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BetPhoenix Casino

K

Kbec980915

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
van buren ar
I have been playing at betphoenix casino. I deposited 40.00 to play in the slot tournaments. That is all I play. I was up to over 1300.00 and I tried to withdraw some of it. Then they tell me they credited me with a 20.00 free chip(I thought you couldn't play free roll tournaments on free chips). Anyway I didn't think I even dropped down to zero. Is there any way they could go into my account and plant a free chip in the middle of all of my winnings just to keep from paying me? From what I gathered you can't even enroll in slot tournaments with free chips anyway. Please help me if you can. Thanks.
 
Did they ever give you a free chip anywhere along the way after any of your deposits? You should be able to find something in the cashier that will be labled like "Manager Bonus or Promo Bonus", something like that. You need to watch where your balance is and how it gets there. You must have made a deposit inside of the last 30 days, when trying to win and cash in off of tournament winnings, as I understand it. You can take a $50 tournament win and hit a random jackpot, but if you have not deposited within the last month, you will not get paid. I'm sure this will all come down to following their rules.

Here are the tournament rules from their website:



FREE ROLL TOURNAMENT RULES


• Customers are welcome to play our Free Roll Tournaments; However winnings will be paid to depositing players only. If you have previously enjoyed any of our non-deposit free chip offers or Tournament Free Rolls, you will not be eligible for any successive non-deposit free offers until and unless you have made a real money deposit within 1 month.


• Customers that have never taken advantage of our No deposit free chips, and decide to enroll in our Free Roll Tournaments and win. You will be subject to a 20X playthrough on the winning amount and 1X max cashout.


• Depositing Clients that have enrolled in our Tournaments and have won will be subjected to a playthrough of 1X the amount and No Max cashout.


• All Winnings will be voided if Free Chips or cashback are used on our Slot Tournaments.
 
Is this Odd?

• Depositing Clients that have enrolled in our Tournaments and have won will be subjected to a playthrough of 1X the amount and No Max cashout.


What is up with that? If I win one of the tournaments for say 250 dollars, I have to spend 250 dollars in order to cash out my winnings? That is rediculous! Why buy into a tourny to have to risk what you have won?

Does this seem odd to anyone else?

LH
 
LHofsdal said:
• Depositing Clients that have enrolled in our Tournaments and have won will be subjected to a playthrough of 1X the amount and No Max cashout.


What is up with that? If I win one of the tournaments for say 250 dollars, I have to spend 250 dollars in order to cash out my winnings? That is rediculous! Why buy into a tourny to have to risk what you have won?

Does this seem odd to anyone else?

LH
Click to expand...

That I didn't see and I agree....very odd. A tournament is a tournament...if I "win" in a tournament I expect my "prize" with NO strings attached. I won $320 in a tourney at Rushmore and they sent me a wire transfer for free. I haven't deposited there in a very long time. That's the way it should be IMHO.:)
 
No, these are not free rolls. In another forum someone who did win in a tourny went to live chat and they told her the same thing, 1X playthrough.

Dean: Welcome to Bet Phoenix Casino, where the excitement never ends! How may I help you today?

do we have playthru on winning money from tournament?

Dean: 1X play no max cashout

we deposit cash to play on the tournies, we should not have any restriction to it

I just copied part of the chat, but there is a playthrough on the winnings of their tourny.

LH
 
LHofsdal said:
No, these are not free rolls. In another forum someone who did win in a tourny went to live chat and they told her the same thing, 1X playthrough.

Dean: Welcome to Bet Phoenix Casino, where the excitement never ends! How may I help you today?

do we have playthru on winning money from tournament?

Dean: 1X play no max cashout

we deposit cash to play on the tournies, we should not have any restriction to it

I just copied part of the chat, but there is a playthrough on the winnings of their tourny.

LH
Click to expand...

I stand corrected then. Having a playthrough on winnings where all players bought in to the tournament is just wrong, IMO. Free Rolls, I can understand. Winnings from pay tourney's should have no strings attached. But, what do you expect from casinos in today's environment? It's going to hell in a hand basket. :mad:

Simple solution; Play your pay tourneys elsewhere where you don't have to wager your wins.
 
I have $70 in winnings from free rolls sitting in the casino. Damned if I want to play them right now, since that would probably be when I would win and I haven't deposited in about six weeks. Been unemployed for a spell, so obviously food on the table is of greater concern than gambling. :eek: :(
 
Actually, the more I think about the tournament scenario, from a business point of view it makes sense. The tournaments actually become an additional profit center for the casino and from an owner / operator vantage point, they are probably grinning from ear to ear. The run off from the 1x playthrough rule, also helps fund the free tournaments. Something has to pay for those and the casinos that are not requiring any playthough on their pay tourneys most likely don't have free rolls, of if they do, not near as many. BetPhoenix provides 10-12 free rolls in a day sometimes, which is awsome for someone who wants some action but don't feel inclined to spend any money that day. So, from a business point of view, the way they are doing this makes a lot of sense. :thumbsup:
 
I can see if it was a free roll, but when you are depositing money to play in these tourny's there should be no restirctions. You paid your entry free that goes towards the pot, having this playthrough on your winnings just makes the casino rake in more money. If you won 250 dollars in a tourny, then had to wager it atleast once, and you lost it, the casino just made 250 dollars plus your entry fee.

LH
 
Is it up to each RTG operator how they run the tournaments? I did win one buy-in from Inetbet, and I entered another where my fee was returned, I guess they did not have enough players. But there was nothing to say minimum players to the best of my knowlege. MG has a minumum number of players. I've won a few cents on some of Inetbet's freerolls, and I don't think they had any WR. Mind you, I didn't make any cashouts, so not entirely sure.

BetPhoenix I've played a lot of freerolls and never placed. I've played a few buyins too. And quite a number of freechps, from contest wins or post-wagering bonuses. It would really tick me off to win a buy-in and find it void. Even a 1x WR is not good, there is a 10% rake, so you are only looking at a 90 percent return.

I know that you can't play tourneys while you have playthrough pending. I made one deposit at Betphoenix just to play tourneys.

And I cashed in comp points one time and played.

Did I have any chance of cashing out?

I know we all hate reading long terms and conditions, but it seems to be that there are few published terms and conditions for the RTG tourneys.
 
I never even asked for free chips. I don't like them. I made a deposit and was playing on my own 40.00. They approved the withdrawal that I made. Then a couple days later I received an email stating that I won all of that money on a free chip which was weird because they approved my withdrawal.
 
This is from Club World's T&C's.

14. Any winnings derived from a Slots Tournament where the buy-in was paid using a non-deposit bonus must be wagered fifty (50) times before a withdrawal is permitted.

And this is a conversation I just had with CS at CW regarding the question of whether there is a playthru of winnings from a buy-in tournament.

info: You are now chatting with 'Chris'
Chris: hello
Chris: how can I help?
me: Hi. Where can I find the T&Cs for tournaments?
Chris: we state all our terms on the website
me: Have a question about winnings - whether there is a playthru or not on money you win in a buy in tournament
Chris:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

me: I am looking and I don't see tournament play mentioned
Chris: the standard rules apply to all the games
Chris: each promotion has its own rules
me: That's what I am looking for. On the buy in tournaments, if you win, is there a playthru on your winnings?
Chris: no transactions are made in real time to your casino account
Chris: there is no playthru on tournaments
me: OK, so if I win $100 in a buy in tournament, then I can turn around and request a withdrawal?
Chris: yes
me: Thank you. Still haven't found it but thanks for clarifying it.
Chris: you welcome
Click to expand...

So it reads to me that if you use a free chip to play a tournament, then there is a playthru. But if you use your own money, then no playthru.

Again, this is Club World.
 
Last edited:
You can send Nicolas a Private Message here: Link Outdated / Removed

Regarding our Pitch-A-Bitch (aka 'PAB') service (thanks annie :thumbsup:) in a nutshell you file your Pitch-A-Bitch by completing the PAB form, I receive that, pre-screen it and then submit it to the casino people. The idea is that we're seeking a resolution to your complaint or a good reason why it cannot be resolved satisfactorily. The service is free of charge and is available to all Casinomeister members in good standing.

If you decide you do want to use the Pitch-A-Bitch service you are STRONGLY advised to read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ in full.

Why? Because you have responsibilities in the PAB process too, both in preparing your PAB and while the PAB is underway. A successful PAB process depends on you and your cooperation with our procedures.

You can see more about past PABs on our PAB Archives page.

Regards,
Max Drayman, Pitch-A-Bitch Manager
 
i think it ssucks that u have to play thriugh tourney wins and I see no logic in it.
All player has added some bonus free money, an thats what u win. Why should I need to play them trough, even if it is just 1 time?

Is this a rule at all RTG´s or just this one`?
 
Well, if you wanna be 100% sure, that something will happen and action taken, then I strongly suggest you too file a PAB :thumbsup:
 
I guess that would depend on when you contacted Nicolas. If it's been a week and nothing, then I would probably PAB. If it's only been a couple of days, excluding the weekend, then I might wait.

Kinda depends on how PO'd you are by now. :D

Just make sure that if you are going to PAB, read the instructions and don't post anymore about it here. That's one of the rules.
 
Nicolas is a pretty good rep, my decision to play at BetPhoenix was largely influenced by his involvement there. I know he takes weekends off, so I would at least wait until Monday to see if he gets back to you. That doesn't mean he can solve your problem the first day, and you will need to give him your account details if you haven't already. You first posted here on Saturday, so I doubt he's aware of the thread yet.

Mind you, wouldn't hurt to read through the PAB stuff in the meantime.
 
You should give Nicolas a few days to get back to you. If you haven't and you go ahead and file the PAB I'll just have to put it "on hold" while we give him some time to respond.
 
LHofsdal said:
• Depositing Clients that have enrolled in our Tournaments and have won will be subjected to a playthrough of 1X the amount and No Max cashout.


What is up with that? If I win one of the tournaments for say 250 dollars, I have to spend 250 dollars in order to cash out my winnings? That is rediculous! Why buy into a tourny to have to risk what you have won?

Does this seem odd to anyone else?

LH
Click to expand...

not that i want to justify them putting a wagering requirement on the winnings but if they have a payout of say 95% you would still have $237.5 left out of those $250 after meeting the wagering requirement.
 
In a perfect world!

williamborg said:
not that i want to justify them putting a wagering requirement on the winnings but if they have a payout of say 95% you would still have $237.5 left out of those $250 after meeting the wagering requirement.
Click to expand...


In a perfect world YES but we are talking RTG could be gone in 250 spins at $1:cool:

Of course 1 in 20 might make the wagering requirements and then some, but I still don't think it justifies any WR especially on buy in tournaments!
 
Kbec980915 said:
I have been playing at betphoenix casino. I deposited 40.00 to play in the slot tournaments. That is all I play. I was up to over 1300.00 and I tried to withdraw some of it. Then they tell me they credited me with a 20.00 free chip(I thought you couldn't play free roll tournaments on free chips). Anyway I didn't think I even dropped down to zero. Is there any way they could go into my account and plant a free chip in the middle of all of my winnings just to keep from paying me? From what I gathered you can't even enroll in slot tournaments with free chips anyway. Please help me if you can. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I'm sorry for your frustration, but you used a free chip on our tournaments, and as has been pointed out, this is something we do not allow. All your winnings derive from a free chip that was given to you. I have PM'ed you the info to find the transaction in your account history. Your account was standing at $0.01 when we applied the free chip.

Again, I'm sorry for your frustration.

Regarding our 1x roll over on tournament winnings, this is due the fact that many of our tournaments are negative value for the casino, we do them in good part as a marketing vehicle for the entertainment of our players. To avoid abuse, we request a low 1x play through. So far the response we have received from the way we do our tournaments has been favorable. The suggestions on this board will be used, together with direct feedback from our players who contact us, to constantly make sure we improve and provide an ever better service.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager
 
Nicolas,

For the edification of all of us, please explain what constitutes a free chip. I know it sounds like a simple question, but here is where I'm coming from; Let's say a player signs up at the casino thru an affiliate site. There is a no deposit bonus. Obviously that is a free chip. Where the water may get muddy is when people don't understand that when you throw them a bone (comped free chip) this counts just the same. A free chip is a free chip, to my understanding, no matter how it comes about. Correct? The OP may not have completely understood this. Or.....won the money from a tournament, perhaps, having not deposited?

I know I keep having money sitting in my account because I play the heck out of the tournaments. Since it's been awhile since I deposited, I know I can't cashout, so I just keep buying more tournaments. Having no job at present will do that to ya. ;) ( said I'd come over and work for you guys) When I want to "get real" again, I know I'll need to deposit before I can play and withdraw any of the winnings from the tournaments, as I understand it. Am I right?
 
takethemoney said:
Nicolas,

For the edification of all of us, please explain what constitutes a free chip. I know it sounds like a simple question, but here is where I'm coming from; Let's say a player signs up at the casino thru an affiliate site. There is a no deposit bonus. Obviously that is a free chip. Where the water may get muddy is when people don't understand that when you throw them a bone (comped free chip) this counts just the same. A free chip is a free chip, to my understanding, no matter how it comes about. Correct? The OP may not have completely understood this. Or.....won the money from a tournament, perhaps, having not deposited?

I know I keep having money sitting in my account because I play the heck out of the tournaments. Since it's been awhile since I deposited, I know I can't cashout, so I just keep buying more tournaments. Having no job at present will do that to ya. ;) ( said I'd come over and work for you guys) When I want to "get real" again, I know I'll need to deposit before I can play and withdraw any of the winnings from the tournaments, as I understand it. Am I right?
Click to expand...

The idea of the casino is to not allow more than 1 free money credit between deposits. There are certain free chips/contest/situation where this rule doesn't apply. But generally, unless it says otherwise, this is the case.

The money in question was a free, no deposit credit we gave to the player after the player reached $0.01 and was no longer playing for a few days.

Depending on various conditions, we may place free money in an account once it has $0.01 or less. Players are welcome to opt out of this and we will respect that. Player satisfaction is our priority.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager
 
There are a couple of other kind of "free chips" that Bet Phoenix offers from time to time (got an email offer for one today), and that is the post-wagering compensation on a busted out deposit. Do they count the same way as other free chips? Also, what about your comp points? I did cashout mine at one point and played some buy-in tourneys. I didn't place, but would I have been eligible to win?

Also, regarding the requirement to have money in your account when you win? Some of the tournaments run for days, I might have had money when I played. Does this money need to be withdrawable as well, i.e playthrough is cleared.

Also, there are a few higher stakes tournaments, I've considered making a deposit to play one or two of them. Do I need to make sure I leave money in my account until the tourament is ended, and do these buy-ins have that 1x WR as well? As said previously, there is already a 10% rake.

It's beginning to be almost as complicated as rules at Bingo Sites.
 
Let me start off by saying that I am really enjoying the tournaments at BP. I do find some of the rules attached to it quite confusing.

Please explain what would happen (i.e. what kind of playthrough would be attached) in the following situations:

#1:
Deposit $100
Lose on tourneys until down to $10
Win on a tourney to bring balance back up to $100
Want to Withdraw $100

#2:
Same as #1, except only want to withdraw $50

#3:
Deposit $100
Win on tourneys up to $1000
Lose on tourneys down to $100
Win on tourneys up to $1000
Lose on tourneys down to $100
Win on tourneys up to $1000
Want to withdraw $1000

#4:
Deposit $100
Win on tourneys up to $1000
Lose on regular casino down to $100
Win on tourneys up to $1000
Want to withdraw $1000

#5:
Deposit $100
Play regular casino, balance up to $500
Win on tourneys up to $600
Want to withdraw $600

#6:
Deposit $1000
Play regular casino, balance down to $100
Win on tourneys, balance up to $105
Want to Withdraw $105

#7:
Deposit $200
Lose on tourneys down to $100
Win $1 on a tourney (up to $101)
Want to withdraw $101

Needless to say, trying to appropriately incorporate all of these situations into terms and conditions would seem like a nightmare to me, and that's not even including what might happen with bonus amounts.

I'd like to say that I don't blame BP for this. RTG clearly didn't think through all of the scenarios that might happen with tournaments and aren't providing appropriate code to handle them in a way casinos want them to be.
 
Nicolas...

Ouch, I was just looking through my junk mail and saw one dated from yesterday morning (13th) saying that a free bonus of $25 was placed in my account. I have been keeping close track of my account and...

1. I'm sure my account balance wasn't at 0 or 0.01 at the time the bonus was supposedly added (you said that's when bonuses are occasionally added)

2. I am sure that the bonus wasn't actually added to my account. There is no record of it in my account history, and I remember logging in last night (the 13th) and having $2.xx in my account, which was credited the previous night(12th) by placing in a tournament, the entry to which was purchased based in a non-bonus deposit. The night of the 13th I played some freeroll and then low value tournaments before depositing again so I could play some larger value tournaments. Looking back at my account history it confirms all of this and makes me doubly sure that I am remembering correctly.

3. I won about $100 last night and requested to withdraw it. I sincerely hope that this doesn't effect my ability to withdraw, as I went out of my way to keep track of my account and not to play tournaments with any bonuses.

Sorry if I'm jumping the gun when my withdrawal hasn't actually been denied, this thread just has me a bit paranoid. Hopefully this is just a mix up.

I have pm'ed you my account name so you can further look into this.
 
winnington said:
Nicolas...

Ouch, I was just looking through my junk mail and saw one dated from yesterday morning (13th) saying that a free bonus of $25 was placed in my account.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why you would receive such an email; as you have confirmed yourself, no bonus was added to your account.

winnington said:
1. I'm sure my account balance wasn't at 0 or 0.01 at the time the bonus was supposedly added (you said that's when bonuses are occasionally added)
Click to expand...

No bonus was added, your account was way above $0.01

winnington said:
2. I am sure that the bonus wasn't actually added to my account. There is no record of it in my account history, and I remember logging in last night (the 13th) and having $2.xx in my account, which was credited the previous night(12th) by placing in a tournament, the entry to which was purchased based in a non-bonus deposit. The night of the 13th I played some freeroll and then low value tournaments before depositing again so I could play some larger value tournaments. Looking back at my account history it confirms all of this and makes me doubly sure that I am remembering correctly.

3. I won about $100 last night and requested to withdraw it. I sincerely hope that this doesn't effect my ability to withdraw, as I went out of my way to keep track of my account and not to play tournaments with any bonuses.
Click to expand...

You won off a deposit; so it is simple, you get paid.

winnington said:
Sorry if I'm jumping the gun when my withdrawal hasn't actually been denied, this thread just has me a bit paranoid. Hopefully this is just a mix up.

I have pm'ed you my account name so you can further look into this.
Click to expand...

It is indeed a mix up. No need to be be worried though. Our rules are pretty clear on this; you can't play tournaments with a free chip. The OP of this thread did, therefore the cashout of the OP was turned down. The OP had a balance of $0.01 when we applied the free chip. You on the other hand won off a deposit. You will be paid. If you have a balance, no free chip will be applied.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager

P.S. I'll get the info for the many different scenarios questioned in this thread. I don't have it at hand, but I'll be sure to get it and find time to post it.
 
Speaking of tournaments, I had something kind of a bummer happen today. I spent $8 on a tournament and my ISP or modem disconnected me from the internet in mid play. It takes about 5 minutes to reset my modem and reboot my router. By that time I completely lost out on completing the tournament. :confused:

I know it's not BetPhoenix's fault, but I contacted Dean because this had never happened to me before, but I got the response I figured, which is them's the breaks. So $8 wasted.
 
And, Nicolas....you need to clean your private message cache. It's full. Nobody can send you messages while it is in this poor state of maintenance. :thumbsup:

I'm kidding about part of it, but it is full. :D
 
Nicolas got back to me and he said that I received the chip and then I won all of the money off of it but I thought that you couldn't play tournaments on free chips. Should I still post a PAB?
 
Kbec980915 said:
Nicolas got back to me and he said that I received the chip and then I won all of the money off of it but I thought that you couldn't play tournaments on free chips. Should I still post a PAB?
Click to expand...

I could be wrong on this, but I can imagine this scenario:

I believe that initially, the tournaments wouldn't allow you to play but if you went for a spin on the slots and generated some winnings, you might then be able to participate in the tourneys. I don't think the software is configured to block you from playing tournaments with winnings from other games, but still could be against the rules. When in doubt always best to ask.
 
I don't have access to your account, what tourneys you won and when you received the free chip. But you have nothing to lose by filing a PAB.

If you do, please don't post on the boards when the PAB is being resolved. That is one of the terms.

The other night I took a bonus, and in the process of reading terms, I found a page relating the the tournaments. Apparently you can not play them with comp points either, a fact I did not realize. I bought into a few low-roll tourneys with some comps I cashed out, but did not win anything. I don't know when this page was put up, I don't think it was there when tournaments first began, but these things can be checked.

Don't worry Maxd and Nicolas, I won't be filing a PAB for my $1 something in comps, lol.
 
Jasminebed said:
Don't worry Maxd and Nicolas, I won't be filing a PAB for my $1 something in comps, lol.
Click to expand...

:lolup: Oh, too bad! I was sooooo looking forward to that. (not!) ;)
 
Errr, new rule! No PAB for an issue worth $1 or less. Ha ha! Now I'm safe. :D
 
Kbec980915 said:
I only deposited to play in the slot tournaments. I never even went to the actual slot games. Do you think I have a case?
Click to expand...

Maybe, the rules say nothing about using WINNINGS to play a tournement, only that you cannot use the free chip to pay entry fees. What you win is YOUR money, you would be able to WITHDRAW that money once WR have been met on the free chip, so there is no reason for a player to think there are ANY restrictions on what this won money can be used for.

Technically, this can be avoided by first withdrawing the winnings, and immediately redepositing from your deposit method, and using this money to fund tournament entries. The terms should make this CLEAR, since this is NOT something many players will assume.

There may be other players who have done this, but have not won anything in the tournaments, so have not come across this before.

Since the tournaments are a software feature, the software should itself enforce the rules PROPERLY, so that not only are players protected, but the TOURNAMENTS are protected from after the fact disqualifications.

In this case, a player won a big prize, but got disqualified from receiving that prize, BUT other players PAID IN to this tournament, in the expectation that these payments were being used to fund the prizes, but in this case it seems the casino pocketed the money from this disqualification.

Normally where someone is disqualified from an event, they are removed from the scoreboard, and those below move up a place, and receive the higher prize.

Did this happen in THIS tournament, or did the casino indeed simply pocket the prize they confiscated?
 

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