Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[lojo]

He might say; I need help. I f*cked up. Is there anything I can do to make it right? Please, I'm scared. And I can't tell you how sorry I am. I tried, and I really thought I could do it. But I was wrong. It just got out of hand. I didn't mean to hurt anybody.

But he doesn't seem to be saying anything here.

Here's what I would do. I would make a sincere apology after much soul-searching. In that apology would be a plan to make up for any and all harm I had caused, A promise to myself to never go down that road again, and a quantifyable system of accountability; monitored by the people I had burned.

If this is what it looks like, he would be so lucky to have a judge give him that deal.

Get a lawyer dude, and I hope he is a true friend. Don't try flying some 12 step program in front of a federal judge, they know better. Do the right thing whatever that is. You seem to have incredible talents but you got in over your head. Don't go topping yourself over money, and don't go to the 'darkside' to try to make it right.

I feel for ya. Hope you make it right.

 

[GrandMaster]

I just contacted my lawyer. The statute of limitations for a fraud suit in CA is 1 year from the time the fraud occurs.

At what time is the fraud deemed to take place? The time limit for suing for debt is almost certainly different from the criminal statute of limitations.

DOnt forget the mot important one the FBI cyber crimes unit , there the worst and the work the quickest . File a complaint with them and in a few days they will begin investigating him , not only that but they will also call in the irs wich will go thru his records for the past 10 years , and if he even forgot to list $1 in gambling income they going to screw him royally

Westland Bowl, You need to get in touch with the District Attorney as soon as possible and have him persue the charges of:

1. Theft By Deception

and

2. Theft By Conversion......(before the statue of limitations runs out)


These are two major charges that are Felonies in the US with lots of jail time if convicted.

If you can convince the DA to persue this case it should be your best hope of recovering your money or at least some of it if Cipher is convicted.

Most likely he would plead "Nolo contendere" and the jail time sentence would be suspended by the Judge and Cipher would be placed on Probation until he had fully paid back all monies awared in your case.

Also if you can get Three people together that have been scammed and wronged by his actions you can then file a Class Action Law Suit which is a Federal case.

Hope this helps and Good Luck...

The first priority should be the recovery of the debt, which is a civil matter. Criminal charges should be secondary. My recommendation is to talk to an attorney who could advise on the best way to proceed, rather than take legal advice from unqualified people here. I would also make print-outs and take screenshots of Cipher's websites, relevant message board posts, just in case they may be useful as evidence. Again, the attorney should be able to advise how to make them most reliable and admissible in court.

Westland Bowl, I meant to ask you and forgot. The original sum in question is 20K. Cipher did give you $2,400 in March. Would you be satisfied in receiving the remaining $17,600 back, maybe even in installments? Or are you looking for the figure of 81K, that you have calculated as the amount due, according to the original "agreement"?

My gut feeling is that it would be hard to recover anything above the original amount and possible some interest at a reasonable rate, but this is best left for a lawyer to decide.

 

[cipher]

My thoughts on this:

I've always been a believer in the adage that "There are always two sides to every story"...

That said... I would hope that Cipher responds to these allegations... but until he does so... the aggrieved person making these accusations (Tim) has presented a very compelling and believable posting of his dealings with Cipher. Since other "investors" are similarly involved with this... I would hope that some of them come forward and detail their experiences with Cipher also.

Well said mrracetrack, there are indeed.


It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count. All further comments will be made on the cipher website at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of
mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.

At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.

 

[aodat2]

Well said mrracetrack, there are indeed.


It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count. All further comments will be made on the cipher website at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of
mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.

At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.

I don't really care what clients or something that you have in the east/west/north or even south coast. It has nothing to do with the fact that you took this fella's money and you not wanting to return it to him.

If you dare to come over to talk, then answer us all the questions that we have.

1. Did you take his money?
2. Did you promise him a return of 15%?
3. Where is the money that is due to him?
4. Where is his money entirely?
5. Why have you not honored his request to get back his money?
6. Why are you always trying to avoid questions from him?

Answer us all the above questions and we'll see your side of the story. If you are telling us that you're so noble and etc, then please do tell us that what WB said are all lies and thus proving it too.

The only person who is going to pay is yourself if you actually do not answer those questions.

 

[Westland Bowl]

I've just now posted a reply to Cipher's same post he put up on OPU. Cipher's moved his theater of tragedy from BlackjackInfo over to OPU starting on page two of "Scammers in our midst?" thread:

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Just so that everyone's straight, I am:
Westland Bowl at Casinomeister,
Liquid Chips at BlackjackInfo.com
Catman Dude =^-.-^= at Online Players Union (OPU)
Tomcat at Winner Online (WOL)

Well said mrracetrack, there are indeed.

It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count. All further comments will be made on the cipher website at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of
mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.

At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.

 

[Stanford]

There are not always two sides

Cipher claims there must be two sides and quotes Mr. Race Track. Then he goes on to prove there isn't two sides. He doesn't say how he will pay back the person he scammed and he continues to market a worthless system with false claims. He continues to prey on desparate and uninformed people.

I am not sure we should wait for the victom to act. I am not so sure that we should not solicit mutliple complaints to the FBI from all concerned members of the gaming community.

This Cipher guy is a real piece of ..... work.

Stanford.

 

[mitch]

It's too bad nobody ever tried to expose Cipher as a system scammer. It's too bad nobody ever made posts on an internet online gambling related messageboard summarizing Cipher's ludicrous claims related to online BJ, trying to show people that he's obviously a fraud.

<sigh>

I thought I would return to the Forum for a while just to add to the debate on this issue.

If you look through my previous posts you will see that I challenged Cipher many times about his so called 'strands'. I said then and I repeat now, he is a snakeoil salesman.

You will not get a straight answer from him because he is a con man.

Don't bother asking about his 'system' or anything else just try and get him to answer the one question which exposes him as a total BSer. If you had only asked yourself this question you probably would not be in this situation now.

If he has a sucessful system why would he ask for other peoples money? He is a mega multi miilionaire after all, as I would be if I could generate even a 1% advantage over the casinos.

He won't answer this question because he can't!

Westland Bowl, I am afraid you have little chance of seeing any of your money again. If Cipher was a straightforward con artist he might have some money hidden somewhere but we know he has been gambling and quite often at high stakes. You have just been feeding his gambling addiction and his ego. Your money now is with the casino owners!

It may have been that at one time Cipher actually believed his 'strands' worked. He was running an obvious negative progression system which normally means lots of winning sessions followed by the inevitable catastrophic session where it all goes. Cipher I am sure has no illusions by now about his 'system', he will have suffered this pattern many times now. Perhaps he is still deluding himself that the casinos have cheated during these bad sessions by 'pulling a switch' on him, he used to refer to this.

So what should you do? Unfortunately I have no indepth knowledge of American law.
You should certainly see a lawyer and it would be in your best interests if you could make contact with as many of Ciphers other 'clients' to check out their experiences with Cipher. (probably not good)

If you can get any money from him, (doubtful!) no matter how small, take it but with the proviso that you make it clear that you are accepting without prejudice to any further action.

Whatever you do, and I understand the frustration and temptation, do not make any threats of violence, this would play into Cipher's hands.

You have at least got the satisfaction of having exposed Cipher for what he is and may have prevented some other poor souls losing their money in this fashion.

However, continuing to conduct the debate over the net is probably not a good idea either if you intend to follow up with legal action.

Good luck with this affair. (unfortunately I think you are going to need it)

Mitch

 

[Stanford]

Well done

I thought I would return to the Forum for a while just to add to the debate on this issue.

If you look through my previous posts you will see that I challenged Cipher many times about his so called 'strands'. I said then and I repeat now, he is a snakeoil salesman.


....He was running an obvious negative progression system which normally means lots of winning sessions followed by the inevitable catastrophic session where it all goes.....

Mitch,

Good on you. I should have said the same. I just never took Cipher seriously and didn't realize till recently that he was scamming anyone but himself. Thanks for speaking out early on.

Stanford.

 

[mgibson99]

......If your claim is legitimate......you had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge......

This post reminds me of some of the crime shows I like to watch (Law and Order, CSI, etc). You know the ones I'm talking about.....everyone knows the suspect is guilty, and the suspect doesn't deny anything, but he just looks at the cops straight in the eye and with a sarcastic smile says "PROVE IT".

The good news for WB is that the cops in these shows almost always do "prove it".

 

[jerrylee]

If your claim is real, just tell us one thing. Why would you post:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Cipher, I don't care anymore whether I get the money from you or not, I don't care whether I win a case against you or not, I don't care how much it costs me, I'm pursuing all avenues I can possibly find to bring legal and governmental attention to your theft of my and others' money. So long, Cipher. The curtain as been torn off and burned.

It's as if your main purpose is to defame him and you're not interested in the money...hmmm? Well posting in several forums, you've met your objective on that one.

 

[Westland Bowl]

You have at least got the satisfaction of having exposed Cipher for what he is and may have prevented some other poor souls losing their money in this fashion.

Now THAT is exactly what this is all about. When I posted the first post in this thread, I knew the possibility that I would get the money back was virtually nil. But that wasn't my reason for posting but rather, just as you said, to expose Cipher and prevent further people from giving him money for "investing."

However, continuing to conduct the debate over the net is probably not a good idea either if you intend to follow up with legal action.

As I posted over in OPU, I'm done with trying to reason with Cipher. He calls it "lame talk"....well, it was really "I'm trying to save your ass" talk before I continue on with the legal action.

Good luck with this affair. (unfortunately I think you are going to need it) Mitch

Good luck or bad luck, let it come. Thanks.

 

[jerrylee]

Also interesting...has anyone noticed... Bryan, CM has not elected to comment in this thread, perhaps not wishing to get entangled?

 

[Stanford]

Defame?

If your claim is real, just tell us one thing. Why would you post:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It's as if your main purpose is to defame him and you're not interested in the money...hmmm? Well posting in several forums, you've met your objective on that one.

I think you see some bluster born of frustration. The man got conned out of 20 grand.

And you can't "defame" Cipher. He is what he is - a crook, a scam artist, a snake oil salesman. He finds desperate people and preys on them. He depends on their shame to keep his secret much as a pedophile depends on the shame of his victims not to talk to the authorities.

We should thank Westland for pulling back the curtain. Maybe it will help others in our community. Don't you think that is a good thing?

Stanford.

 

[Stanford]

Do you have a point?

Also interesting...has anyone noticed... Bryan, CM has not elected to comment in this thread, perhaps not wishing to get entangled?

I noticed. And I spoke to it. This isn't a casino issue. This isn't about being a casino watchdog. If you go to forums run by gaming experts you will find they do speak out about it. People that understand odds and expectation here have spoke out about it.

Bryan is a great watchdog. He isn't Michael Shackleford. If I want to know about betting systems I will go to the Wizard of Odds. If I want help with a rogue casino, I am calling on the Casinomeister.

Speaking of the Wizard, don't you know that Michael just turns over in his website every time Cipher and "Wizard" (as in Wizard of Blackjack) are mentioned in the same sentence.

Stanford.

 

[Westland Bowl]

If your claim is real, just tell us one thing. Why would you post:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It's as if your main purpose is to defame him and you're not interested in the money...hmmm? Well posting in several forums, you've met your objective on that one.

Of course, I do want the money back. But there has been a number of people who think that it is unlikely that I'll get the money from him, court case or not. Some people think that email isn't allowable in court, some do. So being pulled back and forth as to whether I got a case or not, I just decided "heck, whatever, I don't care, I'm just going forth with legal action and find out if I do or not." So I had to prepare myself for the possibility that I didn't have a case. I just have to "let it be" whatever the outcome is. Maybe it's a wrong choice of words.

My original post only relates MY experience with dealing with Cipher. There is nothing baseless that I've posted that I can't prove with documentation and correspondence though it's email. As long as I stick to the facts, it's not defamation per legal counsel.

 

[PNWGirl38]

Also interesting...has anyone noticed... Bryan, CM has not elected to comment in this thread, perhaps not wishing to get entangled?

I do know there were meetings of this past week pertaining to the gaming industry

Many people travel to this convention?!

So, maybe since someone hasn't posted or responded to this matter, may not mean a thing.

Please don't make the water anymore muddier.

 

[cipher]

NOTICE: It has come to my attention that one DAMIAN DUNLAP has (on the behalf of one TIM BELL) chosen to post a video on his site (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) with regards issues to a dispute between CIPHER and TIM BELL.

1) You (TIM BELL) are hereby made aware of the existence of such video.

2) The continued display of the aforementioned video shall serve as evidence of your knowledge of said video.

3) You will thereby be considered as a co-conspirator in those same acts of Damian Dunlap with regards the display of said video.

No further warning will be given.

Cipher

 

[Pinababy69]

Cipher, I have only one question for you. You took 20K of this man's money, and thus far have returned only $2,400 of it. You owe him $17,600. When do you plan on paying him?

Everything else, and I mean everything, is irrelevant. It doesn't matter that he was promised 15% (unless and until he gets you into a court of law). It doesn't matter what the money was used for (unless it was to scam other people WITH WB's prior knowledge). And WB, while it's sad, it makes no difference that your mother passed while this was going on. I don't mean to sound harsh, but the only thing that really matters is that he took your money and hasn't repaid it. Period.

And Cipher, as to Mrracetrack, he's not here to speak for himself...so in the interim I'm going to speak for him. He and I have spoken at length about this, and if you're looking for any sympathy or support from him, you can lose that delusion. Beyond that, I'll leave it to him to reply. I just didn't want you thinking you may have ANYONE who thinks you're "innocent".

You are busted Cipher, and all the gobbledygook talk in the world isn't going to change that. You've admitted that you owe him the money, so pay him (full return of principal). Stop with the analogies, and the sidestepping and the deliberate avoidance of the real issue. Put up or shut up.

 

[lnspin]

Cipher why dont you just save everyone a headache and jump off of your roof

 

[Pinababy69]

NOTICE: It has come to my attention that one DAMIAN DUNLAP has (on the behalf of one TIM BELL) chosen to post a video on his site (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) with regards issues to a dispute between CIPHER and TIM BELL.

1) You (TIM BELL) are hereby made aware of the existence of such video.

2) The continued display of the aforementioned video shall serve as evidence of your knowledge of said video.

3) You will thereby be considered as a co-conspirator in those same acts of Damian Dunlap with regards the display of said video.

No further warning will be given.

Cipher

Unless Tim Bell's name is on the WHOIS registration of the OPU, you're "warning" the wrong person Cipher. Why don't you go on over and threaten Damian with lawyers, you both seem to be good at that.

Cipher, without having seen what you say is "your side of the story", what we all see here is someone without a leg to stand on, legal or otherwise. To quote Monty Python, "it's only a flesh wound, I'll be fine". Ha ha.....doubt that very much.

 

[Jtmoney]

Cipher you wouldn't pulled that $hit on me and lived in the USA.

 

[Pinababy69]

You know Cipher, I'm seriously considering putting together a webpage dedicated to you. This has pissed me off that much. I'd want to see the original documents from WB prior to that, but I'm thinking about it. And about getting an SEO specialist to make sure the page rankings are as high as I can get them. So anytime that anyone types in Cipher or Wizard of Blackjack or blackjack system (you get the idea), my page will be right there.

And I DARE you to threaten me with your lawyers. Keep on posting your bullshit non-excuses, and I'll do it. May take me a bit, but I will do it. I'm tenacious if nothing else and you should know that.

 

[cipher]

Cipher you wouldn't pulled that $hit on me and lived in the USA.

Well, then I guess you could always crawl out from behind that alias of yours. Right now it's Does (1-100) but that can always be increased.

Cipher

 

[cipher]

You know Cipher, I'm seriously considering putting together a webpage dedicated to you. This has pissed me off that much. I'd want to see the original documents from WB prior to that, but I'm thinking about it. And about getting an SEO specialist to make sure the page rankings are as high as I can get them. So anytime that anyone types in Cipher or Wizard of Blackjack or blackjack system (you get the idea), my page will be right there.

And I DARE you to threaten me with your lawyers. Keep on posting your bullshit non-excuses, and I'll do it. May take me a bit, but I will do it. I'm tenacious if nothing else and you should know that.

QUOTE: "I'd want to see the original documents from WB prior to that." That might be a bad idea.

Cipher

 

[Jtmoney]

CIPHER, YOU BROKE SON OF A $ITCH!