Bye LVbet, it was fun whilst it lasted.

Well they are good people imo. You basically told them to f off. They still paid you and were nice to you. Try that at casumo :$
 
LVbet - recipient of Best Customer Support 2019 at Casinomeister
Got the dreaded SOW request. Explained that I fund my modest gambling by using a tiny bit of the substantial savings and investments I own, but they wanted screenshots of this and I refuse to send this as its none of the casinos business.

I accept that it may well be that to use a casino these days I have to provide them my intimate financial details, but I will never do it. I spend a few grand a year at Tescos but they dont require even my ID let alone ask me how I can afford such luxuries as their Finest range rather than Basics.

Anyway, another one bites the dust.

Good Morning to you,

I'm going to get down to the nitty gritty, as much as I'd like to be able to discuss the inner workings of how these requests come about, that would involve delving into the personals and I think at least from my side, that the details remain confidential.

Unfortunately following UKGC procedure in relation to our request for Source of Funds, winnings from other casinos / bookmakers aren't considered as valid "income"or other wise" and without being able to have hard proof that we can provide to the UKGC in case they come knocking and asking whether we have anything to prove that you could afford the "modest gambling" (I agree, quite modest) that you've been doing.

You'd tell me "What? It's not as if the UKGC will ask about a player with such a low amount of deposits, they're after the heavy hitters." And my answer to that is, I wish that was the case. We've been asked during audits to provide "Documents proving affordability to play" for customers with less a grand's worth of deposits. And if you don't provide them, you'll get a slap on the wrist, while being warned it might not be so lenient on the next audit.

Do not get me wrong, I am not in any way or form trying to entice you back. If you're uncomfortable providing us with the SOW Request, that's fine by me. I feel uncomfortable giving it to my bank when I'm applying for a car loan let alone a gambling company.

Guys and girls, I understand the inconvenience of this. I really do and I wish I could say that this is not the norm however it's heading that way. The UKGC is placing heavy emphasis on licensed casinos to be able to prove affordability, responsibility and "interactivity" with customers.

Each casino is handling this in its own way and I think on the scale of things, we're not handling it too badly. We pay out any balance or withdrawals that the customer has pending in cases where the only "annoying" point is the SOW request and we try our best to limit these requests to the bare minimum.

It might be a bit too early for a post such as this, and I'm pretty sure I've repeated myself once or twice however I'm just trying to paint a clear picture of the situation that UK Casinos are passing through right now.

KR
Tyler
LV BET
 
Good to hear things from a casinios viewpoint,One things for sure, its a matter of dont shoot the messenger,
not point it getting snotty because a casino makes SOW requests,its an obligation placed on them by the UKGC.No one wants it but its the way it is.
Couple of points, cant work out if winnings are disregarded completely or acceptable as part of the wealth
assessment if documentary proof is provided,should be as the levels of deposits will be related to the players
win\loss history.
The fact that 1k deposit can trigger audits does not bode well,its going to cover almost all players and make
SOW demands unavoidable everywhere.
Since we are stuck with them , the most important thing is the attitude and actions taken when this info
is requested,the worst thing casinos can do is freeze withdrawals and continue to allow deposits, to me that
is just cynical and rogue.
 
Good Morning to you,

I'm going to get down to the nitty gritty, as much as I'd like to be able to discuss the inner workings of how these requests come about, that would involve delving into the personals and I think at least from my side, that the details remain confidential.

Unfortunately following UKGC procedure in relation to our request for Source of Funds, winnings from other casinos / bookmakers aren't considered as valid "income"or other wise" and without being able to have hard proof that we can provide to the UKGC in case they come knocking and asking whether we have anything to prove that you could afford the "modest gambling" (I agree, quite modest) that you've been doing.

You'd tell me "What? It's not as if the UKGC will ask about a player with such a low amount of deposits, they're after the heavy hitters." And my answer to that is, I wish that was the case. We've been asked during audits to provide "Documents proving affordability to play" for customers with less a grand's worth of deposits. And if you don't provide them, you'll get a slap on the wrist, while being warned it might not be so lenient on the next audit.

Do not get me wrong, I am not in any way or form trying to entice you back. If you're uncomfortable providing us with the SOW Request, that's fine by me. I feel uncomfortable giving it to my bank when I'm applying for a car loan let alone a gambling company.

Guys and girls, I understand the inconvenience of this. I really do and I wish I could say that this is not the norm however it's heading that way. The UKGC is placing heavy emphasis on licensed casinos to be able to prove affordability, responsibility and "interactivity" with customers.

Each casino is handling this in its own way and I think on the scale of things, we're not handling it too badly. We pay out any balance or withdrawals that the customer has pending in cases where the only "annoying" point is the SOW request and we try our best to limit these requests to the bare minimum.

It might be a bit too early for a post such as this, and I'm pretty sure I've repeated myself once or twice however I'm just trying to paint a clear picture of the situation that UK Casinos are passing through right now.

KR
Tyler
LV BET

Thank you for replying to this subject, and being quite detailed about it.
Surely the customers you send a sow to should be high risk customers though, as per all the guidance? I do agree that it shouldn't just be customers with a high spend, which is why I think it shouldn't be based on a set threshold.

I don't see how winnings from elsewhere cannot be considered when looking at affordability though. If I won £35 million on the Euromillions, quit my job, then a month later deposited £2000, I would fail the affordability test as I have no income? Or even replace the euromillions with say £1.6 million from a mega moolah jackpot?

Well done to you for paying withdrawals though, unlike certain other scummy casinos.
 
Good to hear things from a casinios viewpoint,One things for sure, its a matter of dont shoot the messenger,
not point it getting snotty because a casino makes SOW requests,its an obligation placed on them by the UKGC.No one wants it but its the way it is.
Couple of points, cant work out if winnings are disregarded completely or acceptable as part of the wealth
assessment if documentary proof is provided,should be as the levels of deposits will be related to the players
win\loss history.
The fact that 1k deposit can trigger audits does not bode well,its going to cover almost all players and make
SOW demands unavoidable everywhere.
Since we are stuck with them , the most important thing is the attitude and actions taken when this info
is requested,the worst thing casinos can do is freeze withdrawals and continue to allow deposits, to me that
is just cynical and rogue.


Great Questions Shadow, and I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.

1) cant work out if winnings are disregarded completely or acceptable as part of the wealth
assessment if documentary proof is provided,should be as the levels of deposits will be related to the players
win\loss history.


So, in the eyes of the UKGC, winnings are not considered as part of the Source of Wealth or Source of Funds unless they're placed inside an actual bank account. If I get a screenshot of a customer showing me his winnings from XYZ Casino, unfortunately that for me means nothing.

I need to see it in a recent bank statement to prove that yes, the user hasn't went ahead and spent it again but actually put it into his bank account and is withdrawing it back out from there.

To address the same point, Level of Deposits vs Level of withdrawals means nothing in the eyes of the UKGC, the deposit level can be what might be considered "low" but if you're a customer who in the last month or so deposited a huge bulk of cash, and by huge, I mean even 500 GBP, we're obligated to ask you to let us know how you're able to afford that chunk of cash.

If you come back to us saying "Oh, I'm the CEO of a fortune 500 company and I make six figures a month" and we can't find anything to substantiate that claim, we're forced to ask you to prove it. If on the other hand, we can find something that proves that it might be possible, we might delay that request to a slightly higher figure. However, you'd still be on our monitoring lists and counting down till the request for documentation goes out.

2) The fact that 1k deposit can trigger audits does not bode well,its going to cover almost all players and make
SOW demands unavoidable everywhere.


It's not the 1k in itself that triggers the audit. It's the fact that during the annual audits by the UKGC, the auditor can ask about anything, and trust me, they do. I've even had to walk an auditor through the registration process and asked questions on why the system doesn't immediately add a "Capital Letter" to the name if the customer doesn't do it himself. That's how random the questions can be.

Now as you can imagine on a sensitive subject such as affordability for a customer, they're way more likely to ask questions than on a registration form. So, honestly all UK customers are covered by this request at some point.

Let me know if I can try to answer anything else guys.

KR,
Tyler
 
I could be wrong but I'm sure I have read at some point (since this SoW reared its ugly head)

*) Casino(s) mention that winnings from other sources CAN be considered, proof via the funds hitting the payout method used.

*) Those that recycle withdrawals time and again (small amounts / low rollers) would also be accepted

FWIW, I think the whole criteria needs a complete overhaul, a massive pointer would maybe to look into those with time served playing history, where there have been no changes in say 3 years+ and the same pattern shows with no reported issues or flags (such as asking for frees on chat, another quick deposit following a bust out etc) then this should suffice as controlled play.

UKGC need to speak with seasoned but controlled players to get a much better idea when it comes to RG.
 
Thank you for replying to this subject, and being quite detailed about it.
Surely the customers you send a sow to should be high risk customers though, as per all the guidance? I do agree that it shouldn't just be customers with a high spend, which is why I think it shouldn't be based on a set threshold.

I don't see how winnings from elsewhere cannot be considered when looking at affordability though. If I won £35 million on the Euromillions, quit my job, then a month later deposited £2000, I would fail the affordability test as I have no income? Or even replace the euromillions with say £1.6 million from a mega moolah jackpot?

Well done to you for paying withdrawals though, unlike certain other scummy casinos.


No problem Colin, I'm here to do my best to be transparent and honest with you guys at the end of the day.

I agree, it should only be to"High Risk Customers", however when it comes to the UK, the guidelines can be so vague yet strict at the same time, that the guidance is as good as Google Maps is in Area 51 :) What the guidelines cover in terms of AML / CFT as "High Risk", they might contradict themselves in another section such as affordability and say "Operator must ensure that customers can afford to play on their licensed operations", and how does one do that? We need to ask customer to prove he / she has got something stored or earned to fund it. It's an ongoing loop of snake eating his own tail.

Speaking about your example, if you can show me that the Euromillions are in your bank account balance at the time of depositing, therefore having a considerable amount of savings that when taken into consideration with your deposits "do not contradict each other or impact your life negatively", it can be accepted. Every once in a while, we might need to ask you to prove the balance is still healthy, but you won't be pestered every deposit. It's based on Information we have about you vs activity on your account.

"Well done to you for paying withdrawals though, unlike certain other scummy casinos." - I'm not sure we deserve a pat on the back for doing the right thing. I think this should be the norm and we shouldn't be applauded for doing what we're meant to do.

KR,
Tyler
LV BET
 
Hi Tyler, have absolutely nothing bad to say about LVbet, great casino, all my fav slots. Deposits and more importantly withdrawals processed without any issues or delay. Would say just the sort of casino players want.
But I will not ever send in sensitive financial information when I just want to spend my own hard earned money. That goes for casinos, supermarkets, booking holidays, booking a plumber or ordering a pizza etc etc
 
"Well done to you for paying withdrawals though, unlike certain other scummy casinos." - I'm not sure we deserve a pat on the back for doing the right thing. I think this should be the norm and we shouldn't be applauded for doing what we're meant to do.

We shall differ on that opinion :) Credit where it's due. Casumo have a term in their T&C's that if you fail to verify when requested (including AML/RG requests) you will forfeit any balance in your account at that point.
I agree with you it should be the norm what you do, however, some casinos seem to think it isn't, so well done to you for not taking that approach.
 
Its also not limited to the UKGC, its applies to MGA and SGA as well. Triggers/thresholds to start the SOW process differ per casino and it is up to the casino's risk appetite to set these. Therefore there one casino might start asking questions while the other doesnt.
 
Great Questions Shadow, and I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.

1) cant work out if winnings are disregarded completely or acceptable as part of the wealth
assessment if documentary proof is provided,should be as the levels of deposits will be related to the players
win\loss history.


So, in the eyes of the UKGC, winnings are not considered as part of the Source of Wealth or Source of Funds unless they're placed inside an actual bank account. If I get a screenshot of a customer showing me his winnings from XYZ Casino, unfortunately that for me means nothing.

I need to see it in a recent bank statement to prove that yes, the user hasn't went ahead and spent it again but actually put it into his bank account and is withdrawing it back out from there.

To address the same point, Level of Deposits vs Level of withdrawals means nothing in the eyes of the UKGC, the deposit level can be what might be considered "low" but if you're a customer who in the last month or so deposited a huge bulk of cash, and by huge, I mean even 500 GBP, we're obligated to ask you to let us know how you're able to afford that chunk of cash.

If you come back to us saying "Oh, I'm the CEO of a fortune 500 company and I make six figures a month" and we can't find anything to substantiate that claim, we're forced to ask you to prove it. If on the other hand, we can find something that proves that it might be possible, we might delay that request to a slightly higher figure. However, you'd still be on our monitoring lists and counting down till the request for documentation goes out.

2) The fact that 1k deposit can trigger audits does not bode well,its going to cover almost all players and make
SOW demands unavoidable everywhere.


It's not the 1k in itself that triggers the audit. It's the fact that during the annual audits by the UKGC, the auditor can ask about anything, and trust me, they do. I've even had to walk an auditor through the registration process and asked questions on why the system doesn't immediately add a "Capital Letter" to the name if the customer doesn't do it himself. That's how random the questions can be.

Now as you can imagine on a sensitive subject such as affordability for a customer, they're way more likely to ask questions than on a registration form. So, honestly all UK customers are covered by this request at some point.

Let me know if I can try to answer anything else guys.

KR,
Tyler

Information much appriciated ,thanks.Just wish the UKGC would calm down a bit and perhaps listen the what
the players say now and then, must be hell for the casinos sometimes, trying to keep the UKGC satisified and
having to deal with iriate customers.Cant blame any casinos for quitting the UK market.
 
Nothing wrong with casinos' thorough approach. I mean if I'd lost £10,000 over six months, and somehow won £2K at a later date, I expect those alarms to be triggered. Neeooo neeooo!

I would also sincerely hope to think that if I won the Euromillions that it wouldn't impact my life negatively, and that it can be accepted, and that making a few deposits out of this pot shows no contradictions (eg 21/7/20 - debit - £2000 - Al Qaeda) nor that it would impact my life negatively!

One can but laugh at the absurdity of the on-the-fly criteria applied
 
And this is the thing - unless they suspect criminal activity, there is no valid reason to refuse withdrawals pending a source of wealth check, if the customer is already fully verified otherwise, and has been playing there for a while. It's why the LVBet approach seems much better than Casumo's. Even their "goodbye" email was polite and friendly.
 
TBH I don't have any issue with the SOW situation as it's being explained by LV BET here.

It sounds like the regulations could do with being clearer, and casinos need to be sure they can explain their activities in the event of an audit. It seems as if minor infractions come with a warning to get things sorted for next time, but we've also seen some huge fines be handed out, and casinos will want to avoid that.

I also don't think lumping gambling in with 'ordering pizza' or 'going shopping' or 'booking a plumber' is useful. No one gets addicted to having plumbers come round at £50 per hour to pretend to fix pipes that don't need fixing. Some people do have very serious, crippling problems with gambling addiction and as imperfect as the regulations are, it's those vulnerable people that they're intended to help.

Admittedly a SOW would be easy for me to do, as I have a 'standard' job with a monthly payslip and some money in the bank, but I wouldn't see it as some sort of horrible intrustion if I were asked to do one.

Also affordability checks are required for many things, it's all very well making statements such as 'I will never give my sensitive financial information to anyone for anything', but see how far that gets you when you're after a mortgage, for example.

The more I think about it the less bothered I am about SOW requests, in a way we're 'doing our bit' to make the online casino landscape safer for everyone, sure it's an inconvenience, but it's not like some world-ending indignity being inflicted upon us.

Moreover, LV BET have stated they will never hold withdrawals to ransom (as opposed to the utterly fucking scummy practices of Casumo), so if a player gets a SOW request and doesn't want to comply, he can simply withdraw his money and walk away.

On balance, I'd say I'm more likely to play at LV BET than less, based on this thread.
 
LOL...I got the dreaded SoW at @Captain Rizk today. Need to upload a wage slip etc. which I cannot as self-employed. There you go. Took 'em 17k of deposits to ask for proof of income lol.. If I was a problem gambler on a normal income, we'd all be out on the street after that amount spent so it kind of defeats the object.
Well, at least I won't have that stupid wheel of 5 spins to endure again.....
 
LOL...I got the dreaded SoW at @Captain Rizk today. Need to upload a wage slip etc. which I cannot as self-employed. There you go. Took 'em 17k of deposits to ask for proof of income lol.. If I was a problem gambler on a normal income, we'd all be out on the street after that amount spent so it kind of defeats the object.
Well, at least I won't have that stupid wheel of 5 spins to endure again.....
You and that wheel had a love hate kind of thing going on
 
i would like to try them but have to pass,took months to find 3 casinos that are happy with my SOW,but still
have to ration my deposits to stop the axe falling again, really couldnt go through the process again at somewhere new.Shame
Is there a UK welcome package yet for this casino? According to this it's not :

LV BET Casino: €1000 + Up to 1000 LV Spins Welcome Package - Casinomeister

Also, do they run on the highest RTP? Do they support Visa Direct?

Answers from this thread makes it a positive experience, so I might register there for a punt if they are decent otherwise.


Hey @CasinoNinja,

To my knowledge, we've cut the Welcome Bonus in several countries for several reasons I can not disclose, and the UK is one of them. We do offer some promotions however not all of them.

With regards to the highest RTP, we do run the highest RTP on some providers but not all. @bamberfishcake, maybe you can guide our acquaintance to the Forum Thread you created. At one point, I gave the RTPs of the games we offer that Bamber was asking about.


We're always improving on Payment Methods, I do believe we have Visa Direct however honestly I will need to check this as my brain is frazzled at the moment in terms of the payment methods on offer for the UK Market.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

KR,
Tyler
LV BET
 
I think most of the "big" providers are doing Visa Direct now, whether they've announced it or not.
 
Thanks @LV BET

Believe @CasinoNinja already found the thread but here is the link:

What casinos have the best payouts UK?

At my last check PlaynGo were 94% range and Red Tiger were lower with Jackpots included.

Never had ssues with LV Bet and the reps on CM have always been responsive and professional.

When i journey 'off piste' i know im in safe hands with LV.
 
Last edited:
LVbet - recipient of Best Customer Support 2019 at Casinomeister

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