New Slot Announcement Bonanza by Big Time Gaming

[goatwack]

Whether he's right or wrong, I'd say he's pretty intelligent and versed in whatever he specializes in. Far from trying to look intelligent

 

[trancemonkey]

He's trying to look intelligent. Nothing of the codes above proof anything as trancemo key said.

All I can see is different zips from slots' code which you can btw easy make up.

I disagree... I think he's almost certainly intelligent. My only concern is that he hasn't yet shown any proof... I know that he's suggested there are multiple levels of obfuscation, but as test houses are given all source code, if he can see something is wrong, then so can they (or at least they should). So he's also suggesting the test houses are complicit...

 

[RedPhase]

None of that code is proof of anything... which part, exactly, are you suggesting is proof?

So far, I've seen nothing in any of the code you've posted that proves anything. If you believe there is proof there, by all means find it and post it... I look forward to the proof

The function where it returns s also proves nothing - game servers have to, legally, track your play which includes balance - otherwise how would a game know whether you had enough money to press start or not? They have to record all games played for game recovery and game history purposes...

Of course, I could be missing something, but I havent seen anything that proves anything so far, and posting snippets of code also doesn't prove anything because, as you know, you need to see the whole picture and be able to trace what everything is doing to prove anything.

And I'll repeat, if you can prove someone is breaking the rules, I'll be the first one in line backing you when you report it to the UKGC.

BTW you said you found this from the server, which means you must have hacked the server. And if you have, then you have the entire code. So you must be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. All you've shown so far is that logging occurs and that different reels can be used, or the same reels with different weights. All perfectly legal.

I prefer the term, scavenged their servers, with legal use of highly customized python scripts, honoring the gentleman rules of not bashing said servers.
Furthermore I would be happy to share more of the code, but it would be in private. There is no point in google crawling and indexing IP material.
Lastly, I would appreciate your elaboration on what constitutes, breaking the rules. The stepping mechanics you refer to, I am not familiar with, this being my first time on the internet playing slots for amusement merely.

And to the gentleman

He's trying to look intelligent. Nothing of the codes above proof anything as trancemo key said.

All I can see is different zips from slots' code which you can btw easy make up.

There are all kinds of smart in this world, I am by no means in the front nor at prodigy level. The only smartness I take pride in, is acknowledging I have loads to learn yet in life, and that humbles me

That and, I really don't need to pretend I understand coding, it's like a doctor pretending to know anatomy. I should hope anyone doing this professionally at a high clearance level, know what they are doing. I do appreciate your input though.

Have a nice evening all.

 

[sueyh]

So what @RedPhase is saying is BTG is controlling the outcome of the slot?
But, why?
The game is programmed as TRTP 96%, it gives 4% edge to the casino without BTG controlling, so there is no point for BTG is controlling the outcome for the casino.

If BTG is controlling the outcome of the spin, so no players will have horrible RTP like 60%, or no players will have very luck RTP like 150%? But why?
Why BTG want everyone to have around 96% RTP?
It really doesn't matter to BTG and casinos that someone has 150% RTP when other person has 60% RTP.

They want to compensate so players will be back?
Well, last months and this month I played Bonanza 10000-12500 xp points-$10000-$12500 wagering on Bonanza on VS on 60 cents bet, my RTP for Bonanza for last month and this month, both are around 85%. I don't see any compensation there.

I'm not saying BTG is honest company or anything like that.
I really don't trust their words regarding to Bonanza has "sky is the limit." potential.
I just don't see the point for BTG to control the outcome.

 

[snorky510238]

I don’t think he has actually mentioned Btg it just happens to be in the Bonanza thread.

It’s more about your play being tracked and certain outcomes being available/unavailable based on your stats. There is a very good reason though why a provider would want people to hit the trtp. It brings trust that what it says on the label is happening in reality. You will have peaks and troughs around that rtp but the most important thing from the casino/providers point is if everyone hits their rtp nobody gets fed up and they RETAIN THEIR CUSTOMER BASE. The thing that is of upmost importance to them so yes their is a reason why they would care who wins and who loses.

 

[trancemonkey]

I don’t think he has actually mentioned Btg it just happens to be in the Bonanza thread.

It’s more about your play being tracked and certain outcomes being available/unavailable based on your stats. There is a very good reason though why a provider would want people to hit the trtp. It brings trust that what it says on the label is happening in reality. You will have peaks and troughs around that rtp but the most important thing from the casino/providers point is if everyone hits their rtp nobody gets fed up and they RETAIN THEIR CUSTOMER BASE. The thing that is of upmost importance to them so yes their is a reason why they would care who wins and who loses.

I don't believe there is any proof so far that outcomes are based on your stats...

 

[sueyh]

I don’t think he has actually mentioned Btg it just happens to be in the Bonanza thread.

It’s more about your play being tracked and certain outcomes being available/unavailable based on your stats. There is a very good reason though why a provider would want people to hit the trtp. It brings trust that what it says on the label is happening in reality. You will have peaks and troughs around that rtp but the most important thing from the casino/providers point is if everyone hits their rtp nobody gets fed up and they RETAIN THEIR CUSTOMER BASE. The thing that is of upmost importance to them so yes their is a reason why they would care who wins and who loses.

If what you mean is the game provider can pick some player who has a very horrible RTP on that game like 60%, and decide to give a nice big win to that player to retain him as a customer, yes I can see that possible.

But the issue is there are millions of players out there, and I think it's the waste of the time and resource for the game providers to make sure every players will hit TRTP, I mean without controlling, most players will have RTP that is close to TRTP, because most people will spin millions of spin if they think the game is fun to play.

Sure there are going to be very small percentage of people will have RTP that is much less than TRTP, but to make sure those small percentage people will stay as customers, the game providers spend time and resource to control the outcome? That's not really smart business decision I think.

Another thing is, having RTP that is close to TRTP doesn't mean the player will have a nice big win sometimes to make the player think "I like this game."
I have lifetime RTP of 93% on Gemix, and I had a lot of spins on Gemix, I mean a lot, but the biggest win is 50X.

Though if someone can prove the game provider control the outcome of the spin for streamers for advertisement benefit, I think that's really possible.

 

[RedPhase]

....

Though if someone can prove the game provider control the outcome of the spin for streamers for advertisement benefit, I think that's really possible.

I might argue, that it isn't a question of, can it be done, but would it:

A - be beneficial to risk exposure?
B - not make more sense to provide streamers with a customized version for them to play?

 

[pinnit2014]

The thought of streamer specific games will be news to Playford’s ears

 

[Jono777]

*yawn*....*stretch*, "Morning All"

Sooooo........Is it rigged or not?

 

[trancemonkey]

*yawn*....*stretch*, "Morning All"

Sooooo........Is it rigged or not?

That was a hell of a lie in

 

[torors]

I don't know how popular Gold Lab is, but we managed to datamine some irrefutable floor math from it.

Cold session, no spins tried or run.
...SNIPPED FOR BREVITY...

What you've shown here is the XHR response from the game servers. This is data used for driving the display and UI logic. This is available for everyone to see if they bring up their browser’s developer tools and look under the “network” tab. I really can’t see how this proves anything claimed, please elaborate.

As for the providers needing to see your balance... well, you can’t accept a bet if you don’t know this crucial detail, can you?

I’ve looked closely at quite a few online slot providers / distributors, but the one I’m most familiar with is NextGen’s (now SG) GDM (game development module? There’s very little literature available online). When you launch a GDM game (pre-Quickfire Bonanza, for example), the casino opens a new session for your “wallet ID”. Could be a hash of your e-mail or whatever, something that maps to a value that both the casino and the operator can uniquely identify. From what I gather, the operator only has access to this hash of that value, and nothing else that identifies you as a player (If you open the same game from a different casino, the provider sees a different unique hash). This session now has access to your casino wallet to place bets. On every request for a spin with a given bet value from your game client, the provider backend checks your wallet (which it can identify thanks to the session opened previously) to see if it has the balance to place that bet, and if so, accepts it, rolls the dice, and returns your winnings back to your wallet.

These transactions (bets out, winnings in) are probably guarded by a transactional database that “locks” writes or reads while doing updates, to avoid race conditions if playing multiple games simultaneously, for example.

All dice rolls / game logic are hosted by the provider, and not the casino or game developer. This has the added benefit that the RNG is seeded by an almost-impossible-to-guess amount of entropy by all the players out there placing bets. Even if you somehow managed to find the PRNG algorithm used, AND the initial seed, you would still have to find how fast the RNG is cycling by guessing how many clients are hitting it, and at what rate. And still, most RNGs in use have some sort of internal background cycling that is seeded from another source (weather, keyboard presses, Donald Trump tweets, you name it)

Once a random value is chosen, the value is passed on to the game engine to produce a result. This of course varies wildly from game to game. The value could be used to produce reel stops, or simply pull a result from a predefined pool of results, using the random value as an index. The result is then passed on to your game client, which will display all the bells and whistles.

As long as the maths behind the game engine and the RNG is solid, neither casinos nor operators/developers have to employ dirty tricks to make money off their games. You simply can’t win (in the long run).

 

[dunover]

I might argue, that it isn't a question of, can it be done, but would it:

A - be beneficial to risk exposure?
B - not make more sense to provide streamers with a customized version for them to play?

Aha! That streamer and affiliate RTP maths setting.

 

[RedPhase]

What you've shown here is the XHR response from the game servers. This is data used for driving the display and UI logic. This is available for everyone to see if they bring up their browser’s developer tools and look under the “network” tab. I really can’t see how this proves anything claimed, please elaborate.

As for the providers needing to see your balance... well, you can’t accept a bet if you don’t know this crucial detail, can you?

I’ve looked closely at quite a few online slot providers / distributors, but the one I’m most familiar with is NextGen’s (now SG) GDM (game development module? There’s very little literature available online). When you launch a GDM game (pre-Quickfire Bonanza, for example), the casino opens a new session for your “wallet ID”. Could be a hash of your e-mail or whatever, something that maps to a value that both the casino and the operator can uniquely identify. From what I gather, the operator only has access to this hash of that value, and nothing else that identifies you as a player (If you open the same game from a different casino, the provider sees a different unique hash). This session now has access to your casino wallet to place bets. On every request for a spin with a given bet value from your game client, the provider backend checks your wallet (which it can identify thanks to the session opened previously) to see if it has the balance to place that bet, and if so, accepts it, rolls the dice, and returns your winnings back to your wallet.

These transactions (bets out, winnings in) are probably guarded by a transactional database that “locks” writes or reads while doing updates, to avoid race conditions if playing multiple games simultaneously, for example.

All dice rolls / game logic are hosted by the provider, and not the casino or game developer. This has the added benefit that the RNG is seeded by an almost-impossible-to-guess amount of entropy by all the players out there placing bets. Even if you somehow managed to find the PRNG algorithm used, AND the initial seed, you would still have to find how fast the RNG is cycling by guessing how many clients are hitting it, and at what rate. And still, most RNGs in use have some sort of internal background cycling that is seeded from another source (weather, keyboard presses, Donald Trump tweets, you name it)

Once a random value is chosen, the value is passed on to the game engine to produce a result. This of course varies wildly from game to game. The value could be used to produce reel stops, or simply pull a result from a predefined pool of results, using the random value as an index. The result is then passed on to your game client, which will display all the bells and whistles.

As long as the maths behind the game engine and the RNG is solid, neither casinos nor operators/developers have to employ dirty tricks to make money off their games. You simply can’t win (in the long run).

If you are suggesting, that I based my findings in this thread upon, right clicking, choosing inspect elements on a homepage, clicked the network pane and then copy pasted some random code snippets in, to somehow stir the pot, then I am afraid we are wasting each others time.

As for the providers needing to see your balance... well, you can’t accept a bet if you don’t know this crucial detail, can you?

The balance issue I covered wasn't pertaining to the general balance check before bets were placed, it's implicit, that such a mechanic is in place and justified. I was referring to the frame of your total balance on your account, with any given casino portal, you've logged on to, AFTER you've allocated credits to the slot you wish to play.

In other words, some casinos prompt you to allocate x amount of credits you wish to spend on a game/slot, before it loads up. This separates your main fundings from the fundings you've specified to use in a separate gamesession, achieving two things:

1. you are controlling the amount you deem "expendable"
2. you are protecting information that the game provider has no rightful justification to possess.

A game provider has no business knowing if your balance is 5k total, before playing their game. Or that you've only allocated 50 usd of the 5k that's in your account. That could lead to, as discussed in other forums outside ours, profile targeting, leading to specific tailored game sessions based on your balance, potentially leading to a different game experience and outcome.

A website identifying your OS platform and browser application is one thing, ensuring you are redirected to match and give you the most accurate experience, but this is entirely different. That balance is like your bank account, sacred.

If you are tanking gas, the stall PBS will probe and check for a minimum balance, that your bank validates, before it let's you fill up the tank. It is not provided your entire bank account balance in the proces.


I will refrain from commenting further on this thread and focus on my exchange via dm with trance monkey.

Thank you all for your time and happy gaming.

 

[snorky510238]

As if finding the D wasn’t hard enough. The G has now become invisible.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I will refrain from commenting further on this thread and focus on my exchange via dm with trance monkey.

Too bad... Even if we don't understand everything I think I speak for quite some people that we still like to be "in" on the discussion.

 

[nutnut]

back to actual thread.......

WTF has happened to this game since DOA release. ive not seen a bonus at all and base game is dead. has everyone left it for DOA so game is just extra dog shit???

 

[smart_croatia]

back to actual thread.......

WTF has happened to this game since DOA release. ive not seen a bonus at all and base game is dead. has everyone left it for DOA so game is just extra dog shit???

got bonus few hours ago with retigger for foken 40x so you are not missing a lot

 

[CC07]

I’ve had 1 bonus in 3 days and it paid 80x on a 20p bet

 

[goatwack]

I've had 0 bonuses over God knows how many days

I've found not playing it to be very cost-effective

 

[nutnut]

Oh well nice to not be alone in the being rinsed dry.

Even gave DOA ago, jesus that game is awful for me

 

[snorky510238]

Is anyone else having disconnection problems playing this and other Btg games on a mobile? DHV and Chilli have always been bad but now Bonanza is the worst of all.

I have never had much trouble with Netent but DOA2 is dreadful also, every 5 spins or so. I really enjoy the slots but if this carries on I will pack it in. It’s impossible to enjoy it when this happens.

 

[CC07]

Is anyone else having disconnection problems playing this and other Btg games on a mobile? DHV and Chilli have always been bad but now Bonanza is the worst of all.

I have never had much trouble with Netent but DOA2 is dreadful also, every 5 spins or so. I really enjoy the slots but if this carries on I will pack it in. It’s impossible to enjoy it when this happens.

I had a few “your internet connection is slow please reload” messages on DOA2 yesterday and the odd laggy spin on Bonanza but seemed fine today. Most of my issues were at Trada. Where have you been playing?

 

[Full tilt]

Had this 1438X hit this afternoon helped by 4 ways of 5 diamonds at 13X which paid £520 alone. My best feature on bonza for a year.

 

[geordiecolin]

I've just caught up with this thread and I'm gutted that Redface has abandoned us

I have not touched Bonanza since my 4k x hit