Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

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Random#rs

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You're misunderstanding my post. If the state max (in a civil suit) is $5k where he's at, that's the only thing he'll get back, not a penny more.

This is true in small claims court. You may may remember OJ Simpson was found liable for two murders in Civil court for some 35 million.

We should NOT use this forum as a tribunal, nor make a witch hunt.I know that Westland has NOT the intention to something like that, but the thread can get momentum that is hardly to control.

This is debatable (Cipher used the forums for his purpose). I believe it is appropriate for public exposure here and in the other Forums. Further more, I would ask Cipher to get his butt out here and show his side. I would warn him not to try and run us (the world, the user base of this board, etc.) around in gobly-gook explanations like he did with WB for months.
 

Pinababy69

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Could someone point me in the direction of Cipher's website/forum? Afraid to say that I am NOT a blackjack player. But I would like to educate myself a bit more on what exactly he's offering to people. Thanks.
 

Westland Bowl

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Could someone point me in the direction of Cipher's website/forum? Afraid to say that I am NOT a blackjack player. But I would like to educate myself a bit more on what exactly he's offering to people. Thanks.

Cipher has changed his websites to where the Gambling Edge and Cipher Blackjack websites seemed to have merged somewhat. You will have to use the Wayback Machine to read what he had on Cipherblackjack.com in the past.

BTW, Pinababy69 hit the nail on the head when she pm'd me a couple of days ago saying she suspected that it was Cipher I was alluding to in the thread "Big Story of the Year?".
 

Westland Bowl

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Will she receive a prize?? :D

Uh, well, I'm waiting for a certain withdrawal to be processed from this Neteller account but I'm blocked from withdrawing really until I can contact this individual to lift the hold on the account. I'll get in touch with you, say, on January 19th? :D
 

vinylweatherman

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Reference

I have looked at one of the reference threads over at blackjackinfo, and one of Cipher's "investment organisers" has defended Cipher with the following:-

"I am from Visalia (Cipher's current town of residence). I have watched him play sessions both from my home computer and in his lab."

Thanks, now what part of the UK is Visalia please?

Westland Bowl has a contract where play will "originate from the UK".

Cipher and his organiser are responding to the allegations over at Blackjack info. Whatever is going on is really odd. How on earth can Cipher deliver on the promises while at the same time staying within the T & C of the casinos being milked AND not have someone notice how he was "winning far more than statistics would imply were reasonable" - the same reason the 3 Card Poker scammers were busted at the B & M casino recently in London.
 

Pinababy69

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Uh, well, I'm waiting for a certain withdrawal to be processed from this Neteller account but I'm blocked from withdrawing really until I can contact this individual to lift the hold on the account. I'll get in touch with you, say, on January 19th? :D

:lolup:

Keep your chin up WB, and don't lose the sense of humour. It will keep you going through those times when you wanna kick yourself in the ass all over again. :)
 

soflat

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Cipher and his organiser are responding to the allegations over at Blackjack info. Whatever is going on is really odd. How on earth can Cipher deliver on the promises while at the same time staying within the T & C of the casinos being milked AND not have someone notice how he was "winning far more than statistics would imply were reasonable" - the same reason the 3 Card Poker scammers were busted at the B & M casino recently in London.

I won't comment about Cipher or this situation directly.

But, the general rule 'any publicity is good publicity' holds for scams, ponzi schemes, etc.

Everyone can bash the culprit over the head in forums, and denounce the actions, point out how it is a scam, etc. But so long as the culprit still has an audience he can still acquire new clients. That is the nature and it is human nature. Someone will inevitably read all the denouncements, and still get lured in. They'll get curious from reading of the great new system for beating casinos and it all looks convincing even when everybody's pointing out that it is not real.

That is why I hope the accused does not show up and start a dialogue here.
 

onemoorebaby

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I'm sorry this happened to you .

From reading his posts on the cipher warning thread at blackjackinfo.com he sounds like one big ass!!! :mad:

I believe he will get whats coming to him its the way life works. Better days will be ahead for you WB.
 

winbig

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Whats nice is this will be listed in google for people that search for "cipher" and "blackjack". It's also nice that this thread has 0 chance of being deleted/edited by the mods.
 

Pinababy69

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Westland Bowl, I meant to ask you and forgot. The original sum in question is 20K. Cipher did give you $2,400 in March. Would you be satisfied in receiving the remaining $17,600 back, maybe even in installments? Or are you looking for the figure of 81K, that you have calculated as the amount due, according to the original "agreement"?
 

aodat2

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Westland Bowl, I meant to ask you and forgot. The original sum in question is 20K. Cipher did give you $2,400 in March. Would you be satisfied in receiving the remaining $17,600 back, maybe even in installments? Or are you looking for the figure of 81K, that you have calculated as the amount due, according to the original "agreement"?
I can't answer for Westland Bowl but if I was him/her, I would be totally happy if I could even get $15,000 back and be done with it and having Cipher get in trouble somehow.

If there's a chance of getting the total $81k back, then all the better. But if not, the max would make me happy too. I'm sure WB would be in the same position as what I mentioned.
 

Westland Bowl

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Westland Bowl, I meant to ask you and forgot. The original sum in question is 20K. Cipher did give you $2,400 in March. Would you be satisfied in receiving the remaining $17,600 back, maybe even in installments? Or are you looking for the figure of 81K, that you have calculated as the amount due, according to the original "agreement"?

If Cipher threatens lawsuit, yeah, according to the original agreement, he owes me $80,911 at the end of January. But me and my brother was willing to let him pay us back the $17,600 and it will be all over with. He just wouldn't agree to paying even $5,000.
 

Pinababy69

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I was just looking over his site, and noticed how he tells people to "test drive" his program at Bodog. I don't know how Bodog feels about that, but if this story pans out to be true, they may want to rethink being associated in any way with Cipher or his website or his "program".

WB, I just read Cipher's response at Blackjackinfo.com. I see that he did not give any sort of reply or denial of what you've stated. He did allude to the fact that you and your brother and/or other family have threatened him with the Secret Service, FBI, etc. Is there any truth to that? And please be honest. If you were fed up and trying to intimidate him (even if they were empty threats), I can understand. But he's implying that there were more emails than what you've posted, and some that maybe don't show you acting in a professional vein. I'm not condemning you, but it's better you give us ALL the facts upfront, rather than letting them trickle out. That only makes you look dishonest, or like you're hiding something. If you got frustrated and made some "stupid" statements, totally understandable.

And Cipher, I have one question for you. Did you accept 20K from this man, and pay him only $2,400 so far? Forget the 15%, do you still have $17,600 of his money? Yes or no.
 

Westland Bowl

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WB, I just read Cipher's response at Blackjackinfo.com. I see that he did not give any sort of reply or denial of what you've stated. He did allude to the fact that you and your brother and/or other family have threatened him with the Secret Service, FBI, etc. Is there any truth to that? And please be honest. If you were fed up and trying to intimidate him (even if they were empty threats), I can understand. But he's implying that there were more emails than what you've posted, and some that maybe don't show you acting in a professional vein. I'm not condemning you, but it's better you give us ALL the facts upfront, rather than letting them trickle out. That only makes you look dishonest, or like you're hiding something. If you got frustrated and made some "stupid" statements, totally understandable.

My brother has sent emails to Cipher on his own so I did not quote them in the Wiz of BJ posting but I did say that he emailed Cipher. He did not threatened to sic our Secret Service relatives on him but wanted Cipher to know we have some relatives with some expertise in getting information. But my brother does have his own way of writing...much like he liked to tease cats and dogs to snarls and hisses.

I also didn't include Cipher's emails to my brother, saying that he sent to the local US District Attorney our emails (1 of his and two of mine- which were the last two listed in the Wiz of BJ post). That didn't happen- we've gotten NO calls from any district attorney. He said that the poster bilgplaya was in a lot of legal hot water. That wasn't true- Cipher's done nothing to take bilgplaya's friends to court. Soooo...yeah, there were some behind the scenes emails between my brother and Cipher but I wanted to keep the focus on the facts between me and Cipher.
 

Pinababy69

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Fair enough WB, thanks for the clarification. These things can be hard to follow. And no, you can't control your brother. But I would try and tell him to remain professional and not to lose his cool. From what you've posted, you seem to have done a good job of that so far.

It looks like Brutus has at least gotten him to admit publicly that he did indeed take your money, and at a promised 15% rate of return. He says that the agreement however had nothing to do with blackjack. I'm not entirely sure that I care what it had to do with (unless it was being used to scam other people with your knowledge). Whether it was being used to play BJ or a game of tiddlywinks in a back alley, he took your money, and obviously still has it.

I guess we'll have to wait two days, and then all will be revealed (Cipher's version).
 

unicorn40

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I really do hope you get back the $17,600 at least, though it looks like Cipher doesn't have it to cough up. I'm really sorry this happened to you and it just goes to show how careful you need to be esp. online. He sure did use one excuse after another...or i guess the same one over sort of. I am very sorry to hear about your Mother also...
 

soflat

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Now I'm confused. What was Cipher supposed to do with the $20,000? Play blackjack?

On the other forum, it seems like you are still under the belief that the system works. Do you?
 

chuchu59

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At the other forum Cipher seems to have been so rattled that he has omitted his famous quote. Well, he visited this site just yesterday but has chosen not to respond. I hope he does so that we can get the whole picture otherwise silence will be all the more deafening.
 

Swede

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Without taking sides, and I choose to do so for reasons that are my own, I'd like to ask a few general q's:

1) If there is a documented(email exchange) agreement between A and B stating the expected profit will be X and B(seller) confirms that, how does A not have a legitimate claim?

2) If it is decided that A has a legitimate claim, can B's online and personal asetts be frozen or even confiscated awaiting investigation?

3) What is with the sum of $5000? Is that the maximum amount that can be disputed in a court of law?

Just asking this out of curiosity and comparing outlandish legislations to ours.

GL to those who have been wronged is this matter.

Swede
 

Random#rs

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Oh there's no substance to what he's saying so far at all. All it is, is a steaming heap of parrot droppings; otherwise known as 'mud slinging'. He is using anything other than the direct matter with WB to justify his attitude, his transparent outrage, ... ie. his brother, or aka:Richard, or his mother didn't know etc. all an excuse for his actions. What a bunch of baloney!

Some Casinos are going to be interested in this. Bodog? you bet. And more. Come over here Cipher, where your audience is maximized, especially with Casinos.

Off topic a little: my brother is a bulldog too, and he'll do things I can't control when it comes to vindication for family. I swear I have to use a whip to control him.
 

suzecat

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Catman.....true to my nature, I have been unsympathetic/harsh with you.....for which I apologize. Your story reminded me of many times I was suckered by similar cons and how I had kept hoping that it was going to work out. Pina hit the nail on the head with her post above. Once you let the reality of the situation sink in it is difficult to control your anger, first at the con and then at yourself. When it happened to me, I felt like a real putz. It has not happened in a long time and will not happen again. Of course the payoff is this skeptical, unsympathetic harsh nature. You will do better; enjoy the hell out of your kitties and listen to the small voice of your Mother telling you to smile and be happy. Karma is alive and well and a powerful thing that levels all uneven fields. Maybe it will help to know that you have a lot of people whose positive thoughts encircle and protect you.
 
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