Casumo offering payments via mobile contract bill

[CraiGDaniel]

Just seen casumo are now letting players deposit via boku.com which charges your mobile phone contract.

From what i can see they only support O2 in the UK atm for payment.

I feel this is very dangerous for players and should never be allowed by any responsible operator.

What are thoughts?

 

[Jono777]

I did a HUGE post on this a few months back.

Agreed it is a DEADLY option and throws Responsible Gambling out of the window, would love to hear the UKGC's thought's on this one.

I have a friend who a few years back ran up 2K worth of debt with Vodafone via this method (different casino) - I also fell party to the mobile bill deposit 'trap' after a few beers the once and ran up an extra £200 on my bill (never again and was a one off! - Also a very long time back)

Its just TOO easy, at least if Bank is empty or Skrill accounts etc or you have to physically go and buy a pre-pay voucher, then there is some form of effort/motivation required and a degree of control.

With simply being able to say 'Yeah, give £50 to blow and stick it on my mobile bill' its so, so dangerous, more so for those who sit on the edge of 'Am I actually in control or not'

Surprising read for a casino with the good stature Casumo has, previous experience dictates that this sort of deposit method was usually found at 'lesser established' brands (for want of a better phrase)

 

[Tengil]

Well basically all casinos offer credit card deposits. No big difference as both allows you to gamble on debt.

 

[goatwack]

Terrible idea and totally unethical. Just because they can, doesn't mean they have to. It's only going to end in one way and that's to get gamblers into more debt.

And what better way than to just stick it on the phone bill!

Just another means of credit, and that is like mana from heaven to gamblers. Easy to attain, very hard to pay off no doubt. The only sure way of controlling this 'method' is to cap it at something small, say max £20. Anything else is just baiting and irresponsible.

Give it another couple of years and companies will devise ways to sub people part of their wages, each with their own BACS code. "Sorry honey, I thought I had £2000 this month, but the casino took £500 of that because I got carried away on Starburst!"

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well basically all casinos offer credit card deposits. No big difference as both allows you to gamble on debt.

This is the problem, both methods let you gamble away money you don't have. The casino gets paid, but it's the credit card company or the mobile company that is taking the risk of handing over the money and then being stuck with a bad debt because the subscriber has gone "on tilt" and can't pay the bill at the end of the month.

There have already been a number of high profile cases where people have run up ridiculous and unpayable phone bills due to roaming and in-app purchases. They haven't necessarily lost their own money either, because if they genuinely can't pay, the mobile phone provider is saddled with an unrecoverable debt.

Another big issue with contract phones is that they are easy to steal, and the thief is being presented with an opportunity to make actual hard cash rather than silly in-app virtual goods by using the stolen phone to deposit into a casino where they may well have hatched a scheme to move that money to another player account via some kind of "head to head" play, similar to "chip dumping" in poker.

 

[CraiGDaniel]

Well basically all casinos offer credit card deposits. No big difference as both allows you to gamble on debt.

I'm not shocked about the method but more so that Casumo are offering it.

I have always considered this a way of preying on people who cannot afford it and who are on tilt.

Put in your phone number and have £200 loaded up, worry about it next month.

I cannot obtain a credit card due to my credit score, but i can get a phone contract.

Not ethical. Not expected from a place like Casumo.

 

[spintee]

;Like Jm stated there has already ben a thread or two about this,

I put my feelings across than, Its a dander game, OK its convince at best, So much for responsible gaming, I do not agree with this and advise nobody to use this method, its worse than a credit card, as it will come back to you, only thing thing is, courts will not allow a high court rit for this behaviour, but you will get a bad credit rating

 

[Harry_BKK]

It is very common for UK casinos to offer this.

Take the Progress Play Group with some 20 or so skins. The max. deposit/day is capped at £30, hence not really that dangerous.

And if you think it is, then set a max. limit / month with your phone provider, no problem.

Other deposit methods are far more 'dangerous' for the 'weak', e.g. credit cards which usually have a few K limit. Max it out and then try to repay the debt on minimum monthly payments. It never clears as the interest is so high. I remember when i lived in the UK the range was up to 30% interest on credit card debt, now that is outrageous, despicable and totally unethical.

 

[spoton]

Well basically all casinos offer credit card deposits. No big difference as both allows you to gamble on debt.

Can they differentiate credit card deposits from debit card deposit? At least here both MC and Visa offer both debit cards and credit cards. However if they can differentiate the cards, it's no better than offering pay-by-phone and it should IMO not be allowed.

 

[sapit222]

Its very bad of Casumo to offer such a method!

I got in dept a long time ago couse of too easy to get credit.

 

[Simmo!]

I've always thought it odd that gambling regulations don't cover "borrowing" money (ie: credit cards) to gamble. Surely a sensibly thought-out regime would put controls in place to ensure the gambler has the funds he/she is gambling with?

 

[dunover]

They've got a new one soon, direct from BA (The UK Benefits Agency). Sign-up for the 'BA Direct' scheme and you can get up to 90% of the next month's benefits due to gamble with. The limit on pensioners though is 50% for some reason.

The plan for 'Workplace Wagers' payment system is nearly complete, if you sign up to it up to 75% of your wages due can be paid direct to the casino from your employer, a guaranteed bonus each time!

I'm note sure though about the third scheme I heard about; it's a little far-fetched to me. The 'Casino Pawn' group have bought out Cash Converters and players can deposit their TV's and phones and jewellery in their stores for up to 50% of their value in casino credits. Laptops and PC's/tablets won't be accepted though funnily enough. If they win they can cash out all the balance or 'Redeem Pawned Item(s)' from their list in the casino interface and cash-out the difference, the items being ready for them collect without fee the next working day.

 

[Jono777]

Helped me over tonight's disaster of a deposit, cheers

 

[goatwack]

They've got a new one soon, direct from BA (The UK Benefits Agency). Sign-up for the 'BA Direct' scheme and you can get up to 90% of the next month's benefits due to gamble with. The limit on pensioners though is 50% for some reason.

The plan for 'Workplace Wagers' payment system is nearly complete, if you sign up to it up to 75% of your wages due can be paid direct to the casino from your employer, a guaranteed bonus each time!

I'm note sure though about the third scheme I heard about; it's a little far-fetched to me. The 'Casino Pawn' group have bought out Cash Converters and players can deposit their TV's and phones and jewellery in their stores for up to 50% of their value in casino credits. Laptops and PC's/tablets won't be accepted though funnily enough. If they win they can cash out all the balance or 'Redeem Pawned Item(s)' from their list in the casino interface and cash-out the difference, the items being ready for them collect without fee the next working day.

An added BA Direct perk is that you can, in fact, get the whole 100% redeemed if you can prove that any member of your family watches Jeremy Kyle, and for free spin offers, Big Brother

 

[Nicola]

Not surprised at casinos starting to push this option. £30 daily limit, small as it may be, builds up quickly if you do it daily. Even weekly is £120 on top of your usual phone bill which averages £46 a month in the UK.

 

[Jono777]

An added BA Direct perk is that you can, in fact, get the whole 100% redeemed if you can prove that any member of your family watches Jeremy Kyle, and for free spin offers, Big Brother

I hear certain SUB's include a delivery to your door of a very special parcel too....

- A bar of soap
- A Can of Lynx 'Africa'
- A Tracksuit which is a couple of sizes too small
- A Bag of Skunk
- 4 Stella
- A years Sky TV subscription

Now I'm scratching my head, 'Benefit Street' worked well, anyone wanna go halves on setting up 'Dole Dossers Casino', might work

 

[goatwack]

I hear certain SUB's include a delivery to your door of a very special parcel too....

- A bar of soap
- A Can of Lynx 'Africa'
- A Tracksuit which is a couple of sizes too small
- A Bag of Skunk
- 4 Stella
- A years Sky TV subscription

Now I'm scratching my head, 'Benefit Street' worked well, anyone wanna go halves on setting up 'Dole Dossers Casino', might work

Good idea. As a special welcome bonus, all single mums with three kids or more will get 100 Starburst spins per kid, with an additional 50 spins if they're by different fathers.

We won't actually pay these people though, should they dare to attempt a withdrawal. Far better, for them and society as a whole, to just remove their ASBOs as a 'cashout'. Same difference

 

[Jono777]

My efforts are weak in comparison, hilarious :notworthy

 

[spintee]

It is very common for UK casinos to offer this.

Take the Progress Play Group with some 20 or so skins. The max. deposit/day is capped at £30, hence not really that dangerous.

And if you think it is, then set a max. limit / month with your phone provider, no problem.

Other deposit methods are far more 'dangerous' for the 'weak', e.g. credit cards which usually have a few K limit. Max it out and then try to repay the debt on minimum monthly payments. It never clears as the interest is so high. I remember when i lived in the UK the range was up to 30% interest on credit card debt, now that is outrageous, despicable and totally unethical.

You have to look at the bigger picture, I have also seen alot of casino offer this including the them nektan sites an an old fave spingenie, Yes there is caps but alot of people have mort than one contract, I have 2, One for me and one for my mum, So if it is 30 max depo than that is soon doubled too 60 with two phones,

Do you really think they will limit the deposit to the only number stored in your account? I doubt it

They've got a new one soon, direct from BA (The UK Benefits Agency). Sign-up for the 'BA Direct' scheme and you can get up to 90% of the next month's benefits due to gamble with. The limit on pensioners though is 50% for some reason.

The plan for 'Workplace Wagers' payment system is nearly complete, if you sign up to it up to 75% of your wages due can be paid direct to the casino from your employer, a guaranteed bonus each time!

I'm note sure though about the third scheme I heard about; it's a little far-fetched to me. The 'Casino Pawn' group have bought out Cash Converters and players can deposit their TV's and phones and jewellery in their stores for up to 50% of their value in casino credits. Laptops and PC's/tablets won't be accepted though funnily enough. If they win they can cash out all the balance or 'Redeem Pawned Item(s)' from their list in the casino interface and cash-out the difference, the items being ready for them collect without fee the next working day.

Trust you to think of this shit

Ohhh, your wrote the T&C for them

 

[spintee]

Not surprised at casinos starting to push this option. £30 daily limit, small as it may be, builds up quickly if you do it daily. Even weekly is £120 on top of your usual phone bill which averages £46 a month in the UK.

Yes it builds up, And like I just said, befire i see theses last posts, How I missed them I do not know, BUT you can have more than 1 phone, I have 2 on my contract, One for me and another for my mum, I can get up to 6 I think, x£30 6 times a day for a month

There was a thread a while back and someone got stung by phone bill,I be fucked to find it but its on here somewhere

 

[spintee]

I will have another say, Its a danger game, so much for responsible gaming, But its no different from using credit cards or even a debit card and use overdraft,

It is a convinces, And casino think using ewallets is got some fraud in it? wait to see the how much trouble they get with mobile payments

 

[vinylweatherman]

I will have another say, Its a danger game, so much for responsible gaming, But its no different from using credit cards or even a debit card and use overdraft,

It is a convinces, And casino think using ewallets is got some fraud in it? wait to see the how much trouble they get with mobile payments

I can see the golden opportunity for scammers, but the £30 per day limit won't be enough for the career scammers who (allegedly) make Neteller a dying option for the legitimate player. It's all down to how well the phone providers secure the system to ensure that only the subscriber is able to charge £30 to their bill, but as we know from the disaster that was the in-app purchase model, anyone who has hold of the phone can spend money from the contract because the handset itself acts as the authority because the app payment system itself put money before security by not requiring authentication for future payments once the first had been authorised. This lead to parents being stung by huge bills because they bought an app game for their kid, and though that because the kid didn't know their password they would not be able to make in-app purchases without having to ask for the parent to enter the password. How wrong they were, but they only found out the next month after the kid had played all month with what they thought was "fantasy money" within the game.

Phones are stolen on a regular basis, they are a prime target for thieves because they are small, valuable, and people have them and use them when out and about because this is the whole purpose of them. A stolen contract phone can now be used to syphon off £30 per day via a casino, and all it needs is the scammers to hatch a scheme to move that £30 from one account to another players' account so that it can be withdrawn with less scrutiny than might apply should they try to withdraw it direct. Phone payments BY DESIGN aid such scams because it's impossible to withdraw back to the deposit method, so the casino will not be suspicious just because a player has deposited by phone bill, but is being awkward about insisting that they have to be paid via another method. With Neteller, casinos insist on paying back to the same Neteller account.

For your small time crook, I am sure £30 per day per nicked phone for up to a month before the bill payer sees what's been going on is well worth the effort.

 

[spintee]

£30 PER DAY per SITE. Like you said if the phone is being used daily for this type of stuff than it will not really get flagged up much, If a house is robbed and some one is on holiday thanthey got a few weeks to do what ever, Yes its a long shot but it does happen,

My sister has got my nephew and niece all the latest gadgets and kids now days are bad with all the games etc, Unbelievable as I had to resort to brook jumping and climbing trees back in the day,

But my sister got a phone bill the other week, I will be lying if I said how much or what site, but was in the region of £500 and I am sure she said it was connected to face book, Any way it was not casino but standedd playing games, But nothing was flagged? Yes she got the bill took off, I have also read many storys of this going on with much higher bills,

Phones can be a lump of gold now days in the right hands, bank details are stored, passwords, Years ago a house got robbed and took 3 people to carry a T.V out and another person to carry the VCR, Now days you can pick up 20 T.Vs but need a open back truck due to the sheer size big scrteen that is and not a old skool big back one, But people not botherd about none of that, a mobile phone will do, If no info or locked than still worth money, Check out the new Iphone 7 price

I can see the golden opportunity for scammers, but the £30 per day limit won't be enough for the career scammers who (allegedly) make Neteller a dying option for the legitimate player. It's all down to how well the phone providers secure the system to ensure that only the subscriber is able to charge £30 to their bill, but as we know from the disaster that was the in-app purchase model, anyone who has hold of the phone can spend money from the contract because the handset itself acts as the authority because the app payment system itself put money before security by not requiring authentication for future payments once the first had been authorised. This lead to parents being stung by huge bills because they bought an app game for their kid, and though that because the kid didn't know their password they would not be able to make in-app purchases without having to ask for the parent to enter the password. How wrong they were, but they only found out the next month after the kid had played all month with what they thought was "fantasy money" within the game.

Phones are stolen on a regular basis, they are a prime target for thieves because they are small, valuable, and people have them and use them when out and about because this is the whole purpose of them. A stolen contract phone can now be used to syphon off £30 per day via a casino, and all it needs is the scammers to hatch a scheme to move that £30 from one account to another players' account so that it can be withdrawn with less scrutiny than might apply should they try to withdraw it direct. Phone payments BY DESIGN aid such scams because it's impossible to withdraw back to the deposit method, so the casino will not be suspicious just because a player has deposited by phone bill, but is being awkward about insisting that they have to be paid via another method. With Neteller, casinos insist on paying back to the same Neteller account.

For your small time crook, I am sure £30 per day per nicked phone for up to a month before the bill payer sees what's been going on is well worth the effort.

 

[spintee]

£30 PER DAY per SITE. Like you said if the phone is being used daily for this type of stuff than it will not really get flagged up much, If a house is robbed and some one is on holiday thanthey got a few weeks to do what ever, Yes its a long shot but it does happen,

My sister has got my nephew and niece all the latest gadgets and kids now days are bad with all the games etc, Unbelievable as I had to resort to brook jumping and climbing trees back in the day,

But my sister got a phone bill the other week, I will be lying if I said how much or what site, but was in the region of £500 and I am sure she said it was connected to face book, Any way it was not casino but standedd playing games, But nothing was flagged? Yes she got the bill took off, I have also read many storys of this going on with much higher bills,

Phones can be a lump of gold now days in the right hands, bank details are stored, passwords, Years ago a house got robbed and took 3 people to carry a T.V out and another person to carry the VCR, Now days you can pick up 20 T.Vs but need a open back truck due to the sheer size big scrteen that is and not a old skool big back one, But people not botherd about none of that, a mobile phone will do, If no info or locked than still worth money, Check out the new Iphone 7 price

I will edit this,

I just spoke to my sister, It was actually just short of £100 and it was from Itunes buying credit for fifa

 

[brianmon]

No doubt Casumo will say it's for their customers' convenience.
But if someone is so short of a £30 deposit and so desperate to play, that they have to resort to taking credit against their phone bill. Then they really shouldn't be gambling.
So as far as I'm concerned, the casino is just being irresponsible and taking advantage of 'vulnerable' players.

They're not bothered about where a deposit is coming from, as long as the money is coming in.

The other problem i can foresee, is what happens to withdrawals?
I know from experience that Casumo have always insisted that any withdrawals I've ever made there, have always had to be taken by the same method, as the deposit was made.

So if someone makes a £30 deposit via their phone bill and wins £1000. Will they end up being £1000 in credit with their phone provider?
Or will Casumo be making exceptions to their own rules and paying to alternative method

 

[Jono777]

Or will Casumo be making exceptions to their own rules and paying to alternative method

They will have to mate.

It says on a few of the sites who offer this deposit method that withdrawals cannot be made this way.

I would make an educated guess that withdrawals will have to be via Bank Transfer, a bit like when players who deposit via Pre pay vouchers such as Paysafe Card.

My other 'concern' with this horrible deposit method is how will/would it work for PAYG mobile users. Will the casino(s) be able to differentiate purely from an 11 digit mobile numer who is on a contract and can be billed and who is on a PAYG only sim.

If it is possible can the casino / payment provider also check if there is enough 'credit' on the PAYG phone as IMO that leads into other avenues in that just how much can they find out / know about our personal details / information etc??

 

[brianmon]

My other 'concern' with this horrible deposit method is how will/would it work for PAYG mobile users. Will the casino(s) be able to differentiate purely from an 11 digit mobile numer who is on a contract and can be billed and who is on a PAYG only sim.

If it is possible can the casino / payment provider also check if there is enough 'credit' on the PAYG phone as IMO that leads into other avenues in that just how much can they find out / know about our personal details / information etc??

I'm sure they'll check the credit.
Otherwise there's a scam waiting to happen, lol

You can get PAYG sim cards for free at any of the network's shops, or from most supermarkets for 99p or less.
£30 deposit for 99p anyone??

 

[Jono777]

I'm sure they'll check the credit.
Otherwise there's a scam waiting to happen, lol

You can get PAYG sim cards for free at any of the network's shops, or from most supermarkets for 99p or less.
£30 deposit for 99p anyone??

Foiled before I got started lol...

Just checked and although I wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole, the mobile option does not show for me.



Happy Days!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm sure they'll check the credit.
Otherwise there's a scam waiting to happen, lol

You can get PAYG sim cards for free at any of the network's shops, or from most supermarkets for 99p or less.
£30 deposit for 99p anyone??

It won't work. I tried to download an Android weather app with more than enough PAYG credit, but it didn't go through because this service was not available for my SIM, so there is clearly a way for this level of differentiation. It's probably the phone service provider, a bit like the system with cards where the first transaction is to request an authorisation for the amount being claimed, and if the bank does not authorise, it won't go through. After all, if a PAYG SIM goes into debit, it's going to be impossible to enforce payment.

 

[vinylweatherman]

No doubt Casumo will say it's for their customers' convenience.
But if someone is so short of a £30 deposit and so desperate to play, that they have to resort to taking credit against their phone bill. Then they really shouldn't be gambling.
So as far as I'm concerned, the casino is just being irresponsible and taking advantage of 'vulnerable' players.

They're not bothered about where a deposit is coming from, as long as the money is coming in.

The other problem i can foresee, is what happens to withdrawals?
I know from experience that Casumo have always insisted that any withdrawals I've ever made there, have always had to be taken by the same method, as the deposit was made.

So if someone makes a £30 deposit via their phone bill and wins £1000. Will they end up being £1000 in credit with their phone provider?
Or will Casumo be making exceptions to their own rules and paying to alternative method

Unless it's Neteller that is, and then with many casinos you are instantly classed as a second rate "potential scumbag" who would probably abuse the hell out of any bonus or promotion you might get, so are blanket excluded from pretty much everything.

Casinos don't need these new methods, they need to stop shunning the old methods, working with the service provider to sort out the problems.

This new method can also bypass card issuers restrictions, as although I can't make gambling deposits with nearly all my cards, it's either "high risk" and the bank blanket blocks them, or they charge a 2.5% "processing fee", however, it's possible to pay a phone bill by the same card, and it's treated as a regular purchase, no fees, and no indication that it ended up in a casino, rather than on apps, texts, and chat.

 

[refre]

Videoslots offer this as well.

The maximum deposit is NOK 120 (€13), the fee is NOK 80 (€9) (!)

They also have an invoice option which I actually looked into a while back.
You are limited to taking out one deposit or loan which has to paid back before depositing again using the same method.'
I think the maximum deposit is around €100.
The fee was quite reasonable. What stopped me though was not being able to pay back using your balance.
You would have to wait for the invoice then there's several days of processing before your payment being registered.
No withdrawals allowed the mean time.

Freddy

 

[CraiGDaniel]

Videoslots offer this as well.

The maximum deposit is NOK 120 (€13), the fee is NOK 80 (€9) (!)

They also have an invoice option which I actually looked into a while back.
You are limited to taking out one deposit or loan which has to paid back before depositing again using the same method.'
I think the maximum deposit is around €100.
The fee was quite reasonable. What stopped me though was not being able to pay back using your balance.
You would have to wait for the invoice then there's several days of processing before your payment being registered.
No withdrawals allowed the mean time.

Freddy

It just gets worse. I am genuinely shocked.

I feel like the casumo rep will be scrolling past this thread.. this is nothing more than giving people with no available money, the chance to play.

There will be so many players getting their phones cut off and credit rating destroyed due to not being able to afford the bill when it comes in.

Why should Casumo care?

If i was Byan they would be straight in the rogue pit for giving people an easy chance to ruin their future.

(Edit) not just casumo but any casino offering this method. Just very shocked to see casumo employ it as i rated them highly

 

[Jono777]

Maybe worth a quick watch of CT's stream tomorrow night, see if he's promoting this new method or has any views on it etc?

 

[goatwack]

It just gets worse. I am genuinely shocked.

I feel like the casumo rep will be scrolling past this thread.. this is nothing more than giving people with no available money, the chance to play.

There will be so many players getting their phones cut off and credit rating destroyed due to not being able to afford the bill when it comes in.

Why should Casumo care?

If i was Byan they would be straight in the rogue pit for giving people an easy chance to ruin their future.

(Edit) not just casumo but any casino offering this method. Just very shocked to see casumo employ it as i rated them highly

I agree in that any casino offering this payment option should become unaccredited or even rogued. Fast payments, friendly chat and good game selection is irrelevant when compared to what is essentially the polar opposite of Responsible Gambling.

 

[CasumoAffiliates]

Thank you all for your feedback. BOKU is a highly-requested payment method that adds additional diversity to our payment product. That being said, we understand your concerns and are investigating limiting this method even further on our side.

 

[babyjoker]

Never heard of this highly requested BOKU and I speak about gambling with other gamblers 7 days a week for maybe 3-12 hrs a day. Sounds like a good way to destroy someone with no credit, anyone can get a mobile contract, and I mean ANYONE!

You'll get those that take out contracts purely to use for gambling, the James Pethericks of society, not good at all

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thank you all for your feedback. BOKU is a highly-requested payment method that adds additional diversity to our payment product. That being said, we understand your concerns and are investigating limiting this method even further on our side.

You should investigate WHY some people are asking for this method? If it's because they want to play now, but are currently broke, then this would be a dangerous request to agree to implement. Credit cards are also a big problem because again people are borrowing money to play, and may not be able to repay the card company.

 

[brianmon]

You should investigate WHY some people are asking for this method? If it's because they want to play now, but are currently broke, then this would be a dangerous request to agree to implement. Credit cards are also a big problem because again people are borrowing money to play, and may not be able to repay the card company.

Although, at least with credit cards, only a (minimum) payment towards the balance is due at the end of the month.
Where as with a mobile bill, the whole balance is due.

It's also perfect for identity thieves.
It's so easy to get a mobile contract, much easier than a credit card.

 

[spintee]

I agree mobile phones are becoming big in society now days, But also with that people have apps connected to the blowers and takes a few clicks for a deposit, without the use for mobile payments

Why on earth has a mobile payment been bought in is beyond me, I suppose its a cheaper alternative to some sites payment methods an charges that come with them, But I can see this becoming a disaster,

At the minute sites are worried about charge backs, Well they have seen nothing yet if this phone option comes in to effect for sites,


Stolen mobile phones, people taking out contracts just to gamble, people claiming they did not deposit, Maybe any one that does choose this method must be fully bonafide before hand,

 

[colinsunderland]

there was a big scam about 10 or so years ago with mobile payments. A bookie opened up that only took £3 bets by text, and you collected your winnings at a post office. There was a £30 limit you could bet per day.
People made a lot of money by taking out sim only contracts on, mainly Sony Mobile, not paying them but running up bills of £200+

 

[vinylweatherman]

Although, at least with credit cards, only a (minimum) payment towards the balance is due at the end of the month.
Where as with a mobile bill, the whole balance is due.

It's also perfect for identity thieves.
It's so easy to get a mobile contract, much easier than a credit card.

Credit cards are just delayed grief, but eventually all that money has to be paid back, and the crunch comes when you can't even afford the minimum payments. Although the whole balance is due on a mobile contract, if you can't afford to pay it you are merely in breach of contract, and the phone company can pursue you for the money, but due to the problems of fraud on stolen phones, there is plenty of wriggle room by challenging the bill. I don't think this can ever end in a chargeback for the casino though, the mobile provider is stuck with the bad debt. The difference with credit cards is that if someone can't pay, they might be able to wriggle out of it by also claiming they were the victim of fraud, but in this case it WILL result in a chargeback for the casino.

Both phones and credit cards are easily stolen because people necessarily carry them around with them all day, however cards are better secured because it is mandatory for the chip & PIN system to be used, whereas with a stolen phone it depends on how the user has configured it, and for convenience many apps tend to do away with multiple authorisation steps in favour of "one click" easy payment. Contactless has the same issue, it too has a £30 limit, but a stolen one can be used to make several £30 transactions simply by having physical possession of the card, even without knowing any of the security details. If the automated systems block the payment, it's easy to bluff your way out of the situation by cursing your "over zealous bank/phone provider" and offering another payment method, and then dumping the phone/card at the next opportunity because it's now "dead" having been flagged.

 

[dunover]

Thank you all for your feedback. BOKU is a highly-requested payment method that adds additional diversity to our payment product. That being said, we understand your concerns and are investigating limiting this method even further on our side.

I would suggest it's popular because it substitutes for a credit card or debit card so people can gamble on tick if they have no/maxed credit cards or nothing in the bank account attached to their debit card. Plus it's easier to bypass 18 yrs. rule with a phone. I'm with Goat and the rest here - it doesn't seem a responsible method of deposit at all. In fact the more I consider it, the more it stinks.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I don't think there will much one can do about. All the big guns such as Google and Apple are pushing for mobile payments and they have the cloud to achieve it. Be it that you have to charge your mobile purse first or it gets added to your monthly bill, it doesn't make much difference.

There will be fraud with any form of payment, the question is only how good the detection systems from the providers/merchants will be.

 

[brianmon]

I don't think there will much one can do about. All the big guns such as Google and Apple are pushing for mobile payments and they have the cloud to achieve it. Be it that you have to charge your mobile purse first or it gets added to your monthly bill, it doesn't make much difference.

There will be fraud with any form of payment, the question is only how good the detection systems from the providers/merchants will be.

The difference is that Apple pay and Android pay simply use the phone in place of a debit or credit card. A card is registered on the phone then used with contactless card terminals. The funds still need to be in your bank account and available, or within your credit card's limit.

where as, with this method, you don't need to have the cash available. Each deposit is just added to your phone bill. which doesn't need to be payed until the end of the month. But paid in full, rather than a minimum payment like a credit card.

So at £30 a day over a month, your phone bill will increase from, say £50 to £900.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If you had to load credit onto phonepay up front, I would not see a problem as it would be money you already have being used, rather like a gift card. The problem is that where it's added to your monthly bill, you can get carried away and then be taken by surprise at the end of the month. We already had the data roaming scandal where people ran up 4 figure, even 5 figure, bills when abroad, and had no indication this was happening till they got the bill. There wasn't even a "credit limit" as there is with credit cards, which is how people managed to run up these huge sums. Where there was an option to set limits, it was woefully inadequate and some people who had set limits found they were ignored. Whilst the EU shut this down in the end, we could be looking at a new scandal with the rapid expansion of payments from your bill, unless of course the phone providers get their act together and implement "hard limits" on contracts by default, and if someone wants a higher limit, they should be assessed in the same way they would be for an increase in their credit limit on a card.

 

[goatwack]

As deposits from various sites via this method can be achieved rather easily, these 'loans' are going to just accumulate into hundreds of pounds, without so much as a safeguard and no single casino willing to accept sole responsibility for encouraging it.

Far better then for the customer's phone company to place a limit on what amounts are allowed via these means, capped at say no more than £50 a month. Otherwise, if just left to the player's own choices or casinos' discretion this 'payment method' will only end one way for many - regret, debt, and the inevitable visit from a collection agency amongst other things.

 

[Jono777]

The 2K I referred to in an earlier post in this thread (run up with Vodafone by a close friend of mine) was achieved in just one month! (this was about 5 years ago and he is still paying it off now!)

This is the main reason (among others) regardless of safe-guard, whether a player is in control or not that I think this deposit method is evil, deadly, irresponsible, rogue, predatory etc etc etc etc.

Nothing personal to any casino adding this deposit method from Satan but your business will still thrive without it. I also strongly feel that 99/100 it will be viewed negatively across forums and gambling sites.

 

[CraiGDaniel]

Fully agree with everyone here.

Reality is the casinos wont remove the option but there needs to be limits in place on the phone providers end - as someone suggested - credit checks and payment historys to determine how much you can run up without getting in to trouble, exactly how credit cards are issued and limits set.

I suspect this is already in place anyway?

I think casumo would be very responsible to keep the daily limit of £30 but have a monthly limit of say £150.

 

[AnnaTS]

This is really bad for a casino to add this as a payment option, I used Boku when i used to play a game on facebook and i played everyday i would say i was addicted to it, when i got my mobile bill i had run up a bill of a few hundred pounds and that was just from playing a game nothing to do with gambling.