[CLOSED] ClubWorld: change the terms ... and forfeited $1,600

[ftg]

Quit disappointed to Charlie of Clubworld.

He just said he didn't know that the web page was changed:

charlie:
I am not aware of any change to the website, I do know that since I started to work here, many years ago, the max cash out on bonuses is 10x the bonus amount




me:
now you have terms #14 about max. cashout but when I talked to you and chatted to stephen two days ago, the #14 was NOT there.....



charlie:
I can not comment on something I know nothing about, that would be unfair.



He is lying....

 

[lojo]

You aren't helping your case, ftg. If you have not PaB, you should (unless BB or MD have told you it is not worth the effort) and stop posting inflammatory accusations of 'Lying'. If you have already PaB, you should still go mum on accusations. Do you want to be 'right', or do you want to be paid?

If you use and trust the process, and aren't satisfied in the end, then by all means bitch away. But you aren't increasing your chances of a happy resolution this way.

 

[ftg]

You aren't helping your case, ftg. If you have not PaB, you should (unless BB or MD have told you it is not worth the effort) and stop posting inflammatory accusations of 'Lying'. If you have already PaB, you should still go mum on accusations. Do you want to be 'right', or do you want to be paid?

If you use and trust the process, and aren't satisfied in the end, then by all means bitch away. But you aren't increasing your chances of a happy resolution this way.

Thanks lojo for your advice.

I will try to PaB in a few hours. I had never try to PaB since I joined Casinomeister and I am not familiar with the process but will definite figure it out.

Thanks again.

 

[lojo]

If you can keep your statement brief and to the point it should go a long way towards helping them to help you. Stick to the facts of the Original issue. They can see all of the other communications in this thread and will take them into account.

Best of luck

 

[footdr]

CLUB WORLD T&C ALWAYS INCLUDED 10x BONUS PROVISION

That provision has been listed in their terms and conditions since atleast last July. I saw it.

Also, Charlies emails announcing a bonus in my experience always have given the terms at the bottom of the email along with contact information.

 

[lojo]

That provision has been listed in their terms and conditions since atleast last July. I saw it.

Also, Charlies emails announcing a bonus in my experience always have given the terms at the bottom of the email along with contact information.

ftg has, probably, gone into the process. We will have a result eventually. I'm out.

 

[maxd]

Ok, let's try and bring a little order to this chaos.

ftg, you have not as yet filed a "Pitch a Bitch" on this. I suggest you do.

At this point I see nothing to be gained by continuing to bang away at this issue here in the forums. Much has been said, and repeated, and so it goes 'round and 'round.

So basically it comes down to this: file a formal complaint via the "Pitch a Bitch" process or walk away from this. Either way the time for raving away at it here in the forums is over.

I look forward to receiving your PAB.

Regards,
Max.

 

[daera]

If you didn't see any terms that specifically addressed non-deposit bonuses on their website when you received the bonus, it doesn't mean there were no terms.

Did you contact support or Charlie to ask about the terms and max cashouts BEFORE you played or AFTER?

After learning the hard way of using a bonus, I very rarely use any. The odd time I did, I always went to Live Support and made sure I knew the terms and conditions of the bonus at hand.

I couldn't agree more than that statement there from Heatherad. Always make sure you're clear on the terms and conditions, by checking with live support first. Especially if the bonus you received is not clearly defined on the site.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If you didn't see any terms that specifically addressed non-deposit bonuses on their website when you received the bonus, it doesn't mean there were no terms.

Did you contact support or Charlie to ask about the terms and max cashouts BEFORE you played or AFTER?



I couldn't agree more than that statement there from Heatherad. Always make sure you're clear on the terms and conditions, by checking with live support first. Especially if the bonus you received is not clearly defined on the site.

Not good enough, terms and conditions are KING, players are also told not to rely on customer support, and indeed many players have been told something by casino support that has contradicted the terms and conditions, and have been told they should have read the terms and NOT relied on support when this has lead to complaints about broken deals. casinos CANNOT have a "heads I win, tails you lose" situation with regard to this - it HAS to be in the terms and conditions at the time the player receives the offer by depositing. If it is added later, it applies from that date, and not retrospectively. If the casino made a mistake by forgetting to update the page, that is THEIR PROBLEM, and they should honour the terms as they stood at the time the player played.

ClubWorld have been a complete mess for a while, terms are often unclear, confusing, and misleading. Often, mailers will link to completely the wrong set of terms and conditions, and even when they link to the correct ones, they are not specific to the offer, but give the terms of the new player bonus, general policy, and only the bonus code for the actual offer in the Email. It didn't help when they kept making announcement after announcement in the forum, yet these "official" announcements never matched the terms as posted on their website, and then they fired the old team and brought in new managers, who made undocumented changes to the agreements that had been thrashed out in the forum between the then rep and the player community. They need to review everything, and make certain that their terms are clear, and fully up to date with CURRENT policy. They should also tell players that any agreements with the former team no longer apply, especially if they are going to void winnings based on "you should know that......" rather than what is included in their terms.

 

[Mousey]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I personally need confirmation that ClubUSA bonus T&Cs are:

Claim and play FREE money w/NO deposit and there's a 10x bonus max cashout rule.

Claim and play a Deposit Match bonus, and there's no limit to cash out (unless clearly stated in promo -- which might occur w/100% match or something).

This is the way I've understood their terms for quite some time. Am I getting them confused w/INetBet?? I know INetBet has the above bonus T&C ....

Edit: I forgot to add the following common ClubUSA term:
The bonus chips are unredeemable and will be removed from the associated cashout

Which I don't think applies at INetBet.

(Do casinos have any idea or care how difficult it is to keep up with all these different T&C? )

 

[lojo]

money is money

 

[tim5ny]

Club World,

Please put the same free chip in my account. If I get it up to $500.00 I will cash-out and be happy.

 

[ftg]

Thanks for all of your advice.

I had already PaB.

 

[takethemoney]

I learned my lesson taking bonuses from Clubworld. It's naive to think that you can wager a 35% bonus and your deposit 15x. I proved I could lose over and over again without making the wagering requirement. You're really better off there, not to take a bonus at all. They run the software just a bit tighter, in my exerience. The good news is, if you play by the rules, you'll get paid, or so I'm told, but the slots have been so tight for me, I have not been able to experience it for myself.

Having spent about $2500 since Dec 1st, which for me is tough, I now figure this place to be a bustout joint. (Software so tight, you'll stay stuck and down).

 

[footdr]

TERMS&CONDITIONS WERE NOT CHANGED PLUS.......

Actually, they improved their general Casino T&C page but the information regarding the free bonuses has not changed.

I personally find the Casino to be very fair, support to be fantastic, free bonuses to Vip or frequent players plentiful and cashins paid quickly.

It is a bit streaking on the wins. But when I win it is usually at least a thousand cashin.

YEPEE, tonight I won my first RTG random jackpot on one of the new games worth $3000.00

I had deposited 41.00 claimed the 50% bonus, total 61.00 . NOT BAD. But I have gone on long losing streaks also.

Just my thoughts

p.s. I only claim bonuses when my funds are really low. In this case the extra 20.50 helped alot

 

[ftg]

Actually after I PaB, I won't want to comment further but since you are saying that the terms and conditions page were not change, which is destroying my integrity, I think I have to comment.

I repeat once again:

When I was asked by Stephen and Charlie to look at their web page, I found no such 10x terms and asked them to figure out where it was but they failed.

I then made everal screen capture on the t&c page and several hours later, the page was changed.

The following is part of the screen capture.

 

[winbig]

It's hard to see, but says "Bonus terms regarding no deposit bonuses and forum bonuses can be found by clicking _here_.", right under #14.

I'm sure the 10x rule for any ND bonus would be found if you clicked on that link. Did you get a screenshot of that page as well?

 

[RobWin]

Actually, they improved their general Casino T&C page but the information regarding the free bonuses has not changed.

I personally find the Casino to be very fair, support to be fantastic, free bonuses to Vip or frequent players plentiful and cashins paid quickly.

It is a bit streaking on the wins. But when I win it is usually at least a thousand cashin.

YEPEE, tonight I won my first RTG random jackpot on one of the new games worth $3000.00
I had deposited 41.00 claimed the 50% bonus, total 61.00 . NOT BAD. But I have gone on long losing streaks also.

Just my thoughts

p.s. I only claim bonuses when my funds are really low. In this case the extra 20.50 helped alot

That's totally AWESOME footdr !!... especially off such a small deposit...have you cashed out yet ?

 

[elscrabinda]

There was another case of ClubWorld doing this a while ago on another forum. A guy there lost almost 20,000 I think due to a retroactive change of terms. Did the sensible thing of pitching a bitch to Bryan instead of shooting off on the forums but apparently after an initial acknowledgement that it was being looked into, this was ignored.

Coincidentally this was shortly before they were announced as an accredited casino, so Bryan obviously had more important things to discuss with them.

Anyone know if a rep from ClubWorld will be at the London party this week?

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's hard to see, but says "Bonus terms regarding no deposit bonuses and forum bonuses can be found by clicking _here_.", right under #14.

I'm sure the 10x rule for any ND bonus would be found if you clicked on that link. Did you get a screenshot of that page as well?

Maybe it was always there, but why have it nested yet another click down, why not have it as part of that page. It only adds confusion to have the terms spread out over a number of webpages. Terms should all be in one place, so that one the player has found the page, and read it through, they have all the terms and conditions.

It looks like the retrospective change was in fact them repeating this 10x term on the main page, rather than only having it under the link.
Since these are all phantom boni anyway, having a max cashout on top just seems overprotective. Further confusion was also added by the forum discussion with the rep last year. Promises were made, but these were not reflected in the terms and conditions. We had the rep saying one thing, and the terms page saying another.
It would be better to give smaller bonuses, but make them have no max cashout, as one can never predict when that lucky streak will hit. It is bad enough that RTG slots cap the bonus rounds, thus robbing players of the highest slice of positive variance. Other software, such as MG, just use the random nature of each spin, with no theoretical cap to a free spins payout.

 

[winbig]

Maybe it was always there, but why have it nested yet another click down, why not have it as part of that page.

Good point, but in this situation, it was there...Whether or not that page had the 10x max rule on ND bonuses is what is in question now.

 

[ftg]

It's hard to see, but says "Bonus terms regarding no deposit bonuses and forum bonuses can be found by clicking _here_.", right under #14.

I'm sure the 10x rule for any ND bonus would be found if you clicked on that link. Did you get a screenshot of that page as well?

No. I followed the link at the end of the page:

Bonus terms regarding no deposit bonuses and forum bonuses can be found by clicking here.

But "here" links to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, which is the general promotion pages.

(I have also stated clearly this point at here : Link Outdated / Removed )




And Even Stephen and Charlie couldn't show me the 10x max. cashout terms while we chatted (half hour) over the live chat and we spoke over the phone (another half hour).

And some time later I noticed the web page was changed.

 

[takethemoney]

Interestingly, my comp chips have never had a max cashout in the emails until the one I received yesterday. It said 10x max cashout at the bottom of the email. Usually they have just had from a 2x to 15x rollover. Ironically, I just happened make it to the 10X today and am awaiting a $750 payment. I know I'll get paid.

 

[ftg]

So sad!

Clubworld replied Max that the decision is final after I sumitted the PaB.


Clubworld, give me back the $1600. You did change your terms page in your website after my complaints. Can you stand out and say "NO"?

 

[bb28]

This thread must have caused a pretty big stink because last week I had deposit issues.......(like so many other people are still having) and I received a free chip via chat for my troubles. The person that I was speaking to in chat did note that the ND chip had a 10x max cashout. That is the 1st time I recall ever seeing a statement to that effect in chat.