Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

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Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I swear I have to use a whip to control him.

I have that problem with men all the time. :D ;)

K, back on topic....sorry, but you put it out there, lol.
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
There's an awful lot of skirting the issue and blowing hot air round and about the actual important bits - mainly on that other board...

Never one to sit on the fence - this, imho, is a definite ploy from someone blatantly (and absurdly) avoiding the point.

Cipher -- do yourself the world of good and answer three very easy, straightforward questions:

1) Why haven't you given this man his money back?
2) Why haven't you given this man his money back?
3) Why haven't you given this man his money back?

Hey Cipher, if you really need the cash - Sunny Group are looking for a payments manager... Sounds like you're ideally qualified.

Idiot.
 

tim5ny

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Call me a silly goose if you'd like, but doesn't the claim that Bodog welcomes people to come in and try out the Cipher system speak volumes about wheather it works or not? I mean if the casino is not worried about it, then how good can it be?
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Call me a silly goose if you'd like, but doesn't the claim that Bodog welcomes people to come in and try out the Cipher system speak volumes about wheather it works or not? I mean if the casino is not worried about it, then how good can it be?

Whether or not Cipher's BJ system works or doesn't work..is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not Cipher accepted 20K from this guy as an investment. If he did, where's the money?

1. The Cipher system doesn't work and there were no profits made off the 20K.

2. The Cipher system does work and Cipher made a killing with the 20K.

3. The initial 20K investment was never used for playing BJ or any other game.

If what WB posted is true, Cipher still has $17,600 of the original amount given to him. Regardless of what it was used for, or whether any money was made off of it, he needs to return this man's money.

It's too easy to get sidetracked with what the money was used for, or if there was a profit made from it. Pretend it was a straight up loan from one person to another. There is a balance owing of $17,600 (at least).

If we have all the relevant facts.
 

soflat

Dormant Account
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
If you give someone money to play blackjack, don't you know for certain there is a chance the player will run into some bad luck and lose it all? Was this really presented by Cipher as a safe investment (can't lose your principal under any circumstances)?

One other thing, where is the text of the emails where you set up the arrangement? You give emails begining where you started trying to collect. Why don't you show the earlier emails?
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Cipher's Offer

This was taken from the Blackjackinfo.com site. Cipher has not denied that he definitely owes WB the sum of $17,600. They've done a good job there of holding him to the facts. He has just posted an offer that he says is good for one hour only.

Posted by Cipher at Blackjackinfo.com

No, there's nothing civil about it ZEN. Tell you what I'm going to be leaving Visalia in about an hour and 10 minutes fo a nice relaxing weekend at the BUICK Invitational.

This is a one time offer good until 3:00 PM Pacific time and it's not negotiable.

I'll agree to pay Liquid Chips (aka Tim Bell) a total of $17,600.00 the sum that is equal to all funds on deposit from the aforementioned Tim Bell with me at the rate of $500.00 (Five Hundred and 00/100's) on the first and fifteenth day of each month until the total sum of $17,600.00 is paid in full to TIM BELL and no others.

You've got an hour.

Cipher


He made that post at 4:58. That's all fine and dandy, but what guarantee is there that he will even stick to it? And at that rate, it will take WB a year and a half to get his money back. Anyone have an opinion?
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I think he's trying to buy time. What's the statute of limitations for something like this? What says he makes a few payments and quits?

Although, the more payments the better..

And on the other hand, I think he just hung himself. He admits fully that he owes the money and wants to make payments. No judge will throw that out of court.


I would get with the admin of the site and get the IP info of who posted it, just to make sure it was cipher.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I think he's trying to buy time. What's the statute of limitations for something like this? What says he makes a few payments and quits?

Although, the more payments the better..

And on the other hand, I think he just hung himself. He admits fully that he owes the money and wants to make payments. No judge will throw that out of court.

I would get with the admin of the site and get the IP info of who posted it, just to make sure it was cipher.

Excellent question Winbig re: the statute of limitations. And excellent points.
 

soflat

Dormant Account
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
Yeah, he admits he owes the money. But he doesn't seem to have it.

Could he have lost lost it playing blackjack?
 

Swede

Hell is only a word
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
May 1, 2006
Location
Anaon
I think he's trying to buy time
Win is correct. If what is read on the forums is true, this is the classic signs of stalling due to incapability of paying.

It's eerily similar to the pyramid schemes in the mid/late 80s(yes I was alive back then, I am that old).

My advice to those who have been monetarily affected by this is to take immediate action. Every days that goes by lessens your chance of getting re-paid or file legal action.

Again, good luck to those affected.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I'm sorry, but if I wasn't sure he was guilty before, I am now. His latest reply to the poster Zengrift was to ridicule him for incorrectly spelling capacity (capicity). This from the guy (who supposedly knows the law) who just the other day used the term "deformation of character" as opposed to defamation. It's like watching someone sink slowly into a pool of quicksand.

WB, I really hope you can recover something out of this but it certainly looks like the majority of posters here are correct...he just doesn't have the money, yours or anyone else's. And you can't get blood from a stone. Let us know what you decide to do.
 

Jtmoney

Non-Gambler
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Location
Atlanta
WestBowl I am truely truely sorry about the passing of your mother. I know the feeling. I lost my father on Oct 28!

DAMN YOU CIPHER. I RESPECTED YOU AND ALOT OF THE OLDER CATS ON HERE! WHAT YOU DID TO THIS MAN WAS DAMN RIGHT WRONG!!! WHO KNOWS YOU MAY HAVE EVEN CAUSED HARD SHIP ON HIS MOTHER AND CAUSE HERE TO WORRY AND GO INTO SHOCK! I AM SO UPSET ABOUT THIS.

Westbowl I hope you've learned a hard costly lesson. And I hope you get your money back one way or another.
 

goatmouth

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Location
USA
Statute of Limitations

I just contacted my lawyer. The statute of limitations for a fraud suit in CA is 1 year from the time the fraud occurs.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I wouldn't be surprised if he does have the money hidden away, but plays it off as if he doesn't.

Westbowl I hope you've learned a hard costly lesson. And I hope you get your money back one way or another.

I like the "or another" part, and I'm sure WB does too ;)
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I just contacted my lawyer. The statute of limitations for a fraud suit in CA is 1 year from the time the fraud occurs.

And I'd bet (poor choice of words I know), that Cipher is also well aware of that fact. So WB agrees to Cipher's arrangement, Cipher makes maybe four payments then defaults again. By this time the statute of limitations has expired. This all started in March 2006 correct? So that would be the date the fraud occurred?
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
And I'd bet (poor choice of words I know), that Cipher is also well aware of that fact. So WB agrees to Cipher's arrangement, Cipher makes maybe four payments then defaults again. By this time the statute of limitations has expired. This all started in March 2006 correct? So that would be the date the fraud occurred?

Yep, so cipher pays $1,000 - $2,000 tops - and says FU for the other $15/16,400
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Yep, so cipher pays $1,000 - $2,000 tops - and says FU for the other $15/16,400

I promised myself I wouldn't do it, but I'm going to post over there. No one has mentioned the statute of limitations, and it's a subject that deserves to be brought up.
 

PNWGirl38

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Location
.
WB... I'm so very sorry to hear of the passing of your Mom.



The person ( Cipher ) in topic here has done a wrong. It's clear he can't even hold true to the "agreement/understanding" you two started out with.

So I think the chances of him holding true to it, yet again... are nil to none.

Mr. Cipher could really be in some hot water, if what is stated to be true. This is a scam, and this scam took place via the net?.. which would it not involve the feds?!

The fact that you have gone to this length of time trying to collect ... and the run around that you have had to endure..... is unacceptable!

It would have been different if Cipher would have came to you and said... "hey look, I don't have the money, can I do payments of some sorts until its paid off."... But, he didn't. He gave you ( and sounds like many others ) the complete run around.

I hate <bleep> scammers!!
 

suzecat

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Location
California
And I'd bet (poor choice of words I know), that Cipher is also well aware of that fact. So WB agrees to Cipher's arrangement, Cipher makes maybe four payments then defaults again. By this time the statute of limitations has expired. This all started in March 2006 correct? So that would be the date the fraud occurred?

Yep, IMHO the way to preserve the possibility of recovery is to file a lawsuit before the statute of limitations runs.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
If any of this business was done over the phone, you could include the FBI in this investigation. Can we say WIRE ACT?!!??

:lolup:

Hell, I'm sure it could be the wire act even if anything wasn't done over the phone....I'm sure there's some wires in them thar toobs sumwhere.

Sad, but true :)

But seriously, using the phone to conduct your scam = federal offense. Same goes for anything that involved the USPS.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
But seriously, using the phone to conduct your scam = federal offense. Same goes for anything that involved the USPS.

You're right about the USPS, and that's the advice that's being given to WB, to contact the Postal Inspector as a starting point.

BTW, Cipher has officially withdrawn his offer. Pity.
 
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