeited my $1600 payout. ($2150 total request, $50 bonus, $500 sent to me, $1600 forfeited.)

If they did indeed ADD this term after your complaint, and not merely made an existing, BUT VISIBLE, term more prominent, then they have broken one of the Casinomeister standards, one that holds the casino to the terms PUBLISHED AT THE TIME AN OFFER WAS TAKEN UP, and NOT what they have been changed to at a later date.
Can you show evidence that the change happened AFTER you received the bonus, and that the term did not exist on the website, OR the Email, at the time you were made the offer.

 

[ftg]

Yes. here it goes:

could also find the details in my another post:

Link Outdated / Removed

 

[jas2587]

any time I recieve a bonus
this is always included in the email
Kind Regards



Charlie

Customer Support Manager

ClubUSAcasino





Bonus Terms:

Please note that the maximum cash out on all cash back/loyalty/free bonuses given is 10x the bonus amount.

The maximum cashout on the Loyalty % deposit bonus is $2500.

For full details and terms on our bonuses, please go to: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)



Cindy

 

[ftg]

The above is the terms and conditions page that I capture about 12 hours ago.

They did change the page after my complaint. Very efficient!

 

[jas2587]

Yes. here it goes:

could also find the details in my another post:

Link Outdated / Removed

but when I click the link from my email
there is a difference in the wording


13. The first three deposit bonuses claimed at Club World Casinos are subject to a maximum cash out restriction of $//2,000.

14. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 10x the bonus amount.

15. In the event of a dispute, all decisions made by the casino will be final.

hmmm....

Cindy

 

[ftg]

any time I recieve a bonus
this is always included in the email
Kind Regards



Charlie

Customer Support Manager

ClubUSAcasino





Bonus Terms:

Please note that the maximum cash out on all cash back/loyalty/free bonuses given is 10x the bonus amount.

The maximum cashout on the Loyalty % deposit bonus is $2500.

For full details and terms on our bonuses, please go to: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)



Cindy

They told me that the terms should have included but when I checked the e-mail, sorry, they didn't included that, AND when I talked to Charlie over the phone, he did admit that he didn't included that in the email that was sent to me and then say that if it's not included in the e-mail, this rule should also included in their web site.

When I pointed out that I checked no such terms in the website, he argue that I should know that becasue I am a regular casino player.

and then they changed their web site, adding the terms in the page.

 

[ftg]

but when I click the link from my email
there is a difference in the wording


13. The first three deposit bonuses claimed at Club World Casinos are subject to a maximum cash out restriction of $//2,000.

14. The maximum cashout on all non-deposit bonuses is 10x the bonus amount.

15. In the event of a dispute, all decisions made by the casino will be final.

hmmm....

Cindy

They have changed their terms and condition page, adding #14 and the original #14 becomes #15.

 

[bb28]

I used the wayback website

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and the latest date on that page is from July 2007. I don't know if it's pertinent info or not since it's from July 2007.



I deleted the info because it probably isn't pertinent to this since it's from July 2007, but if anyone wants me to post it, let me know.

 

[winbig]

If they go back to 10x on comps and bonuses, they've lost a player. 'nuff said.

 

[ftg]

I believe that this is the REASONs of the forfeit of $1600:

1.They know they have such terms.

2.They forgot to make the 10x max cashout rule available to their website (human mistake?)

3. They mistakely didn't attach the terms when they sent out the bonus e-mail to me.


And these are the two actions taken to remedy the situation:

A. Forfeited my $1,600

B. Changed the terms to include the 10x max cashout rule.

 

[onemoorebaby]

I used to play at clubworld ALOT and played there yesterday for the first time since i can remember and I felt weird the whole time i played like a this doesnt feel right feeling.

Dismissing Sophie and Jason is the WORST thing they ever could have done. Everything went downhill from then.

They now have no clues at all and Tom has this I dont give a shit attitude.

they tend to change the rules now to suit them and I think its a load of crap

 

[Zoozie]

Again, again and again

Some casino managers just never learn. Whenever new owners take over casino they seem to start from scratch again and repeating the last 10 years of online-casino mistakes, instead of reading Casinomeister's page 1 on casino-management.

I believe you have documented you case pretty good and at least they are accredited. And I would be as pissed as you are.

But generally I have warned strongly (many times) about depositing with max-cashout restrictions because the effect of this is much more severe that players might image. (For free money you can not complain of course, but it still sucks and make unhappy customers).

A 95% high variance slot can easy become a 80% slot if you are using 2-5$ bet size, because of the maximum cash-out restrictions. Also the bonuses are slots only and RTG video-slots slots all has jackpots which the casino then take themself (very convinient) because of the max-cashout. I have seen RTG casinos with max-restrictions even on no-bonus deposits, making the big slot jackpots merely an illusion.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note

ftg - your email is bouncing. Clubworld is trying to PM you. You need to change your email address so that you can receive email notifications. Thanks!

 

[The Dude]

Just jumping in here real quick like.

If the casino made a mistake, I can guarantee they'll fix it. There is no need to begin a slam fest when it seems like there has been some confusion or miscommunication. Let's try to find out what went wrong before going ape-shit. Thank you.

 

[The Dude]

Moved posts

I've consolidated the posts that concern ftg's issue here in this thread. ftg had two threads going which is a bit messy.

@ftg - please understand that Club World's main offices are in the UK. You are making one post right after the other at 3am UK time. No one who can solve your problem is reading these at 3am. Please chill and let them fix this. Thank you.

 

[ftg]

Thanks, Bryan,

1. In fact, I did call and talk to their support manager Charlie for over 30 mins before posting the first message about this case. (which happened more than 24 hours ago)

2. I just receive a PM from Steve of ClubWorld and he replied me in the PM that:

"I have reviewed this case thoroughly I have come to the conclusion that you were not treated unfairly.

The terms of all our offers are well known and are made readily available. There has always been a maximum cashout of 10x the bonus amount for our free chips, this fact was the topic of discussion for the first thread that you posted in."

3. I emphasize that
- They didn't include the terms in the offer e-mail.
- They changed their terms in their website to include max. 10x cashou.
- They are still using the reason that "The terms of all our offer are well known and made readily availabe" (sorry! I don't think so!)

 

[ftg]

Adding some info to the gameplay:

Before they announced that they cancelled the 10x max cashout (which is before July of last year), as far as I can remember, I tried once when I reached the max. cashout and I stopped there immediately.

After they announced the cancellation, this time I didn't know that there is such "well known" 10x max cashout, and I continued to bet crazily and risking the balance there.

I just want to say I am a guy that would follow and honour the game rule, and I am not taking advantage of this.

Like I said earlier, it's their fault, their mistakes and I am the player the victim of their mistakes.

 

[winbig]

Adding some info to the gameplay:

Before they announced that they cancelled the 10x max cashout (which is before July of last year), as far as I can remember, I tried once when I reached the max. cashout and I stopped there immediately.

After they announced the cancellation, this time I didn't know that there is such "well known" 10x max cashout, and I continued to bet crazily and risking the balance there.

I just want to say I am a guy that would follow and honour the game rule, and I am not taking advantage of this.

Like I said earlier, it's their fault, their mistakes and I am the player the victim of their mistakes.

ok, I'm confused now....

So you signed up and took the ND before the max cashout rule was lifted? This would mean they would have to make the term retroactive if you were to be able to cash out above the 10x rule that was in effect when you played.

If that's the case, then would you expect them to retroactively change T&C that went against the player?

Not taking any sides here, but just looking at it from another angle.

 

[ftg]

no. no. no.

I just recall how I played differently before and after Jason's (last July) announcement:

Comps no longer have a max cashout rule, this is already in effect.

Bonuses will not have a 10x max cashout rule starting on Tuesday 3rd July.

and I have no idea that Jason's "bonues" only covered deposit bonuses.

 

[heatherad]

I'm not sure why you keep referring to July of 2007 when October 25, 2007 the terms where posted to clarify for another poster.


Welcome Bonuses this is the $750 3 deposit bonuses have a maximum cashout of $2000,
Normal daily email promotions that deposit coupons have no maximum cashout.
Also deposit coupons recieved from Customer Services, has no maximum cashout
Comp Points have no maximum cashout
Non deposit bonuses, Cashback bonuses, or promotions with prizes have a maximum cashout of 10x chip value.

Wagering requirements:

15x for welcome bonuses this is the deposit & Bonus together.
non deposit bonuses, have a playthrough of also 10x,

promotional emails, have a playthrough of either 10x or 15x, which they can find out from customer services, also deposit bonuses given by CS will also have a playthrough of 15 or 10x which they also can ask CS

Before playing with bonuses, its always a good idea to double check with Customer Service beforehand.

Maybe your issue at hand has nothing to do with the above stated.
Hope all gets straightened out soon though.

 

[ftg]

Thanks, heatherad.

I am NOT aware there was a thread dated "October 25, 2007"

Anyone my reference to the post of July is because this post is search result of Casinomeister.com web site when I showed to Support Manager (Charlie) over the phone that I am aware that the 10x max cashout was cancelled.

The two posts actually are not 100% irrelevant, just as a reference.

We are not coming to this forum to check terms and conditions. We are here for more important stuff...

When there is any dispute,we should referr to the official location, i.e. casino web site and the e-mail the offer was sent.

In my case, both proved to be failed and that's why I am making complaint.

Again, I can't agree to the casino Manager/support manager that since I am a regular player, I should be well informed and known of the special terms of the casino.

The terms and conditions page is actually for clarification purpose. If we can't rely on their own web site t&c, what else we can count on?

 

[heatherad]

The terms and conditions page is actually for clarification purpose. If we can't rely on their own web site t&c, what else we can count on?

After learning the hard way of using a bonus, I very rarely use any. The odd time I did, I always went to Live Support and made sure I knew the terms and conditions of the bonus at hand.
I will agree that all casino websites should be updated on a regular basis. Good luck in getting your issue resolved soon.

 

[ftg]

Club World,


You forfeited my fund because of your mistakes, not my fault.

I am not saying you are cheating me, but definitely you changed your terms and condition in your web site immediately after my complaint!

You may be getting my $1600, but you are losing me as a very good customer.

As actually I played more and more in Clubworld, in Dec 2007 alone, my deposit to YOU (Clubworld) is over $4,000

The forefeited $1,600 is just not a great deal compared to my total deposit and I can easily lose back to you but you have made a very stupid decision to make me an unhappy customer.

Do you see how stupid you are?

 

[Nifty29]

Hi ftg

Its difficult to see who is right and who is wrong here - Ive always been aware that there is a 10x cashout max on no deposit bonuses, and have been a player since they opened. Of course, if this wasnt explicitly stated on the website or in the email, then the benefit of the doubt should be given to the player IMO.

Is there any way you could post a copy of the email you received from Charlie actually awarding you the bonus? If it was given via live chat etc, do you have the transcript? One of my golden rules is never accept a bonus via anything other than email to avoid any problems when cashing out. If you arent 100% sure, then get it in writing.

It also seems that you wont be able to hang your hat on that post from July 2007, given that there is a more recent one (October 2007) stating that there is a 10x max cashout.

Having said all that, I hate these max cashout things and it also concerns me that all RTG casinos seem to have them (considering that MG and Crypto etc dont). Perhaps this says something about the financial reserve requirements of RTG licensees.

There is no need to begin a slam fest when it seems like there has been some confusion or miscommunication. Let's try to find out what went wrong before going ape-shit.

NOTE OF ADVICE: Saying something like 'Do you see how stupid you are?' is very counter-productive and is showing immense disrespect for Bryan, his forum (his 'home'), and what he tries to achieve for his members and the industry as a whole. If you visited my home and went 'apeshit' or started a 'slamfest' when I asked you not to, then I would ask you to leave.

 

[lojo]

Hope this isn't just muddle, but what I recall was that there was a discussion here and Jason clarified that Comps, as in comps, not no deposit bonuses, have no max cashout. Free money (not earned by play) always has and will have a 10x.

Just my recollection and nothing to argue about: the terms are the terms.. I'm out

 

[ftg]

Hi ftg

Its difficult to see who is right and who is wrong here - Ive always been aware that there is a 10x cashout max on no deposit bonuses, and have been a player since they opened. Of course, if this wasnt explicitly stated on the website or in the email, then the benefit of the doubt should be given to the player IMO.

Is there any way you could post a copy of the email you received from Charlie actually awarding you the bonus? If it was given via live chat etc, do you have the transcript? One of my golden rules is never accept a bonus via anything other than email to avoid any problems when cashing out. If you arent 100% sure, then get it in writing.

It also seems that you wont be able to hang your hat on that post from July 2007, given that there is a more recent one (October 2007) stating that there is a 10x max cashout.

Having said all that, I hate these max cashout things and it also concerns me that all RTG casinos seem to have them (considering that MG and Crypto etc dont). Perhaps this says something about the financial reserve requirements of RTG licensees.



NOTE OF ADVICE: Saying something like 'Do you see how stupid you are?' is very counter-productive and is showing immense disrespect for Bryan, his forum (his 'home'), and what he tries to achieve for his members and the industry as a whole. If you visited my home and went 'apeshit' or started a 'slamfest' when I asked you not to, then I would ask you to leave.

Thanks for your advice.

The e-mail is shown below:

Hi xxx,

I hope you are well and enjoying the Casino

As you will agree here at clubUSAcasino we pride ourselves on our Professional Service and treating our players in the best possible way.

In view of the Bonuses we give our players, these are probably the best and most often than any online Casino.

Usually I would not be able to offer a bonus at this time, as your account is showing over 100% of your deposits.

What I am prepared to do is to deposit $50 into your account and deduct this amount from your Loyalty Bonus for this month.

I hope this meets with your approval.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance

Kind Regards



Charlie

Customer Support Manager

ClubUSAcasino

 

[winbig]

Usually I would not be able to offer a bonus at this time, as your account is showing over 100% of your deposits.

Most other RTG's wouldn't give you a penny if you tried to cashout, for the above reason alone.

 

[ftg]

And this is what I received in PM about 9 hours ago:

Dear xxx,

Thank you for contacting me.

I have reviewed this case thoroughly I have come to the conclusion that you were not treated unfairly.

The terms of all our offers are well known and are made readily available. There has always been a maximum cashout of 10x the bonus amount for our free chips, this fact was the topic of discussion for the first thread that you posted in.

The bonus was administered according to our terms and conditions, and so you will not be receiving any further funds from play on this bonus.

Kind Regards
Steve Morgan
Casino Manager
__________________
www.clubworldcasinos.com

 

[ftg]

I am adding to my previous post about my standpoint:

I believe that this is the REASONs of the forfeit of $1600:

1.They know they have such terms (and many poster here but sorry I swear that I was not aware of scuh 10x max cashout thing.)

2.They forgot to make the 10x max cashout rule available to their website (human mistake?)

3. They mistakely didn't attach the terms when they sent out the bonus e-mail to me.

And these are the two actions Clubworld taken to remedy the situation and their own mistakes:

A. Forfeited my $1,600

B. Changed the terms to include the 10x max cashout rule.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If casinos are going to try the old "it's well known...." trick it doesn't wash. If PLAYERS claim they should be allowed to do something, because it is "well known to be OK with ***** casinos", players are tomd they should not rely on forum posts or the general opinion and knowledge of players, but to read the specific terms and conditions. With this in mind, casinos have to accept that this has to work when "general knowledge" works the other way. In this case, it was "well known" that RTG casinos have max cashout rules, but it is also "well known" that RTG casinos are rogue. If we are to accept that there are exceptions to what is "well known" in the player community, then casinos have to accept that they must define everything in terms and conditions, and if a term isn't there, it doesn't apply.

We are also discussing information supplied by Jason, but he has been dismissed, so any of those threads should no longer apply, and it is the casino terms and conditions that should.
Perhaps some decisions made under the old management were reversed, but the terms and conditions were not updated to fully reflect the policy of the new management. I get the impression that progress under the new regime has been backwards, not forwards as it should be, and Club World will quite possibly sink back into obscurity as "just another RTG casino", unless action is taken to prevent this by the new management.

 

[ftg]

That they changed (added actually) the terms on their web site after my complaint fully indicates that they have something wrong there.

Clubworld stops to further discuss with me on this.

Quite appointed.....This casino is an accredicated casino listed here......

 

[lojo]

Have you pitched a bitch, made a formal complaint with CasinoMeister? If so, you should probably try to be patient. The odd part to me, is that the 'no deposit bonus' was deducted from your Loyalty account for the month. That money, if I recall, has No 10x cashout.
Clubworld has always been fair in the past. I'm not forming an opinion on what is fair in your case, but if you haven't PaB, you should, and if you have, you might want to be as patient as you can and not post more until Max has done all he can.

Good luck.

 

[ftg]

yes. I also agree that Clubworld has been fair until and except this time, when they changed their terms after my complaint and used the "well known", "should know" excuse to forfeited my $1,600.

By the way, (you should also know and it is well known that) their loyalty bonus is classified as "non-deposit bonus" --- you see, that's why where there are unclear terms, we should follow the terms and conditions of their web site.

 

[uungy]

a google cache from the 12th Jan 08 Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) clearly shows that clause is not there

 

[wobble33]

hi,

i got a free chip off these guys also a while back..i was lucky too, and cashed x10 the free chip out. i knew it was x10 the value of the free chip, so cant really say who"s to blame here...