Resolved Betway deceit

[wobble33]

Hi tofu23,

After an investigation into your account we've found the following:

* You made a first deposit of $200 on the 06/04/08 at 01:55 CET
* You were given a Casino Welcome Bonus of $200 on the same day
* You purchased Casino chips of the same amount and wagered $1,200 on French Roulette and $633.80 on "Ladies Night" slot machine.
* You then made a withdrawal of $116 on the 02/05/08 which was sent to you on the same day.

The above wagering released a total of $27 of your Bonus Cash and converted it to Real cash.

Due to the updates and changes made to the site the system did not automatically calculate the bonus amount which is why you didn't receive any cash.

This has now been rectified and the amount credited to your account.

We will also be reviewing the misleading T&C and simplifying the wording.

I hope the above clarifies your query. Please feel free to contact betway at any time or post any further queries you may have in this forum.

Best regards,

betway support

hi.
it seems to me that the problem was with the system here. "Due to the updates and changes made to the site the system did not automatically calculate the bonus amount which is why you didn't receive any cash". looks like its normal ez bonus rules, and the whole $1000 is cashable when wr is complete? correct me if i am wrong here please...

 

[lauram]

Think thats right there is your cash amount under is your bonus amount.
As you playthrough the bonus amount gets less and less with each bet and moves up to your cash amount box. Once the bonus amount is 0 you can cash out at any time. At least thats how i see it and played with other mg with the easy bonus terms.

 

[tofu23]

Due to the updates and changes made to the site the system did not automatically calculate the bonus amount which is why you didn't receive any cash.

This has now been rectified and the amount credited to your account.

Not so fast.

The statements contained by Betway CSRs in the aforementioned emails and the Betway forum representative can be summarised as follows:

1. The WRs can only be completed by funds drawn from the bonus balance - per CSRs emails.

2. The MG bonus system suffered a failure - per Betway forum representative

These respective positions can not be reconciled on the basis of truth.

Having wagered $600 on Slots (100% weighting) and $1,200 French Roulette (50% weighting) does not compute to clearing $27 worth of bonus to cash. $40 sounds more like it.

However, as put in my OP, if it were not for the advice received per CSRs email (which mentioned nothing of bonus system failure) I would not have played French Roulette (for bonus system experimental purposes) where I suffered a $85 loss.

Conservatively, I think the return of my deposit funds is long overdue.

The version of facts so far offered by the respective Betway sources doesn't stack up. Even if there was a bonus system failure you would have to speculate just how many customers were thus adversely affected and in what manner Betway now intends to offer compensation.

I don't believe for a moment that a bonus system failure is the culprit in this matter. That is as polite I'm going to get.

.

 

[betway support]

Not so fast.

The statements contained by Betway CSRs in the aforementioned emails and the Betway forum representative can be summarised as follows:

1. The WRs can only be completed by funds drawn from the bonus balance - per CSRs emails.

2. The MG bonus system suffered a failure - per Betway forum representative

These respective positions can not be reconciled on the basis of truth.

Having wagered $600 on Slots (100% weighting) and $1,200 French Roulette (50% weighting) does not compute to clearing $27 worth of bonus to cash. $40 sounds more like it.

However, as put in my OP, if it were not for the advice received per CSRs email (which mentioned nothing of bonus system failure) I would not have played French Roulette (for bonus system experimental purposes) where I suffered a $85 loss.

Conservatively, I think the return of my deposit funds is long overdue.

The version of facts so far offered by the respective Betway sources doesn't stack up. Even if there was a bonus system failure you would have to speculate just how many customers were thus adversely affected and in what manner Betway now intends to offer compensation.

I don't believe for a moment that a bonus system failure is the culprit in this matter. That is as polite I'm going to get.

.

Hi again tofu23,

Please go to betway.com and look up the Welcome Bonus T&C.

The weighting of slots is indeed 100% but you will also notice there is a formula on the same page which explains exactly how points are calculated.

The weighting for all Roulette games is 10% as stated in the T&C, not 50% as you say above.

Please calculate your bonus using the table displayed and you will get the same result.

It was not the MG Bonus system that suffered any failure, it was ours. You wagered your money on the same day we did the updates therefore there was no way any agent would have known that the bonus system was dysfunctional.

All customer compensations are dealt with on a per case basis as was in your case.

You also received a surplus of $23 with your bonus as a goodwill gesture.

Terms and conditions of any form of Bonus are not subject to interpretation and should be followed as provided.

The agents that replied to you were simply quoting the same T&C as provided.

Best regards,

betway support

 

[lauram]

So in other words stick to a lower deposit of 20 or 40 then when they match this your playthrough for the bonus amount is easier. If you deposit a 1000 you have to lose that 1000 before your 1000 bonus is touched and you can withdraw, At least thats what im getting.

 

[betway support]

So in other words stick to a lower deposit of 20 or 40 then when they match this your playthrough for the bonus amount is easier. If you deposit a 1000 you have to lose that 1000 before your 1000 bonus is touched and you can withdraw, At least thats what im getting.

Hi lauram,

You don't have to lose any money before you withdraw but if you do withdraw you will forfeit your Bonus.

Depositing and claiming a $20 bonus is definitely much easier than a $1,000 bonus for obvious reasons.

We have a range of different players therefore offering a $1,000 Bonus appeals to their playing styles yet the conditions are equal regardless of the amount deposited.

I hope this explains it better

Regards,

betway support

 

[tofu23]

Hi again tofu23,

Please go to betway.com and look up the Welcome Bonus T&C.

The weighting of slots is indeed 100% but you will also notice there is a formula on the same page which explains exactly how points are calculated.

The weighting for all Roulette games is 10% as stated in the T&C, not 50% as you say above.

Please calculate your bonus using the table displayed and you will get the same result.

It was not the MG Bonus system that suffered any failure, it was ours. You wagered your money on the same day we did the updates therefore there was no way any agent would have known that the bonus system was dysfunctional.

All customer compensations are dealt with on a per case basis as was in your case.

You also received a surplus of $23 with your bonus as a goodwill gesture.

Terms and conditions of any form of Bonus are not subject to interpretation and should be followed as provided.

The agents that replied to you were simply quoting the same T&C as provided.

Best regards,

betway support

The Roulette weighting was 50% and I have a screen shot to prove it. I call upon you to present to this Forum the truth as to the exact day that the French Roulette T+Cs weighting was altered to a weighting of 10%.

Yet you continue to prevaricate.

Publically address the issue of the CSRs advice contined in the emails that emphatically claims that WRs can only be met by wagers drawn on the bonus balance.

I wagered money on the strength of that advice. If I had been properly informed that Betway had suffered a system failure I would have acted differently (taken my money and run).

Address the advice contained in the CSRs emails. True or False. Tick the box if you wish.

.

 

[Audioz]

* You make a first deposit (in this case we'll use a 100% up to $1000)
* You email bonus@betway.com with the words Casino Welcome Bonus in the subject field
* betway will match your first deposit with up to $1,000 in Bonus Cash
* This added Bonus cash is added to your Bonus Balance not your Real money balance
* Your Bonus Balance may not be withdrawn but your Cash Balance may be withdrawn at any time

Maybe you should quote the correct text from your site!?

Because i've found this:

"# You are not allowed to withdraw your initial deposit before you have played through the bonus.
# You have to play through your Bonus 30 times before you can withdraw."

 

[betway support]

The Roulette weighting was 50% and I have a screen shot to prove it. I call upon you to present to this Forum the truth as to the exact day that the French Roulette T+Cs weighting was altered to a weighting of 10%.

Yet you continue to prevaricate.

Publically address the issue of the CSRs advice contined in the emails that emphatically claims that WRs can only be met by wagers drawn on the bonus balance.

I wagered money on the strength of that advice. If I had been properly informed that Betway had suffered a system failure I would have acted differently (taken my money and run).

Address the advice contained in the CSRs emails. True or False. Tick the box if you wish.

.

Hi tofu23,

Please post the screenshot in this forum if possible. If indeed you are correct, I will compensate you accordingly.

Best regards,

betway support

 

[chuchu59]

Based on Tofu's version, surely someone in Betway goofed up. However, although wrong advice was given, playing French Roulette was a personal decision and while the casino may give out a free chip as a gesture of goodwill it should not be asked to refund the whole loss incurred in this game. I believe there were also other games like slots that also contribute 100% to the WRs so there are other alternatives to clear the bonus.

 

[maxd]

Please post the screenshot in this forum if possible.

Tofu, if you have problems posting that screenshot just email it to me and I'll see that it (a) gets posted and (b) gets forwarded to betway support. If that's the way to solve this let's do it and be done with it.

 

[uungy]

You can find it here, cached on the 12th May 2008

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Google doesnt lie :notworthy

 

[SlotMonster]

Just to make it easier

 

[SlotMonster]

And top part of their T&C

 

[betway support]

Hey tofu23,

With the evidence provided above, we followed up an investigation.

It turns out you are right. Weighting was indeed 50% when advertised.

The page displayed above is a cached version and belongs to our old system, therefore, we apologize for the inconvenience caused in this matter.

Once again, we thank all participants of this thread for all the input and suggestions.

tofu23, please be advised that we have credited your account with the missing $20

Regards,

betway support

 

[uungy]

Hey tofu23,

With the evidence provided above, we followed up an investigation.

It turns out you are right. Weighting was indeed 50% when advertised.

The page displayed above is a cached version and belongs to our old system, therefore, we apologize for the inconvenience caused in this matter.

Once again, we thank all participants of this thread for all the input and suggestions.

tofu23, please be advised that we have credited your accounts with the missing $20

Regards,

betway support

I hate saying this, but the following questions need to be addressed:-

1) Why wasnt the "full investigation" done before this. you surely could have checked up on it before?

2) Will all accounts effected (if there are) be sorted the same way?

3) You said "With the evidence provided above", sounds to me you were plain and simply sussed out!

4) How about an extra bonus to tofu23, for all the hassle, when it clearly was YOUR fault

i am simply shoced how a company could possibly do "further investigation" to find out you are wrong, when you obviously could have done it before

Through 'em into the Rogue Pit, thats my vote

 

[maxd]

Ok, timing aside I'm seeing that this issue has been resolved. I'll confirm that with the OP.

 

[tofu23]

Saving $15 I got all my money back from this outfit.

If players chose to play at Betway they should factor in some fairly low expectations in particular on the score of integrity. The deceit contained within the CSR emails quoted in my opening post remain unaccounted for.

If there has been an apology from Betway I have well and truly missed it.

One final thing. When I got paid my MBs account was credited from an email address belonging to Gnuf Casino.

Either Betway borrowed some funds from Gnuf to pay or these outfits are very much one of the same.

 

[Roar]

Ground Hog day is with us (again).

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/25297/

One tech glitch is a mistake. Two tech glitches and I am getting suspicious.

But there's more.

When two disconnected customer service reps (Betway and Prime) parrot the same concocted story of just how the microgaming Clearpay system works then it suggests some Casinos seem to be exchanging more than just friendly emails about their respective business models.

And that makes me think of the so called "tech glitches" in a new light.

>

 

[pokeraddict]

Just an update about Betway. They reportedly are still confiscating winnings and bonuses:

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SBR has downgraded them twice this year and they are now a D.

 

[Roar]

Just an update about Betway. They reportedly are still confiscating winnings and bonuses:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

SBR has downgraded them twice this year and they are now a D.

What a wicked web we weave in our efforts to deceive.

Nice link pa. The gist from SBR -

Betway affiliated a web site that demonstrates a mathematical approach to securing value from a sports bet bonus. Predictably the players come and do the business with the sports bet bonus. Our Betway friends cry "foul" and "bonus abuse" confiscating cash winnings.

And look at that! Betway have since had another "technical glitch" to explain yet another cash confiscation episode. This "technical glitch" excuse is starting to get worn out pretty quick.

I hope Prime Casino aren't looking this way looking for more Betway inspiration.

>

 

[vinylweatherman]

What a wicked web we weave in our efforts to deceive.

Nice link pa. The gist from SBR -

Betway affiliated a web site that demonstrates a mathematical approach to securing value from a sports bet bonus. Predictably the players come and do the business with the sports bet bonus. Our Betway friends cry "foul" and "bonus abuse" confiscating cash winnings.

And look at that! Betway have since had another "technical glitch" to explain yet another cash confiscation episode. This "technical glitch" excuse is starting to get worn out pretty quick.

I hope Prime Casino aren't looking this way looking for more Betway inspiration.

>

I can't see Prime getting involved with that kind of thing. Does anyone have examples of where Prime Gaming have done the same with their non casino products?
Interesting to note that Betway is listed on that site as being owned by "Carmen Media", the owners of BelleRock casinos, who were involved a while back in some questionable confiscations of winnings from both what they deemed "bonus abusers" while at the same time concealing by omission the rule they fell foul of on their main pages (and even implying the opposite); and further, simply from players who used the "wrong currency", bonus or not.
Belle Rock were also locking accounts of many players after being hit by a few fraudsters, and there were quite a number of innocent players sacrificed on the altar of "protecting us from fraud", who had no way of fighting their case without going public and dragging third parties into the fray.

 

[Roar]

I can't see Prime getting involved with that kind of thing. Does anyone have examples of where Prime Gaming have done the same with their non casino products?
Interesting to note that Betway is listed on that site as being owned by "Carmen Media", the owners of BelleRock casinos, who were involved a while back in some questionable confiscations of winnings from both what they deemed "bonus abusers" while at the same time concealing by omission the rule they fell foul of on their main pages (and even implying the opposite); and further, simply from players who used the "wrong currency", bonus or not.
Belle Rock were also locking accounts of many players after being hit by a few fraudsters, and there were quite a number of innocent players sacrificed on the altar of "protecting us from fraud", who had no way of fighting their case without going public and dragging third parties into the fray.

VWM - I am not sure what you meant drawing the distinction between what Prime Casino might do compared to what Prime Gaming (non Casino) might get up to. Seems to me the Betway example demonstrates more than adequately an organisation treats customers the same way irrespective of what product is selected from the shelf. Interwetten Casino, Sports and Poker comes to mind. But I may have missed your point altogether so please set me straight.

Tofu remarked earlier, "One final thing. When I got paid my MBs account was credited from an email address belonging to Gnuf Casino."

So many connections! Belle Rock, Gnuf, and Prime it's hard to keep up. Just as well they all wear the same spots.

<

 

[Jufo]

Tofu remarked earlier, "One final thing. When I got paid my MBs account was credited from an email address belonging to Gnuf Casino."

So many connections! Belle Rock, Gnuf, and Prime it's hard to keep up. Just as well they all wear the same spots.

I am not sure if this has anything to do with the Betway issue but last time I played at Gnuf casino some time ago, they offered me reload bonus which was released after collecting certain amount of Gnuf points. I checked what the required wagering was, completed the wagering but the Gnuf points were not updated accordingly. I contacted customer support multiple times and they admitted that they had a "technical error" with the ratio of clearing Gnuf points. Even though they admitted the error, they did nothing to solve the issue and my bonus remained uncompleted and locked. Only after pursuing this matter with e-mails for three weeks, they finally manually released the bonus to be withdrawn. I think this was pretty pathetic for lousy 40 bucks.

 

[vinylweatherman]

VWM - I am not sure what you meant drawing the distinction between what Prime Casino might do compared to what Prime Gaming (non Casino) might get up to. Seems to me the Betway example demonstrates more than adequately an organisation treats customers the same way irrespective of what product is selected from the shelf. Interwetten Casino, Sports and Poker comes to mind. But I may have missed your point altogether so please set me straight.

Tofu remarked earlier, "One final thing. When I got paid my MBs account was credited from an email address belonging to Gnuf Casino."

So many connections! Belle Rock, Gnuf, and Prime it's hard to keep up. Just as well they all wear the same spots.

<

I was rather drawing the distinction between Prime Gaming and Betway. Now that Prime Casino have gained the top accolade here at Casinomeister, they have too much to lose by pulling stunts with players. Prime certainly learned that last year!!!!
Betway either have completely clueless staff through to management level, or they are deliberately hiding "inconvenient truths" in order to get away with errors on their part.

I expect the 50% Roulette weighting was an early error, but rather than admit that, they changed the terms and then tried to claim the PLAYER "needed glasses", and presented the amended terms of 10% weighting as though that had always been the case. When proof of the original terms at 50% weighting emerged, they had to backtrack, and attempt to put things right for the player. They even managed to screw that up, hence this thread goes on, long after a resolution has been dragged out of them.
Casinos & sportsbooks seem to forget that this industry, largely unregulated as it is, relies on trust. Lie, and then get caught, and that trust has gone, and needs to be rebuilt.
The result of this is that for a while to come, Betway will be treated with a degree of suspicion, because what they did once, they can do again.

What has not helped is employing CS staff that trot out canned replies to queries, all this does is make it look as though there is some kind of big conspiracy between a number of unrelated operators. With this bonus system, it seems some untrained CS staff are guessing, and giving out this guess as fact. What they say seems logical given that some software does indeed work like they stated, except the one they are supposed to be explaining does not, and as far as an experienced MG player is concerned, they are being fed a line of BS and being told it is fact, and that they are somehow "stupid" in insisting otherwise. When the "real" explanation emerges, a technical glitch, the player, lied to once before, believes CS/management have decided that the earlier brush-off didn't work, and now they are simply trying another.