Betat SoW Request - 1 casino less on my to play list

lotusch

A little mix of Dutch and Irish
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Location
Dún Dealgan
Funny,

Was discussing this the other day in another thread saying I never got a SoW request before from any casino.
Played at Betat last weekend and made a WD which was processed as normal.
Had not played there in a while and decided to give them another go.

Day of WD I got an e-mail from one of their VIP guys adding 20 quid with no WR to my account.

I was thinking, wow nice to be back here.
Made a WD and some profit and still get a 20 Euro free chip.

However later that day I got below e-mail.

Hi Mark,

My name is Lana from the Verification team here at BETAT Casino.

As a betting operator licenced and regulated by the Malta Gaming Authority (MGA), we have a licencing obligation to know that the source of the funds that customers use to play with us is legitimate. Therefore, at times when certain limits and thresholds are reached it may become necessary for us to ask customers to provide evidence to confirm the source(s) of funds they use.

We do appreciate this may be the first time you have been asked this question, but it is a clear licencing requirement from the MGA and part of EU legislation. BETAT is not alone in seeking this type of information from customers, and it is likely that other betting operators will also request this information from you when your spend/play reaches equivalent levels.

What we would require in this regard is the following:

• A statement noting your primary source of income - ex: Salary / Investments / Inheritance / Savings / etc
• Documentation evidencing your stated Source of Funds from which Casino deposits stem – ex: Bank account showing incoming salary credits / Dividends from investments crediting your bank account / Transfer of inheritance funds / etc

I thank you in advance for your co-operation and do not hesitate to contact me should you have any questions.

Regards,


Lana
BETAT Verification team

I always said, any casino that wants to nose into my private financial situation will find a request to close my account right away which I have done so.
Sent them an e-mail and requested immediate account closure and also removal from any mailinglist I am on with them.

No one has the right to see how much I earn and what I spend my money on and what bills I pay.

If you are looking to ban money laundering and criminal money being put in the casino system then look at people that deposit 25 grand a day and make 50 Euro bets.
I don't think my usual 50-100 Euro deposits and 1-2 Euro bets qualify.
It is an utter bullsh*t rule and I hope not more casinos will follow, otherwise my online gambling days will be over at some stage.
 

L&L-Jan

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Location
Malta
Unfortunately players will receive more of these requests in the near future, but trust me - it is only for the good for the industry in general.

I can't say much about individual casinos and their set tresholds for when sending these requests, as that differs a lot.
For a player it is not ideal as it affects the casino/game experience.

But all the changes from an AML point of view or a regulatory body point of view are good for the industry.
It is a change, and getting used to a change takes time. Within 5 years from now I'm positive that every player is happy to participate and provide all the required documents in order to play at a safe, trustworthy, customer focussed casinos with a focus on responsible gaming. Because that's where we are going to with the industry.

My 2 cents,

Kr. Jan
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
Whilst I agree with Jan's response, I also agree strongly with the OP, one point in particular.

Casino operators or Licencing required check on AML, and RG sure - not a problem, go for it and good luck!

However

The deposit / betting pattern described above would take years to successfully launder ones dirty dosh :confused:

Mine would take twice as long on £25 deposits and usually 0.20 - 0.40 bets :eek:

The thought process behind SoW is there but the "when to apply it" is so wrong.

Casinos will lose lots of genuine honest players over this if it is not sorted out soon :(
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Guys.. Keep in mind that both UKGC and MGA set AML threshold limits, you might not have deposited it in large quantities but for example, if you hit 10k in deposits (and please note UKGC doesn't give a rat's arse if you withdrew 5000k), you're an AML risk and therefore rather than getting fined by the UKGC for non existent guidelines that they state that they have, they have to risk losing a customer by asking him for this document.. Which no casino really knows what to do with..
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Unfortunately players will receive more of these requests in the near future, but trust me - it is only for the good for the industry in general.

I can't say much about individual casinos and their set tresholds for when sending these requests, as that differs a lot.
For a player it is not ideal as it affects the casino/game experience.

But all the changes from an AML point of view or a regulatory body point of view are good for the industry.
It is a change, and getting used to a change takes time. Within 5 years from now I'm positive that every player is happy to participate and provide all the required documents in order to play at a safe, trustworthy, customer focussed casinos with a focus on responsible gaming. Because that's where we are going to with the industry.

My 2 cents,

Kr. Jan

Not every player, no casino are getting it from me. Well not until they can tell me how I can provide it without breaching business agreements I have in place. I asked Casumo & Videoslots at the beginning of the year, how I would supply the information they required without showing affiliate earnings from other companies, as to do so would be a breach of the affiliate agreements, and theirs had the same clause in, so surely they weren't telling me to breach their own agreements. I was told they would come back to me. Still waiting.

Had my first SOW for AML (I checked if it was AML or RG) from Energycasino last week. Account closed 10 minutes later. If it was a casino where I had high deposits or 'strange' play then I would have worked with them, but I think I've done 20-30 £20-50 deposits with them over a couple of years, and one or two withdrawals. Theres no way my style of play or level of deposits should put me at a high risk of money laundering, so I just didn't engage with them at all, and closed the account. If it had been a casino where I could see why it was being asked for I may have tried a little harder, but not with them.
 

lotusch

A little mix of Dutch and Irish
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Location
Dún Dealgan
Unfortunately players will receive more of these requests in the near future, but trust me - it is only for the good for the industry in general.

I can't say much about individual casinos and their set tresholds for when sending these requests, as that differs a lot.
For a player it is not ideal as it affects the casino/game experience.

But all the changes from an AML point of view or a regulatory body point of view are good for the industry.
It is a change, and getting used to a change takes time. Within 5 years from now I'm positive that every player is happy to participate and provide all the required documents in order to play at a safe, trustworthy, customer focussed casinos with a focus on responsible gaming. Because that's where we are going to with the industry.

My 2 cents,

Kr. Jan


I understand Jan, but should the thresholds not be higher?
I am a very normal player, nothing special.
I make deposits of 50-100 euro per session and my bets can range from anything between 0.20 - 5.00 (when balance allows).
It is not that I have secrets to hide but I do feel a third party like a casino should not ask for my income details.
That is private information.
 

nikantw

Banned User
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Location
EU
It has been analyzed sufficiently in the other SoW threads.
In short, what all of you said so far. Good idea, bad rules from UKGC and MGA, casinos that have no idea what to do.

I want to add that there is nothing "safe" about sending all my detailed financial information to 100s of companies. Clearly not the way to do this.
 

L&L-Jan

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Location
Malta
I understand Jan, but should the thresholds not be higher?
I am a very normal player, nothing special.
I make deposits of 50-100 euro per session and my bets can range from anything between 0.20 - 5.00 (when balance allows).
It is not that I have secrets to hide but I do feel a third party like a casino should not ask for my income details.
That is private information.

I understand the frustration, and to be honest I cant say much about tresholds the various casinos apply.
I think ours for MGA players is decent and for the UKGC we have 10k in deposits treshold, personally I found that on the low side - but it's a requirement, so doesnt matter what I think of it :)

Bottom line guys, all these changes from AML and regulatory point of view, it will get worse but that is only for a better industry as a whole.

Accept it, as I have to do the same as a player and enjoy the games :)

Kr. Jan
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
I understand the frustration, and to be honest I cant say much about tresholds the various casinos apply.
I think ours for MGA players is decent and for the UKGC we have 10k in deposits treshold, personally I found that on the low side - but it's a requirement, so doesnt matter what I think of it :)

Bottom line guys, all these changes from AML and regulatory point of view, it will get worse but that is only for a better industry as a whole.

Accept it, as I have to do the same as a player and enjoy the games :)

Kr. Jan
That 10k in deposits. Is that over a certain period of time? Maybe a year or whatever? Or just a total amount?
If someone deposits 10k in a month, maybe they'd warrant a SOW/AML check.
But if it took someone 5 years to reach that 10k threshold, from small amounts deposited every now and again (ie a casual player). Do they still warrant the same checks?
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Thought it’s a risk based approach/changes to behaviours, of which increased deposits is part of etc.

Using a blanket amount wouldn’t appear to be such surely?

As said - someone taking 5 years to get there and someone going from 1 quid to that overnight, are wildly different and treating the same is in no way a proportionate approach.

Guess I’m depositing 9,999 just to be safe :p
 

nikantw

Banned User
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Location
EU
....it will get worse but that is only for a better industry as a whole.

Accept it, as I have to do the same as a player and enjoy the games :)

Kr. Jan

Relax and enjoy the invasion .... :(

It is NOT for the best, the way it is done. Spam everywhere from leaked names, emails .... from casino's Data Base.
Imagine when the SoW leaks out. It is inevitable.

Only GC or an authority like this should be allowed to handle such info.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Guys.. Keep in mind that both UKGC and MGA set AML threshold limits, you might not have deposited it in large quantities but for example, if you hit 10k in deposits (and please note UKGC doesn't give a rat's arse if you withdrew 5000k), you're an AML risk and therefore rather than getting fined by the UKGC for non existent guidelines that they state that they have, they have to risk losing a customer by asking him for this document.. Which no casino really knows what to do with..

Has there been an update recently as the guidance from earlier this year didn't mention deposit limits, it said it should be a case by case approach and anyone going through aml procedures should be classed as a high risk of being involved in criminal activity?
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
I understand the frustration, and to be honest I cant say much about tresholds the various casinos apply.
I think ours for MGA players is decent and for the UKGC we have 10k in deposits treshold, personally I found that on the low side - but it's a requirement, so doesnt matter what I think of it :)

Bottom line guys, all these changes from AML and regulatory point of view, it will get worse but that is only for a better industry as a whole.

Accept it, as I have to do the same as a player and enjoy the games :)

Kr. Jan

Jan, in everything there has to be measure and reason. The amount of details a person has to disclose because he moved a few K over a year or two with a casino is rather mindboggling. I get a bank loan with fewer documents.

Plus, very few casinos provide safe upload facilities and ask players to send their most private docs via email, the most unsecured way there is on the WWW.

Third, docs are often rejected for the smallest reason. Resolution too low, a corner not totally visible etc etc., plus very often a simple bank statement is not enough. One gets the feeling there has to be even the player's blood type on it to be acceptable.

Fourth, if a player shows his last 2 or 3 wage slips, why on earth does a casino need to have a bank statement too? I had loans for investments much higher than a normal casino player deposits at casinos and was never asked for more than proof of income. It just doesn't make sense.

Last but not least, there seems to be no common procedure and casinos seem to be free to interpret the regulations and requirements as they see fit. That itself opens up a whole can of worms.

And no, the online casino business will always be a "wild wild west", the question is only how much regulations can strangle it but it will never be 100% clean.

IMO, all this AML, SOW, RG and god knows what else will come along are all things so the industry can pat itself on the back and say "we've done our best". That a player can open 500 casino accounts and deposit millions, is still not taken care of.
 
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Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
At least MGA ruling gives operators chance to use threshold for rolling 180 days period instead of lifetime, many who been playing in site many years are triggering it even making small deposits and that doesn't make any sense if there is no any suspicious transactions like all anonymous payment methods or something what rings a bells. Some casino which i don't want to name asked it from me and it really was based on my lifetime deposits, my total deposits there this year were under 1000€ and biggest one 50€, all from my card and withdrawals back to same card which is verified.

Did close my account there and left my huge 100€ withdrawal to be given to charity or what ever it happen to that. Could of course self-exclude my account and then might get balance refunded but don't want to start to play that game as MGA also planning to go gross SE for all operators if you do it for one. Bye bye my few euros and that casino.

E: To add, of course request came via email without possibility to upload it through secure connection through casinos site, if KYC can be uploaded there, why to add some more tabs there for this new nice thingie....?
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
I understand the frustration,

Bottom line guys, all these changes from AML and regulatory point of view, it will get worse but that is only for a better industry as a whole.


Kr. Jan

If your referring that it will be better for the industry as a whole due to many smaller casinos closing due to players can't or wont supply these docs and closing accounts because of this I agree with you.

As been discussed on other threads, as it stands its more than just a few customers circumstances that prevent them from providing these docs even if they wanted to, leaving no option to close accounts.

An example for me is that I have already closed nearly 2 dozen casino accounts this year already, most being the smaller ones but a couple of mainstream ones too. I havent had a request for SOW yet but we both know its only a matter of time, and Im gonna struggle to prove the deposits are "Clean" as no wage slips and money in my bank each month is just a faster payments etc.

However now I have done this I can see I could be amplifying the problem for my future online casino playing due to instead of my monthly gambling allowance being spread over many casinos it will now be concentrated on only a few, raising my deposits on those few and in turn hitting any threshold much sooner??

It should certainly go on NET deposits rather than just a total deposited as someone could have say deposited 12k and cashed total of 13k yet might have to go through all that when in fact they are up 1k
 
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MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Has there been an update recently as the guidance from earlier this year didn't mention deposit limits, it said it should be a case by case approach and anyone going through aml procedures should be classed as a high risk of being involved in criminal activity?

That's the public info released, the issue is, we get updated on what we SHOULD be doing :( And it doesn't always match what's publicly stated :((
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Relax and enjoy the invasion .... :(

It is NOT for the best, the way it is done. Spam everywhere from leaked names, emails .... from casino's Data Base.
Imagine when the SoW leaks out. It is inevitable.

Only GC or an authority like this should be allowed to handle such info.

Extremely valid point.

Now they will be able to cherry pick the biggest spenders / business people as that information is available to them to sell. I can foresee one of the employees selling the biggest depositors list for a fat sum. Like you say... It's inevitable.

Nate
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
That's the public info released, the issue is, we get updated on what we SHOULD be doing :( And it doesn't always match what's publicly stated :((

Just be curios without asking which casino you are engaged, are there big part of players who have SOW requested and they are not happy to provide it (i assume it's pretty much same with all casinos, except of course if these are asked based on lifetime deposits for some who play very little and reach threshold in 5 years small deposits instead of making these fast when it's easier to understand)?

Not asking any exact numbers or any confidential information, just in general and understand if you don't want to reply to that. Like said in many topics, it took time for people to get used to KYC process and this is bit more sensitive information as KYC information you have already, address, personal details, used payment methods. I hope more casinos would use that rolling 180 days period instead lifetime, not sure is it ok for UK but at least it is for MGA.
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Just be curios without asking which casino you are engaged, are there big part of players who have SOW requested and they are not happy to provide it (i assume it's pretty much same with all casinos, except of course if these are asked based on lifetime deposits for some who play very little and reach threshold in 5 years small deposits instead of making these fast when it's easier to understand)?

Not asking any exact numbers or any confidential information, just in general and understand if you don't want to reply to that. Like said in many topics, it took time for people to get used to KYC process and this is bit more sensitive information as KYC information you have already, address, personal details, used payment methods. I hope more casinos would use that rolling 180 days period instead lifetime, not sure is it ok for UK but at least it is for MGA.

I can honestly say we have requested it recently from a large chunk of our player base. And to be even more honest, we are getting many account closures due to this. In fact we are worried about non experienced customers because there are customers that deposit their 10 quid a week just looking for a good time that we’re having to ask for such info.

We’ve tried complaining to the authorities but we get the Talk to the hand or risk a fine. Which we’d rather not do. It’s ridiculous. And again. We’ve not been given instructions on what to look out for, other than “even if a player shows you 150k withdrawals from another casino”. That’s not enough for it to be accepted.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Unfortunately players will receive more of these requests in the near future, but trust me - it is only for the good for the industry in general.
...
Unfortunately, it is going to be good for the rogue outfits where players have no protection. Most people loath this sort of intrusion into their privacy, and will just close their accounts and patronize casinos not based in the EU or UK.
 
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