Attitude To Reverse Withdrawal (2012)

[iataz]

Most BetonSoft casinos you can't do a partial reversal if you do it starts your 48 hr wait all over again

 

[BustedFlush]

Most BetonSoft casinos you can't do a partial reversal if you do it starts your 48 hr wait all over again

That's not nice.

 

[BBKPoker]

I voted it was fine as long as the period is less than 24 hours. In general, I just don't play at casinos that take more than 2-3 business days to pay out, unless their games are amazing, or their promotions are awesome so having any kind of long reversal period pretty much means I'm not playing with you. 24 hours seems fine/reasonable. I think the ideal is for a casino to default to 24 hours, but be happy to remove the reversal period permanently for you if you request them to do so. I suppose flushing is sort of a fair version of that, but I'm sure not even giving yourself the temptation to gamble back in the first place would be the ideal. I've personally rarely or never reversed a withdrawal (I can't remember any, but maybe there was one) but I've certainly felt tempted to before!

 

[Simmo!]

Just asking a casino why they won't flush:

...one of the reasons that we have the 'reverse state' period for 48 hours is due to making it convenient for our players to access the withdrawal amount when they feel bored and really want to play. The majority of our players get frustrated when this is not available for them, as it is their withdrawal amount and they should be given the opportunity to use the funds as they see fit.

As much as we would love to please all our players in this regard, we do understand that not all players will feel the same. We do however need to cater for the majority vote.

I'll give this poll a couple more days as a sticky to see if we can get 100 votes - if you haven't voiced an opinion please do so, then I'll let it slide and just drag it up as a reference when I'm feeling grumpy LOL.

 

[Surasanji]

Just asking a casino why they won't flush:

...one of the reasons that we have the 'reverse state' period for 48 hours is due to making it convenient for our players to access the withdrawal amount when they feel bored and really want to play. The majority of our players get frustrated when this is not available for them, as it is their withdrawal amount and they should be given the opportunity to use the funds as they see fit.

As much as we would love to please all our players in this regard, we do understand that not all players will feel the same. We do however need to cater for the majority vote.

I'll give this poll a couple more days as a sticky to see if we can get 100 votes - if you haven't voiced an opinion please do so, then I'll let it slide and just drag it up as a reference when I'm feeling grumpy LOL.

Wouldn't a manual flush button somewhere in the casino achieve just that aim?

 

[max1mike]

Just asking a casino why they won't flush:


...one of the reasons that we have the 'reverse state' period for 48 hours is due to making it convenient for our players to access the withdrawal amount when they feel bored and really want to play. The majority of our players get frustrated when this is not available for them, as it is their withdrawal amount and they should be given the opportunity to use the funds as they see fit.

As much as we would love to please all our players in this regard, we do understand that not all players will feel the same. We do however need to cater for the majority vote.

what a steaming pile of poop that is. how about..when i hit the cashout button, you pay me instantly, and if I,"feel bored and really want to play" I just make a deposit with the cash you just paid me!!!

 

[chayton]

I said "if the reverse is 24 hours' although if you'd talked to me yesterday (right after reversing a WD and losing it) my answer would have been different.

But the thing is, it wasn't the casino who made me reverse, it was my own stupid choice. Although when a casino says there's a 24 hour reverse period and then they leave your withdrawal sitting there reversible all weekend, that's kind of sucky IMO. But it was my own doing, so whatever. Of course I prefer playing where they offer flushing on request, but not very many places I play offer that anymore.

 

[Tirilej]

@ Simmo I suppose that was from one of Jackpot Capital casinos. They gave me that answer too, but when I asked another time it was more because the players recycle the money, and it was expensive for the casino.
I think that's the main reason. That way they win twice on the same money because so many are probably reversing at least a part of their cashout.

What I believe is that there isn't one single player that wants to reverse. We are cashing out because we won and want the money. If there was a flushbutton or instant withdrawals everyone would use it.
Why wouldn't we?

 

[rainmaker]

.

I think any obligatory pending time is based on ignorance. Those casinos who endorse such practice simply don`t get it. Probably also why the most successful casinos are those who pays out quickly with no obligatory pending period at all.

Recurring customers that are loyal over time, who occasionally manage to cash out but mostly will lose are the most profitable customers for a casino. Casinos and companies in general must create loyalty.

And loyalty is not created if the casino constantly will do whatever they can to delay or prevent withdrawals by practicing a long obligatory pending time. It may be profitable for the casino in the short term to do whatever they can to prevent withdrawals, but it certainly is not profitable over time.

If the casino want loyal and profitable customers, then they actually should encourage customers to occasionally cash out. Simply because it is good for business.

The faster the casino pays out, the faster the customer most likely will re-deposit.

I personally will never use a casino that practice any obligatory pending time.

 

[skiny]

A 48 hour reversal period..... Seriously?

Head down to the B&M casinos. Pick any one of them in any country. Start banging away at the slots and hopefully have a decent little run.

Now you're up $200, $2k, $20k.... whatever a decent little run is. Ok, now it's time to call it quits.... Columbo is on in an hour and it's a 45 minute drive home.

You get as far as the casino door and the manager says "Way to go on your win. I see you're leaving. Are you sure you want to take all that with you though? Maybe I should just hold on to that for a couple of days.... Just in case you want to come back and try again."

And you say "No, thanks. I'd like to just take my money now."

And the manager says "No, you REALLY need to leave that money here for a couple of days."

And you say "I really don't want to gamble with it anymore. I want to use it to buy a square TV so I can watch Columbo properly."

And the manager says "Well, I'm sorry. Not taking your money when you leave IS policy. You can carry it around the casino if you like but if you want to leave you have to let it sit here for a couple of days."



If you want to leave your money sitting at the casino for a couple of days AFTER you decide you'd like to make your withdrawal, be my guest. I'll play where they let you take your money when you leave.

 

[footdr]

If they approve my withdrawal with 48 hours and process the payment on the day it is approved, I don't care if they flush or not. Some casinos may flush it but take days or weeks after it approved to actually process it or pay you. I wouldn't reverse a withdrawal if I know they will likely approve and process it within 48 hours. The only time I may reverse a withdrawal is if I made it on a friday at Liberty Slots, where I can reverse say $100.00 form a pending withdrawal because I feel like gambling and don't have the funds to deposit and play somewhere else.

I have done this several times and ended up with winning even more.
Just my experience and the way I think about it.

 

[Simmo!]

...loyalty is not created if the casino constantly will do whatever they can to delay or prevent withdrawals...

Indeed. Loyalty is created in any market by meeting - or exceeding - a customer's expectations. If the "majority" prefer to have their money held for 2 days after withdrawing in an accessible state, then let the "majority" have that. But if the "minority" would prefer not to have their wad sitting their waving at them, then I feel they should respect that too.

Sending an email saying the customers want it (which I've had several times before) just assumes I am a bit stupid but there you go. Like I'm gonna sit there and go "Oh right. It must be me then. Sorry, I'll change my outlook totally and stop being so unreasonable in future". You don't expect them to admit they do it wrong after all and it's no great shakes: there is so much choice out there now, I just closed the account. To be fair I was only testing them but still, if that's how they treat customers then it doesn't bode well (and in case they were wondering, no they won't be appearing on my websites LOL).

The point about saving money on processing has to be a consideration for a casino - after all, it is a business. Some businesses will choose to - may even need to - put financial considerations ahead of the customer but I can't help but feel it's a false economy based on a short-term outlook. A casino who argues they make more money with longer reverse times will ultimately not be attractive to a lot of players.

Judging from the poll so far, it seems that having a reverse time and offering a flush option strikes a happy medium, although I've still come across casinos that take 12 hours to respond to a flush request LOL, which kind of makes it a pointless service. Personally I like my Virgins(!), Bet365's and 32Reds where when I cash out, that's it - it's done.

Like Skiny says: that's what a real casino should do.


@Tirilej. It wasn't Jackpot Capital or an RTG - it was an MG.

 

[rainmaker]

Sending an email saying the customers want it (which I've had several times before)

Yes, casinos today with 24H or 48H pending time will often come up with a "but our customers want it"-explanation. That is of course only bullshit. The pending time itself is bad, the explanations are just stupid.

Players who cancel and lose a pending withdrawal will feel like shit. And I really can not understand why in the world a company will do whatever they can to make their customers feel like shit. As I said, a practice like this is really based on ignorance and it is not profitable in the long run.

 

[footdr]

I unstall the casino after I make the withdrawal most of the time. I take a screen shot of the pending withdrawal before doing so. Perhaps this would be helpful to players who are tempted to reverse their withdrawal. If you make a withdrawal prior to the weekend and don't have money to deposit at another casino; then don't cashout all of your winnings, Lease yourself $50-$100 to play with over the weekend.(I do this sometimes when I am broke).

 

[Simmo!]

Be nice to get 4 more votes to round it up to the hundred but I'm going to let this one slide now. I'll close the poll at 100 votes or in 24hrs, whatever comes soonest

 

[conker]

It's been a very interesting poll, which has raised a lot of opinion from members. I wonder how much attention casinos pay to this as it is pretty clear that it is hugely important to genuine players.

 

[ksech]

I voted no (for what it's worth since I haven't gambled online in over a year and I live in the US) and since you stated it's about attitudes

If I remember correctly...most (some?) of the RTG casinos, if you reverse even part of your withdrawal, it starts the withdrawal process all over again. So, even if you are "tempted" to play with a small portion of your winnings, you are then 'penalized' and have to wait an additional 24/48 hrs to be processed if the casino doesn't flush.

When I played Rivals, I don't ever recall being able to reverse a withdrawal. Slotocash usually had the payout done so fast you didn't have a chance to reverse.

And MGs (Intertops/Royal Joker and the few others before the UIGEA) were really quick paying out to NeTeller so there wasn't any need to reverse.

Isn't there a group though which won't let you make a new/fresh deposit if you have a pending withdrawal? They encourage you to reverse? (I can't remember which group it is right now, will have to look back through some old threads)

 

[Simmo!]

It's been a very interesting poll, which has raised a lot of opinion from members. I wonder how much attention casinos pay to this as it is pretty clear that it is hugely important to genuine players.

I think most casinos consider it's implications and I don't believe any casino is silly enough to think the majority their players want it, even if they say that.

Hopefully a poll like this makes the figures more available to those who don't know (after all, they never ask). I think if nothing else, based on a moderately sized sample of mostly experienced players, it demonstrates that nearly 60% of them won't stay loyal to a casino who impose a 24hr or greater mandatory reverse time. But stats can be read in many ways: one might argue that 35% of players are more than happy to play with a reverse pending time.

The decision for a casino has to be whether the financial savings of a reverse time outweigh the loss made from players who will move somewhere else. Al this poll can do is help in that decision-making process.

Additionally, from my perspective, when I come across a casino that won't show flexibility on a reverse time or with flushing, I immediately and subconsciously see them as an adversary. I am still trying to work out how that can be good for business LOL. But I appreciate different players see it different ways.

 

[Simmo!]

Last bump to try and get to the 100 votes

 

[oldtrvlagt]

In a perfect world, if you deposit in 5 seconds you should be able to withdraw in 5 seconds and just like at a B & M casino when you hit the cashout button you have a ticket in your hand (at least at an online casino there should be no "choice" to reverse it) so I voted no.

It is way to easy to reverse a withdrawal at RTG casinos. Online gambling is a different "animal" so to speak. There are times when the dollar figure showing doesn't seem real....there are too many factors involved when you are sitting at home, comfy, bored, etc. and managing money at an online casino demands self control.

I say this from experience....last summer I won a Rushmore tourney for $1500. I submitted the withdrawal and it was in limbo for weeks. In the meantime I won another tourney (can't remember the exact amount) but played it until at one time I had three more withdrawals pending for $1000 each. With the mind set that I wasn't going to receive the money or would have to wait months I played it all back. That was my own lack of self discipline and I was annoyed but I had never deposited. If I had deposited I may have looked at it differently. We'll never know because I would never deposit at Rushmore.

All I'm saying, IMHO, is that if it is cash in it should be cash out just as quickly.

 

[patryc]

They should do reverse deposit! I think it an excuse to hold onto your money a bit longer. I try to avoid Casinos like this if possible BUT better wait 4 days than get nothing from the no-pay Casinos.

 

[Simmo!]

I've closed the poll now. For the record, one vote was removed on request so the figures and percentages now paint an accurate picture. Thanks for taking part those who did.

Cheers,

Simmo!

 

[maphesto]

Thanks for this Simmo!

Do you think this result can be sent to casino reps on the forum?

 

[Simmo!]

Thanks for this Simmo!

Do you think this result can be sent to casino reps on the forum?

I think several will have seen it and to be honest, although I woud like it to have an impact I think the best one can hope for is that it's been noted. The good news is that nowadays, the choice for players is big enough (putting the US aside, but that will follow) that it's pretty easy to find casinos who flush or don't have the reverse thing.

Plus, while there are players who cave in to big "free money" incentives, the reverse times will always continue to exist at a lot of places.

 

[mrmark21]

Hi everyone,

I'm wondering about 32 Red, I've made a little profit there, and want to know what can be done about actually keeping it this time lol most of the time i seem to just end up getting bored, reversing the withdrawal, and start playing higher bets only to loose it all. There is nothing fun about being up a good $700 and playing $1.00 bets. I play for fun, so when I'm up it's always nice to keep the money for future deposits.

Seems 32 Red can't remove the reverse withdrawal option? Should i just contact customer support when i don't want the option to reverse withdrawal? also what does it mean to flush?