Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[kakata]

Sorry Win Big I dont undearstend what you mean.
Try to explain to me in an easy way............Im Italian and my english is very poor( as you probably noticed)
What do you mean with cipher rules and so on.????
I gave him money .....he owes me...he must pay.
Thats the only way I see it.
Especially when he(cipher) is so arrogant (hope is right word).

 

[bongwater]

enough is enough

Cipher should not be allowed to use any of these online forums unless he answers some questions. From what I have seen he has never refuted anything said by WB. The only question is whether or not Cipher knows his program is a joke. He writes so passionately about his "sessions" that it seems he deosn't. It is obvious to me it is a joke as all it really does is record your wins and losses. I mean there may be some bells and whistles, but essentially you could accomplish the same thing with pen and paper, excel spreadsheet, or a bag of M & Ms(most likely how this got started). He recently claimed on his own forum that you could actually use this "system" at a real casino. This takes the "breaking the RNG" claim out of it. Can an intelligent person actually beleive this? Everyone will have to judge for themselves. Check out

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from his forum, written by one of cipher's disciples,



"Cipher displays strands vertically which is awsome, but the house edge is actually horizontal. Imagine a graph, like the ones used in stocks. When you start your graph and play session, have a line down the center of your paper, (graph paper works best) when the dealer wins put a hash mark down and when you win put a hash mark upward.after a few hands you will see how the machine is playing. In the house edge or in the player edge. Catman this explains why you left the casino and came back but were still losing, It was in the house edge, When the house is winning you have to play conservative until you see the climb upward. Prefereably past the center line you have drawn. I hope this helps some people. This explains why you can sit down sometimes and make a bunch of money and then lose it all because you bet the same way you were when you were winning, thats why if you cant see the house edge you wont know when to change the way you bet until you come out of the house edge. This along with Cipher is very good. Thanks Cipher for all your help, he was the one that helped me to figure this out, and again I hope it helps."

 

[lnspin]

theres one thing everyone should understand , if someone really has a guaranteed moneymake , they will NEVER sell it .

The first thing you should do when you see something that says GUARANTEED TO MAKE YOU MONEY is run the other way .

the only thing that is almost 100% guaranteed to make you $$ is work

 

[jerrylee]

Emotions are running high here and I feel for Westland Bowl too.
Even more charged is the blackjackinfo thread.

Best posts from there IMO, between all the mudslinging were
1. Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) www.ic3.gov
2. USPS Mail Fraud www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/welcome.htm

Not sure if it was answered by WB (OP) / Liquid Chips on BJI, but is
a. original agreement in writing - by email I guess about investing 20K?
b. and how did you send 20K payment? by mail/wire transfer.. ?

WB if your claim is truly legit, and sounds like it could be, save time and headache and file the claim. No more need to duke it out on the the forums.

 

[jerrylee]

theres one thing everyone should understand , if someone really has a guaranteed moneymake , they will NEVER sell it .
The first thing you should do when you see something that says GUARANTEED TO MAKE YOU MONEY is run the other way .
the only thing that is almost 100% guaranteed to make you $$ is work

Also, not to throw salt on Westland Bowl's wounds, but I agree with this warning.

So, let's all review the IC3's warnings on current Internet schemes...
www.ic3.gov/crimeschemes.aspx
We see it all the time, from the phishing emails to the Nigerian scams...but hey doesn't hurt to be aware.

 

[aodat2]

Quoting Liquid Chips from BJI, "Come on, work with me here. I won't ask for the interest if you just pay the principal of $17,600 in one cashier's check...just like I sent it to you."

I'm very sure that he actually sent it to him via MAIL. So yes, the Postal law thingy does apply here.

I would definitely like to see Cipher paying BIG TIME for this scam.

 

[BingoT]

Good Luck to all that are involved

I feel sorry for the one's he lead on.It's a shame you just can't trust no one on this online stuff.
Cipher should just face up to it and pay who ever has money coming.
Has anyone ever meet him face to face? or is he the type of @ that sits behind a keyboard.
I don't understand why would someone go his way to think they would be rich today.
I say take the money and go to a casino yourself and see what you can win on your own.

It's like the old saying.
"A Sucker Born Every Day"
or
I have Property on a great beach in Fla or Aruba real cheap.
And people fall for it everytime.
Fight for your rights and put this guy where he belongs
Two things in life I hate more A Liar or a Cheat.

Good Luck to all that are involved

 

[NextToYou]

This thread is hilarious. How stupid one has to be to believe that someone can beat online blackjack in long term (without promotions or bonuses) and then give him money?

The game is -EV, one will lose in long term, daa?

I looked at cipher website and looking page 5 sec one with brains can understand that the program he sells is total BS and whole site is just a try to "scam" some money. Scam with quotemarks, because its not illegal to sell something, like horseshit or fresh air, if someone is stupid enough to buy it.

OP:s money is propably already gone to feed someones gambling addiction.


P.S Anyone wanting to buy fresh air for $1000? I will send it in envelope.

 

[cheekymonkey]

P.S Anyone wanting to buy fresh air for $1000? I will send it in envelope.

What a rip off!

I can get it for 20

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.

 

[Westland Bowl]

Quoting Liquid Chips from BJI, "Come on, work with me here. I won't ask for the interest if you just pay the principal of $17,600 in one cashier's check...just like I sent it to you."

I'm very sure that he actually sent it to him via MAIL. So yes, the Postal law thingy does apply here.

I would definitely like to see Cipher paying BIG TIME for this scam.

I do have a copy of the cashier's check with Bruce Holway's name on it.

But I sent it via Federal Express, instead of the US Postal Mail. Does the Postal law thingy cover private/corporate carriers like FedEx, DHL, etc???

 

[tencardcharlie]

This thread is hilarious. How stupid one has to be to believe that someone can beat online blackjack in long term (without promotions or bonuses) and then give him money?

Things are bad enough for WB as it is. You don't have to rub it in.

 

[onemoorebaby]

This thread is hilarious. How stupid one has to be to believe that someone can beat online blackjack in long term (without promotions or bonuses) and then give him money?

The game is -EV, one will lose in long term, daa?

I looked at cipher website and looking page 5 sec one with brains can understand that the program he sells is total BS and whole site is just a try to "scam" some money. Scam with quotemarks, because its not illegal to sell something, like horseshit or fresh air, if someone is stupid enough to buy it.

OP:s money is propably already gone to feed someones gambling addiction.


P.S Anyone wanting to buy fresh air for $1000? I will send it in envelope.

Real nice that is

 

[umberto]

I still wait for Cipher to limp in...

 

[Stanford]

Doubt it

I still wait for Cipher to limp in...

Don't hold your breath. This guy is busted. I don't know what took so long.

I have been looking at his web site, and it has scam written all over it. Look at these Cipher threads he just posted of his winning sessions:

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His bets jump from 1 to 90 to 240 to 500. This guy is chasing his money. It is a sort of a negative progression. The typical signature of a negative progression is that you win often but when you crash, you crash big. And he wants $1,000 for this record your hands and increase your bet system.

Anyway, he says all that needs to be said at his website. It's all nonsense.

Stanford.

 

[RobWin]

I still wait for Cipher to limp in...

Cipher doesn't have the balls to come in here !

 

[jenn1381]

WB, first off please accept my sincere condolences about your mom's passing. It truly is one of the most difficult things to go through, and I know this situation isn't helping much.

I have skimmed through all the posts here.. I am shocked at a few things.. first off, do people really pay $1000 for this "system"? Seriously, that money would be better off in your savings account gaining what little interest banks give these days. Also... if it sounds too good to be true... it is. Pretty much always. And no, you can't trust anyone online. You can't trust most people in person let alone online. It is sooooo easy to hide behind the screen. I do hope, however, that it is not as easy to hide behind the law. WB, I would do whatever I could to not only get my $ back but to show his ass that he can't get away with this crap. Like has been said in a previous post, karma is a bitch. I hope he gets his, and good. Don't wait, do it now. this guy obviously isn't going to just surprise you with a check one day. Show him that this shit isn't acceptable.

 

[Westland Bowl]

WB, first off please accept my sincere condolences about your mom's passing. It truly is one of the most difficult things to go through, and I know this situation isn't helping much.

I have skimmed through all the posts here.. I am shocked at a few things.. first off, do people really pay $1000 for this "system"? Seriously, that money would be better off in your savings account gaining what little interest banks give these days. Also... if it sounds too good to be true... it is. Pretty much always. And no, you can't trust anyone online. You can't trust most people in person let alone online. It is sooooo easy to hide behind the screen. I do hope, however, that it is not as easy to hide behind the law. WB, I would do whatever I could to not only get my $ back but to show his ass that he can't get away with this crap. Like has been said in a previous post, karma is a bitch. I hope he gets his, and good. Don't wait, do it now. this guy obviously isn't going to just surprise you with a check one day. Show him that this shit isn't acceptable.

Thanks for your condolences. I do miss my mother very much.

The Cipher software that I used was Bruce's older version which he gave out for free. The $1000 one is the newer Java version and was supposed to come iwith personal instructions/lessons via phone (I guess) from Bruce himself.

Indeed, legal action is in the talks right now. There are various ways to go about this: Postal Service investigation, personal lawyer, Federal Class Action lawsuit, DOJ investigation, etc. Weighing the options in the next couple of days.

 

[Westland Bowl]

These are the words of wit that I received from your brother via email this morning. "QUOTE DAN BELL the brother of TIM BELL aka LIQUID CHIPS, aka WESTLAND BOWL, aka CATMAN DUDE, aka B.J. WIZ: When will you believe we are men of our word?? This is just the beginning and this is my word."

Oh, geez. Cipher now thinks that I'm "B.J. WIZ" over at his forum.

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B.J. WIZ has put some postings up linking to my story that I put up over at Online Players Union. Let me tell you that I'm NOT "B.J. WIZ." That is some other guy who I do not know who independently on his/her own decided to post there.

I can't even log onto cipherblackjack.com anymore under my old handle, Catman_Dude. The site doesn't recognize my email anymore. I don't care to go "undercover" there anyway.

 

[lojo]

I do have a copy of the cashier's check with Bruce Holway's name on it.

But I sent it via Federal Express, instead of the US Postal Mail. Does the Postal law thingy cover private/corporate carriers like FedEx, DHL, etc???

Yip, it would seem so :

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"In 1994, responding to the ever-increasing threat of new schemes, the federal mail fraud statute was amended to cover not only the United States Postal Service (USPS), but private interstate commercial carriers as well (e.g., United Parcel Service, FedEx, DHL)."

I'd sure pay a jawbone for advice, or go to some online law forums and get some paralegals busy doing some probono research.

I just feel for ya, and I pity the fool who goes so deep into their own fantasy that they will take another's money to 'play'.

If this guy was ballin and driving nice cars and all that on your money, well, if it was fraud, he's got it coming. If, as I suspect, he is sitting in front of a screen trying his foolish damnedest to get your money back, and that guys, and that guys, well, I just pity him and hope he gets the help he needs. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy might be it.

Good luck

 

[aodat2]

WB if you truthfully ask me about this, I would not go after Cipher personally. I would most probably round up all the people that he cheated so far and get them all together to get a Class Action against him. That way he will definitely feel the pinch a lot more than you single handedly going after him.

When the Feds get involve in a Class Action, they will go all out to HUNT and GET the person who is doing it. Trust me, it's fun to see the Feds work this way.

If you go single handedly, it might not be as big a problem for him and the court might just order him to pay a small summon and your money back. That's totally NOTHING to him and he'll still keep on doing it later on. But if a Class Action is on him, he's gonna be totally DEAD!!!

 

[lnspin]

Thanks for your condolences. I do miss my mother very much.

The Cipher software that I used was Bruce's older version which he gave out for free. The $1000 one is the newer Java version and was supposed to come iwith personal instructions/lessons via phone (I guess) from Bruce himself.

Indeed, legal action is in the talks right now. There are various ways to go about this: Postal Service investigation, personal lawyer, Federal Class Action lawsuit, DOJ investigation, etc. Weighing the options in the next couple of days.

DOnt forget the mot important one the FBI cyber crimes unit , there the worst and the work the quickest . File a complaint with them and in a few days they will begin investigating him , not only that but they will also call in the irs wich will go thru his records for the past 10 years , and if he even forgot to list $1 in gambling income they going to screw him royally

 

[lojo]

DOnt forget the mot important one the FBI cyber crimes unit , there the worst and the work the quickest . File a complaint with them and in a few days they will begin investigating him , not only that but they will also call in the irs wich will go thru his records for the past 10 years , and if he even forgot to list $1 in gambling income they going to screw him royally

Viscious

Take your time and get some damn good legal advise, it could be a can of worms. They will 'look' at you as well.

 

[RobWin]

Cipher is reading this thread right now, maybe he will say something, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[Slotster!]

Cipher is reading this thread right now, maybe he will say something, but I seriously doubt it.

He'll say how he can't tell us what's going on, because it's a big secret and commercially sensitive and some other smoke and mirrors to essentially avoid the point.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that bizarre offer over on the other site (where he says I'll give you $500 a month or something)... is he on drugs!?! Trying to wrestle control back like that, when you're so very clearly in the wrong, is unbelievable!

Either do the right thing and pay the man, or at least have the decency to go into hiding and spend the rest of your days looking over your shoulder - like every other exposed two-bit crook. Hanging around and trying to somehow still sound legitimate is just rubbing salt in the wounds.

 

[RobWin]

He'll say how he can't tell us what's going on, because it's a big secret and commercially sensitive and some other smoke and mirrors to essentially avoid the point.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that bizarre offer over on the other site (where he says I'll give you $500 a month or something)... is he on drugs!?! Trying to wrestle control back like that, when you're so very clearly in the wrong, is unbelievable!

Either do the right thing and pay the man, or at least have the decency to go into hiding and spend the rest of your days looking over your shoulder - like every other exposed two-bit crook. Hanging around and trying to somehow still sound legitimate is just rubbing salt in the wounds.

PAY DAT MAN HIS MONEY .....you piece of S**T Cipher