Brexit - whats the difference.....

[mack341]

I won't waste my time typing the many, many positives of the EU, nor that the laws of the EU were in almost every single case approved by the EU's elected members, and that we were at the top of the table throughout.

I will simply put it this way; the Brexit campaign was based on lies and run by liars. Liars who have variously been found in contempt of parliament, have links to Russian oligarchs, who run hedge funds who will benefit massively from us crashing out without trade deals, based on a referendum which had no legal force and has been found to have been gamed from the start by foreign actors. The current government has only this morning told people they should return to working in offices at the height of a pandemic, simply to protect the economy, not out of any change in the medical advice. Their own medical advisor said only yesterday there is no reason to amend the work from home advice. Johnson this morning said "We listen to advice, but we make the decisions."

And you put your trust in this shower.

You Brexiteers can own this. If it works out, great. I'll be shocked, but I'll be happy.

But admit it to yourself; the course is insanity. Steer away from the right-wing media, look directly at reports from international sources. We're a fucking laughing stock of a nation with a currency now being treated as that of an emerging nation.

I did say that I don't have massive faith in our leaders and decision makers to deliver on their goals/speeches, but the brexit vote was not about that. It's two sets of politicians making laws, one you can theoretically control/directly influence through democracy and the other you cannot.

I bet if every country had a referendum you'd be surprised at the results, Poland has just re-elected a president who's not exactly the biggest fan of the EU. And it's only going to grow if the EU go down their United states of europe road, [which influential people like verhofstadt push for] centralising more power from the various member states.

It could be that the EU has been blamed for things that the UK govt could have handled differently/better, either in the veto stage or implementation. [due to incompetence or not being bothered]

 

[Slottery]

Just for outsider is bit weird to follow this whole show, finding some news and negotiations (or that these don't seem to exist) quite entertaining.

For some UK peeps i know, it seems not be really great thing as it's not that easy anymore to spend most of the year in Europe where you bought a property years ago for your retirement days and seem that in few months you are threatened like any other 3rd country people with Visa requirements and max stays and many other day to day things like health care and others.

Hope everything goes well, just wonder these negotiations where no much seem to happen together with some weird requests to re-negotiate something what's agreed years ago. Probably not much different for me to travel UK 2-5 times a year for short period.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

For some UK peeps i know, it seems not be really great thing as it's not that easy anymore to spend most of the year in Europe where you bought a property years ago for your retirement days and seem that in few months you are threatened like any other 3rd country people with Visa requirements and max stays and many other day to day things like health care and others.

Sounds like more PROJECT FEAR to me.

Oh, wait.......

 

[goatwack]

I mean he may have had a disastrous latter half to his tenure & been a War Criminal but Tony Blair makes a somewhat truthful point. Even if just to pipe up and attempt to stay relevant

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Problem is as mentioned these politicians won't back down on their timeframes as it simply won't affect them negatively anyway. I'm all for sticking to a pledge but there are some rather powerful outside factors at play - e.g a global health crisis not seen in 300 years

So it would be nice for the bravado to stop, personally I couldn't care less about 18-30 holidays but most certainly like this shit-show to at least be salvaged to some degree, even if it meant another 12 months. Because what's another 12 months eh, after (what seems like) two decades' worth of wrangling

 

[thr0b]

The simplest way to look at it is right now you have a bunch of rights.

On 1st January, there is nothing to stop the Tory party tearing up every one of those hard-earned rights that doesn’t suit their ideology. They’re in power for four more years. Don’t even consider that they won’t try.

 

[goatwack]

The simplest way to look at it is right now you have a bunch of rights.

On 1st January, there is nothing to stop the Tory party tearing up every one of those hard-earned rights that doesn’t suit their ideology. They’re in power for four more years. Don’t even consider that they won’t try.

I am fully aware that come December the posturing will stop, and our revered leaders will throw us (EU rabble) under the bus, to set an example if anything. Of that I am certain

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A sobering economic assessment from the filthy scaremongering Remoaner left wing rag the, erm, hang on, The Financial Times.

--------------------------------

Britain is about to discover the hard way that while Leavers were sincere in many of their political beliefs about Brexit, their economic arguments were, and are still, a costly and damaging sham.

 

[thr0b]

Sell to the EU today? Easy.
Do it on January 1st?


sunlit uplands.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Looks like TAKING BACK CONTROL to me.

British businesses must be absolutely delighted with the extra £7bn in costs per year (recurring) they'll be saddled with, and all the extra paperwork and administration they'll have to do as well.

Mind you, the total cost of Brexit so far has already exceeded the UK's lifetime contributions to the EU (i.e. between the dates it joined and left), and it's only going to get worse.

 

[thr0b]

Looks like TAKING BACK CONTROL to me.

British businesses must be absolutely delighted with the extra £7bn in costs per year (recurring) they'll be saddled with, and all the extra paperwork and administration they'll have to do as well.

Mind you, the total cost of Brexit so far has already exceeded the UK's lifetime contributions to the EU (i.e. between the dates it joined and left), and it's only going to get worse.

STOP TARKING ARE CONTRY DOWN!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It's stuff like this that's going to be happening on a near daily basis between now and the end of the year.

Nothing massive by itself, nothing earth-shattering, and it'll be done quietly, without fanfare, but add all these changes together, 'The Brexit Of Small Things' as it's known as (I say again, no one ever claimed it would be 'THE END OF THE WORLD'), and it all points towards everyone's lives getting shitter, and more inconvenient, and things costing more, right across the board.

Endless downsides, no upsides, unless you're a massively wealthy disaster capitalist.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is a good, and brief summary. The Leave campaign could never tell the truth, because if they did, they wouldn't have won.

 

[Kroffe]

This is a good, and brief summary. The Leave campaign could never tell the truth, because if they did, they wouldn't have won.

View attachment 137131

Even with all that complaining he still rates brexit 2/2.

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[goatwack]

It must be tiring being so right all the time, even four years after the fact

Just surprised our all-knowing Remainer friends envisaged a seamless transition and trade nirvana overnight!

Might have to put those croissants on hold for a while guys

 

[Slottery]

These things shouldn't really come as surprise to anyone who is old enough to vote. It sounds kind of logical that you are not part of these agreements anymore after you decided yourself to leave them. Yes, bit more paperwork and some extra costs which didn't exist in EU but what else could have be expected? Now there is freedom to make these wanted trade deals and control everything without having to listen EU, that's what people voted i guess?

 

[thr0b]

It must be tiring being so right all the time, even four years after the fact

Just surprised our all-knowing Remainer friends envisaged a seamless transition and trade nirvana overnight!

Might have to put those croissants on hold for a while guys

we didn’t. the Brexit campaign said all would be peaches and cream. It promised oven ready trade deals. It promised the German car manufacturers would ensure we were okay. It promised that life would be better.

Own the shit you voted for. Don’t try passing the buck to those who said it would be shit now it’s turning out to be.

 

[paul7388]

Me personally i would have chose remain.

But the vote was done at a time when there was mass hysteria about immigration. Many would have voted leave even if told they would be a lot worse off.

But also don't suddenly think that the ones that voted leave to take back control of things thought they would be so much better off they knew things would be tougher for a good while but hopefully after time the country would recover and be better off.

But now it kind of does not matter so much. The handling and locking down the country for so long for Coronavirus will have done more damage to peoples lives and the economy than Brexit ever will.

 

[thr0b]

But now it kind of does not matter so much. The handling and locking down the country for so long for Coronavirus will have done more damage to peoples lives and the economy than Brexit ever will.

Which is why it makes absolutely no sense that Johnson didn’t extend the transition when the option was there. It would’ve protected jobs at a time of crisis. There was absolutely no good reason not to do so.

What was in it for him to not extend it?

One day there’ll be a public enquiry into all of this. And I think criminal trials will result.

 

[goatwack]

These things shouldn't really come as surprise to anyone who is old enough to vote. It sounds kind of logical that you are not part of these agreements anymore after you decided yourself to leave them. Yes, bit more paperwork and some extra costs which didn't exist in EU but what else could have be expected? Now there is freedom to make these wanted trade deals and control everything without having to listen EU, that's what people voted i guess?

That's the problem you see. Half the country were duped, and far to stupid to make up their own minds, we were hoodwinked by Project Fear in some hallucinatory trance whereby didn't know what we were doing....such as voting to leave the EU in all its unadulterated glory.

We also never for one second thought rebuilding Trade Agreements would take a long time, probably the best part of a generation, thinking blindly that everything would be BETTER OVERNIGHT!

So now we find ourselves flummoxed at our own stupidity. Shucks!

Me especially, I must be the thickest c*** out there wanting to sabotage my own citizenship for shits and giggles, but then imagine not wanting to sell out principles for the easy life behind the EU curtain. Tsk!

Who knew leaving the EU could be fraught with so much difficulty. I would like to rescind my original vote if at all possible, I clearly didn't know what I was doing. The comparisons with Trump voters is just all too real for me!

 

[paul7388]

Which is why it makes absolutely no sense that Johnson didn’t extend the transition when the option was there. It would’ve protected jobs at a time of crisis. There was absolutely no good reason not to do so.

What was in it for him to not extend it?

One day there’ll be a public enquiry into all of this. And I think criminal trials will result.

The jobs are gone tho. Things go tits up then they can blame it on the virus.

I think it should have been extended. But we will have to see what happens, Remember tho this virus has destroyed a lot in Europe as well. Some countries there can no longer afford to piss about making deals harder for themselves. So we might find soon that things do not turn out as bad as we thought.

Like ourselves the unemployment has shot up through Europe and businesses are folding. There will now be pressure from some countries to do what is best for everyone not just to go F*** the UK.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

We also never for one second thought rebuilding Trade Agreements would take a long time, probably the best part of a generation, thinking blindly that everything would be BETTER OVERNIGHT!

So for example then goaty, given that the entire Leave campaign was essentially predicated on 'the easiest trade deal in history', 'the exact same benefits as we have now', 'they need us more than we need them', 'the German car manufacturers/French cheese makers/etc will never allow no deal to happen' and so on and so forth - you looked at that and thought, 'I think all these people are wrong and it will actually be very difficult to negotiate new trade agreements, possibly even taking a generation, but I will vote Leave anyway, despite the fact my personal feeling is that everyone advocating for it on the basis of trade benefits is mistaken'?

EDIT - I mean literally no one in the Leave campaign argued for it on the basis of all the shit that we're seeing now, did they?

 

[goatwack]

So for example then goaty, given that the entire Leave campaign was essentially predicated on 'the easiest trade deal in history', 'the exact same benefits as we have now', 'they need us more than we need them', 'the German car manufacturers/French cheese makers/etc will never allow no deal to happen' and so on and so forth - you looked at that and thought, 'I think all these people are wrong and it will actually be very difficult to negotiate new trade agreements, possibly even taking a generation, but I will vote Leave anyway, despite the fact my personal feeling is that everyone advocating for it on the basis of trade benefits is mistaken'?

EDIT - I mean literally no one in the Leave campaign argued for it on the basis of all the shit that we're seeing now, did they?

That may have been the official tagline and hard-sell, I also believe many 'voters' saw through the political bluster and voted Leave despite the impending financial hardship, yes

And I never believed those advocated we remain are mistaken in their doomsday projection, no

 

[mack341]

So for example then goaty, given that the entire Leave campaign was essentially predicated on 'the easiest trade deal in history', 'the exact same benefits as we have now', 'they need us more than we need them', 'the German car manufacturers/French cheese makers/etc will never allow no deal to happen' and so on and so forth - you looked at that and thought, 'I think all these people are wrong and it will actually be very difficult to negotiate new trade agreements, possibly even taking a generation, but I will vote Leave anyway, despite the fact my personal feeling is that everyone advocating for it on the basis of trade benefits is mistaken'?

EDIT - I mean literally no one in the Leave campaign argued for it on the basis of all the shit that we're seeing now, did they?

I don't think it was ever cast as 'the easiest trade deal in history' we are negotiating with idealogues, there was always a chance they'd ignore the self-inflicted harm to their own industries in pursuit of damaging the uk's economy because we voted to leave.

They have agreed free trade deals with japan and canada but won't do the same deal with the uk because we are physically nearer to them


Guy Verhofstadt warns MPs of 'two decade' Brexit ratification - bbc 2018

Brexit could take as long as two decades to get EU approval unless the two sides agree a "precise" blueprint in October, Guy Verhofstadt has said.

 

[thr0b]

That’s... not true.

The UK team has been tasked with cakeism. The Tory government forgets we are a third country. The EU owe us nothing. The EU is protecting the interests of the EU, not the insignificant island off its coast.

The EU is doing exactly what it was set up to do; protect its members as part of a wider union.

Leave the union, don’t expect the benefits.

The trade deal the EU has with e.g Canada and Japan took many years to negotiate and are still not as good as the deals member states have with each other.

 

[mack341]

That’s... not true.

The UK team has been tasked with cakeism. The Tory government forgets we are a third country. The EU owe us nothing. The EU is protecting the interests of the EU, not the insignificant island off its coast.

The EU is doing exactly what it was set up to do; protect its members as part of a wider union.

Leave the union, don’t expect the benefits.

The trade deal the EU has with e.g Canada and Japan took many years to negotiate and are still not as good as the deals member states have with each other.

what's not true?

We've mentioned to them the free trade deals with canada and japan, and they said no can do even though they export more to us than japan and canada [eu exports to japan 64 billion euros; uk 372 billion] so they must want tariffs on that €372...hence shooting themselves in the foot