Captain Cooks confiscated everything

sprogy

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
Ljubljana
I tried to cashout 1.900 € from CaptainCooks I won on roulette from their bonus and my deposit, and after I sent them copies of my ID, they simply blocked my account and sent me an email (posted below).

Now I am new to this online gambling, and sure, I use a "betting system", but I was simply unaware that any casino would be able to bend the house edge in this way...so now I'm wondering two things:
- can this casino legally take all the money I won (not just their damn bonus, but also my deposit) and I have noone else to blame but myself for not having thoroughlly read their convenient rules?
- can I expect such behaviour from other casinos, which in case that I ever win anything again, can simply decide that my play was "irregular" or does this privilige pertain just to the worst casinos out there?

The email (it's probably because they are endlessly striving to better their service, that they just can't answer any of my emails for two days now):

We would like to inform you that your cashin and account has been blocked due to a breach of the Bonus Account Terms and Conditions of the casino. For more information please look under Bonus Account Terms and Conditions include >> Point 13

“The Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. ‘Irregular play’ includes but is not limited to any one or more of the following types of play:

1. Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 25% or more of the value of the bonus credited to the account prior to the play-through requirement for that bonus having been met;

2. Using the double-up feature to increase bet values;

3. Even money bets on Sic Bo, Craps and Roulette”

We are endlessly striving to better our service. If there is anything more we can do for you, or if we could improve your experience, please do not hesitate to let us know. We are always here for you - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Thank you and kind regards,

Rudolf

Risk Management Team
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Did you bet more than 25% of the bonus or did you play black and red (the even money rule) on roulette?

And yes, sadly they can do pretty much whatever they want like most of the online casinos.
 

heador112

Full Member
PABnononaccred3
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Location
Germany
This is so rogue!

They should limit the bets within the software insteat of stealing peoples money.....
 

sprogy

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
Ljubljana
I violated both of these limitations, luckilly, my original deposit was only 50€, so I guess my "education" was relativelly cheap after all.

However, I still have some faith in this industry as a whole, since I played in the same manner on PartyCasino, where I made over 3k € on my deposit + bonus and was able to withdraw 1k and then another 1,6k so far without a single problem...so hopefully it's all about actually reading the damn Terms & Conditions and not everybody will just take my winnings just for using a system
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
At least you must get your own deposit back. Confiscating your deposit is low, even on Casino Rewards standard.

I wouldnt be placing so called even money bets on roulette when playing with a bonus, it will just end up in grief as most casinos forbids it in the T&Cs. And the HE is still the same if you dont play French roulette.
 

sprogy

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
Ljubljana
the "risk management" won't reply my emails (for two days now), I tried their customer support, but they keep saying I should send an email to the risk management department, so any any advice on further action would be very appreciated...
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
IF this is a first offence, there should be no question about them returning the deposit. It is a breach of the terms, but this simply makes the bets void, therefore you STILL have €50, which should be returned to you.

IF this is a repeat offence, and you have alredy been told you cannot do this on another account, then it would be reasonable for them to recover their costs in remedying the breach of contract from your €50, BUT they must provide you with a receipt for these deductions.

You could also complain to their regulator (Kahnawake), complaining about the non-return of your deposit. Kahnawake will find for the casino about the breach of bonus terms, BUT they will expect your deposit to be returned.

Casinos are different, and whilst Partycasino paid you, this does NOT mean others will as well. In fact, most casinos would NOT pay you under these circumstances, you were very lucky Partycasino DID pay, rather than unlucky that Captain Cooks did not.

Nearly all welcome bonuses have these restrictions, and the only games that are safe to play are non-progressive slots using stakes modest relative to the amount of bonus claimed.

I agree also that the software developers should introduce software enforcement of these terms. It shouldn't be hard, and the alternative is a growing feeling among players that this is a DELIBERATE decision not to have software based enforcement, since it prevents casinos from making extra profit from breaches of the terms.

We have seen this philosophy at work here in the UK, over parking. Motorists have slowly learned through fines what they must NOT do, and this has meant fines have been falling. Councils have reacted by INVENTING NEW VIOLATIONS, or enforcing obscure ones that no-one has ever heard of before, to keep the revenue flowing. The latest one has been to fine drivers for BUYING A TICKET, but not removing an earlier one before sticking the latest one up. They have also stopped giving out sticky backed tickets, and then fining drivers when their ticket gets blown off the dashboard by the wind.
I would expect the SAME "dirty dealings" from ANY entity after our money, INCLUDING online casinos.

Just as council parking wardens' excesses have spawned an industry based on fighting such fines, and winning; online casino excesses have spawned a generation of much cleverer "advantage players" who strive to make casinos fight harder for the money.

This tactic was from a PREVIOUS generation of advantage players, and things have moved on since then. Advantage strategies that work will NOT be found on the various "bonus beating" forums, where strategies like this will be touted as the way to go, but are so old that it is hard to find a casino operator daft enough to fall for it. Even Partycasino will learn the lesson, eventually;)

Try looking for a slots system, only a very few casinos are guarding against this;)
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
Over and over again, we see players show up here with the "Casino stole my money" complaint. Most of the complaints seem to be stemming from players NOT reading the rules and regulations of the casino.

No matter what one thinks of the rules, if you sign up and take a bonus, you MUST read and follow the rules.

I have to say, after screwing themselves out of one payout, I would say that the player will not make the same mistake again.

One would hope. :D
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Over and over again, we see players show up here with the "Casino stole my money" complaint. Most of the complaints seem to be stemming from players NOT reading the rules and regulations of the casino.

No matter what one thinks of the rules, if you sign up and take a bonus, you MUST read and follow the rules.

I have to say, after screwing themselves out of one payout, I would say that the player will not make the same mistake again.

One would hope. :D

All very well, but when a CASINO makes a mistake, they seem offended when we players want more than just a "sorry" for it. The CEO of Rival cried "unfair" when Bryan dumped them in the pit, yet they were making the same mistake, not once, but over and over again.

This player made a mistake, and is crying "unfair" because the casino are not going to accept a "sorry", but are taking a similarly hard line approach.

If casinos expect us to accept it, they must also accept that when THEY make mistakes, a "sorry" does not always "cut it", and we reserve the right to give them a thorough roasting in the forum even if they HAVE already said "sorry".
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
I have no issue with what you are saying, VWM, but I still maintain that if players would read all the terms and question them before playing, we would have a lot less illegitimate complaints.

It's not a matter of choosing one over the other when making mistakes.

Players need to read and understand all the terms and rules.

If a casino is screwing up, then we need to lambaste them for that.

Just my opinion.
 

slotplayer

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Location
USA
this happened before.
there was big debate about getting the bonus terms moved so they could be more accessible after this mess.

xhttp://www.gpwa.org/forum/uk-casino-club-casino-rewards-denies-10k-payout-resolved-186950.html
 

KariRunk

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Location
EU
Over and over again, we see players show up here with the "Casino stole my money" complaint. Most of the complaints seem to be stemming from players NOT reading the rules and regulations of the casino.

No matter what one thinks of the rules, if you sign up and take a bonus, you MUST read and follow the rules.

I have to say, after screwing themselves out of one payout, I would say that the player will not make the same mistake again.

One would hope. :D

And casinos try to "hide" their terms and conditions so good just because this. If someone wins big, there's always a change that this someone hasn't clicked through millions of links to find the terms and casino doesn't have to pay. Why else they can't clearly state their terms in the same page/mail than bonus offer.

And even if they find the terms, you need to be lawyer to understand them. They're often so out of this planet, that I don't think that any other business could get away with such terms and conditions.
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
And casinos try to "hide" their terms and conditions so good just because this. If someone wins big, there's always a change that this someone hasn't clicked through millions of links to find the terms and casino doesn't have to pay. Why else they can't clearly state their terms in the same page/mail than bonus offer.

And even if they find the terms, you need to be lawyer to understand them. They're often so out of this planet, that I don't think that any other business could get away with such terms and conditions.

I don't disagree with you, KariRunk, about them having terms here, there and everywhere, but, no matter, you need to find and understand all the rules. If you do not understand, you need to address the issue with a casino rep before depositing.

Even if we think the terms are totally out in left field, we need to read and understand, and talk with the casino rep if we don't. That's the only way to come out on top when you get lucky enough to win.
 

gloria460

Meister Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Location
Florida
I have no issue with what you are saying, VWM, but I still maintain that if players would read all the terms and question them before playing, we would have a lot less illegitimate complaints.

It's not a matter of choosing one over the other when making mistakes.

Players need to read and understand all the terms and rules.

If a casino is screwing up, then we need to lambaste them for that.

Just my opinion.

I understand what you are saying Jod but think about having to calculate everytime you make a bet. I must decrease my bet when I'm losing accordingly to the 25% or low roll and keep an eye out when I'm almost bust bc as we all know we can hit a good one on a low amount and if that bet was 26% instead of 25% then they can take all your winnings.

I don't take bonuses at Rivals or RTG casinos. I do take them at RR and PP.

I like the way that RR does it. Once you make a deposit you can click on claim your bonus and have it credited within seconds or wait til you're bust. None of your money is tied up in the bonus amount. I do read the rules and it it doesn't make any sense like maximum cash out or 25% wr I'm not taking it period.
 

KariRunk

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Location
EU
I don't disagree with you, KariRunk, about them having terms here, there and everywhere, but, no matter, you need to find and understand all the rules. If you do not understand, you need to address the issue with a casino rep before depositing.

Even if we think the terms are totally out in left field, we need to read and understand, and talk with the casino rep if we don't. That's the only way to come out on top when you get lucky enough to win.

Yeah, of course you need to read them. I wasn't arguing about that, just the fact that no new player realizes that, and how much bullshit they have in their terms. Have anyone even checked are even half of these terms legal, sure you can put anything you want to your terms and conditions, but they can't go above the law. Of course since most of these casinos are registered in some banana islands, they're probably clear to put anything they want to their terms.

Other thing is that they can change them any time they want. So actually even if you're not playing bonus, just straight deposit, you should still check if they have changed their terms and conditions, before you make a deposit and play. Casinos where I've played have changed their terms and conditions countless times, but I have never ever received any email or any other notification that they have changed them.
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: To the OP. I played at Cptn Cooks many years ago, and took every bonus they offered to me. Back then, the rules were different. You could bet what you wanted, but could not make bets like, "$250 on red & $250 on black, at the same time, and so on.

I made thousands of dollars there, and it went into my Neteller acct quickly. I never had any proabelm there, and the games were fair. Yes, some rules are very nit picky these days, and if you take any type of bonus at all, "even at accredited casinos", YOU HAVE TO READ EVERY WORD OF THE TERMS AN CONDITIONS.:eek:

It is simply the way it is.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
It's also a sad state of affairs if you're paranoid about it and end up taking screenshots of the T&C page(s) at the time you claim a bonus. :rolleyes:
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
I don't disagree with you, KariRunk, about them having terms here, there and everywhere, but, no matter, you need to find and understand all the rules. If you do not understand, you need to address the issue with a casino rep before depositing.

Even if we think the terms are totally out in left field, we need to read and understand, and talk with the casino rep if we don't. That's the only way to come out on top when you get lucky enough to win.

Slotplayer already gave the link to the GPWA thread. Kahnawake didnt think its okay for them to have the terms scattered around the website and CR had to pay half of the 10k to the player.

Actually in this case the terms on the bonus account was behind a link and not on the promotions page. Its very crucial information and should be on the "first" page. Not really the same as in the "GPWA case" but still another low by this group.

And even if he was an repeat offender they dont have it in their terms that they can keep his deposit.
 

sprogy

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
Ljubljana
I sent an email to Renée, Affiliate Coordinator, after two days of "silence", I got answers from both the casino and the coordinator, saying they will return my deposit of 50€, since this rule applies only to bonus and winnings, so I guess this matter is kinda resolved now.

I know I can only blame myself for not checking the terms & conditions for the bonuses until I found a casino who lets you try to fight the house edge without tying your arms around your back. Still, I can't blame the rules just because I didn't read them, however as a newcomer, I would not dream of any serious casino to even want to bend the rules of the roulette in such a way, I thought bonuses were plainly their marketing expense. I even wondered, wow, a hell of a lot of people must lose their deposits, if they can match any deposit of up to 300% and still make a profit (or at least the bonuses represent a reasonable "marketing expense"). It would be great for us newcomers, if they put up a warning sign when you start roulette with a bonus: "Beware, you are not actually playing roulette!" Just feels kinda sneaky to me, that's all.

But overall I'm still wondering, could any roulette "system" (when I play with my own money, not the bonus) be considered cheating or does this pertain only to bonuses? Or the advice remains: Read the damn T&C already! ;)
 

RedAndi

Winter is Coming
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
US
Soooooooooooooo....Are we at the point yet where we need a small team of lawyers and a notary in order to take a bonus? :D

I am almost glad I am in the US and have so much trouble making deposits now, saves me from all the bullshit I have been reading on here lately, I do not miss having to pour over T & C's in order to just GAMBLE (bonus or not, because sometimes you have to be careful even without one, withdrawing isn't always a cakewalk).
Going to a B&M tonight, thank god I can just walk in and play and not have to deal with this kinda crap:)

Glad the OP got his deposit back though, now he knows what to watch out for in the future :thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I sent an email to Renée, Affiliate Coordinator, after two days of "silence", I got answers from both the casino and the coordinator, saying they will return my deposit of 50€, since this rule applies only to bonus and winnings, so I guess this matter is kinda resolved now.

I know I can only blame myself for not checking the terms & conditions for the bonuses until I found a casino who lets you try to fight the house edge without tying your arms around your back. Still, I can't blame the rules just because I didn't read them, however as a newcomer, I would not dream of any serious casino to even want to bend the rules of the roulette in such a way, I thought bonuses were plainly their marketing expense. I even wondered, wow, a hell of a lot of people must lose their deposits, if they can match any deposit of up to 300% and still make a profit (or at least the bonuses represent a reasonable "marketing expense"). It would be great for us newcomers, if they put up a warning sign when you start roulette with a bonus: "Beware, you are not actually playing roulette!" Just feels kinda sneaky to me, that's all.

But overall I'm still wondering, could any roulette "system" (when I play with my own money, not the bonus) be considered cheating or does this pertain only to bonuses? Or the advice remains: Read the damn T&C already! ;)


Looks like you are a "wannabe" advantage player. The first lesson is READ THE RULES. The second lesson is DON'T DO WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING.

Any bonus beating "system" you find on the other forums or advantage play website is being used by MANY players, and at some point the casino will notice, and start taking action against it. Often, this involves changing the terms to rule such "systems" against the rules (hence lesson 1).

You also have to play with nit-picking adherence to the rules, even a SINGLE bet outside the rules is enough for the casino to void EVERYTHING, as in this case. A €25 spin would have been OK, the €40 one was enough for them to wriggle out of paying such a large amount. You would have won less had you spun at €25, BUT at least you would have managed to KEEP it.

Most casinos now have these % of bonus max bet rules, so if you don't see one straight away, look for one. They can be as low as 20%, and even this seems a bit high for a "recreational" player, so the future may see even lower allowed max bets.
 

chopper84

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
dublin
I sent an email to Renée, Affiliate Coordinator, after two days of "silence", I got answers from both the casino and the coordinator, saying they will return my deposit of 50€, since this rule applies only to bonus

Hmmm i am in a similar situation where a casino are holding 10k and telling me they need additional checks which they wont elaborate on.
now i kind of done what you did and didnt read the terms and i used it on an excluded game, but i didnt make just one deposit i made about 8 deposits in an hour and used all my cash and bonus's until money was gone or i had won big.

If i had no chance of being paid out should i get all deposits back or just my last deposit?
 

sprogy

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
Ljubljana
Looks like you are a "wannabe" advantage player. The first lesson is READ THE RULES. The second lesson is DON'T DO WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING.

Any bonus beating "system" you find on the other forums or advantage play website is being used by MANY players, and at some point the casino will notice, and start taking action against it. Often, this involves changing the terms to rule such "systems" against the rules (hence lesson 1).

You also have to play with nit-picking adherence to the rules, even a SINGLE bet outside the rules is enough for the casino to void EVERYTHING, as in this case. A €25 spin would have been OK, the €40 one was enough for them to wriggle out of paying such a large amount. You would have won less had you spun at €25, BUT at least you would have managed to KEEP it.

Most casinos now have these % of bonus max bet rules, so if you don't see one straight away, look for one. They can be as low as 20%, and even this seems a bit high for a "recreational" player, so the future may see even lower allowed max bets.

Yes, I suppose I unwillingly joined some "advantage sect" who as it seems is partially responsible for the casinos being forced to tweak the terms in such a manner, just to prevent bonus piracy (or maybe it just serves as a fine exuse for doing so). Where do I pick up my membership card? ;)

Anyway, at first I thought I was really unlucky that I had lost my winnings, but after I did some research I found out that the vast majority of casinos has similar bonus terms (and would have done exactly the same had I played there), I realised that it was pure luck that my first try at online roulette was at PartyCasino (they only limit how much playing roulette contributes to bonus playthrough requirements), or I could have kissed my entire winnings goodbye...

I entered the gambling world because a friend of mine showed me a "roulette system" and since I can quickly programm a 100 M spin generator also know my way around statistics and have an investing background it was quickly clear that the "system" couldn't be profitable for long, unless you were one of the luckies man alive (and that sadly is the case with all of the "systems" I found so far). However, since I'm not keen on giving up, I did some wild guessing and developed a system on my own. So my question here is not how much you are willing to pay for "the system" :) but if anyone has any experience with casinos confiscating real money profits for "irregular play", which is so painfully obvious the case when playing with bonus money and always so unclearlly defined in their non-bonus terms...
 
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