Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

The Brexit disaster that thusfar has been untold.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I am available for professional Photoshop work, by the way.

 

[mack341]

Tackling a countrywide shortage of strong pickled onions could also be another policy for keir to get his teeth into love to see that debated in parliament

 

[mack341]

Edit

 

[mack341]

Edit

 

[mack341]

Ah no it's gone repost mad again, sorry for the edits

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Mad forum skillz there mack

 

[mack341]

Mad forum skillz there mack

This will sound mad, i'm using my xbox controller to type posts that and the xbox browser over wifi and it's lag central.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Six months in and the news for UK business is not good, with just 6% saying their trade with the EU has increased, versus 31% saying it had decreased. (I guess the 'good news' there, if you can call it that, is that just over 50% said there had been no change.)

There's also the secondary story that a lot of UK businesses are creating EU based operations, moving jobs and tax revenue to the EU, as it's so much easier to trade within the EU than from outside it.




Decent thread here:

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Iron Maiden frontman Bruce Dickinson, who voted for Brexit, is frustrated that leaving the EU means that the UK is now being treated as if it has left the EU.

Exceptionalism writ large.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This one has been bubbling under for a couple of months already but looks as if it will shortly be coming to a head, a terrible shortage of truck drivers to keep UK supermarkets stocked, due to a mass exodus of EU drivers back to the bloc as working in the UK is now such an absolute ballache for them.

Now to be clear, no one's talking here about supermarkets literally running out of things to buy, but rather 'rolling shortages' of specific lines depending on which part of the supply chain is getting snagged up or is short of drivers at any particular time.

Also, truck drivers themselves are having a truly torrid time at the moment, particularly in Kent, which isn't exactly making it an appealing occupation.

If anyone has any good Brexit news, please feel free to add it to this thread to keep things balanced out.

(Although the Davis Downside Dossier is currently at 200 downsides versus 14 upsides, so I appreciate it might be tricky.)

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[mack341]

The rolling good news is we don't have to do as that new bossy boots woman says, and to date this year will have not passed 5 billion net from uk tax funds to the EU for the membership fee,

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The rolling good news is we don't have to do as that new bossy boots woman says, and to date this year will have not passed 5 billion net from uk tax funds to the EU for the membership fee,

So on point (1) An entirely emotional response and incorrect since we never had to do what the 'bossy boots woman says' anyway, and on point (2) Utterly ignoring the massive hit the the UK economy has taken from Brexit that has already eclipsed every single penny we've ever paid in over the years.

This has always been, still remains, and always shall be the problem with Brexit, it collapses into nothing in the face of reality.

Project Fear becomes Project Reality, and the sunny uplands turn out to be a dingy field with an old rusty tractor in it.

 

[mack341]

So on point (1) An entirely emotional response and incorrect since we never had to do what the 'bossy boots woman says' anyway, and on point (2) Utterly ignoring the massive hit the the UK economy has taken from Brexit that has already eclipsed every single penny we've ever paid in over the years.

This has always been, still remains, and always shall be the problem with Brexit, it collapses into nothing in the face of reality.

Project Fear becomes Project Reality, and the sunny uplands turn out to be a dingy field with an old rusty tractor in it.

With one or two major adjustments we'd still likely be in, uk tax receipts are down more than 10 billion due to leaving?

Brexit wasn't in the main based on how well the govt would perform with the new freedoms, you want to be optimistic that they will make good decisions, also time frame. Remember too the eu is not static and will want more powers given over to it, that's just the way things have gone over the last 30 years, so why would that change, creeping centralisation.

Not being funny but I'd bet you'd personally have no interest in the iom paying the eu to part run the island, on the basis of being content with the way things are there, in reality and principle it should be no different for the mainland uk. The arguments in favour of returning don't make sense, sounds like financial blackmail seeing as we secured a free trade deal, what could be better, unless that is the eu and uk remainer civil service are making everything difficult to try to force a return, or scare others contemplating getting out.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

But that's an incredibly reductive way of looking at it. The IOM pays into a reciprocal health agreement with the UK, we pay into some international banking thingy I forget the name of because it's worth us being a member of it, and on that note we have to obey so many rules and regulations that we don't get to write, the phrase 'drowning in red tape' scarcely comes into it, because we're part of the international banking community.

Point is, countries around the world pay into and contribute towards all sorts of other organisations and bodies, many of which write rules that have to be followed whether you like it or not.

Let's take the much hallowed No Deal Brexit and 'WTO rules are fine for the UK', hey, there's a clue in the name, WTO Rules.

That's what modern internationalism looks like, the days of jumping into a boat and claiming a foreign land as our own are long gone, and yet Brexit somehow seems to be romanticising the 'age of empire' and that leaving the EU was a part of making the UK stronger again on the international stage, when all it's done is diminish us.

And as for whether or not the UK got a 'free trade deal', it depends what you mean by that, we got a deal free of tariffs (which works both ways of course), but we certainly didn't get a deal free of bureaucracy and red tape and customs checks and mountains of paperwork and extra expenses and inconveniences. (Hence the EU trade figures I linked above.)

And then you get clowns like Bruce Dickinson literally saying, 'I voted for Brexit and to end freedom of movement but I didn't think it'd apply to me.'

 

[mack341]

If you're paying a net fee out of tax for donkey's years you expect a return, in terms of living standards/quality of life attributable to what the eu have been doing in brussels, there wasn't for the average person. When you start to look at things in terms of society large problems they've been getting worse, the govt can't say our hands are tied by the eu, no more buck passing, should be better for our democracy and accountability.

That would be the same moving forward for the iom, a partnership/law sharing with the eu would unlikely result in improved quality of life, which ultimately is the point of politics and policies. [ with westminster and central govt costing a lot of money as well ]
If scotland get another indy vote, there may be strong media calls for another eu vote, I'm sure.

 

[dunover]

Brexit means England are now allowed to beat the Germans at football and where the f*ck are the French and Dutch and Portuguese in the Euros? I think your list of 200-bad vs. 14 good Brexit outcomes should be 200-15. It's only fair, I demand a recount.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I think we concluded this discussion and finally won the argument London 2 Brussels 0.

Brexit Wins!

Ad Finitonomenon

(better say I know Brussels is Belgium but they were all rooting for them and we know who really controls it)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Lord David Frost, our Chief EU Negotiator and architect of our amazing Oven Ready Brexit Deal, asks Elton John to do his job for him because he's really shit at it.

I mean, does it not bother anyone that this guy is clearly quite spectacularly incompetent, in over his head, and has no earthly idea what the fuck it is he's doing?

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[ChopleyIOM]

Brexit means England are now allowed to beat the Germans at football and where the f*ck are the French and Dutch and Portuguese in the Euros? I think your list of 200-bad vs. 14 good Brexit outcomes should be 200-15. It's only fair, I demand a recount.

It wasn't the most amazing game in the world but I enjoyed watching it and England deserved the win.

Pity we couldn't be as gracious in victory as some Germans were in defeat.

 

[dunover]

Lord David Frost, our Chief EU Negotiator and architect of our amazing Oven Ready Brexit Deal, asks Elton John to do his job for him because he's really shit at it.

I mean, does it not bother anyone that this guy is clearly quite spectacularly incompetent, in over his head, and has no earthly idea what the fuck it is he's doing?

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View attachment 156218

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If the poor Europeans have been spared the likes of Elton John, then that's 'positive' #16 in Brexit outcomes - for them.

 

[mack341]

I've got a solution for the rockers, simply hire the crew and roadies from an eu member state - if the eu won't sanction the visas. Until something better can be done, frost might not be fantastic but the mps are lame too, esp facing the trickster eu, they're not playing cricket here.

 

[dunover]

I've got a solution for the rockers, simply hire the crew and roadies from an eu member state - if the eu won't sanction the visas. Until something better can be done, frost might not be fantastic but the mps are lame too, esp facing the trickster eu, they're not playing cricket here.

The Irish actually do have a cricket team.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I've got a solution for the rockers, simply hire the crew and roadies from an eu member state - if the eu won't sanction the visas. Until something better can be done, frost might not be fantastic but the mps are lame too, esp facing the trickster eu, they're not playing cricket here.

With respect mack you're missing the real problem here, big acts such as Elton John and Iron Maiden can 'money' their way through the problems, it's smaller acts that are getting absolutely shafted by this, the kind of small-mid size band/artist that travels across many countries, performing many gigs, and they take everything they need with them, and often do a lot of their own 'crew' style work as well, it simply isn't possible for them to hire the people they need on the continent, especially from one country to the next, for example a crew hired in France won't want to travel to Spain for a few gigs, being paid peanuts.

UK artists have been thrown under the bus, along with UK fishermen, UK farmers, Northern Ireland, thousands of SMEs up and down the UK, and so on - in fact, it's getting pretty crowded under that bus.

 

[dunover]

With respect mack you're missing the real problem here, big acts such as Elton John and Iron Maiden can 'money' their way through the problems, it's smaller acts that are getting absolutely shafted by this, the kind of small-mid size band/artist that travels across many countries, performing many gigs, and they take everything they need with them, and often do a lot of their own 'crew' style work as well, it simply isn't possible for them to hire the people they need on the continent, especially from one country to the next, for example a crew hired in France won't want to travel to Spain for a few gigs, being paid peanuts.

UK artists have been thrown under the bus, along with UK fishermen, UK farmers, Northern Ireland, thousands of SMEs up and down the UK, and so on - in fact, it's getting pretty crowded under that bus.

Ahh.... thank f*ck for ASDA who have got them!